What Would a 10 Handicapper Shoot at TPC Sawgrass?

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  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,984 ✭✭
    youraway2 wrote:


    I played it, one tee box forward from the back, I was a 12 at the time and shot 84. The conditions were most likely worse than when they play the tournament. It was very wet, long rough (+4 inches Bermuda) and fairly fast greens. Mud shots everywhere especially near the aprons. I noticed and I haven't seen a lie this week in the rough where you can't find the ball. In addition, pine straw now covers all the normally bad areas. Wait till they move to March. Depending on the weather, it may be cold, windy and wet.



    rgk5 wrote:


    I'm and eight and shot 82 there five years ago. This, from the second back set of tees. Finished par, par, par.




    So the blue tees? And the distance was around 6,500-6,661?



    And they're playing it around 7,245 this week?



    So add 30 yards+ to every hole and how do you think that would affect your score.
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,154 ✭✭
    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.
  • RH2RH2 Members Posts: 112 ✭✭
    I guess the only real way to find out is for them to let a foursome of WRXers play the Sunday before the pro tourney!
  • lowndeslowndes Members Posts: 394 ✭✭
    I played it twice - as an 11 I shot 84 and as a 12 an 87. Course was pretty firm both days but obviously I wasn’t playing from the tips.
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,140 ✭✭
    Schley wrote:


    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.




    Yeah 10+s arent known for their course management or distance control. it can go sideways pretty quick. I play with 10s who pick up their ball if theyre on their 7th shot... " cant make/post worse than that so why bother"
  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,010 ✭✭
    lowheel wrote:

    Schley wrote:


    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.




    Yeah 10+s arent known for their course management or distance control. it can go sideways pretty quick. I play with 10s who pick up their ball if theyre on their 7th shot... " cant make/post worse than that so why bother"




    That's a great point. I regularly play with people who do this. It makes me wonder sometimes about a chicken/egg thing regarding the GHIN system. If the reason you can't take/post more than a double is because you've never taken/posted more than a double, are you really a 10? Counting them all, I'd say a 10 in the GHIN would have to have a good round to break 100. Sorry if already posted.
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  • YuckYuck Fore! Members Posts: 2,455 ✭✭
    Played it with a dozen of folks with handicaps ranging from 6 to 12. 2 rounds, low score was 80, several nines under 40, several scores under 85. High scores were high because we require folks to finish the hole. high score on 17 was an 8. Played it at about 6500. One player who was/is a 12 capper did birdie 17 and 18.
  • North TexasNorth Texas Members Posts: 4,113 ✭✭
    edited May 12, 2018 #39
    There are "suburban legends" of scratch golfers who played at Oakmont and shot 130.



    Not buying this crap either. We're definitely talking vanity handicap here. I'm a 9 and I'm breaking 130 at Oakmont. By a lot. Geez, where do people get this s*** that these courses are f...ing hard?
  • golfandfishinggolfandfishing Members Posts: 3,439 ✭✭


    There are "suburban legends" of scratch golfers who played at Oakmont and shot 130.



    Not buying this crap either. We're definitely talking vanity handicap here. I'm a 9 and I'm breaking 130 at Oakmont. By a lot. Geez, where do people get this s*** that these courses are f...ing hard?




    I’ve seen, heard and participated in a lot of things on a golf course and haven’t heard of a scratch shooting 130 at Oakmont. I know probably 10 people who have played it and it’s tough, but 130 just isn’t a score they mentioned. All said how imminently playable the course was for well played shots and an escape always an option when in trouble. I’ve never heard of players of any type going for 130 at Oakmont.
  • mark174acemark174ace Members Posts: 138 ✭✭
    That might be true from the pro tees, but that course is a lot different from the regular tees. A lot of the holes have much more severe angles and carries from the pro tees. I broke 40 on the back nine the only time I played there. Oddly enough the last three holes really fit my eye. I made a mess of the par 3 13th hole and a couple of the par 4's on the front. I kept leaving all my putts short because I spent too much time watching the tournament on tv and the greens do not roll that fast in December haha.
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,575 ✭✭

    youraway2 wrote:


    I played it, one tee box forward from the back, I was a 12 at the time and shot 84. The conditions were most likely worse than when they play the tournament. It was very wet, long rough (+4 inches Bermuda) and fairly fast greens. Mud shots everywhere especially near the aprons. I noticed and I haven't seen a lie this week in the rough where you can't find the ball. In addition, pine straw now covers all the normally bad areas. Wait till they move to March. Depending on the weather, it may be cold, windy and wet.



    rgk5 wrote:


    I'm and eight and shot 82 there five years ago. This, from the second back set of tees. Finished par, par, par.




