So, how good of a putter are you, really? (Loooong!)

Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭
Introduction: So, I think we accidentally derailed a perfectly good thread about getting to scratch/going low. Obee, Richie, and a host of others, often chime into those with some fantastic info! This thread, however, ended up getting pointed very much into the direction of putting. So, to allow that thread to go back to it's more natural course, and give everyone a home base to discuss putting, I wanted to start a putting-only discussion thread.



So, how good of a putter are you, really?



There seems to be a ton of back and forth about putting on here. Misconceptions, anecdotal evidence, and long-held beliefs that may or may not be true. One of the (may THE) most important thing that I teach in regards to improving at golf is Expectation Management. It is huge in all facets of our games, but perhaps nowhere is it as important as putting. The "finality" of a missed or made putt causes us to put a massive amount of expectation and pressure on each and every putt, which is exactly what we don't want to do! To putt as well as we possibly can, we want to approach each and every putt as if it is simply another putt that means exactly what every other putt we have ever hit means. We either miss or make, simple as that! But that isn't what we do, of course. We assign a level of importance to each putt that is often so far out of balance with the truth that we sabotage our own ability to putt as well as we can. And then, just to drive that point home, we go ahead and halfheartedly drain the 6'er for double because we don't care anymore. I suggest that we "don't care" much more often!



A quick anecdote, if I may, and this is backed up by hard facts & stats. I used to think I was a horrible lag putter, constantly comparing myself to the guys we see on TV. They are burning edges at 45' every Saturday and Sunday, so why wasn't I? Well, because obviously I am a horrible lag putter, right?!? So, I started to track my Strokes Gained for every single shot I hit on course a few years ago, thanks to a great spreadsheet from one of the members on here. And guess what I found?



Not only am I not a horrible lag putter, I was actually a very good lag putter! I'm just a tad worse (losing about 1/2 stroke per round) than tour average, from lag distance. What a revelation! But that isn't the best part of the story, oh no. The best part is what happened after I learned that amazing fact. Some of you might have already put together what that occurrence was, but if you haven't, here it is:



Once I knew that I was a very good lag putter, I became confident over lag putts, and I got even BETTER. That's right, having factual evidence allowed me to get out of my own way and reach even further towards my ultimate potential as a lag putter. Here are the numbers:



2016 - Putting from >30': -.43 strokes gained (lost) to tour average per round

2017 - Putting from >30': -.18 strokes gained (lost) to tour average per round

2018 - Putting from >30': -.13 strokes gained (lost) to tour average per round (Year to Date)



I improved my lag putting by .3 strokes per round simply by coming to the realization that I was already a very good lag putter!



The good news is that you can do this too. I have created a truncated version of the spreadsheet I use to track everything, so that it is smaller, simpler, and will do just putts. I want to offer it to everyone on here so that they can track their putting performance and see the truth. What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Where can you focus your practice to get the greatest ROI on your practice time (look REALLY hard at the Strokes Gained per Round by Distance to find this out)?



I've posted the Excel spreadsheet on Dropbox and this is the link:



https://www.dropbox....tting.xlsx?dl=0



My apologies if there is an issue with this, I am a novice at Dropbox. Please let me know what needs fixing and I'll take care of it!



Instructions on using the spreadsheet are included with the spreadsheet on the "How To" tab. Also, feel free to use this thread to ask questions about the sheet, about putting, and to discuss drills, routines, or whatever can help someone else putt better.



Let's become better putters together!
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Comments

  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Members Posts: 502 ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2018 #2
    What a timely thread. I have been in the "putting doldrums" for about 10 years with occasional bouts of the "yips".



    I am an accomplished golfer (75.5 years young) with a strong background of highly competitive experience (numerous successes as club pro at both sectional and national level; 13 PGA Tour/ Major Championship events; and 6 yrs of play on Senior PGA Tour (now Champions Tour) back in the mid 1990's.



    I no longer play competitive golf but enjoy "casual golf" with friends 3 to 4 times per week although I have had to take 2 significant breaks over the last 2 years due to health issues.



    I average about 14 GIR per round. Currently play to 1 handicap. Will equal or better age about 50% of time.



    I average about 34 putts per round with an average of 2 3 putts per round and can throw in a 4 putt or 2 over the course of a season.



    I am a decent lag putter getting the ball within 2 to 3 feet consistently (but leave most putts short). I struggle on the short ones and even have a hard time over putts of 12 to 14 inches. Even the ones that go in are "tentative".



    I am best on uphill left to right (I am right handed) and terrified of downhill right to left (really hate R to L, even uphill).



    I have tried any and all variations of putting grips and styles.



    A stroke that feels great on a 15 footer can feel almost impossible to execute on a 3 footer (not enough backswing to use momentum).



