Powerful players irons: P790 vs Apex CF16... etc

Hello, I am currently searching for a new set of irons and have encountered what may be a problem for me...

I’m a high speed player, usually swing it between 115-120mph with a driver over the course of a season and currently use a combination set of Titleist 712 CB/MB with X100 shafts.

As a result of not playing as much and my confidence fading I’ve been considering buying ‘players’ irons which are more forgiving than my current set.

However, I have been told that the ‘hotter’ faced irons may not be a great idea for me since I am a little steep and have alot of speed I may find it hard to control the distance and get alot of low spinning fliers.

So I was hoping to find out:

- which powerful players irons people prefer (P790, CF16, AP3...)?

- if any high speed players have had issues with the flexing faces (or had no issues) on the course?

- how these sets compare to blades for low hcp players?

- what difference, if any, these sets have made to your game?

Thank you!

You would probably see enough forgiveness in something like AP2 and not have to worry about learning new yardages and need new wedge set up. You don't need the help on distance and I'm assuming not launch. You would have to be all over the face for something bigger than AP2 to make a difference.

You would probably see enough forgiveness in something like AP2 and not have to worry about learning new yardages and need new wedge set up. You don't need the help on distance and I'm assuming not launch. You would have to be all over the face for something bigger than AP2 to make a difference.

Thanks for the input. I’ve heard this view too, I’ve had a set of AP2s in the past and have been trying the new X forged etc but don’t seem to be hitting them quite as well as the CF16 bracket of club.

I’ve been a very good ball striker in the past and I’m starting to think that my main issue is psychological as I feel more considerably more confident swinging something that I know is going to offer me a bit of help which might be making all the difference...

Have you tinkered with P790 etc on the course at all?

I went from the Titleist 735.CM's to Callaway Apex CF16 last year and have been very happy with the results.

The only issue I've encountered so far is that I have to grip down on the PW in order to make up for the large difference between that club and my 52 degree gap wedge (stock shot: 150 yards vs 120 yards).

They are great feeling clubs that give me loads of confidence at address.

I went from the Titleist 735.CM's to Callaway Apex CF16 last year and have been very happy with the results.

The only issue I've encountered so far is that I have to grip down on the PW in order to make up for the large difference between that club and my 52 degree gap wedge (stock shot: 150 yards vs 120 yards).

 

They are great feeling clubs that give me loads of confidence at address.

Thanks for the response.

I assume you are a relatively low hcp/high speed player too hitting PW 150 (even with strong lofts)?

Also, have you ever felt that the distance control with this style of clubs are inconsistent for you? Or that spin can be too low?

I think I’d use a 48,54,60 wedge combo if i ended up going for them!

I'm don't have as high of a swing speed as you, but I do hit my irons pretty far. I was fit at Club Champion for the p790s, I've had them about 2 months. I have had quite a few shots that just blew past my target. I like them a lot, the feel is pretty awesome and they look great, but I'm not sure if I will hold onto them.

If I didn't spend $1900 on them (oban shafts were $550) I probably would have gone with something else.

I'm thinking about getting a set of P790's 4-PW, and having my builder adjust them to 2° weaker in the 4-8 irons so they match closer to my P770's. Anyone else go this route yet? I'm not looking to gain distance, just some added forgiveness. I'd think at some point I'd combo the 4,5,and 6 P790's with 7, 8, 9, PW P770's.

I'm thinking about getting a set of P790's 4-PW, and having my builder adjust them to 2° weaker in the 4-8 irons so they match closer to my P770's. Anyone else go this route yet? I'm not looking to gain distance, just some added forgiveness. I'd think at some point I'd combo the 4,5,and 6 P790's with 7, 8, 9, PW P770's.

Yes sir!

Did just that when I had my P790 irons.....2* weak in the 4-7, 1.5*/8, 0.5/9

Did help with the gaps and control.

I'd say my P790s are pretty consistent. They are insanely forgiving for their size, so if that's an issue I wouldn't worry. If you strike middle pretty often though, I'd maybe look at AP2's, or even slightly older Mizuno forged CB's.

I have been playing the Apex/Apex Pro combo set for the last year and I am currently testing new irons due to the inconsistency with the Apex's. The cup face on the Apex does some strange things at times.

