At what age does winning become important

13

Comments

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,108 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:


    My boy didn't win today. We're selling his clubs for scrap... anyone need some junior golf clothes or a pushcart?




    Can you do a WITB so I can see the clubs? Might be in the market if they are left handed.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,911 ClubWRX
    leezer99 wrote:


    My boy didn't win today. We're selling his clubs for scrap... anyone need some junior golf clothes or a pushcart?




    I'd take them but my son only plays Taylormade. thanks tho.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,108 ✭✭
    wildcatden wrote:


    Mine hasn't played golf in 3 weeks now. Keeps playing this game called "passball" that I have never heard of before. Appears to be played with random sports-related balls around the house. Hoping this game catches on in D1 before he is ready for college.




    I thought you were going to say "Fortnite". I am sick of that game.
  • darter79darter79 Members Posts: 701 ✭✭
    kekoa wrote:

    leezer99 wrote:


    My boy didn't win today. We're selling his clubs for scrap... anyone need some junior golf clothes or a pushcart?




    I'd take them but my son only plays Taylormade. thanks tho.




    did you get signed yet? I hear they start that as early as 7 now.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,077 ✭✭
    I do have a couple sets of irons to sell if anyone's interested. PM me if you want details.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,803 ✭✭
    I have plenty of kids who shot high 90s at 13-14 who then became plus handicaps and played in college. Some of whom never won anything of note yet played college golf on top 20 teams.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,911 ClubWRX
    darter79 wrote:

    kekoa wrote:

    leezer99 wrote:


    My boy didn't win today. We're selling his clubs for scrap... anyone need some junior golf clothes or a pushcart?




    I'd take them but my son only plays Taylormade. thanks tho.




    did you get signed yet? I hear they start that as early as 7 now.




    Yup, he is signed, but we still pay for everything. image/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':to_become_senile:' />
  • maxamillian31maxamillian31 Members Posts: 26
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #69
    Almost better not to win everything at 10 (or younger) as it really is not always indicative of future success, at 14, 18 or beyond. Sure, some of the top juniors will continue to play well and improve but just as many will stop playing or become very disillusioned when they are suddenly not placing and being beaten by kids who are natural athletes and coming from other sports - and this happens A LOT in the teens. Puberty and growth spurs also play havoc with a junior's swing. We know first hand how hard it can be, on both juniors and parents, when a big growth spurt comes along, going from regular first place, regularly carding below par at 12 years old (forget about the 10 year old courses that are almost impossible to miss a fairway and below par is relatively easy if you can chip and putt) to 14 years old, missing cuts, a few rounds in the 80's etc.. Our younger junior who played other sports and took up golf later, is now more excited about golf and about starting to get scores down into the 70's, so will also work harder at it. Winning tournaments at 10 really does not matter to long term success..
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • nitaizipp15nitaizipp15 Members Posts: 11
    I'm 15 and shooting in the mid 70s. Do I still have a shot at college golf?
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,077 ✭✭


    I'm 15 and shooting in the mid 70s. Do I still have a shot at college golf?




    Yes, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just make sure you are looking at the right school for your academic needs and level of golf.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 436 ✭✭


    I'm 15 and shooting in the mid 70s. Do I still have a shot at college golf?




    In order to play in college you need to perform well in tournaments



    You say you are shooting mid 70s, so you are close to meeting the requirement of “shooting lower than 75 consistently” in order to consider playing in tournaments



    Also, since you are 15yo it is safe for you to win said tournaments without damaging your long term development, since winning at an early age would be detrimental as mentioned above
  • propredicrpropredicr Members Posts: 274 ✭✭
    Adding my two cents, here. While I agree, current success cannot always accurately predict the future, winning is a great confidence builder.



    I’ve seen my kid gain, that little edge. He played in a recent National qualifier. They had lists of all past winners from the last decade and a half. Almost 100% of the kids who won when they were 10-12 yo, went on to D1 scholarships. Some are on the mini-tours, now, and trying to get to the bigs. Around 100 data points (4 girls/boys age divisions) over ~15 years with almost 100% accuracy of winning young and going on to D1 golf. Getting to the bigs is a pipedream for the majority, so, I define their success by getting that college degree, Even though, we all know the money we all spend to support our kids, would very likely fund their four years!😝






    CTgolf wrote:



    I'm 15 and shooting in the mid 70s. Do I still have a shot at college golf?




    In order to play in college you need to perform well in tournaments



    You say you are shooting mid 70s, so you are close to meeting the requirement of “shooting lower than 75 consistently” in order to consider playing in tournaments



    Also, since you are 15yo it is safe for you to win said tournaments without damaging your long term development, since winning at an early age would be detrimental as mentioned above
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,789 ✭✭
    edited Jun 17, 2018 #74
    CTgolf wrote:


    There have been other threads that mentioned that tournaments don't matter too much until juniors are playing multi-day events for Junior Golf Scoreboard ranking or AJGA stars. I am not debating this.