    I look forward to this thread providing lots of insights to putting issues.



    Bruce
  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2018 #3
    I guess it would make sense for me to go ahead and post my numbers, right? This is this year, approximately 8 rounds into the year:



    Total Putting

    Distance Total Shots PerShot PPR SG/R

    0-4 feet -1.15 116.00 -0.01 14.70 -0.15

    5-8 ft -2.54 24.00 -0.11 3.04 -0.32

    9-15 ft -5.97 22.00 -0.27 2.79 -0.76

    16-30 ft -3.37 43.00 -0.08 5.45 -0.43

    31-45 ft -0.64 7.00 -0.09 0.89 -0.08

    >46 ft -0.38 4.00 -0.10 0.51 -0.05



    Totals -14.05 216.00 -0.07 27.38 -1.78



    So, what do I see that needs work? As mentioned in my previous post, I don't need to practice lag putting, so I don't. There's really no more juice to be squeezed here, so to speak. I hit a few lag putts before a round to gauge the speed of the greens that day and that's it. I'm also pretty dog-gone good inside of 4', even with a smattering of missed 3' putts this year. I'll never stop practicing those, and neither should anyone who plays golf!



    But it's the middle distances are more "tickley." These are where line AND speed both need to be good/very good for the putt to have a chance to go in. I probably don't have the time to be as good as the guys on TV who get to practice these anytime they want, but I do want to continue to improve. So, to maximize my practice time, I practice what costs me the most strokes. I hit almost exclusively 9' - 15' putts on our practice green. I will practice the 5' - 8' ones inside on a practice station/simulated green, just to get the good vibes of watching them go in. But on the course, 9' - 15' putts tend to have some break to them, so those get practiced outside on a real green almost exclusively.



    And that's it. I currently practice 3' putts (clock drill), and 9' - 15' putts. Becoming the best putter that I can be from those two distances will lower my score more and faster than any other practice combination, so that's what I do.
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭
    Bruce,



    I'm so glad you dropped in! bladehunter, deadsolid......shank, you, and quite a few other GolfWRX members were exactly who I had in mind when I made this thread! I'd love to see RPJ III (hope you're all good, brother!), Obee, isaac, and more chime in here as well. I hope you get some good info from this thread and please track your putts for us. I would love to see your data, especially considering your competitive background!



    Dan Drake
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  • ItsjustagameItsjustagame Members Posts: 1,273 ✭✭
    Probably as good as I am going to get since I never practice.
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  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Members Posts: 502 ✭✭
    Note, corrected my age - 75.5, not 77.5
  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Members Posts: 502 ✭✭
    My last round (past Thursday) would be very typical. 14 GIR (1 par 4 took me 4 to get on). Score 3 over 75. Birdies on #1 - 6 ft and #7 - 2 inches. Only other 1 putt was 15' to save bogey on 17 (uphill L to R of course). Left 5' for par short on #3, missed from 4' for par on #16 (downhill RtoL - never had a chance), and missed from 3 ft to save par on 18. Week before, I shot a 1 under 71 with 17 GIR (am not counting any "fringies" either). Saved par on the green I missed, made 3 short range birdies, and only bogies were 2 three putts.
  • 596596 Lakeland, FLMembers Posts: 3,658 ✭✭
    I have not been playing long about 8 years. I"m 63 now. I'm a descent putter and have never practiced much at all. I average near 30 putts per round and have 24 as a low. I'm a total feel putter. My grip is the only constant. My setup varies by feel with every putt, break, grain, etc.



    This article helped me putt without much of a care. It was an article published years ago that was an explanation of a test performed prior to and after a PGA Tour event. A ramp was setup on a level 10 ft putt. 100 balls were rolled prior to the days play. Of the 100, like 98 of them went in the hole prior to play. After play with the same ramp, the same spot and the same 100 balls, only like 70 of them went in.



    How the heck can you expect to make a putt from 10 feet when basically a machine only made 70%. With the amount of play courses get you can't come close to your expectations even when making a perfect putt. From 10 feet with a PERFECT putt you are only going to make 70% of those perfect putts.



    Even a perfectly struck putt has a good chance of missing. Get over it. We are all gonna miss the short putts sooner or later. When it happens it happens. Just walk away without a concern. Besides, it was the greens fault not mine!
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,659 ClubWRX
    596 wrote:


    I have not been playing long about 8 years. I"m 63 now. I'm a descent putter and have never practiced much at all. I average near 30 putts per round and have 24 as a low. I'm a total feel putter. My grip is the only constant. My setup varies by feel with every putt, break, grain, etc.



    This article helped me putt without much of a care. It was an article published years ago that was an explanation of a test performed prior to and after a PGA Tour event. A ramp was setup on a level 10 ft putt. 100 balls were rolled prior to the days play. Of the 100, like 98 of them went in the hole prior to play. After play with the same ramp, the same spot and the same 100 balls, only like 70 of them went in.



