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Breaking 90 - the "easiest" way?

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  • golfsidekickgolfsidekick Spam Posts: 8
    Yeah bois! Check out the channel - it might change your life. Or not, I mean some people hate lower scores if it means giving up the army driver. Left right left right!



    A lot of people poo poo ideas but the emails and response I have received from a video I made of myself when I was swinging the worst of my life, yeah baby changing lives, dropping handicaps.



    Matt
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  • Hilts1969Hilts1969 Members Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    After watching some very good seniors play great golf I’m not ready to play safe golf to get my handicap down a couple of numbers. There is no satisfaction in avoiding clubs you can’t hit very well. A conservative poor golfer is still a poor golfer. Like people who play off short tees you’re only cheating yourself.
  • golfsidekickgolfsidekick Spam Posts: 8
    After rereading this thread, Ziggy, you've misrepresented my video you're referring to in a grossly dishonest way.

    How do you expect any meaningful discussion if you don't link to the video nor state what's in it even remotely accurately?



    Anyway, it seems as though you actually started doing what the video suggests in the end. That's pretty funny.



    There are a few people on this thread who actually "got it" who watched the video and realized it's a round of golf put forward as a possible way to break a barrier. Is it a copy paste approach? No, take what you will out of it and try apply something to your game - that's what hundreds of guys have done and email me regularly about their sub 90 scores, one guy even breaking 90 with an 80 flat.



    But unfortunately when you say I suggest splitting a par 4 in two and hitting the same club twice, or divide par 5's into three shots of the same club, or hit only a 6 iron off the tee, abandoning hitting an 8 iron into the green and splitting that into two? C'mon man, either you're not too sharp or just acting obtuse.



    Clearly if you hit a 6 iron 205 and a 3 iron 240, you need to go work on your short game especially with 40 putts per round. Still really confused as to why you would purposefully misrepresent the video? Triggered?



    I always find it funny when the macho boys poo poo the idea of hitting an iron or hybrid off every tee as if your game stagnates. I used the same kind of system with my brother in law who had never finished a full round of golf with a score actually carded on every hole. He would pick up and take a triple bogey on at least 7 holes a round.



    He didn't do any practice and never hits the range and on the 3rd attempt, we got him from 121 down to 105 and then 98. Say what you will about strategy not being of importance for high handicappers. Say what you like about your progress stalling with just hitting irons and hybrids off the tee. But once you can groove 4 or 5 clubs like a mother and start thinking like a strategist and not a hit n hoper, you'll have 80% of the weaponry needed to even break 80. Once you break 100, 90, 80 one time, you'll keep doing it. But why hinder yourself even breaking the score barrier because some guy is laughing at you on a forum for hitting shorter clubs that you can actually control and have fun with?



    Yeah, fear of judgement. What a waste of energy on the golf course and a source of a lot of wasted shots too.



    The bravado of the driver driver driver crew is not actually helpful advice to a high handicapper if the guy can't hit the thing. Would you rather be hitting your 2nd shot from left rough after a 150 yard shot or your 3rd still standing on the tee with a driver in your hand, wondering where it's gonna go next?



    That's where guys are losing shots when trying to break 100 and 90. That, and poor chipping by taking on shots only a tour pro should be attempting. So a guy persists with learning to hit a driver while on the course. He just keeps dropping 5,6, 10 shots from Oscar Bravos, water hazards and gets increasingly frustrated to the point he doesn't want to go out because golf becomes a game of golf-ball-hide-n-seek. Now take this guy, get him to hit his favorite longest club in the bag and he has a 2nd shot, and hits one on the green in three where he would normally be hitting 3 from the tee....yeah tell him he isn't progressing AND HAVING SOME FUN.



    Too many people are looking at these things in black and white. You don't cut out the bad clubs never to reintroduce them. You break your barrier, you practice the bad clubs at the range, maybe with a pro, you introduce them when they're feeling good, you groove those 4 or 5 favorite clubs on the course by hitting them over and over and over. Then when you introduce the 3 wood, the driver, whatever it is you've been working on, BAM you smash another 5 shots off your score. It's a process and if you succumb to the **** brain of instant gratification, you're doomed.