I'm thinking about getting a set of P790's 4-PW, and having my builder adjust them to 2° weaker in the 4-8 irons so they match closer to my P770's. Anyone else go this route yet? I'm not looking to gain distance, just some added forgiveness. I'd think at some point I'd combo the 4,5,and 6 P790's with 7, 8, 9, PW P770's.

This is what I’m looking to do too. Not bothered about gaining distance!

I have been playing the Apex/Apex Pro combo set for the last year and I am currently testing new irons due to the inconsistency with the Apex's. The cup face on the Apex does some strange things at times.

This is what I fear. I really enjoyed hitting the 7i the other day but feel that the novelty of the forgiveness would wear off if I started air mailing greens on the course...

I just put the Rogue Pro's in the bag. Hard to tell if I will run into hot spots yet, haven't really noticed it yet. I have a friend with the P790s, he sometimes hits cannon shots with them.

Another to consider, Srixon 765. I was playing them last year, very forgiving for a players cavity IMO, with great feel. Even try the 565s, I played them in my 3-4 irons, even more forgiving.... I never noticed hot spots with the 765s. I moved on due to the shafts I had and elbow issues....but sometimes regret getting rid of them...

I went from the Titleist 735.CM's to Callaway Apex CF16 last year and have been very happy with the results.

The only issue I've encountered so far is that I have to grip down on the PW in order to make up for the large difference between that club and my 52 degree gap wedge (stock shot: 150 yards vs 120 yards).

 

They are great feeling clubs that give me loads of confidence at address.

 

Thanks for the response.

I assume you are a relatively low hcp/high speed player too hitting PW 150 (even with strong lofts)?

 

Also, have you ever felt that the distance control with this style of clubs are inconsistent for you? Or that spin can be too low?

 

I think I'd use a 48,54,60 wedge combo if i ended up going for them!

150 yards for a PW is on the low side for Golfwrx. Most of us type that we hit the CF16 PW in the 170 range.

...

I have been playing the Apex/Apex Pro combo set for the last year and I am currently testing new irons due to the inconsistency with the Apex's. The cup face on the Apex does some strange things at times.

 

This is what I fear. I really enjoyed hitting the 7i the other day but feel that the novelty of the forgiveness would wear off if I started air mailing greens on the course...

And it does happen....I have been testing the Ping I200 and the X Forged. The I200 is more forgiving IMO but not by much. The Apex are forgiving but those hot ones can cost you a couple of shots per round every so often.

With that much speed you would almost certainly need to bend the 790’s or cf16’s weak. I’ll echo others in that Ap2’s and the new x forged would probably be better for that much speed and offer plent of forgiveness.

a Callaway Apex PRO or Taylormade P770 is more than enough to make up for what a Titleist 712 CB/MB combo set doesn't give you.

edit: any iron with a Face Cup or Slots and foam like a CF 16 or P790 is going to drive a long hitter's yardages absolutely crazy. period.

I'm not quite as high SS as you (I'm around 113mph) but I went for an iron fitting yesterday.

I currently play jpx 900 forged and after hitting some shots with my 6 and 7 iron the main thing the fitter noticed was the front to back dispersion. The difference between my shortest and longest shots was way too big.

Like you explained in your opening post, the face is just too hot and results in very inconsistent yardages.

I ended up in a split set of MP 18 MMC and SC. I don't know how much more forgiving they'll be compared to your current set but they really dialed in my yardages to a nice tight grouping.

Thanks for all of the responses, i’ll definitely take this info into account.

I’d love to get both styles of sets and do a direct comparison but as a student I certainly cannot afford to do that!

Minus AP2 (as I’ve had them in the past) are there any standout sets that any of you would recommend that offers plenty of forgiveness without the hotter faces?

Iblade. Try them.

TM 770's, Srixon Z745 / 765, Cally Apex Pro, Mizuno JPX 900 Tour, Ping i200.

Anyone here tried/use AP3? If one manufacturer would still consider distance control in their more powerful/forgiving option it would surely be Titleist...

I went from the Titleist 735.CM's to Callaway Apex CF16 last year and have been very happy with the results.

The only issue I've encountered so far is that I have to grip down on the PW in order to make up for the large difference between that club and my 52 degree gap wedge (stock shot: 150 yards vs 120 yards).

 

They are great feeling clubs that give me loads of confidence at address.

Yeah with a 45 degree PW you really need to think about swapping the 52 wedge to a 50 degree.

