Aha Moment--Loading Lag/Float Loading

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  • NotForeLongNotForeLong Banned Posts: 139
    Golfbeat wrote:


    I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.




    That’s not really true. It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the “lagged look” especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too. You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm. That is the hard part.
  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro ClubWRX Posts: 3,230 ClubWRX
    Lag is not creating by holding anything. Lag is created when one thing out runs the other thing attached to it. Power the arms properly and the club lags until the arms slow down and allow the club to accelerate and catch and pass. We want this to happen just after impact. This gives the look of shaft lean.... in reality, the club just hadn’t caught up to the arms yet. So, you can’t hold the lag or you the club doesn’t accelerate...means no power.
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  • Dougie JonesDougie Jones Members Posts: 16 ✭✭
    NXT wrote:


    Take it back any way you like, then do this:



    [media=]



    An easy way to eliminate confusion and contradiction.






    Good tips! I need to work on this.
  • Golf nerdGolf nerd Members Posts: 942
    edited May 18, 2018 #35

    Golfbeat wrote:


    I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.




    That's not really true. It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the "lagged look" especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too. You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm. That is the hard part.


    I would disagree with what you just said. Golfbeat is correct. We are not searching for a "lag look". We are searching for shaft lean at impact without flipping. If you concentrate mainly on the left hand radial deviation we can see that this is easier or I would say you can increase it and simultaneously open the club face as the left is more cupped. The more flat the left wrist is the less radial deviation is possible. There is also an influence on angle of attack, but mainly the problem is an open club face at P6, which needs a late closing motion which leads to a flipping motion.

    What Golfbeat is referring to is taught by Dana Dahlquist. Look into it and ask yourself why Dana moved on from a S&T and MORAD influenced teaching to what he is currently teaching. This old fella here demonstrates what Golfbeat is referring to. He releases the left radial deviation early and bows the left (flexion), which flattens the shaft in combination with rotation and results in shaft lean without flipping. Note that the student rotates a lot and tries not to release the left arm of the chest. It stays pinned longer.



    [media=]
  • Your-away!Your-away! Members Posts: 922 ✭✭


    My experience is if golfers would just improve their swings and not search for magic moves, they get better long term.




    A truer word never spoken!



    All these poor golfers trying to copy Ben Hogan, holding lag like Sergio, trying to be picture perfect like Adam scott, everyone has a natural swing, just make improvements to that rather than trying to do a completely different swing.



    Nick Faldo is a prime example, can anyone else practice 10 hours every day for 2 to 3 years? because thats how long it took him to change his swing
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  • rsballer10rsballer10 Members Posts: 740 ✭✭
    I think float loading is what my family likes to call an "optical delusion". I think it's just the club shallowing in transition, creating the look of a deep V wrist angle. No human can physically create 120+ degree wrist set while still holding on to the grip.
  • GungHoGolfGungHoGolf SkyTrak Afficionado Austin, TXMembers Posts: 866 ✭✭
    rsballer10 wrote:


    I think float loading is what my family likes to call an "optical delusion". I think it's just the club shallowing in transition, creating the look of a deep V wrist angle. No human can physically create 120+ degree wrist set while still holding on to the grip.




    I disagree. You’ll know float loading if/when you feel it - with loose wrists, let the momentum of the clubhead during the backswing help set the wrists, then start back down before they’re set fully. Can be done/felt from tiny chips up to full swings.



    What you’re talking about is the 2D optical illusion of > 90 lag when a shallow shaft and deep left arm are viewed from a FO angle. That can happen with or without float loading.
  • NotForeLongNotForeLong Banned Posts: 139
    Golf nerd wrote:


    Golfbeat wrote:


    I always thought that lag was created by keeping the wrists hinged up. Now, I understand that lag is created by having the wrists actually unhinge early whilst trying to keep the flex in the right wrist/and bow in left wrist as long as possible (or at least try to keep it past impact. Obviously, this needs to be done with the body rotating through all the way.




    That's not really true. It is certainly true that right wrist extension, however you get it, gives the "lagged look" especially face on. This has been fairly common knowledge amongst good teachers for awhile. However, you absolutely can keep the left wrist radially deviated to get the lagged look too. You need to match up the UD of left wrist to the supination of left forearm. That is the hard part.


    I would disagree with what you just said. Golfbeat is correct. We are not searching for a "lag look". We are searching for shaft lean at impact without flipping. If you concentrate mainly on the left hand radial deviation we can see that this is easier or I would say you can increase it and simultaneously open the club face as the left is more cupped. The more flat the left wrist is the less radial deviation is possible. There is also an influence on angle of attack, but mainly the problem is an open club face at P6, which needs a late closing motion which leads to a flipping motion.