    So the blue tees? And the distance was around 6,500-6,661?



    And they're playing it around 7,245 this week?



    So add 30 yards+ to every hole and how do you think that would affect your score.




    Definitely up but bear in mind you would not add 30 yds. to every hole, more on some.
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  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,661 ✭✭
    edited May 13, 2018 #43
    lowheel wrote:

    Schley wrote:


    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.




    Yeah 10+s arent known for their course management or distance control. it can go sideways pretty quick. I play with 10s who pick up their ball if theyre on their 7th shot... " cant make/post worse than that so why bother"




    I'm one of those guys; I just want to keep things moving. I once played TPC when I was a 10, counted every stroke, and shot about 125. My problem with that course was that I didn't have a range finder, so I never knew how far I was from anything. Once I got off track, I was dead. I don't like courses that are built to infuriate you. Golf isn't a "test". If I need to be tested, I'll go back and take another calculus exam.
  • kozubskozubs Members Posts: 274 ✭✭
    I'm currently a 7. I played harbour town 3 weeks before the tour was there from the dye tees ay 73.3 and 144. Easier than sawgrass but the wind was blowing 30 mph and this was after a 6 months layoff from a canadian winter. I shot 84 80. The second day I ended double bogey bogey so could have been much better. I know we're talking different courses but I say a true 10 easily bests 100 on a normal day. However, in a pga tourney with the crowed and camera there's not a chance in **** I break 100 at harbour town let alone Sawgrass.
  • golfandfishinggolfandfishing Members Posts: 3,439 ✭✭

    lowheel wrote:

    Schley wrote:


    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.




    Yeah 10+s arent known for their course management or distance control. it can go sideways pretty quick. I play with 10s who pick up their ball if theyre on their 7th shot... " cant make/post worse than that so why bother"




    I'm one of those guys; I just want to keep things moving. I once played TPC when I was a 10, counted every stroke, and shot about 125. My problem with that course was that I didn't have a range finder, so I never knew how far I was from anything. Once I got off track, I was dead. I don't like courses that are built to infuriate you. Golf isn't a "test". If I need to be tested, I'll go back and take another calculus exam.




    Sprinkler heads don’t have yardage marked at TPC Sawgrass?
  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    I’m a +1.8, played it 3 days after the players in 2011 from the championship tees and the pins were still in the Sunday locations. I shot 77 and I can honestly say it was one of the best rounds of my life. I’ve shot 61 twice (not there obviously) but felt like I hit it just as good as my lowest rounds. I made one stupid double on 6 because I chose the wrong line and it bounced into the pine straw behind a tree. Highlight was almost my near ace on 17. Those greens are absolute lightning. I got married there and my ex uncle is Mark Mccumber, made a few phone calls and got to play it. One of those rounds you’ll never forget.

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  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    To add to that I played with my brother in law who is a solid 8, hits it like a scratch golfer but has short game struggles, my best man who is a 10 and my father in law who is a 10. Only one of them broke 100, my brother in law shot 94
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  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,661 ✭✭


    lowheel wrote:

    Schley wrote:


    I think they could break 100 from the back tees. When you play the course that is long as 1 shot longer than par you take out the long irons and fairway woods, which can lead to the lost balls/water. Instead of taking 3 wood from 250 plus, take your 7 iron to get to 100 and play it as 1 shot longer than par. This is the key IMO.