    But for considerations *beyond* rankings or tournament eligibility, how important is winning (or being very competitive) at an early age? At what age does it become important?



    I am thinking more along the lines of developing a winning mindset, dominant mentality, confidence, etc.




    The mental side of the game seems underappreciated and there isn't much literature about how to maximize it, much less how important it is in the overall development of a junior golfer.



    Thoughts?




    As soon as a child realizes he/she is IN a competition.



    *beyond* rankings or tournament eligibility,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LIFE is a competition.



    The earlier they learn that (a winning mindset) the better off they will be,,,,,,,,,,,, forget about golf,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for the rest of their lives.



    Note that being competitive asap should be developed right along with life skills as well vis-a-vis social skills, being fair and honest, etc. The sooner a child is imprinted with these important life skills the better.

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  • Maton12Maton12 SydneyMembers Posts: 32 ✭✭
    wildcatden wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    I guess in my original post I was assuming that a junior golfer had been participating in competitions along the way, and not getting a late start.



    But even among those who don't start competing until later, it seems like there is an age at which, if they haven't demonstrated the ability to compete at a high level, that it probably won't ever happen?



    It sounds like that age is probably post-puberty.




    Probably true that in 99.9999% of the cases that if they haven't demonstrated that ability that it won't happen. There are exceptions. Another is Greg Norman who started golf at age 15 (was taught by his mom who was a single digit handicap). Norman played rugby, cricket and aspired to be a pro surfer prior to golf. In other words, he was very athletic.








    Greg Norman also had plenty of missed opportunities in Majors - could the lack of early competitive golf been a contributing factor?
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,077 ✭✭
    Maton12 wrote:




    Greg Norman also had plenty of missed opportunities in Majors - could the lack of early competitive golf been a contributing factor?




    331 weeks at number one... come on mate.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 436 ✭✭
    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,077 ✭✭
    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    GW: You started playing golf when you were about 4 years old, but baseball was your biggest passion. It wasn’t until later when you started getting more serious about golf. Talk about your junior-golf journey.



    BK: “Before it was just going out with my brother and my parents, just hitting balls, kind of like a weekend fun thing, maybe go out a couple times during the week. But didn’t really get serious until I was like 15, when I realized I was pretty decent. I was actually telling some of the kids, I was like, man, I wasn’t that good. I had a lot of talent, I just couldn’t figure out how to get the ball in the hole and couldn’t figure out the right way to do it. I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. Two kids were laughing at me; I was recruited by three schools. They were like, what? I was like, no really, I was recruited by three and that was it. A couple of places I really wanted to go to and they were like, no. So it’s funny looking back at it. I was explaining to the kids, like it doesn’t really matter. It feels like a big deal at the time, when you’re getting recruited by colleges, but as long as you keep getting better and better, that’s what I kept telling them. Man, every day get better and that’s it.”

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members Posts: 896 ✭✭
    edited Jun 18, 2018 #79
    leezer99 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    GW: You started playing golf when you were about 4 years old, but baseball was your biggest passion. It wasn’t until later when you started getting more serious about golf. Talk about your junior-golf journey.



    BK: “Before it was just going out with my brother and my parents, just hitting balls, kind of like a weekend fun thing, maybe go out a couple times during the week. But didn’t really get serious until I was like 15, when I realized I was pretty decent. I was actually telling some of the kids, I was like, man, I wasn’t that good. I had a lot of talent, I just couldn’t figure out how to get the ball in the hole and couldn’t figure out the right way to do it. I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. Two kids were laughing at me; I was recruited by three schools. They were like, what? I was like, no really, I was recruited by three and that was it. A couple of places I really wanted to go to and they were like, no. So it’s funny looking back at it. I was explaining to the kids, like it doesn’t really matter. It feels like a big deal at the time, when you’re getting recruited by colleges, but as long as you keep getting better and better, that’s what I kept telling them. Man, every day get better and that’s it.”




    https://www.golfdige...n-brooks-koepka



    Golf Digest has a different story....LOL



    "In the most anti-self-promotional way imaginable, Koepka became a golfer because of his face. At 10, he was in the front seat when a car driven by a babysitter was hit at an intersection. Brooks’ nose and sinus cavity were fractured on the dashboard, and for the entire summer he couldn’t play any contact sports. As an alternative, he began spending his days at West Palm Beach’s public Okeeheelee Golf Course, where he played in a junior program, dominated early, and never looked back."
  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 436 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    GW: You started playing golf when you were about 4 years old, but baseball was your biggest passion. It wasn’t until later when you started getting more serious about golf. Talk about your junior-golf journey.