    What Golfbeat is referring to is taught by Dana Dahlquist. Look into it and ask yourself why Dana moved on from a S&T and MORAD influenced teaching to what he is currently teaching. This old fella here demonstrates what Golfbeat is referring to. He releases the left radial deviation early and bows the left (flexion), which flattens the shaft in combination with rotation and results in shaft lean without flipping. Note that the student rotates a lot and tries not to release the left arm of the chest. It stays pinned longer.



    [media=]




    I think you missed my point. Golfbeat’s categorical statement that lag or whatever you want to call it is created by releasing the RD in the left wrist and keeping the right wrist in extension as opposed to any other way just isn’t correct. That is a way to do it, but it’s not like the secret or anything. I will give you this, if you are a beginner in understanding the golf swing, which it appears that you and golfbeat may be, the realization that you can get lag without the RD in the left wrist is very important for a greater understanding. But beyond beginners, I assume everyone knew this as it’s common knowledge among every good instructor. Sure, most of the trash on YouTube doesn’t understand this, but that’s because it’s trash.



    IMO in general “getting shaft lean without flipping” is pretty easy if you have some amount of golf talent. For others, it’s pretty much impossible and it’s not something that you are gonna be able to learn. So I think searching for that goal is kind of pointless if you’ve played for awhile and haven’t been able to achieve it. You can play very good golf without much shaft lean and with a minor flip, there are other things that could more easily be improved to make you better. If you have a scratch or better and still not doing it, then it may be worth looking into to get you to the next level.



    And finally, if any of these videos (didn’t watch that one but I’m sure if Dana made it it’s fine) are advocating holding the right wrist back, then run, don’t walk, elsewhere. That’s pretty much guaranteed to make you flip a lot and kills all your speed. It’s just as bad if not worse than holding the lag by keeping the RD in left wrist.
  • ronyrony Members Posts: 2,250
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #40
    I Float Load. Float Loading works well for players who have a natural, relaxed, smooth tempo swing. (Watch Boo Weekley, Lucas Glover, Sergio Garcia) You can't try to Float Load! It has to happen naturally in sync with the turn of the body and good swing mechanics. There is very little wrist **** on the backswing and the change of direction causes the wrists to set naturally on the way down. I don't even think about it but it creates Width, Club Set, and Lag all in one Fell Swoop, giving me a nice "POP" on the ball for more power. I'm a Senior and still single digit @ 6000 Yards and always get compliments on my swing and ball striking. Nobody ever asks if I Float Load because It's just a natural by-product of a smooth tempo golf swing.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,720 ✭✭
    My guess is that a lot of it depends on how you set your wrists and how much wrist action you generate. Float loading with a huge set from a stuck position is way different than a subtle late release. You may be finding that you're taking your hands out of it a little which as was previously mentioned is often a good thing.



    Good luck!
  • ronyrony Members Posts: 2,250
    Matt J wrote:


    My guess is that a lot of it depends on how you set your wrists and how much wrist action you generate. Float loading with a huge set from a stuck position is way different than a subtle late release. You may be finding that you're taking your hands out of it a little which as was previously mentioned is often a good thing.



    Good luck!




    I never try to actually set the club. It just happens. On a scale of 1-10, keeping my grip pressure at around a 6, keeping the clubhead a little outside my hands with a one-piece take away, the weight of the clubhead **** my wrists and automatically sets the club at the beginning of transition with the clubhead being the last thing to get to the top and the last thing to get to impact, but not so much that you can easily see it. I shallow the club on the downswing coming from inside and it just appears to be a smooth swing with the hands leading and delivers the same sensation as "Cracking a Whip." I use a straight line release. I'm using a bunch of words to describe what happens when I swing but I NEVER think about doing any of these things. It's just how I swing and I THINK it is what some people refer to as "Float Loading." I could be wrong about this, however, but I think that's what it is.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,720 ✭✭
    rony wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    My guess is that a lot of it depends on how you set your wrists and how much wrist action you generate. Float loading with a huge set from a stuck position is way different than a subtle late release. You may be finding that you're taking your hands out of it a little which as was previously mentioned is often a good thing.



    Good luck!




