So, how good of a putter are you, really? (Loooong!)

13

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  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,498 ✭✭
    On a scale 1 10? About a 5. I basically suck pond scum.
    Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    BH,



    Thank you for putting that up for us to look at! Also, please don't let frustration seep in, at least not any more than it has. This is just a fact finding mission right now. There is some great stuff going on here! First off, you've played more than 18 holes and you have 1 putt over 30'! Wow, that is impressive ball striking! Second, you are a more than reasonable short putter, inside of 4'. That is great because it tells me you aren't yippy. Also, making it through a round with only 1 three putt is probably why your short putting looks so good, you didn't miss much from that distance, which is what usually causes three putts.



    So, we have drilled down where the meat is. For you, it is from 5'-15'. Well, congratulations, this is where we all tend to lose strokes to the big boys, if for no other reasons than our greens aren't as good as their greens, generally speaking. That said, if you feel that these holes have been representative of your normal putting, then I'm going to make some educated guesses about what we can do.



    1. Block practice 5'-8' putts like a madman. Set up a station in your office, garage, living room, wherever, and just roll 1,000's of 5+ foot putts in the hole. Build up new memories of these types of putts going in, because I am going to guess that you get over these putts with a very negative mindset.

    2. Random practice 15' putts all over the practice green. When I see numbers that we don't like from this distance, it is typically due to the fact that from this distance, we have to get everything pretty well correct. Read, speed, starting line, mindset. One ball, one putt, around and around the practice green, working on a good read and a good roll. 1' past the hole, not too much more than a few inches left or right. Again, we are kicking field goals here with the understanding that the 4' wide hole will get in the way of 20% of our putts if we just roll it through the uprights.



    And remember, you aren't alone here. Just like NB said, there are those of us out there (myself included) who have hugely divergent shot results from other parts of our game. Golf is a fickle game, but you hit the ball well enough to play at just about any level you choose!
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    Also, a recommendation for all of us putters: Watch more European Tour Golf!



    They use the Aimpoint tech, but they also shade in the entire area that a ball can travel and still have the opportunity to go it. Paul Hobart calls it Banana Putting, due to the shape of the shaded area, and it's a great way to look at "makable" putts. There are literally an massive number of speed and line combinations that can roll the ball into the hole. You just have to "fit" it in there and let what may happen, happen. Now, if you are missing the entire banana, then you have to find out why and fix that asap!
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  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Members Posts: 501 ✭✭
    edited Jun 4, 2018 #65
    Dan,



    Since you mentioned "yippy" above, what advice would you give to someone who is prone to same? I have been suffering for at least 10 years now. I have 2 versions - the "hard push" - left hand drives forward, and the "soft pull" - hands die and right hand flips putter face to left.



    At practice, I do not have issues, I can make a good strokes at good pace on short putts (5' and in). My stroke on the course has no resemblance to the practice green stroke. Very short back and "jabby" coming thru. This is true even for putts that I hole. I can finish my warm up on the putting green making half dozen putts 2' and in and then get on the 1st hole with an 18" putt and barely creep over the front edge. Even the short putts I make on course are many times not well hit putts.



    I average 2 3 putts per round mainly because I miss from inside of 4'. I average between 14 and 15 GIR and am inside 15' on at least 50% of the GIR. Seldom outside of 30'. I usually take 33 to 35 putts per round. 30 putts or less would be a once or twice a year thing for me.



    I have had to back off of 1' putts because I was struggling to move the putter back. Decent putting would put me under par for many rounds and great putting would get me in the mid 60's. Very frustrating to play well consistently from tee to green and get very little out of the round. I can go thru 3 or 4 different strokes or grip variations during a round searching for something that will work.



    [background=transparent]More practice and different types of practice do not seem to help[. I actually had a few weeks early this spring where the yips seemed to be held at bay - did not practice putting at all except to roll a few balls on the green with no target just to pick up feel for speed.[/background]



    Thanks,



    Bruce
  • NoTalentLeftyNoTalentLefty Members Posts: 3,498 ✭✭
    Dan Drake wrote:


    Also, a recommendation for all of us putters: Watch more European Tour Golf!