    These ideas are part of an overall journey, not isolated ways of doing something the same way forever. And anyone who thinks hitting shorter shots slows the game down needs their head read. Nothing slows the game down like looking for balls in the hazards, re-teeing after an Oscar Bravo and finding the right place to drop your ball as our high handicapper slowly loses his will to live.



    Anyone who is shooting 90-99 regularly, I could get them under 90 in no more than 5 rounds. And this year, Lord willing, if the channel grows big enough, I will fly someone out to Thailand to play with me for a week (fully paid for by me) to do just that.



    On top of that, I am rebuilding my bag from scratch as an experiment. I recently played a round with only a 6 iron and putter. I shot just over 80. Next round I'll be adding a 53° in a tournament on Saturday - let's see if we can win a prize. Updates will be on the channel.



    Going once step further, I am going to, by the end of this year, play a round left handed to be able to relate to a total beginner and take myself from never having hit a ball left handed, to playing a full round to breaking 100. I believe in all golfers there is a score between 3 and 20 shots better, attainable just by thinking better, focusing on your strengths, removing trouble clubs and practicing even just a tiny bit.



    I love mid and high handicappers and I feel their pain after playing with them for the better part of my 20 years on a golf course. I'm back to being a 5 handicapper after returning to golf last May after four years of not playing but I'll never forget my boys the 16+ handicappers and hope to get even more content out there to get you playas shooting the scores of your lives.
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  • golfsidekickgolfsidekick Spam Posts: 8
    edited Jul 23, 2018 #95
    .
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Driver: Callaway Epic Sub Zero +1° D
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    Wedges: MIzuno GW & 58°
    Putter: Cleveland Classics V 304
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  • golfsidekickgolfsidekick Spam Posts: 8
    om18v wrote:


    Today I had a perfect example of how I have been changing the way I manage the course. Hole 18 par 4, 365 yards to the center where the pin is. After duffing my tee shot 110 yards I have 255 to go. Experience tells me I cannot make it to the green with my next shot so it will be two shots no matter what. I could hit a 4 iron around 180 and and have 75 yards to go. 75 yards is not one of my best shots, although with taking lessons and practice I am working on it. Based on my know ability, two 9 iron shots at 130 each will get me to the back of the green for a chance at par but most likely two putt for bogey. So I split the 255 with the nine and two putt and card the bogey.



    Before watching the videos that I am talking about, I would have went with the 4 iron/180 yard or even worse attempted 3 wood off the deck for a very hopeful 190+. Where would that have got me? It is still two shots after the duffed tee shot. Seems to me the best chance is to break it in two even shots with the same club that I have confidence in. That is how the breaking 90 vid has given me a new way to approach the course. Please explain how this is wrong. There has to be some high cappers on this forum that thinking about managing the course in a different way could be beneficial. That is what I got out of the videos I believe the original post is about.




    Sir, you are the man! I would like to express my love for you openly in this open forum.
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  • QEightQEight FinlandMembers Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    After rereading this thread, Ziggy, you've misrepresented my video you're referring to in a grossly dishonest way.

    How do you expect any meaningful discussion if you don't link to the video nor state what's in it even remotely accurately?

    ...

    Too many people are looking at these things in black and white.

    ...




    Did OP actually mention which video he was referring to? Quite a long discussion in this thread and you decided to bash OP who was questioning the validity of the idea. Someone really sees this in black and white.
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Matt,



    You don't need to take my posts as offensive or an attack against you. I'm a subscriber to your channel and I do enjoy your content. I'll gladly post your original video in my original post if you'd like. I was inviting this forum to an open debate on your advice and yes, I had some criticism of it because it relies on high cappers to have not just an okay short game, but a pretty good one b/c theoretically they'd almost never be able to 3 putt since a majority of their 3rd shots would be little chips and pitches. According to statistics, 20+ cappers 3putt almost 25% of the time. Now is that because they aren't using your approach? Maybe.