    I never try to actually set the club. It just happens. On a scale of 1-10, keeping my grip pressure at around a 6, keeping the clubhead a little outside my hands with a one-piece take away, the weight of the clubhead **** my wrists and automatically sets the club at the beginning of transition with the clubhead being the last thing to get to the top and the last thing to get to impact, but not so much that you can easily see it. I shallow the club on the downswing coming from inside and it just appears to be a smooth swing with the hands leading and delivers the same sensation as "Cracking a Whip." I use a straight line release. I'm using a bunch of words to describe what happens when I swing but I NEVER think about doing any of these things. It's just how I swing and I THINK it is what some people refer to as "Float Loading." I could be wrong about this, however, but I think that's what it is.




    I think most of these responses, including mine, were more geared towards the OP and his questions.



    My thought is that it is difficult to separate the different pieces of the golf swing for many players. Often those who try and set the wrists earlier to avoid "float loading" like the OP, may set them too much when they do so earlier in the backswing or it may invoke another problem. For instance, when I focus on a "one piece" takeaway, I often sway away from the ball.



    For whatever reason, the most "natural" way I move my wrists and hands to hit a golf ball, the club would travel outside the line (over plane) and come out to in with an open face. So, I either have to change the way I move my wrists or play a pull/cut. One of the ways I force a draw is to try not to set my wrists very much. That feels a lot like float loading. That's why I could see why the OP feels that his ball striking has improved. Less wrists and hands is simply better for some people, if they get enough power.
  • ronyrony Members Posts: 2,250
    10-4 Matt J. The golf swing regardless of one's ability, age, or fitness is something that is virtually impossible to master. Those who have played for a long time ultimately accept this but it is like dragging your dog in to give him a bath to get some people to understand this.



    I'd only offer this: If a person loves golf, has good athletic ability, and can work around most tracks while playing the ball down, and can break 90, they should just play, using their BEST swing, and be done with it. When you "Overthink the Golf Swing" you'll ruin the pleasure of playing. Keep hittin' Em Long and Straight! image/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,716 ClubWRX
    edited Dec 29, 2018 #45
    My new swing, which I had to develop in order to be able to play with chronic lower-back spasms, has dramatically DECREASED my lag. And though I'm hitting the ball 10 to 15 yards shorter with every club in my bag, I'm scoring almost identically.



    Lots of lag is, indeed, NOT good.



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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,720 ✭✭
    rony wrote:


    10-4 Matt J. The golf swing regardless of one's ability, age, or fitness is something that is virtually impossible to master. Those who have played for a long time ultimately accept this but it is like dragging your dog in to give him a bath to get some people to understand this.



    I'd only offer this: If a person loves golf, has good athletic ability, and can work around most tracks while playing the ball down, and can break 90, they should just play, using their BEST swing, and be done with it. When you "Overthink the Golf Swing" you'll ruin the pleasure of playing. Keep hittin' Em Long and Straight! image/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />




    I've certainly experienced it, and I've watched other experience it: wonder off into the woods of the technical swing and lose your "natural swing" lose interest in the game, shoot high scores, rinse, repeat.



    I can understand having the mentality of simply going out enjoying the Game, the weather, the golf course, probably most importantly the company.



    My whole life, it's what I do, I grind. I like unlocking puzzles. I like looking behind the curtain. Has it been to my detriment at times? Sure. But, it has also brought me immense pleasure.



    I have been playing with a few different equipment and swing related concepts for nearly a year now. Just in the last month a couple of things really "clicked." On a cold late December morn last week, I was nearly running around a golf course with a carry bag on my shoulder with a huge smile on my face as if I had just robbed a bank because my goofy "work" on my golf was paying off. That is worth it to me. To see what I can achieve. To each their own... I have heard of one of the guys I respect the most in the golf industry say no matter what he does, practice, lessons, equipment, etc. - he goes out and shoots somewhere between high-70's and high-80's and so he has quit bothering with trying to improve and simply plays. I may end up there one day. But, that is not today.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,720 ✭✭
    If you can really drag the handle and expose the heel of the club, with plenty of shaft lean, you know really make sure your hips and body weight is working down the line towards the target, then you can hit shots like this guy...







    probably my favorite thing golf related in 2018, Adam has one heck of a sense of humor to make this video! I became an instant fan.
  • ronyrony Members Posts: 2,250
    Good Post Matt J. The "Natural Swing" of an athletic person is IMO, paramount! I'm 77 yrs old, born in NYC and lived, worked, and raised my 3 Sons on Long Island until I relocated to DFW last year. My oldest Son lives in Colleyville. One of the other senior guys in my new foursome played Shortstop in MLB for 16 years. He admired how well this old guy could still work the ball around the course and asked me if I played Baseball. (I did and played in college.) Being athletic along with good Genes and staying trim and fit has much to do with it. No guarantees, but it helps.
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