    They use the Aimpoint tech, but they also shade in the entire area that a ball can travel and still have the opportunity to go it. Paul Hobart calls it Banana Putting, due to the shape of the shaded area, and it's a great way to look at "makable" putts. There are literally an massive number of speed and line combinations that can roll the ball into the hole. You just have to "fit" it in there and let what may happen, happen. Now, if you are missing the entire banana, then you have to find out why and fix that asap!




    Things like more this makes putting terrifying for me. So true though.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 4, 2018 #67
    18 more holes in. Not sure how interested anyone is in my stats ..But im happy to post them in case someone is .... Looks like farther down the hole stat wise.. But ive turned the corner ... nearly every putt looked like it was headed in today ... 2 -3 putts but both were really long lags ( 25-30 ft) and i just lipped out the slippery 3 footer coming back. Made 2 birdies . one a slick 8 ft putt downhill and hooking 2ft... the other after a lipped out 12 foot eagle putt ... Finally feel comfortable over every putt. Looking forward to turning these red numbers Black !!
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    BH,



    That's great news on your confidence, keep it up! Keep imputing information and go ahead and use the different tabs on the bottom of the spreadsheet. I use them for different months of the year, but you could use them for different courses or different putters or whatever, then looking back at the graphs on the main tab and comparing to see how it all looks. For instance, I have found that I love putting on greens in the 10'5" - 11' speed. Any faster than that and I three putt a lot and any slower than that and I feel like I have to "whack" it to hard. Funny enough, Mark Sweeney, who invented Aimpoint, said on a podcast that the PGA Tour loves the greens at 11', because that's the speed where the most birdies are made!



    Practice your 5' putts, a lot. At home, at the office, at the course, wherever you can hit 100 in a row

    Practice your 15' putts, one ball, one at a time, full read and routine. Start scaring the hole with these

    (Don't be mad, but I have to say this) 25-30' aren't "really long lags" as you said. Those are regular old lags that you are trying to get to 2', make the tap in, and move on. We have to change your perception that those are difficult, because while they can be, they really should be routine pars for you *most of the time. Luckily you are such a good ball striker, you won't have a ton of these!



    Keep up the great work!
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  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers Posts: 3,018 ✭✭


    18 more holes in. Not sure how interested anyone is in my stats ..But im happy to post them in case someone is .... Looks like farther down the hole stat wise.. But ive turned the corner ... nearly every putt looked like it was headed in today ... 2 -3 putts but both were really long lags ( 25-30 ft) and i just lipped out the slippery 3 footer coming back. Made 2 birdies . one a slick 8 ft putt downhill and hooking 2ft... the other after a lipped out 12 foot eagle putt ... Finally feel comfortable over every putt. Looking forward to turning these red numbers Black !!




    Just to clarify - you've had only 8 putts outside of 15 feet in 3.5 rounds? That would be incredible. Unless you miss a lot of greens and have a good short game. Either, way, how are you determining the length of your putts? I only ask because I am notoriously bad at guesstimating that and wind up under significantly. You may be better than you think!
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,365 ✭✭
    edited Jun 7, 2018 #70
    I had one of my half-dozen or so best putting days ever today. SG app says half a stroke better tan Tour average and that’s with a sloppy 3-jack from 20 feet on the 11th hole. Made birdies from 7 feet and 27 feet (nine yards, paced that one off!) and a couple other long one-putts from 15 and 18 feet. Shortest putts missed were from 6 feet (two of them). Total of 99 feet made over 18 holes.



    My long term average is -3.9 SG:Putting vs Tour average so today’s +0.5 means the 80 I shot would have been 84 or 85 on a normal putting day. My normal breakdown is -1.9 from 1-6 feet, -1.6 from 7-21 feet and -0.3 from 22+ feet. Today those were -0.7, +0.3, +0.9 which means I was actually better at all phases, it wasn’t just a couple long ones dropping.
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  • BigEx44BigEx44 Members Posts: 277 ✭✭
    I was a horrible putter until I switched to sidesaddle putting. Now I consider myself to be a good to very good putter.

    I don't keep a lot of fancy putt stats, but my full swing hasn't changed much over the years - and I went from avg of 38 putts a round to low 30's.