    Since you posted these videos I have adopted your strategy and it does work. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say though... That's just my opinion. On the whole, I do 100% agree with you that less skilled golfers could benefit from hitting shorter clubs off the tee. I personally rarely take driver out of the bag and most of the time that's beneficial to me.
    WITB
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  • Irishgolfer88Irishgolfer88 Members Posts: 96
    I have found in my experience the key to breaking 90 is to keep the ball in play off the tee and be cute around the greens.

    A guy i play with who is a former scratch golfer told me that if a high handicapper can give himself a par putt on every hole he wont go too far wrong.

    Even when im not striking the ball at my best , I always make sure to give myself a putt for par and ensure a bogey at the very worst

    If you can pick up a few pars then on the par 3s and the easier holes you will break 90!!!
  • Z1ggy16 wrote:


    Matt,



    You don't need to take my posts as offensive or an attack against you. I'm a subscriber to your channel and I do enjoy your content. I'll gladly post your original video in my original post if you'd like. I was inviting this forum to an open debate on your advice and yes, I had some criticism of it because it relies on high cappers to have not just an okay short game, but a pretty good one b/c theoretically they'd almost never be able to 3 putt since a majority of their 3rd shots would be little chips and pitches. According to statistics, 20+ cappers 3putt almost 25% of the time. Now is that because they aren't using your approach? Maybe.



    Since you posted these videos I have adopted your strategy and it does work. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say though... That's just my opinion. On the whole, I do 100% agree with you that less skilled golfers could benefit from hitting shorter clubs off the tee. I personally rarely take driver out of the bag and most of the time that's beneficial to me.




    I was really just curious as to why the suggestions put forward from the video, weren't the actual suggestions I made in the video?

    But I did laugh when I read further posts and you started doing the actual tip.
    Driver: Callaway Epic Sub Zero +1° D
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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 24, 2018 #101

    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    Matt,



    You don't need to take my posts as offensive or an attack against you. I'm a subscriber to your channel and I do enjoy your content. I'll gladly post your original video in my original post if you'd like. I was inviting this forum to an open debate on your advice and yes, I had some criticism of it because it relies on high cappers to have not just an okay short game, but a pretty good one b/c theoretically they'd almost never be able to 3 putt since a majority of their 3rd shots would be little chips and pitches. According to statistics, 20+ cappers 3putt almost 25% of the time. Now is that because they aren't using your approach? Maybe.



    Since you posted these videos I have adopted your strategy and it does work. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say though... That's just my opinion. On the whole, I do 100% agree with you that less skilled golfers could benefit from hitting shorter clubs off the tee. I personally rarely take driver out of the bag and most of the time that's beneficial to me.




    I was really just curious as to why the suggestions put forward from the video, weren't the actual suggestions I made in the video?

    But I did laugh when I read further posts and you started doing the actual tip.


    At the time, that was what I recalled from memory and my interpretation of what you suggested. Seemed like it was along the lines of [mid] iron off the tee, lay up to some sort of short pitching yardage, pitch on as close you can, putt (putt?), rinse and repeat.



    I also enjoyed your recent video where you shot 80 only using 4 clubs...proves a decent point.
    WITB
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  • Chowdah86Chowdah86 Members Posts: 342 ✭✭
    edited Jul 24, 2018 #102
    I think the majority of folks who cant break 90 would best beneift from the following:



    #1) Stop Duffing it: STOP Hitting irons heavy. Thats a big one. That and stop thinning wedges over the green. Thin your irons, Fat your wedges.

    #2) Putting speed. Dont hit the ball all over the green. Roll it so it stops near the hole. Closer and closer if you must.

    #3) Stop losing balls. Off the tee mostly, but in general: Review every shot, with the primary objective of not losing the ball.