    How the heck can you expect to make a putt from 10 feet when basically a machine only made 70%. With the amount of play courses get you can't come close to your expectations even when making a perfect putt. From 10 feet with a PERFECT putt you are only going to make 70% of those perfect putts.



    Even a perfectly struck putt has a good chance of missing. Get over it. We are all gonna miss the short putts sooner or later. When it happens it happens. Just walk away without a concern. Besides, it was the greens fault not mine!


    This brings up another point as well. When folks compare their strokes gained to the pros they are also comparing the greens they putt on to what the pros putt on. Unless you are very fortunate, the strokes gained potential due to the greens for the pros is substantially better. Who knows how much, realistically it could be a few tenths at least. This implies that getting anywhere close to pro statistics might mean you are already at their level and the greens you regularly putt on is the only thing holding you back.
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  • oikos1oikos1 Members Posts: 2,299 ✭✭

    596 wrote:


    I have not been playing long about 8 years. I"m 63 now. I'm a descent putter and have never practiced much at all. I average near 30 putts per round and have 24 as a low. I'm a total feel putter. My grip is the only constant. My setup varies by feel with every putt, break, grain, etc.



    This article helped me putt without much of a care. It was an article published years ago that was an explanation of a test performed prior to and after a PGA Tour event. A ramp was setup on a level 10 ft putt. 100 balls were rolled prior to the days play. Of the 100, like 98 of them went in the hole prior to play. After play with the same ramp, the same spot and the same 100 balls, only like 70 of them went in.



    How the heck can you expect to make a putt from 10 feet when basically a machine only made 70%. With the amount of play courses get you can't come close to your expectations even when making a perfect putt. From 10 feet with a PERFECT putt you are only going to make 70% of those perfect putts.



    Even a perfectly struck putt has a good chance of missing. Get over it. We are all gonna miss the short putts sooner or later. When it happens it happens. Just walk away without a concern. Besides, it was the greens fault not mine!


    This brings up another point as well. When folks compare their strokes gained to the pros they are also comparing the greens they putt on to what the pros putt on. Unless you are very fortunate, the strokes gained potential due to the greens for the pros is substantially better. Who knows how much, realistically it could be a few tenths at least. This implies that getting anywhere close to pro statistics might mean you are already at their level and the greens you regularly putt on is the only thing holding you back.


    Maybe. However, pro is going to be as good or better than am on same green almost anywhere unless it is a well known course by the am.
  • finleysgfinleysg MinnesotaMembers Posts: 1,242 ✭✭
    I have become a better putter by working harder at it -- not on the practice green, but during play. I am taking a few extra seconds to get a better read, and I work hard at being totally committed to that read. After the putt, I am evaluating the quality of the read, did I commit, and did I start the ball on my line. I let my unconscious brain worry about distance control, both before and after.



    My emotional approach to putting is much more productive, too. Before pulling the trigger, I literally go through two thoughts: 1) imagine and accept a miss, even on very short putts (very quickly - don't dwell on it), and 2) see the good putt and feel how good it will be to make it.



    The summary: have fun rolling the ball.



    My only practice is to use my Pelz trainer to ensure I can start putts on line, especially breaking putts, and to give my lizard brain reps at feeling distance control. 10 minutes max on any given practice session.



    I have been playing golf for almost 50 years. This is the first time in my life I have ever felt like a good putter. It's really fun.
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭

    596 wrote:


    I have not been playing long about 8 years. I"m 63 now. I'm a descent putter and have never practiced much at all. I average near 30 putts per round and have 24 as a low. I'm a total feel putter. My grip is the only constant. My setup varies by feel with every putt, break, grain, etc.



    This article helped me putt without much of a care. It was an article published years ago that was an explanation of a test performed prior to and after a PGA Tour event. A ramp was setup on a level 10 ft putt. 100 balls were rolled prior to the days play. Of the 100, like 98 of them went in the hole prior to play. After play with the same ramp, the same spot and the same 100 balls, only like 70 of them went in.



    How the heck can you expect to make a putt from 10 feet when basically a machine only made 70%. With the amount of play courses get you can't come close to your expectations even when making a perfect putt. From 10 feet with a PERFECT putt you are only going to make 70% of those perfect putts.



    Even a perfectly struck putt has a good chance of missing. Get over it. We are all gonna miss the short putts sooner or later. When it happens it happens. Just walk away without a concern. Besides, it was the greens fault not mine!