    BK: “Before it was just going out with my brother and my parents, just hitting balls, kind of like a weekend fun thing, maybe go out a couple times during the week. But didn’t really get serious until I was like 15, when I realized I was pretty decent. I was actually telling some of the kids, I was like, man, I wasn’t that good. I had a lot of talent, I just couldn’t figure out how to get the ball in the hole and couldn’t figure out the right way to do it. I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. Two kids were laughing at me; I was recruited by three schools. They were like, what? I was like, no really, I was recruited by three and that was it. A couple of places I really wanted to go to and they were like, no. So it’s funny looking back at it. I was explaining to the kids, like it doesn’t really matter. It feels like a big deal at the time, when you’re getting recruited by colleges, but as long as you keep getting better and better, that’s what I kept telling them. Man, every day get better and that’s it.”




    You can’t prove a counter factual, but IMHO I think playing more would have only helped; he just has amazing, God-given talent that is rare - doesn’t translate to kids who don’t have the natural raw ability



    Imagine how much better he could be now if he had played more earlier
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,108 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    GW: You started playing golf when you were about 4 years old, but baseball was your biggest passion. It wasn’t until later when you started getting more serious about golf. Talk about your junior-golf journey.



    BK: “Before it was just going out with my brother and my parents, just hitting balls, kind of like a weekend fun thing, maybe go out a couple times during the week. But didn’t really get serious until I was like 15, when I realized I was pretty decent. I was actually telling some of the kids, I was like, man, I wasn’t that good. I had a lot of talent, I just couldn’t figure out how to get the ball in the hole and couldn’t figure out the right way to do it. I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. Two kids were laughing at me; I was recruited by three schools. They were like, what? I was like, no really, I was recruited by three and that was it. A couple of places I really wanted to go to and they were like, no. So it’s funny looking back at it. I was explaining to the kids, like it doesn’t really matter. It feels like a big deal at the time, when you’re getting recruited by colleges, but as long as you keep getting better and better, that’s what I kept telling them. Man, every day get better and that’s it.”




    Nice.



    Brooks went to school and the only thing FSU paid for was books. My daughter attended a recruiting seminar where his mother was a speaker and told this story.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,911 ClubWRX
    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    C'mon. Isn't he more of an anomaly? I'm sure HH will prove me wrong......
  • maxamillian31maxamillian31 Members Posts: 26
    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    I don't think anyone is saying that playing and winning at a young age doesn't matter - just keep it in perspective for what it is and let kids do other things also.. Juniors shouldn't specialize in any single sport too early - while it may work for a few, most end up with burn out or injuries directly related to single sport specialization. Golf Week has a nice article with various viewpoints:

    https://golfweek.com/2016/02/28/multi-sport-athletes-opt-balance-amid-pressure-specialize-early/
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,077 ✭✭
    wildcatden wrote:

    leezer99 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    GW: You started playing golf when you were about 4 years old, but baseball was your biggest passion. It wasn’t until later when you started getting more serious about golf. Talk about your junior-golf journey.



    BK: “Before it was just going out with my brother and my parents, just hitting balls, kind of like a weekend fun thing, maybe go out a couple times during the week. But didn’t really get serious until I was like 15, when I realized I was pretty decent. I was actually telling some of the kids, I was like, man, I wasn’t that good. I had a lot of talent, I just couldn’t figure out how to get the ball in the hole and couldn’t figure out the right way to do it. I was kind of a late bloomer, I guess. Two kids were laughing at me; I was recruited by three schools. They were like, what? I was like, no really, I was recruited by three and that was it. A couple of places I really wanted to go to and they were like, no. So it’s funny looking back at it. I was explaining to the kids, like it doesn’t really matter. It feels like a big deal at the time, when you’re getting recruited by colleges, but as long as you keep getting better and better, that’s what I kept telling them. Man, every day get better and that’s it.”




    https://www.golfdige...n-brooks-koepka



    Golf Digest has a different story....LOL



    "In the most anti-self-promotional way imaginable, Koepka became a golfer because of his face. At 10, he was in the front seat when a car driven by a babysitter was hit at an intersection. Brooks’ nose and sinus cavity were fractured on the dashboard, and for the entire summer he couldn’t play any contact sports. As an alternative, he began spending his days at West Palm Beach’s public Okeeheelee Golf Course, where he played in a junior program, dominated early, and never looked back."