    I'm am 100% confident I can start the ball on the line I intend - my issue is I struggle with reading greens. That's what really holds me back.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 7, 2018 #72
    Ty_Webb wrote:



    18 more holes in. Not sure how interested anyone is in my stats ..But im happy to post them in case someone is .... Looks like farther down the hole stat wise.. But ive turned the corner ... nearly every putt looked like it was headed in today ... 2 -3 putts but both were really long lags ( 25-30 ft) and i just lipped out the slippery 3 footer coming back. Made 2 birdies . one a slick 8 ft putt downhill and hooking 2ft... the other after a lipped out 12 foot eagle putt ... Finally feel comfortable over every putt. Looking forward to turning these red numbers Black !!




    Just to clarify - you've had only 8 putts outside of 15 feet in 3.5 rounds? That would be incredible. Unless you miss a lot of greens and have a good short game. Either, way, how are you determining the length of your putts? I only ask because I am notoriously bad at guesstimating that and wind up under significantly. You may be better than you think!




    Yep. I detest long putts. Lol. And as I’ve said in other threads I’m an extremely aggressive player on approach. I may lay back to a 6-7 iron from the tee of my Driver isn’t on for the day. But I’ll fire at almost any pin. I play shots on approach. I work the ball at will both ways and plenty of times play a less than full club to a back pin etc. And I miss plenty too. But my shortgame is the crown jewel of my game. I rarely hit a pitch , chip or bunker shot that ends up outside 15ft. So that’s how that happens.



    I play a game at home in the field .... I call it “ hit the bucket “. I’ll place a 5 gal bucket anywhere and then pace off a distance of choice and drop 50 balls. If I hit the bucket either on the fly or on 1 hop 5 times In 50 I’ll move to another spot ,slope and distance. I have several sand piles I hit out of to simulate bunker play. The lies on this practice spot are not tight , they are pasture level Bermuda , sometime thick as 6-10 inches . I enjoy this practice. And I’ll do it with All wedges. Not just a lob. When I get to the course. I can’t find a lie worse than what I practice off of. I also have targets at home from 50 75 100 and 125 yards to hit fullish wedges to . Since I work from the shop on the same property I hit balls nearly everyday of my life. ( blizzards , monsoon and mothers day are the exceptions lol).
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 9, 2018 #73
    so.. completely turned the corner here.... I shot even par 72 this morning with 2 doubles and a 3 putt bogey on 17...30 putts total. But nearly everyone had eyes for the hole.. I almost made a 38 foot bomb to boot... So much easier game when you can roll it without fear.





    The 1st double bogey came with 65 yard approach where i had a back pin which was 3 yards from water behind the green... I played for a muffled shot as it was a really bare lie off the fairway. well you guessed it .. I hit it perfectly and hit the back of the green and over into the pond... so really just hit the shot too good contact wise. No problem....



    2nd double was on 18... Got a little distracted on 16 when an unwanted spectator came out and watched...long story i wont go into but we have a guy with a black cloud who everyone hates to see coming .. Just kills the vibe.. so fast forward to 18.. I stripe a tee ball down the middle with a little cut and im left about 148 in and i just took an aggressive line and tugged a 9 iron ever so slightly into the pond left... was really 2 yards bad...



    the 3 putt on 17 was just a head scratcher... I hit my sand wedge to 8 ft below the hole... and just fell in love with the line and ran it 4 ft by... then lipped out the slick right to left 4 footer coming back .. really wasnt a misread or anything .. just bad luck.. turned a 69 with a double bogey on the front into even par in the last 2 holes.. But hey ..thats the game.. its 18 not 16 holes...



    Strokes gained continues to climb into the red though... Im not sure i understand that .. Is it lack of putts made at certain lengths ? or?
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,365 ✭✭
    I am not familiar with that spreadsheet but if I understanding the captions, look at your “SG/shot” numbers. At all but the inside 5 feet distance bucket you are about 1/4 stroke worse than the criterion. That is not awful but it’s pretty poor. For instance I am a mediocre putter and ny numbers are around -0.2 for medium length and -0.1 for long putts.