    #4) Learn how to get out of a bunker in one stroke every time.

    #5) Use the driver less. Ask yourself if the hole would be easier without a driver. Many times a well placed, accurate Fairway or hybrid is far more valuable than a moderately accurate bomb. Put yourself on flat land, with an unobstructed approach shot.
  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Chowdah86 wrote:


    I think the majority of folks who cant break 90 would best beneift from the following:



    #1) Stop Duffing it: STOP Hitting irons heavy. Thats a big one. That and stop thinning wedges over the green. Thin your irons, Fat your wedges.

    #2) Putting speed. Dont hit the ball all over the green. Roll it so it stops near the hole. Closer and closer if you must.

    #3) Stop losing balls. Off the tee mostly, but in general: Review every shot, with the primary objective of not losing the ball.

    #4) Learn how to get out of a bunker in one stroke every time.

    #5) Use the driver less. Ask yourself if the hole would be easier without a driver. Many times a well placed, accurate Fairway or hybrid is far more valuable than a moderately accurate bomb. Put yourself on flat land, with an unobstructed approach shot.




    Translation: be a better golfer.
  • LefthookLefthook Golf nerd Members Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Exactly!



    Make the good shots better and eliminate the bad ones. 👍
  • GSDriverGSDriver Members Posts: 654 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Avoid penalty strokes, and short game, short game, short game.
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  • Chowdah86Chowdah86 Members Posts: 342 ✭✭
    edited Jul 26, 2018 #106
    chippa13 wrote:

    Chowdah86 wrote:


    I think the majority of folks who cant break 90 would best beneift from the following:



    #1) Stop Duffing it: STOP Hitting irons heavy. Thats a big one. That and stop thinning wedges over the green. Thin your irons, Fat your wedges.

    #2) Putting speed. Dont hit the ball all over the green. Roll it so it stops near the hole. Closer and closer if you must.

    #3) Stop losing balls. Off the tee mostly, but in general: Review every shot, with the primary objective of not losing the ball.

    #4) Learn how to get out of a bunker in one stroke every time.

    #5) Use the driver less. Ask yourself if the hole would be easier without a driver. Many times a well placed, accurate Fairway or hybrid is far more valuable than a moderately accurate bomb. Put yourself on flat land, with an unobstructed approach shot.




    Translation: be a better golfer.




    Its true, easier said than done. But you might be surprised. For many people playing poor golf (100+ scores), just identifying these issues can help to shave strokes. For example, when I introduced a girlfriend of mine to the game, she had a decent iron game: short and straight. But when she got on the greens she was hitting the ball all over the green, choosing the right line, but blowing it past the hole 5 feet or 5 feet short. I (carefully) suggested that she focus on speed, try to roll the ball right up to the hole, no further, no shorter. Simply identifying a simple issue shaved 5-8 strokes off her score!



    Many people playing poor golf make the same simple mistakes over and over. Simply focusing on hitting the ground in front of the ball instead fo behind it will likelty turn every occasional 5 yard duff into a 150 yard worm burner at the worst. This puts the ball closer to the green and gives the opportinity for a lower score.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • flushemflushem Members Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    it has been a while since being mid teen hcp golfer ranging from 13 to 16. to a point, i thought it was what it was. But I don't wanna give up. I wanna be better.



    Currently, my hcp is 16 and average score from past 20 rounds is 94.5. 9 out of 20 was below 95. 4 out of 20 was in 80s. my home course (71.5/130) is narrow, hilly and undulated. In other word, very unforgiving. I usually end up losing handful of balls.