    This brings up another point as well. When folks compare their strokes gained to the pros they are also comparing the greens they putt on to what the pros putt on. Unless you are very fortunate, the strokes gained potential due to the greens for the pros is substantially better. Who knows how much, realistically it could be a few tenths at least. This implies that getting anywhere close to pro statistics might mean you are already at their level and the greens you regularly putt on is the only thing holding you back.




    Thinking,



    You are absolutely correct, thank you! As the quality of the green surface goes up, so does the number of putts made. Simply put, if you put an average golfer on greens rolling as pure as the ones on TV, they will become a better putter after a very short amount of adjustment time. Now, as speed goes up, so does the amount of 3 putts, but my stance is unchanged:



    There is nothing wrong with using the PGA Tour as a baseline and seeing how we stack up/close we can get/where we need to improve. Those guys are living statistical models on how to do exactly what we all are trying to do, namely shooting the lowest score possible. And, on the putting green, we have the greatest opportunity to match them, skill for skill, so why not use the data? Yes, they are better than most of us with a putter in hand, but so what? Do bodybuilders not use Arnold's workouts just because they aren't physically able to look like Arnold? Do theoretical physicists pack up their books and go home just because Stephen Hawking was smarter than them? Nobody should ever use Usain Bolt as a study on how to run faster because no one ever has before anyway, so why try, right?



    The PGA Tour players probably aren't the best putters in the world, but they do get to practice more than anyone else in the world, so they are very, very good. Let's use the tools we have at our disposal to improve, not debate over wether that data is useful or not.
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭
    finleysg wrote:


    I have become a better putter by working harder at it -- not on the practice green, but during play. I am taking a few extra seconds to get a better read, and I work hard at being totally committed to that read. After the putt, I am evaluating the quality of the read, did I commit, and did I start the ball on my line. I let my unconscious brain worry about distance control, both before and after.



    My emotional approach to putting is much more productive, too. Before pulling the trigger, I literally go through two thoughts: 1) imagine and accept a miss, even on very short putts (very quickly - don't dwell on it), and 2) see the good putt and feel how good it will be to make it.



    The summary: have fun rolling the ball.



    My only practice is to use my Pelz trainer to ensure I can start putts on line, especially breaking putts, and to give my lizard brain reps at feeling distance control. 10 minutes max on any given practice session.



    I have been playing golf for almost 50 years. This is the first time in my life I have ever felt like a good putter. It's really fun.




    This is beautiful to read! I also improved as a putter when I both complicated and simplified my putting routine, much like you. I take in more information and make certain that I process it, and then I dump it all and let the lizard brain take over!



    If you can throw a wadded up piece of paper into a trash can across the room, with your brain, hand, and arm all able to determine the weight and density of the wad, along with the ambient conditions, as well as distance AND direction (and often do it behind the back or as a hook shot or whatever!), there is no reason whatsoever that you can't putt a ball somewhere near the hole with reasonable speed from 20'!!!



    Thank you finley!
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  • 596596 Lakeland, FLMembers Posts: 3,658 ✭✭
    finleysg wrote:


    I have become a better putter by working harder at it -- not on the practice green, but during play. I am taking a few extra seconds to get a better read, and I work hard at being totally committed to that read. After the putt, I am evaluating the quality of the read, did I commit, and did I start the ball on my line. I let my unconscious brain worry about distance control, both before and after.



    My emotional approach to putting is much more productive, too. Before pulling the trigger, I literally go through two thoughts: 1) imagine and accept a miss, even on very short putts (very quickly - don't dwell on it), and 2) see the good putt and feel how good it will be to make it.



    The summary: have fun rolling the ball.



    My only practice is to use my Pelz trainer to ensure I can start putts on line, especially breaking putts, and to give my lizard brain reps at feeling distance control. 10 minutes max on any given practice session.



    I have been playing golf for almost 50 years. This is the first time in my life I have ever felt like a good putter. It's really fun.




    I agree. I will accept a miss as well as a made putt. You are going to miss short ones, just don't dwell on it.



    As for putting, its all feel. The only routine I have is my read and then align the lines I mark on the ball to that line. This eliminates 50% of the shot. The line is done and I don't worry whether or not it looks right or not. I've aligned it, trust it. Now the focus is 100% on distance.



    I don't think about the physical stroke at all as I putt by feel. Direction is done, setup is done, feel the putt, just get distance right, I'm good to go, accept the results of the best putt I could make at that time.
  • RobS14526RobS14526 Members Posts: 1,151 ✭✭
    blehnhard wrote:


    My last round (past Thursday) would be very typical. 14 GIR (1 par 4 took me 4 to get on). Score 3 over 75. Birdies on #1 - 6 ft and #7 - 2 inches. Only other 1 putt was 15' to save bogey on 17 (uphill L to R of course). Left 5' for par short on #3, missed from 4' for par on #16 (downhill RtoL - never had a chance), and missed from 3 ft to save par on 18. Week before, I shot a 1 under 71 with 17 GIR (am not counting any "fringies" either). Saved par on the green I missed, made 3 short range birdies, and only bogies were 2 three putts.