    This is not literally true but you could almost describe it colloquially as you only making about three quarters as many putts as a good player would from similar distances (except for inside 5 feet where you are OK).
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭


    I am not familiar with that spreadsheet but if I understanding the captions, look at your “SG/shot” numbers. At all but the inside 5 feet distance bucket you are about 1/4 stroke worse than the criterion. That is not awful but it’s pretty poor. For instance I am a mediocre putter and ny numbers are around -0.2 for medium length and -0.1 for long putts.



    This is not literally true but you could almost describe it colloquially as you only making about three quarters as many putts as a good player would from similar distances (except for inside 5 feet where you are OK).




    I was afraid that’s what it meant. lol. So what feels like a good round putting to me is actually still below average for my skill level. Well. I guess the bright side is I have more potential for improvement?! But it’s uncharted territory for me. I’m jot accustomed to actually making anything outside 8ft Or so.
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,365 ✭✭
    Don’t look for sympathy from me! I was 8.8 strokes worse today (36 putts with a steady diet of misses from 7,8,9,10 feet) today than yesterday (29 putts from longer average distances). How to turn 80 into 90 in one easy lesson...
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭


    Don’t look for sympathy from me! I was 8.8 strokes worse today (36 putts with a steady diet of misses from 7,8,9,10 feet) today than yesterday (29 putts from longer average distances). How to turn 80 into 90 in one easy lesson...




    Yep. It’s deffintey whack a mole. When I get one thing fixed something else falls off.
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  • Juan73Juan73 JuanTheGolfer Members Posts: 534 ✭✭
    edited Jun 9, 2018 #78
    Wondering about the practice plans for others who are trying to get better



    Here is my practice plan for this month – which covers 90 minutes every time I go out -- which is about 3 times a week.




    My practice is broken into thirds.



    The first third I work specifically on Technique. So I spend 30 minutes hitting putts off the end of my Pelz Putting Tutor. I do this at 3-4 distances from 20 feet into 5 feet. Each time I hit 10 balls with the objective of not disturbing the marbles on the end. I use the tightest setting.



    The second third I spend on distance control drill (s). This month I hit putts 10 putts from each of 30, 40, 50 and 60 feet away into a three foot circle around the hole. If I make all 10 from 30 feet I can move back to 40 feet. If not I stay at this distance until I make all 10 in a row. Then I move back to 40 feet. ONLY if I make all 10 from this distance can I move to 50 feet, if not, back to 30 feet. While is it mostly a distance control drill it also tests you green reading and ability to hit the ball on the line you want, so if you miss left or right outside the circle… it counts the same as being short of long.



    The last third I do the “Dottie Pepper” drill. I set up tees at 3, 5 and 7 feet from the hole. I have to make 3 putts in a row from 3 feet to move to 5 feet. If I make 3 putts in a row from 5 feet, I can move onto 7 feet. If not back to 3 feet. You have to make 9 consecutive putts (3, 5 and 7 feet) to successfully complete the drill. If I complete it, I set up the same way at another angle to the green.



    Here are three things I do that might be of value for some of you.
    • I change out the drills every month. This keeps my interest up!!
    • I have dedicated 12 golf balls specifically to putting. I use the same balls I play golf with … put a line on them, since I use the line. And only putt with these 12 balls. No range balls, no shag bag balls, no other brand of balls, ….
    • The other thing is that I wear either spikeless golf shoes or sneakers when I am practicing putting. This reduces wear and tear on the putting green.
  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    edited Jun 16, 2018 #79
    So, I got in 27 holes last weekend on our almost 100% recovered from aeration greens. Here were the stats:





    By Distance:

    Distance Total Shots Per Shot

    0-4 feet 0.38 21 0.02

    5-8 ft 0.14 5 0.03

    9-15 ft -0.88 6 -0.15

    16-30 ft -1.06 9 -0.12

    31-45 ft -0.26 5 -0.05

    >46 ft 0.00 0 #DIV/0!