    I have somewhat been successful with 70% rule and nothing on mind rule but I tend to choke in tournament. Currently working on 30 yds or less chip shots and consistency in driving with driver, 3w and hybrids.



    any other advise for me?
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  • N0rs3manN0rs3man Members Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 13, 2018 #108
    Take a 75% swing with your driver open stance helps restrict turn



    Focus on hands being at the target or slightly right of target on all swings at the moment of impact



    Do this and you will break 90 next time out

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  • flushemflushem Members Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    N0rs3man wrote:


    Take a 75% swing with your driver open stance helps restrict turn



    Focus on hands being at the target or slightly right of target on all swings at the moment of impact



    Do this and you will break 90 next time out




    I will certainly try it.
    WWG1 WGA
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Why would you want to restrict your hip turn? Not that I am a coach, but I've taken lessons with Monte, and never once was any student told to "restrict your hip turn". Sounds like a disaster for your lower back. Would not do.
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  • N0rs3manN0rs3man Members Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    Why would you want to restrict your hip turn? Not that I am a coach, but I've taken lessons with Monte, and never once was any student told to "restrict your hip turn". Sounds like a disaster for your lower back. Would not do.

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  • N0rs3manN0rs3man Members Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    It just works... sending hands right of target line flattens out swing and creates much less stress on lower back. 75% effort reduces stress on back. Drives will be in fairway 80% of max drive distance. It's a trade off of distance for accuracy and its an easy way to get lower scores. Maximizing ones potential might need another strategy, but if you struggle at getting it in play then do this until you learn to wack it 300 yards down the pipe every time

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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 13, 2018 #113
    N0rs3man wrote:


    It just works... sending hands right of target line flattens out swing and creates much less stress on lower back. 75% effort reduces stress on back. Drives will be in fairway 80% of max drive distance. It's a trade off of distance for accuracy and its an easy way to get lower scores. Maximizing ones potential might need another strategy, but if you struggle at getting it in play then do this until you learn to wack it 300 yards down the pipe every time


    I'd rather take a proper swing with a higher lofted club than to take some sort of weird hip restricted swing-to-the-opposite-field motion with my driver. No coach has ever told me to do this. Agree to disagree.
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  • N0rs3manN0rs3man Members Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    You nailed it honestly. If it was a proper swing then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Open stance isn't the key, you can do a closed stance. The key is not to come ott and the hands going to right of the target instills the relationship of where your hands end and hitting draws and fades which is crucial for taking one side of the fairway out of play

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  • flushemflushem Members Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:

    N0rs3man wrote:


    It just works... sending hands right of target line flattens out swing and creates much less stress on lower back. 75% effort reduces stress on back. Drives will be in fairway 80% of max drive distance. It's a trade off of distance for accuracy and its an easy way to get lower scores. Maximizing ones potential might need another strategy, but if you struggle at getting it in play then do this until you learn to wack it 300 yards down the pipe every time


    I'd rather take a proper swing with a higher lofted club than to take some sort of weird hip restricted swing-to-the-opposite-field motion with my driver. No coach has ever told me to do this. Agree to disagree.




    For me, it does make sense. My recent preshot routine is to rotate my hip left as impact position and swing straight line. It creates sensation of "sending hand right of target line." trajectory usually straight or slight fade. the problem is that I often forget to do it on course. From reading this, I am willing to cut few yards for consistency and better score. at least I am trying.
    WWG1 WGA
  • flushemflushem Members Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    How about the course management?
    • Do you pull out f/w or hybrid instead of driver?
    • Do you place balls on fairway factoring your approach shot distance?
    • Do you focus on short game?
    • Do you focus on score or each stroke without thinking about score?
    • anything else?
    WWG1 WGA
  • flushemflushem Members Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    N0rs3man wrote:


    It just works... sending hands right of target line flattens out swing and creates much less stress on lower back. 75% effort reduces stress on back. Drives will be in fairway 80% of max drive distance. It's a trade off of distance for accuracy and its an easy way to get lower scores. Maximizing ones potential might need another strategy, but if you struggle at getting it in play then do this until you learn to wack it 300 yards down the pipe every time




    I tried your recommendation on course and range. It did work. Surprisingly, it felt easy and natural to swing with slight open stance as I am natural drawer. some shots were faded but mostly straight. Thanx.