    Bruce,



    You being more comfortable on putts breaking L to R is the opposite of most right handed players. Out of curiosity, is your preference on full shots to see a fade?



    And yes, it’s tough to get putts and chips to the hole when you’re dreading short putts. My short putting has really fallen off lately as well.
  • golfing_penguingolfing_penguin Members Posts: 400 ✭✭
    To chime in with my numbers from 2015 and year to date:



    2015

    SGP: +0.599

    <6ft: 95.6%

    7-15ft: 40.4%

    16-24ft: 18.8%



    2016

    SGP: +0.442

    <6ft: 95.5%

    7-15ft: 36.2%

    16-24ft: 16.7%



    2017

    SGP: +0.746

    <6ft: 96.6%

    7-15ft: 44.5%

    16-24ft: 18.1%



    2018

    SGP: +0.654

    <6ft: 94.5%

    7-15ft: 48.5%

    16-24ft: 13.6%



    I echo the use of the Pelz Putting Tutor for start line and ingraining breaks with speed. The rest comes down to making holing putts a habit! Failure drills are great for that
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,156 ✭✭
    edited May 27, 2018 #17
    Dan Drake wrote:

    finleysg wrote:


    I have become a better putter by working harder at it -- not on the practice green, but during play. I am taking a few extra seconds to get a better read, and I work hard at being totally committed to that read. After the putt, I am evaluating the quality of the read, did I commit, and did I start the ball on my line. I let my unconscious brain worry about distance control, both before and after.



    My emotional approach to putting is much more productive, too. Before pulling the trigger, I literally go through two thoughts: 1) imagine and accept a miss, even on very short putts (very quickly - don't dwell on it), and 2) see the good putt and feel how good it will be to make it.



    The summary: have fun rolling the ball.



    My only practice is to use my Pelz trainer to ensure I can start putts on line, especially breaking putts, and to give my lizard brain reps at feeling distance control. 10 minutes max on any given practice session.



    I have been playing golf for almost 50 years. This is the first time in my life I have ever felt like a good putter. It's really fun.




    This is beautiful to read! I also improved as a putter when I both complicated and simplified my putting routine, much like you. I take in more information and make certain that I process it, and then I dump it all and let the lizard brain take over!



    If you can throw a wadded up piece of paper into a trash can across the room, with your brain, hand, and arm all able to determine the weight and density of the wad, along with the ambient conditions, as well as distance AND direction (and often do it behind the back or as a hook shot or whatever!), there is no reason whatsoever that you can't putt a ball somewhere near the hole with reasonable speed from 20'!!!



    Thank you finley!






    Interesting analogy.



    I paint ( among other things ) for a living. Intricate paint jobs with hand pulled stripes , graphics , lines .... airbrushed shadows etc. which requires what we call layering of masking materials . You may mask up 4 layers just to pull one layer off 30 seconds later after you’ve sprayed a certain color on a small spot. Anyway. This makes for quite a bit of paper waste. Which I have a recycle bin for. And Is usually across the booth from me. So I am pretty much a master at hitting this can from anywhere. Saves on the walking.



    Now question is. Does my habit of hitting it with my left hand mean anything to my right handed putting stroke ?



    I have used a conventional reverse overlap grip for a while and practice the one handed ( right hand ) stroke and release. But came from left hand low and never had to think release as it seemed to flow down the line naturally. Thoughts ?
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭


    Interesting analogy.



    I paint ( among other things ) for a living. Intricate paint jobs with hand pulled stripes , graphics , lines .... airbrushed shadows etc. which requires what we call layering of masking materials . You may mask up 4 layers just to pull one layer off 30 seconds later after you've sprayed a certain color on a small spot. Anyway. This makes for quite a bit of paper waste. Which I have a recycle bin for. And Is usually across the booth from me. So I am pretty much a master at hitting this can from anywhere. Saves on the walking.



    Now question is. Does my habit of hitting it with my left hand mean anything to my right handed putting stroke ?



    I have used a conventional reverse overlap grip for a while and practice the one handed ( right hand ) stroke and release. But came from left hand low and never had to think release as it seemed to flow down the line naturally. Thoughts ?




    BH,



    Great to have you join the thread! Now, to your question. No, I don't think that your left handed tosses are negatively affecting your putting. If anything, I would believe exactly the opposite. Training the opposite physical and mental sides is always a good thing when dealing with coordination and motor patterns, IMHO. I simply have trouble believe that symmetry (physical AND mental), athletically speaking, could ever be a bad thing.