    Total:

    Putt -1.12 46 -0.04





    ...and, that was with a miss from 5' that was the only putt on the 27 holes that was honestly deflected by an aeration hole, lol! So, what do these numbers tell me? Well, first thing is that my putting is continuing to improve (-1.6 for the year). Second, I'm currently putting well from short range, which is great, because that is where I had my issues during the early part of this year. To see that the work is paying off is very, very nice! Also, I and really happy with my lag putting right now.



    So, like everyone else here who isn't a world class putter, I lose some strokes from mid range. I need to get my 16-30' putts closer and hole just one more 9-15' putt every now and then. I feel like I am in a good enough spot now with my short putts to reallocate some practice time to 12'ers and start making more birdies!
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  • lukerguylukerguy Members Posts: 102 ✭✭
    I had 30 putts and 5 birdies in my last round... so I'm feeling pretty good about my putting... ask me next week and I'm sure it will be a different story:)



    One thing I notice about when I'm putting well is that I am READING the putts well and with confidence; there's no doubt.
  • Juan73Juan73 JuanTheGolfer Members Posts: 534 ✭✭
    edited Jun 16, 2018 #81
    How long should it take?? In the last few days I have read a lot of posts throughout GolfWRX suggesting putting drills.



    I read one where it was suggested to devote 5 minutes to putting and in that time you should seek to make 25 in a row from 3 feet and then from 4 feet.



    THAT is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!! If you make every putt that is 50 putts in 5 minutes or 10 a minute or one every 6 seconds!! Obviously this is NOT practicing to get better it is just exercising.



    When you develop your putting practice plan think about how long it take you to make a putt? For example, if you use your complete putting routine for a putt it might take 20 seconds. You have to determine this for yourself. So if it takes 20 seconds to make each putt, then you can only hit 3 putts in a minute. Then factor in having to get them out of the hole, set up again, etc. this plan allows you to determine the volume of putts you can hit in a specific time period. BTW, for you TW fans his putting routine takes 18 seconds.



    So... if you plan on MAKING 25 putts in a row from 3 feet. It will take you about 10-12 minutes IF you never miss one. Assuming you are practicing by using your full routine, otherwise you are NOT properly preparing for what you will be doing on the course when you play golf.



    In short allow 30 seconds for every putt, (which will include using your putting routine, setting up the putting station, getting the balls out of the hole, etc. etc.)
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 28, 2018 #82
    Here’s more stats after 2 more comp rounds. Still feel like I’m rolling every putt much bettter. But not really seeing results stats wise. 34 putts last round. 2 - 3 putts. But also holed a couple birdies and several 6 footers for par.



    Still haven’t holed a single putt over 7 feet in 117 holes. Lol. Anyway. Just data I guess.
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  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    BH,



    That is some outstanding data that you have put down "on paper." Now, you can get to work improving efficiently. Take a look at your SG/Rd. Simply put, you don't need to practice putts longer than 15'! FWIW, you are the same basic putter that I am from >15', even though we have a small-ish sample size. We have to get you scaring the hole from 15' and in, and leaving way more tap ins. These are the "hardest" putts to get good at, because IMHO, they require the most accurate combination of line and speed to be successful.



    For now, I highly recommend that you get with Juan and find some drills and practice routines focused on these types of putts. Personally, I would just practice the ever-loving heck out of 3' (or 4', if you prefer) putts and 12' putts, as everything else <=15' is within a reasonable approximation of these two distances.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 28, 2018 #84
    THANks. Just finished an hour on the putting green. Marked off two 15 footers each breakin about 8 inches opposite each other. Rolled 65 putts using my routine etc. made 1. I only 3 putted once as well. So wasn’t really leaving thn short or long. But very few that even sniffed the hole. Moved in to 4 ft. And just didn’t miss any after the read was established. What do you make of that? Lol. Stroke can’t be that bad . But I just have zero expectations of making anything over 7-8 ft.
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  • Juan73Juan73 JuanTheGolfer Members Posts: 534 ✭✭
    edited Jun 28, 2018 #85
    THANks. Just finished an hour on the putting green. Marked off two 15 footers each breakin about 8 inches opposite each other. Rolled 65 putts using my routine etc. made 1. I only 3 putted once as well. So wasn’t really leaving thn short or long. But very few that even sniffed the hole. Moved in to 4 ft. And just didn’t miss any after the read was established. What do you make of that? Lol. Stroke can’t be that bad . But I just have zero expectations of making anything over 7-8 ft.