    Yeah 10+s arent known for their course management or distance control. it can go sideways pretty quick. I play with 10s who pick up their ball if theyre on their 7th shot... " cant make/post worse than that so why bother"




    I'm one of those guys; I just want to keep things moving. I once played TPC when I was a 10, counted every stroke, and shot about 125. My problem with that course was that I didn't have a range finder, so I never knew how far I was from anything. Once I got off track, I was dead. I don't like courses that are built to infuriate you. Golf isn't a "test". If I need to be tested, I'll go back and take another calculus exam.




    Sprinkler heads don't have yardage marked at TPC Sawgrass?




    Distance to the green isn't the problem. When you get off track and need to recover, you need to know the distance to someplace safe. That's the thing I could never figure out.
  • rafer11rafer11 Members Posts: 2,526
    mosesgolf wrote:


    I'd watch a made for TV event produced by TGC. "What would a scratch, 10, bogey player shoot?" Over under would be fun for this.




    Some TV show exec/producer needs to pick up with this comment and run with it. It also brings the game to the people.



    You take a scratch golfer, and 5-10 capper, a 10-15 capper, and a 20 capper. People can apply to the show, and each tournament the people selected are different.



    Then they play a Monday round after every tournament. They film it early Monday morning, and get something on the air on the Tuesday.
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,661 ✭✭
    rafer11 wrote:

    mosesgolf wrote:


    I'd watch a made for TV event produced by TGC. "What would a scratch, 10, bogey player shoot?" Over under would be fun for this.




    Some TV show exec/producer needs to pick up with this comment and run with it. It also brings the game to the people.



    You take a scratch golfer, and 5-10 capper, a 10-15 capper, and a 20 capper. People can apply to the show, and each tournament the people selected are different.



    Then they play a Monday round after every tournament. They film it early Monday morning, and get something on the air on the Tuesday.




    This is a great idea!
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,154 ✭✭
    rafer11 wrote:

    mosesgolf wrote:


    I'd watch a made for TV event produced by TGC. "What would a scratch, 10, bogey player shoot?" Over under would be fun for this.




    Some TV show exec/producer needs to pick up with this comment and run with it. It also brings the game to the people.



    You take a scratch golfer, and 5-10 capper, a 10-15 capper, and a 20 capper. People can apply to the show, and each tournament the people selected are different.



    Then they play a Monday round after every tournament. They film it early Monday morning, and get something on the air on the Tuesday.




    They had a show the US Open Challenge for a couple years sponsored by Golf Digest which was could a 8-10 handicap break 100. It started in 2008 and Tony Romo and Justin Timberlake played with this random lucky guy at Torrey Pines. Great show as I made it to the 2nd round of cuts from their all call advertisement.
  • ef131313ef131313 Members Posts: 99
    Played the whites as a 23 and shot 104. Hit 17 in regulation but 18 tee shot was in the water
  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Posts: 1,392 ClubWRX
    My father in law in an 8 handicap...

    We played Sawgrass a few years back the Tuesday after The Players...

    The stands were being taken down...

    Played the Valley course on Monday...



    Needless to say, he was ready and excited...



    If memory serves, he was 10 over thru 4 and told the caddy to quit scoring...



    The goofy thing about sawgrass for high and mid handicappers is the importance of landing in the right spot...which most amateurs can’t figure out...

    Sawgrass is ALL about where to land and where to miss...for guys like my father in law, who doesn’t impart a lot of spin, the course is very hard...

    So he would hit a normal shot for him into the wrong spot of the green and it would kick forward or sideways and roll to 50 feet away...

    From where he would 4 or 5 putt...



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  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,984 ✭✭
    edited May 13, 2018 #54
    rgk5 wrote:


    youraway2 wrote:


    I played it, one tee box forward from the back, I was a 12 at the time and shot 84. The conditions were most likely worse than when they play the tournament. It was very wet, long rough (+4 inches Bermuda) and fairly fast greens. Mud shots everywhere especially near the aprons. I noticed and I haven't seen a lie this week in the rough where you can't find the ball. In addition, pine straw now covers all the normally bad areas. Wait till they move to March. Depending on the weather, it may be cold, windy and wet.



    rgk5 wrote:


    I'm and eight and shot 82 there five years ago. This, from the second back set of tees. Finished par, par, par.