    Right now, with where you are mentally about putting, I would highly suggest that you go back to whatever stroke and grip you have had the most success with in the somewhat recent past. Get as many variables, both actual and imagined, out of the way as best as possible. Break this thing down as far as you can so that you can build it back on a solid foundation.



    Oh, and track your putts for us to see. If you are shy (which I highly doubt) about putting your stats out there, just send them to me at first so I can see what you might want to work on. But if not, put them out there for the world to see. What better way to build in some accountability, lol!
    Epic Flash SZ 10.5° w/AD BB
    Epic Flash 15° w/Rogue Max
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭


    To chime in with my numbers from 2015 and year to date:



    2015

    SGP: +0.599

    <6ft: 95.6%

    7-15ft: 40.4%

    16-24ft: 18.8%



    2016

    SGP: +0.442

    <6ft: 95.5%

    7-15ft: 36.2%

    16-24ft: 16.7%



    2017

    SGP: +0.746

    <6ft: 96.6%

    7-15ft: 44.5%

    16-24ft: 18.1%



    2018

    SGP: +0.654

    <6ft: 94.5%

    7-15ft: 48.5%

    16-24ft: 13.6%



    I echo the use of the Pelz Putting Tutor for start line and ingraining breaks with speed. The rest comes down to making holing putts a habit! Failure drills are great for that




    I love it! The first person to post their stats up!



    Penguin, you are one heckuva putter, well done indeed.
    Epic Flash SZ 10.5° w/AD BB
    Epic Flash 15° w/Rogue Max
    X Forged UT 18° w/VS Proto 
    X Forged UT 21° w/PX
    Apex Pro '19 5-A w/PX
    PM Grind 2.0 54° W w/PX & PM Grind 1.0 61° w/DG
    Toulon Austin
    171831.png
  • golfing_penguingolfing_penguin Members Posts: 400 ✭✭
    Dan Drake wrote:



    To chime in with my numbers from 2015 and year to date:



    2015

    SGP: +0.599

    <6ft: 95.6%

    7-15ft: 40.4%

    16-24ft: 18.8%



    2016

    SGP: +0.442

    <6ft: 95.5%

    7-15ft: 36.2%

    16-24ft: 16.7%



    2017

    SGP: +0.746

    <6ft: 96.6%

    7-15ft: 44.5%

    16-24ft: 18.1%



    2018

    SGP: +0.654

    <6ft: 94.5%

    7-15ft: 48.5%

    16-24ft: 13.6%



    I echo the use of the Pelz Putting Tutor for start line and ingraining breaks with speed. The rest comes down to making holing putts a habit! Failure drills are great for that




    I love it! The first person to post their stats up!



    Penguin, you are one heckuva putter, well done indeed.




    Thank you! I just need to learn to hit my irons closer image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,156 ✭✭
    edited May 27, 2018 #21
    Dan Drake wrote:



    Interesting analogy.



    I paint ( among other things ) for a living. Intricate paint jobs with hand pulled stripes , graphics , lines .... airbrushed shadows etc. which requires what we call layering of masking materials . You may mask up 4 layers just to pull one layer off 30 seconds later after you've sprayed a certain color on a small spot. Anyway. This makes for quite a bit of paper waste. Which I have a recycle bin for. And Is usually across the booth from me. So I am pretty much a master at hitting this can from anywhere. Saves on the walking.



    Now question is. Does my habit of hitting it with my left hand mean anything to my right handed putting stroke ?



    I have used a conventional reverse overlap grip for a while and practice the one handed ( right hand ) stroke and release. But came from left hand low and never had to think release as it seemed to flow down the line naturally. Thoughts ?




    BH,



    Great to have you join the thread! Now, to your question. No, I don't think that your left handed tosses are negatively affecting your putting. If anything, I would believe exactly the opposite. Training the opposite physical and mental sides is always a good thing when dealing with coordination and motor patterns, IMHO. I simply have trouble believe that symmetry (physical AND mental), athletically speaking, could ever be a bad thing.



    Right now, with where you are mentally about putting, I would highly suggest that you go back to whatever stroke and grip you have had the most success with in the somewhat recent past. Get as many variables, both actual and imagined, out of the way as best as possible. Break this thing down as far as you can so that you can build it back on a solid foundation.



    Oh, and track your putts for us to see. If you are shy (which I highly doubt) about putting your stats out there, just send them to me at first so I can see what you might want to work on. But if not, put them out there for the world to see. What better way to build in some accountability, lol!






    will do .. Ive installed drop box and have been looking at the spread sheets... Its going to take me a while to figure out how to do this.. (where to imput what).. I have an admitted mental block with things like this. I see a big jumble of things and no clear path to what im supposed to be doing.. which is also a big part of my distrust of stats... I dont see clear patterns like most do. Ill study and get it eventually.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
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    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,156 ✭✭
    question ....what is this P25 or Pand any number under shot ?
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • Forged4everForged4ever To See A Man’s True Character, Spend 4+ Hours With Him on a Golf Course⛳️ The Burgh/Hdcp: My gene poolClubWRX Posts: 15,718 ClubWRX
    edited May 27, 2018 #23
    In answer to your question, I was an excellent putter under pressure~



    Stats??