    Past 2 rounds, I shot 94 and 90; when I shot 94, I made 4 straight double bogeys in the last 4 holes. Now I try to make 4 GIRs, 4 Pars or better and 4 Up & Downs. Road to 85 is near.
    WWG1 WGA
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Breaking 90 the easiest way is to get your ball striking to the point where you can mostly eliminate blow up holes. In order to eliminate blow up holes that means minimizing penalties off the tee and wasted shots (shanks, duffs, flubbed chips, leaving balls in bunkers, 3-putts, etc)



    When you do get off line-take your medicine and just get the ball back in play.

    When you have a large carry over a hazard, lay up

    When you short side yourself, dont play the hero shot, play the high percentage shot to get the ball on the green

    On par 5s, only play the club you can confidently hit off the deck on second shots
  • ctmason_98ctmason_98 TOTALLY outta the bag... Members Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Amazing how many replies over the months amount to, “The best strategy is to stop not breaking 90.”
  • MaineMarinerMaineMariner Members Posts: 481 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 26, 2018 #120
    I've been hovering around the low 90's all year. This is my second or third year of what I consider taking the game "seriously," as in I actually think about what I'm doing swing wise and strategy wise. I was starting to get really frustrated that I was not showing much improvement despite marked improvement in my swing and ball striking.



    Then two things happened that shot me into the 80's with room to spare:



    (1) I figured out my driver. This was the big one. I've hit my irons, hybrids, and fairway woods totally fine all year but my driver? Utter nightmare. My okay miss, which was probably 30% of the time, was an ugly duck hook. My really bad miss, which was probably 40% of the time, was a worm burner that went maybe 50 yards. Then it was 10% total blocks to the right and 10% good drives. 10% meh. Now that I'm hitting my driver well, even if I hit a not-great drive I'm still advancing the ball to a playable spot. This has been huuuuuge.



    (2) The other one is that I played a couple easier courses. My usual course is not particularly long (6200ish from the whites) but it is tight, hilly, heavily wooded, and features lots of thick greenside rough. Oh and it's almost always wet. Decent shots that are just a little off can quite often become penalty strokes. You will not find your ball in the woods. I recently played a course that was a little flatter and a lot more open and shot my career best score (84). And I didn't even feel like I played any better, it was just an easier course.



    I guess my takeaways are to minimize your big misses and avoid disaster. For me, my tee shots were putting me in a position where bogey was the most I could possibly ask for. Once par becomes more reasonable, scoring is way easier.
    Callaway Big Bertha Fusion, Aldila Rogue M-AX 75
    Callaway Rogue 3 Wood, Project X EvenFlow Blue 75
    Srixon Z H45 3 & 4 hybrid, Kuro Kage Black
    Srixon Z 565 irons, 5 - AW, Nippon Modus 3 Tour 120
    Callaway MD3 S Grind 54 deg.
    Callaway MD4 W Grind 60 deg.
    Toulon Columbus / Odyssey O-Works Black Jailbird Mini S
  • benhays98benhays98 Members Posts: 47 ✭✭
    For me to break into the 80's and stay there is/was/always will be grinding on my game..



    This is what I do and YMMV:



    18 lessons, twice a week for the last 3 months, with a very good coach



    and



    3-4 practice sessions/per week of...

    ---50-100 balls at the range, focusing on technique (this alternated between wedge work of the 7-9-11 swings, regular clubs and ball flight)

    ---50 balls at the range, focusing on situational shot selection

    ---10-15 minutes focused on green-side chipping (bump and run, 50/54/58 work and when to choose each)

    ---20-30 minutes focused on putting (some lag, but living in the 3-10 ft range pretty heavily)



    Started this in Apr/May 2018 timeframe (was previously shooting 110-120) and now 4 of my last 7 rounds were in the 80's and just shot an 80 (gross) in a local tourney (with 3 birdies, 2 OB's, 4-5 pars, with far too many lip out bogeys). I regularly play with a buddy who shoots off a solid 4. We haven't played in the last 2 months and he was at a loss for words at how well I play now (his words).

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