    So the blue tees? And the distance was around 6,500-6,661?



    And they're playing it around 7,245 this week?



    So add 30 yards+ to every hole and how do you think that would affect your score.




    Definitely up but bear in mind you would not add 30 yds. to every hole, more on some.




    Of course, I mean on average.



    My point is, it's a totally different golf course when you add 600 yards to it.



    If the player has to hit a longer club off the tee, accuracy will suffer.



    And on approach shots 10 handicaps typically struggle with their long irons/hybrids compared to mid irons.



    Also consider tournament pin locations and green speeds.
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,536 ✭✭
    edited May 13, 2018 #55


    There are "suburban legends" of scratch golfers who played at Oakmont and shot 130.



    Not buying this crap either. We're definitely talking vanity handicap here. I'm a 9 and I'm breaking 130 at Oakmont. By a lot. Geez, where do people get this s*** that these courses are f...ing hard?




    I’m a 10, and 130 would be on the table for me at Oakmont, depending on how severely they set up the course.



    I’ve played most of the recent US Open hosts from the Championship tees, and I think my best score has been 102...and that’s in standard “member” setup vs tournament trim.
  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,849 ✭✭
    A 10's avg score would be, what, 85? At home. 7320 is a lot of golf course. Playing from the tourney tees, tourney pins and green speed, I can see a round getting away. 10's are better than average, but they are not heroic off the tee and wizards around the green.
  • golfer3xxxgolfer3xxx Members Posts: 12
    This may be on obv comment, but I just want to add my opinion that when talking about: Can an A, B, or C handicap break X, Y, or Z score... it is overwhelmingly a question of distance. Perhaps more so for lower handicaps.



    In other words, if a course is comfortably within "par distance" for any given player, I think they are pretty much going to shoot to their ability level. Like, if there happened to be a scratch player who averaged 300 yards off the tee, quite frankly I think on any Tour course they would essentially shoot 2 over par.



    But anyway, I think that all conditions thought to be "difficult" for a Tour setup and actually difficult, and I think some are less difficult. The example of the latter is I believe perfectly smooth greens and happened to be running at 12 are easier to putt on.





    Having said all this my humble opinion is that the USGA Handicap Index system doesn't fully account for all aspects of a course. Sure, at ALL course the course rating is higher for the further-back tees, but not enough so. It's an extreme and maybe not common example, but a shorter hitter (for whatever reason, that's not the point) who averages par... I mean, how does/can this player's golfing "ability" be quantifiably compared to a longer hitter, period?



    A "scratch" who averages 230 off the tee, and a 6 who averages 290... who's actually better, especially playing a long course?
  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    edited May 13, 2018 #58
    farmer wrote:


    A 10's avg score would be, what, 85? At home. 7320 is a lot of golf course. Playing from the tourney tees, tourney pins and green speed, I can see a round getting away. 10's are better than average, but they are not heroic off the tee and wizards around the green.


    It plays a lot shorter then that the fairways were super quick when I played just days after. I’m moderately long but was quite surprised at the roll out of the fairways.



    On one I piped a 3 wood and had 124 left. On 2 I smashed driver around the corner and hit a long iron just off the left side. My normal 300 was going 325-330
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  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,849 ✭✭
    Blake, you're a +2 and avg 300 off the tee. That is NOT a 10 hdcp result.
  • RobotDoctorRobotDoctor Senior Hacker ClubWRX Posts: 4,546 ClubWRX
    MtlJeff wrote:


    I think most of the responses were fair. 95-105 seems like a realistic guess for a 10 index. Its an extremely penal course.



    We all agreed that a scratch would break 85 at Augusta. So 95-105 for a 10 at sawgrass seems right




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  • BlakeBstoneBlakeBstone Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    Blake, you're a +2 and avg 300 off the tee. That is NOT a 10 hdcp result.


    I understand just saying that the course plays very fast unless it’s wet. Length is not the issue at sawgrass it’s all about shot placement
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