    Edited by bladehunter, Today, 12:25 PM.



    Okay you are scaring me!! 1 out of 65. It seems you would have had the read by then. I will write more with specifics tomorrow as my computer seems to not like this website today... I say that since I wrote about 3 paragraphs of suggestions and they all just went away!! GRRRR...
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    Juan73 wrote:


    THANks. Just finished an hour on the putting green. Marked off two 15 footers each breakin about 8 inches opposite each other. Rolled 65 putts using my routine etc. made 1. I only 3 putted once as well. So wasn’t really leaving thn short or long. But very few that even sniffed the hole. Moved in to 4 ft. And just didn’t miss any after the read was established. What do you make of that? Lol. Stroke can’t be that bad . But I just have zero expectations of making anything over 7-8 ft.

    Edited by bladehunter, Today, 12:25 PM.



    Okay you are scaring me!! 1 out of 65. It seems you would have had the read by then. I will write more with specifics tomorrow as my computer seems to not like this website today... I say that since I wrote about 3 paragraphs of suggestions and they all just went away!! GRRRR...
    Juan73 wrote:


    THANks. Just finished an hour on the putting green. Marked off two 15 footers each breakin about 8 inches opposite each other. Rolled 65 putts using my routine etc. made 1. I only 3 putted once as well. So wasn’t really leaving thn short or long. But very few that even sniffed the hole. Moved in to 4 ft. And just didn’t miss any after the read was established. What do you make of that? Lol. Stroke can’t be that bad . But I just have zero expectations of making anything over 7-8 ft.

    Edited by bladehunter, Today, 12:25 PM.



    Okay you are scaring me!! 1 out of 65. It seems you would have had the read by then. I will write more with specifics tomorrow as my computer seems to not like this website today... I say that since I wrote about 3 paragraphs of suggestions and they all just went away!! GRRRR...
    Juan73 wrote:


    THANks. Just finished an hour on the putting green. Marked off two 15 footers each breakin about 8 inches opposite each other. Rolled 65 putts using my routine etc. made 1. I only 3 putted once as well. So wasn’t really leaving thn short or long. But very few that even sniffed the hole. Moved in to 4 ft. And just didn’t miss any after the read was established. What do you make of that? Lol. Stroke can’t be that bad . But I just have zero expectations of making anything over 7-8 ft.

    Edited by bladehunter, Today, 12:25 PM.



    Okay you are scaring me!! 1 out of 65. It seems you would have had the read by then. I will write more with specifics tomorrow as my computer seems to not like this website today... I say that since I wrote about 3 paragraphs of suggestions and they all just went away!! GRRRR...






    dead serious... i had the read..Just never have made many putts .... I truly think thats why i hit it so close and my pitching , bunker game is so consistent.. Ive never made putts... So i have to hit it close.. I literally can play a 425 yard par 4 and where plenty would think " just hit the center of the green and get out with par"..My brain says " hit it close so we get out with par"... I dont play approaches conservatively ever... all to avoid 3 putting ....this is likely where my bigger numbers come from too , when i miss....



    all that being said i feel good about my stroke and speed.... as in im confident standing over a putt.. confident i can get down in 2... lol but thats a step above where i was 2 months ago when i was confident id 3 putt half the greens i hit... I have never been confident i would make many.. And dont know how to get there without seeing some go in .



    The thing that kills me is that if i understand the numbers correctly im likely 2-4 strokes a round better if i just putted average ...That makes me around a plus 2 handicap if i could get to average.. pretty depressing
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  • Juan73Juan73 JuanTheGolfer Members Posts: 534 ✭✭
    edited Jun 29, 2018 #87
    SORRY THIS IS SO SMALL.... I do not know how to fix it



    Here are my thoughts as I break down what you are saying into the four parts of a putting, PLUS the mental part.



    Green Reading, Aiming the putter , Stroke and Distance Control are the four parts according to one instructor.



    Distance Control: You wrote that on the 15 footers you were consistently close – with no tendency to be either long or short. That is a good start. As anyone who is a good putter is good at distance control.