    Fake news. image/swoon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':swoon:' />



    Just kidding, I have no idea what's real anymore.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 436 ✭✭

    CTgolf wrote:


    I am sure Koepka’s win yesterday will only reinforce the now-popular belief that winning or even playing at a young age doesn’t matter




    I don't think anyone is saying that playing and winning at a young age doesn't matter - just keep it in perspective for what it is and let kids do other things also.. Juniors shouldn't specialize in any single sport too early - while it may work for a few, most end up with burn out or injuries directly related to single sport specialization. Golf Week has a nice article with various viewpoints:

    [url="https://golfweek.com/2016/02/28/multi-sport-athletes-opt-balance-amid-pressure-specialize-early/"]https://golfweek.com/2016/02/28/multi-sport-athletes-opt-balance-amid-pressure-specialize-early/[/url]




    Really good article - thx for posting
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,108 ✭✭
    I am finding that what is more important than winning is developing a good base through physical development that will promote success. This development is more long term and will help the mental side as it helps develop confidence. Every person is physically limited in some way to how they swing the club. A swing coach may not be able to figure those limitations out. A person with knowledge of bio-mechanics may be the most important person in the development of a golfer. Stability, Agility, and Mobility are more important to the success of a kid going forward than winning.
  • mx6262mx6262 Members Posts: 611
    Just after the Dr. slaps your a**. image/superman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':superman:' /> Or not..
  • golfer929golfer929 Members Posts: 231 ✭✭
    I don’t care what age you are, a win is a win. Doesn’t matter if you shoot 100, if you still win you’re the best there was and that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter to me if you shot 65 and lost, at the end of the day you didn’t get the job done.



    If you told your boss “Hey Boss man/woman, I didn’t get that contract we wanted, but I put in all the talking points and gave them the best graphs we had!” What do you think they would say..



    “If you ain’t first, you’re last!”
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,803 ✭✭
    golfer929 wrote:


    I don’t care what age you are, a win is a win. Doesn’t matter if you shoot 100, if you still win you’re the best there was and that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter to me if you shot 65 and lost, at the end of the day you didn’t get the job done.



    If you told your boss “Hey Boss man/woman, I didn’t get that contract we wanted, but I put in all the talking points and gave them the best graphs we had!” What do you think they would say..



    “If you ain’t first, you’re last!”




    Except it does matter. Shooting 65 to finish 2nd on the PGA Tour means a lot more than shooting 100 to win the 6th flight of the club championship. A second place finish in an AJGA event means ridiculously more than winning a local event shooting 100. You’re not the best there was, you were simply the biggest tadpole in the puddle. Which is way different than being the second largest shark in the ocean
  • golfer929golfer929 Members Posts: 231 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:

    golfer929 wrote:


    I don't care what age you are, a win is a win. Doesn't matter if you shoot 100, if you still win you're the best there was and that's all that matters. It doesn't matter to me if you shot 65 and lost, at the end of the day you didn't get the job done.



    If you told your boss "Hey Boss man/woman, I didn't get that contract we wanted, but I put in all the talking points and gave them the best graphs we had!" What do you think they would say..



    "If you ain't first, you're last!"




    Except it does matter. Shooting 65 to finish 2nd on the PGA Tour means a lot more than shooting 100 to win the 6th flight of the club championship. A second place finish in an AJGA event means ridiculously more than winning a local event shooting 100. You're not the best there was, you were simply the biggest tadpole in the puddle. Which is way different than being the second largest shark in the ocean




    I respect what you're saying ITeach, but if a student of yours goes out into an AJGA event and wins with an average score of 75, he still won the event on a big stage. On the PGA Tour if shoot 77 on the last day and still win the event you're a PGA Tour winner. The score is irrelevant, just go out and win.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,803 ✭✭
    golfer929 wrote:

    iteachgolf wrote:

    golfer929 wrote:


    I don't care what age you are, a win is a win. Doesn't matter if you shoot 100, if you still win you're the best there was and that's all that matters. It doesn't matter to me if you shot 65 and lost, at the end of the day you didn't get the job done.



    If you told your boss "Hey Boss man/woman, I didn't get that contract we wanted, but I put in all the talking points and gave them the best graphs we had!" What do you think they would say..



    "If you ain't first, you're last!"




    Except it does matter. Shooting 65 to finish 2nd on the PGA Tour means a lot more than shooting 100 to win the 6th flight of the club championship. A second place finish in an AJGA event means ridiculously more than winning a local event shooting 100. You're not the best there was, you were simply the biggest tadpole in the puddle. Which is way different than being the second largest shark in the ocean




    I respect what you're saying ITeach, but if a student of yours goes out into an AJGA event and wins with an average score of 75, he still won the event on a big stage. On the PGA Tour if shoot 77 on the last day and still win the event you're a PGA Tour winner. The score is irrelevant, just go out and win.




    75 average would never win an AJGA event. As players get better your simply not going to win that often when playing bigger events. My top girl and top boy are both +7 handicaps or better and near the top of their graduating class in ranking, and both maybe win 5% of the time. With fields as deep as they are it’s very hard to win events like the Wyndham, the Polo, the Western Junior, and US Junior or any AJGA invitational. **** its hard to win an FJT event here in Florida.
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