    Yea, right, lmao😂😂



    Granted, this as from last year this time, it’s from 9’10”(don’t ask me why that distance but that’s what the tape said on the green where I dropped the balls) on a Dick’s putting green and I’m putting with an Answer style putter that I’d just pulled off of the rack, and fwiw, I’m putting one eyed and basically one handed as all my left arm/hand did was move with my right arm as I had and still have numbness, burning & tingling in my left hand and I believe that I grip and regrip following a burning episode in this video.



    The key is to get the putt off before the next episode, lolol



    ~



    As Dan and Jack said, and for me this has ALWAYS been THE most critical factor under pressure, it comes down to CONFIDENCE!!



    I’m not knocking stats at all and if you need stats to show you that you’re a excellent or exceptional putter, then get to tracking!!



    It’s just that when my confidence level was ingrained in my subconscious, and if you don’t have it there, you don’t have it, not under pressure at least, I was much much younger, and the only thing that we tracked was the friggin ball flight, lol😉



    Stay well gals & Gents🍻



    Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

    RP
    In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,156 ✭✭
    Brother Richard ! How are you doing ?!



    That was pretty impressive. And inspirational to boot !



    Don’t mean this anyway except as a compliment. But after seeing that I don’t have any excuse. Stats or no stats.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • Forged4everForged4ever To See A Man’s True Character, Spend 4+ Hours With Him on a Golf Course⛳️ The Burgh/Hdcp: My gene poolClubWRX Posts: 15,718 ClubWRX
    edited May 27, 2018 #25
    Dan Drake wrote:


    596 wrote:


    I have not been playing long about 8 years. I"m 63 now. I'm a descent putter and have never practiced much at all. I average near 30 putts per round and have 24 as a low. I'm a total feel putter. My grip is the only constant. My setup varies by feel with every putt, break, grain, etc.



    This article helped me putt without much of a care. It was an article published years ago that was an explanation of a test performed prior to and after a PGA Tour event. A ramp was setup on a level 10 ft putt. 100 balls were rolled prior to the days play. Of the 100, like 98 of them went in the hole prior to play. After play with the same ramp, the same spot and the same 100 balls, only like 70 of them went in.



    How the heck can you expect to make a putt from 10 feet when basically a machine only made 70%. With the amount of play courses get you can't come close to your expectations even when making a perfect putt. From 10 feet with a PERFECT putt you are only going to make 70% of those perfect putts.



    Even a perfectly struck putt has a good chance of missing. Get over it. We are all gonna miss the short putts sooner or later. When it happens it happens. Just walk away without a concern. Besides, it was the greens fault not mine!


    This brings up another point as well. When folks compare their strokes gained to the pros they are also comparing the greens they putt on to what the pros putt on. Unless you are very fortunate, the strokes gained potential due to the greens for the pros is substantially better. Who knows how much, realistically it could be a few tenths at least. This implies that getting anywhere close to pro statistics might mean you are already at their level and the greens you regularly putt on is the only thing holding you back.




    Thinking,



    You are absolutely correct, thank you! As the quality of the green surface goes up, so does the number of putts made. Simply put, if you put an average golfer on greens rolling as pure as the ones on TV, they will become a better putter after a very short amount of adjustment time. Now, as speed goes up, so does the amount of 3 putts, but my stance is unchanged:



    There is nothing wrong with using the PGA Tour as a baseline and seeing how we stack up/close we can get/where we need to improve. Those guys are living statistical models on how to do exactly what we all are trying to do, namely shooting the lowest score possible. And, on the putting green, we have the greatest opportunity to match them, skill for skill, so why not use the data? Yes, they are better than most of us with a putter in hand, but so what? Do bodybuilders not use Arnold's workouts just because they aren't physically able to look like Arnold? Do theoretical physicists pack up their books and go home just because Stephen Hawking was smarter than them? Nobody should ever use Usain Bolt as a study on how to run faster because no one ever has before anyway, so why try, right?



    The PGA Tour players probably aren't the best putters in the world, but they do get to practice more than anyone else in the world, so they are very, very good. Let's use the tools we have at our disposal to improve, not debate over wether that data is useful or not.
    I absolutely agree with you regarding using Tour averages on the green as a comparative yardstick because when I said that I do not use stats, in its literal sense this is not true because I have for decades, or as long as I can remember, as I first got the numbers from Pete, who in turn got them from Sam, and how accurate they were, who the **** knows, but if they were good enough for Sam & Pete, they were good enough for me to use on the practice greens from different distances.