Hello, I am currently searching for a new set of irons and have encountered what may be a problem for me...

 

I’m a high speed player, usually swing it between 115-120mph with a driver over the course of a season and currently use a combination set of Titleist 712 CB/MB with X100 shafts.

 

As a result of not playing as much and my confidence fading I’ve been considering buying ‘players’ irons which are more forgiving than my current set.

 

However, I have been told that the ‘hotter’ faced irons may not be a great idea for me since I am a little steep and have alot of speed I may find it hard to control the distance and get alot of low spinning fliers.

 

So I was hoping to find out:

- which powerful players irons people prefer (P790, CF16, AP3...)?

- if any high speed players have had issues with the flexing faces (or had no issues) on the course?

- how these sets compare to blades for low hcp players?

- what difference, if any, these sets have made to your game?

 

 

Thank you!

I’ve played the Apex CF16 for a year + and they are a solid iron. I tested the P790 and they were similar numbers wise but I prefer the shorter blade length of the Apex.

In terms of your use of them... couple of things.

1. I ultimately changed (in the process) due to spin #s. I just don’t generate enough spin or increased launch angle to justify the lower spin. I just struggle holding greens with the 7i. Plus I do get the occasional “jumper” that people talk about with the 7. As in I could hit 10 balls pretty well and most will go 167ish but then that random 1/10 ball goes 176+ (hit one 180 on TrackMan) and that just isn’t usable for me on the golf course. Went back to my Apex Pros in the 5-7 bent one strong with the new Apex MB en route 8-pW

2. At your speed I’m sure the spin while probably lower would still work. But you’d have to check distances. If you’re actually that much speed you may be hitting the 7i like 185+ and to me that just creates gapping issues.

I personally hated the feel of the AP3

The general consensus seems to be that this style of clubs produce a 10+ yard flier once in a while and gapping has to be adjusted due to strong lofted short irons...

Definitely going to do some more trackman testing with CF16, P790, AP2 style sets and my current MB 7i to see dispersion and spin etc.

I’m a good player (most days) and still have a few shots a round where I feel my bladed short irons punish me 10 or so yards for a slightly bad strike... Do any of you think this would be helped more by 790 etc over AP2 etc?

I wish this wasn’t a problem (it certainly did not used to be!!) but I’m just not hitting it close enough with short irons close anymore and need something to boost the confidence as much as possible.

There’s obviously technical problems too but it’s incredibly frustrating being able to hit it closer from 200+ than 160 in and being scared of my current short irons

To specifically answer your question about 790 vs AP2 on forgiveness...

I personally believe (and granted Mark Crossfield helps me believe this) that all the additional “forgiveness” a 790 would offer you vs the AP2 is a bit overblown.

If you mishit a club it’s going to drop in performance. If your stock 7i with an AP2 goes 165 and you mishit it off the toe it’s going to fly 156-160 yards depending on severity. If you’re stock 790 7i flies 175 and you mishit it off the toe it’s going to fly 166-170ish.

In other words mishits are mishits. My CF16 definitely offer me “a touch” more forgiveness than the Apex Pro but how much? Hard to say. But the Apex Pro give me a spin model that (800+ RPM loft for loft) is just more consistent.

Last thing I’ll add is that you mentioned short irons. To me this is where these style of irons like 790, Apex, etc offer the least help. For players like me without a lot of speed my performance starts dropping off a lot at the 6i with blades on mishits. With a 9-iron it doesn’t matter what I hit. I could hit a 1950s Wilson blade and hit it just as good and the performance of the club is going to be just about as good. It’s the 5-7 iron where these distance irons start to become attractive...

I’ve hit the P790 and had the CF16’s. The CF16’s on the monitor were by far the best fit, but on the course totally different. I played Ping I5’s for years before getting the CF16’s. My distances were so off with the CF16’s I just couldn’t get comfortable on the course.

There is a par 3 at my home course that plays between 162-170 yds depending on the pin placement. With the I5’s it was always a 6 iron. Just adjust for a cut or go at the flag. With the CF16’s I could never figure out what to hit. 7 iron would be long and I even put a few in the trees 10 yards behind the green. I would try 8, but that would be short or a mishit because I tried to really step on it.

I’ve been playing AP2’s for the last season and they’re back to normal distances, 10 yard variances between clubs.