    So here is where I think something does not add up for me. You made only 1 out of 65 putts with an 8 inch break at 15 feet. You should be making at least 20% or 13 putts… and possibly more if you are hitting them from the same spot to the same target.



    There are TOO many possibilities at this point to offer you solid advice, so here is what I suggest you try next.



    Go out to the putting green with an Elevated String Line. Here is a link to an example, if you are not familiar with the elevated string line. https://www.youtube....h?v=4l3qNu54VJ8 If you do not own or do not want to buy something like this, get two tall pencils and about 20 feet of string. Look for a 15 foot straight putt. Then put one pencil in the ground 3 feet behind where you are going to start your putt and the other just behind the center of the hole. Make sure the line between these two pencils is taut. Now set up the ball directly under the line. When you hit the putt it should go under this line and stay under the line for the entire 15 feet… and drop into the hole. IF you can do this consistently then your stroke, and aim are pretty solid. While you may think you have chosen a straight putt, it may be off slightly, so just change your starting point. If the putt breaks left, more the starting point left until it is a straight putt, or course if it breaks right, move the starting point right..



    My hunch is this might be challenging for you. Anyways let me know how this goes. If you have any questions shoot me a PM and I will answer within the day.



    Looking forward into time… Now once you can putt the entire string line on that straight putt consistently, set up the same situation with a breaking putt. This time instead of the second pencil being centered behind the cup, place it to the right or left of the back of the cup, at the distance you think the putt Is going to break. In the example you shared, the pencil would be 8 inches to the right of the cup.



    As a side note: At 4 feet, you said once you had the read, you made the putt consistently. Well at 4 feet you can aim the putter incorrectly and still make a putt since the margin of error is so big. Or you can aim the putter correctly but have a clubface or path that is not aligned to the path the ball needs to take AND you can still make the putt. At 10 feet if your aim is off 1 degree, you will miss an absolutely straight putt. If you want to check this out go back to your high school geometry to check on how much you have to be off from a 10 foot or 15 foot putt to miss the hole. The answer is NOT a lot!!
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,009 ✭✭
    edited Jun 29, 2018 #88
    Juan73 wrote:


    SORRY THIS IS SO SMALL.... I do not know how to fix it



    Here are my thoughts as I break down what you are saying into the four parts of a putting, PLUS the mental part.



    Green Reading, Aiming the putter , Stroke and Distance Control are the four parts according to one instructor.



    Distance Control: You wrote that on the 15 footers you were consistently close – with no tendency to be either long or short. That is a good start. As anyone who is a good putter is good at distance control.



    So here is where I think something does not add up for me. You made only 1 out of 65 putts with an 8 inch break at 15 feet. You should be making at least 20% or 13 putts… and possibly more if you are hitting them from the same spot to the same target.



    There are TOO many possibilities at this point to offer you solid advice, so here is what I suggest you try next.



    Go out to the putting green with an Elevated String Line. Here is a link to an example, if you are not familiar with the elevated string line. [url=&quot; If you do not own or do not want to buy something like this, get two tall pencils and about 20 feet of string. Look for a 15 foot straight putt. Then put one pencil in the ground 3 feet behind where you are going to start your putt and the other just behind the center of the hole. Make sure the line between these two pencils is taut. Now set up the ball directly under the line. When you hit the putt it should go under this line and stay under the line for the entire 15 feet… and drop into the hole. IF you can do this consistently then your stroke, and aim are pretty solid. While you may think you have chosen a straight putt, it may be off slightly, so just change your starting point. If the putt breaks left, more the starting point left until it is a straight putt, or course if it breaks right, move the starting point right..



    My hunch is this might be challenging for you. Anyways let me know how this goes. If you have any questions shoot me a PM and I will answer within the day.



    Looking forward into time… Now once you can putt the entire string line on that straight putt consistently, set up the same situation with a breaking putt. This time instead of the second pencil being centered behind the cup, place it to the right or left of the back of the cup, at the distance you think the putt Is going to break. In the example you shared, the pencil would be 8 inches to the right of the cup.