    I understand all of the mitigating factors that make a literal comparison of me standing by myself on a green at 10’ up at the club nothing like a Pro standing at 10’ in the fourth round, 18th hole for all the marbles, or really on any hole during those for days.



    However what I drilled into my head was “33%-40%(that number rose over the years),” because that was the Tour average from the mid/late 90’s to when I left the game and whether it be on a practice green or in competition, that is the number that I putted to, or strived to, and I would not leave the practice green until I had run 10 consecutive sets at 40% or better.



    I’d putt 10 sets and have to average 4/10 across 100 putts. If I made 5-6/10 and then the next set, say 3/10, then I started over.



    I got this drill from Sam and used it at every distance that I practiced from.



    A few nights I finished up under the clubhouse lights and one night right before the WPa Inter-Club MP Tourney, I had been out there almost four friggin hours and you talk anout a grind but seriously, I wasn’t leaving till I’d completed this drill, and it consisted of way more than the 100 from 10’.



    So I finally finished up and I am putting my balls and putter into my bag when I hear this loving “hey *sshole, your dinner’s in the window,” lmao.😂😂😂



    It was my father, who with my Mother and Madison had just finished dinner, of which I was supposed to be the fourth, lolol



    At least they’d ordered me a burger and left it in the front at the biz office/entry window, lol.



    Whatever statistics that one uses are fine to use as a barometer and to shoot at, allowances and variables aside. We just used different stats for different measurements.



    I hope alls well Bro, you’re in my thoughts👊



    My Best,

    RP
    In the end, only three things matter~ <br /><br />How much that you loved...<br /><br />How mightily that you lived...<br /><br />How gracefully that you accepted both victory & defeat...<br /><br /><br /><br />GHIN: Beefeater 24
  • vsabrevsabre ClubWRX Posts: 222 ClubWRX
    Dan,

    Nice job on this. Practicing more than playing these days but was able to put todays round in the spreadsheet and very revealing with only that limited data. 37 putts and giving up just under 8 strokes gained total with most improvement needed from 5-8 feet is a helpful snapshot to focus practice. I'm sure it will even out a little with more data.



    Thanks!
    Trackman SS-97 GolfWrx SS-110


    Ping G400 LST X-Torsion Copper S
    Cobra King F7 Fujikura Pro 65 S 14.5* Weight Forward
    Ping I Blades 4-PW S300 + 1/2 Red Dot
    Mizuno TM7 Wedges 50, 54 and 58
    Scotty Cameron Golo 6
  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭


    question ....what is this P25 or Pand any number under shot ?




    That is the distance of the putt you take. "P" tells the spreadsheet where to find the data and the number tells the spreadsheet how long the putt was.
    Epic Flash SZ 10.5° w/AD BB
    Epic Flash 15° w/Rogue Max
    X Forged UT 18° w/VS Proto 
    X Forged UT 21° w/PX
    Apex Pro '19 5-A w/PX
    PM Grind 2.0 54° W w/PX & PM Grind 1.0 61° w/DG
    Toulon Austin
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  • DoppelgangerDoppelganger Members Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Was bad! Fitted my new putter, flatstickacademy.com, aimpoint express. Good at putting now image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,156 ✭✭
    Well. Here’s my stats from Saturday. Tells me what I knew. I need to putt better. Any chance you have a sheet for strokes gained that is for all other strokes ?
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Members Posts: 502 ✭✭
    RobS,



    For many years mostly a fader of the ball - especially off the tee and with fairway woods. Now I turn it both ways.



    Typical round yesterday - 4 over after 6 with 3 missed greens and 2 3 putts + 1 5' birdie. Played rest of the way in 3 under for 1 over 73. 15GIR and 34 total putts. Had 8 putts in the 10' to 15' range on last 12 holes, made 3 - the other 5 had no chance as they were all weak and short of the hole. Percentage of makes on those putts (37.5) is acceptable, but not giving the other 5 any chance is poor. Missed 4 putts inside of 5' on first 6 holes.



    Bruce
  • asimoneasimone Members Posts: 36
    How are you guys determining the distances of each putt. Im not sure I'd be that good at estimating it. Do you use GPS or walking them off or what? I've always wanted to keep track of my Strokes gained stats but I'm always afraid of holding up the group or being too concerned about stats or entering stuff into my phone that it messes me up even more.
    Driver: Titleist 917 D2
    3 Wood: Titleist 904 F
    Hybrid: 21 deg Cobra Baffler
    4i-PW: Titleist 718 AP2
    Wedges: Cleveland CG10 in 54 and 60 deg
    Putter: Odyssey White Steel #1

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