    As a side note: At 4 feet, you said once you had the read, you made the putt consistently. Well at 4 feet you can aim the putter incorrectly and still make a putt since the margin of error is so big. Or you can aim the putter correctly but have a clubface or path that is not aligned to the path the ball needs to take AND you can still make the putt. At 10 feet if your aim is off 1 degree, you will miss an absolutely straight putt. If you want to check this out go back to your high school geometry to check on how much you have to be off from a 10 foot or 15 foot putt to miss the hole. The answer is NOT a lot!!




    Thank you. I will give this a try today.



    And for more info. I’m sure is my aim as well. I’m extremely left eye dominant righty. So I have trouble seeing he line at address. As in most days I cannot tell you where the face is aimed. Currently not using the line on the ball for more than 6/8 feet or so as it’s also very hard for me to decide on a line form that far back from behind the ball. I just don’t “ see” it. What I mean by that if from 2-8 ft or so I can actually see or imagine the line the ball will roll on. And I’m pretty accurate. Sometimes I miss that line. But a misread is pretty rare. After that it’s like I’m blind. So i try to putt by feel. If that makes any sense.its so bad that I’ve alwasy treated this length as just a lag putt. Really was shocked at what the make percentage was when I first read it. Can’t imagjne making 1 out of 5.
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    Ping G410 21 ADDI 105x 
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    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot

    ***F the **** ....50 degree GW and Spider X can kiss my **** ****
  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers Posts: 3,018 ✭✭

    Juan73 wrote:


    SORRY THIS IS SO SMALL.... I do not know how to fix it



    Here are my thoughts as I break down what you are saying into the four parts of a putting, PLUS the mental part.



    Green Reading, Aiming the putter , Stroke and Distance Control are the four parts according to one instructor.



    Distance Control: You wrote that on the 15 footers you were consistently close – with no tendency to be either long or short. That is a good start. As anyone who is a good putter is good at distance control.



    So here is where I think something does not add up for me. You made only 1 out of 65 putts with an 8 inch break at 15 feet. You should be making at least 20% or 13 putts… and possibly more if you are hitting them from the same spot to the same target.



    There are TOO many possibilities at this point to offer you solid advice, so here is what I suggest you try next.



    Go out to the putting green with an Elevated String Line. Here is a link to an example, if you are not familiar with the elevated string line. https://www.youtube....h?v=4l3qNu54VJ8 If you do not own or do not want to buy something like this, get two tall pencils and about 20 feet of string. Look for a 15 foot straight putt. Then put one pencil in the ground 3 feet behind where you are going to start your putt and the other just behind the center of the hole. Make sure the line between these two pencils is taut. Now set up the ball directly under the line. When you hit the putt it should go under this line and stay under the line for the entire 15 feet… and drop into the hole. IF you can do this consistently then your stroke, and aim are pretty solid. While you may think you have chosen a straight putt, it may be off slightly, so just change your starting point. If the putt breaks left, more the starting point left until it is a straight putt, or course if it breaks right, move the starting point right..



    My hunch is this might be challenging for you. Anyways let me know how this goes. If you have any questions shoot me a PM and I will answer within the day.



    Looking forward into time… Now once you can putt the entire string line on that straight putt consistently, set up the same situation with a breaking putt. This time instead of the second pencil being centered behind the cup, place it to the right or left of the back of the cup, at the distance you think the putt Is going to break. In the example you shared, the pencil would be 8 inches to the right of the cup.



    As a side note: At 4 feet, you said once you had the read, you made the putt consistently. Well at 4 feet you can aim the putter incorrectly and still make a putt since the margin of error is so big. Or you can aim the putter correctly but have a clubface or path that is not aligned to the path the ball needs to take AND you can still make the putt. At 10 feet if your aim is off 1 degree, you will miss an absolutely straight putt. If you want to check this out go back to your high school geometry to check on how much you have to be off from a 10 foot or 15 foot putt to miss the hole. The answer is NOT a lot!!




    Thank you. I will give this a try today.



    And for more info. I'm sure is my aim as well. I'm extremely left eye dominant righty. So I have trouble seeing he line at address. As in most days I cannot tell you where the face is aimed. Currently not using the line on the ball for more than 6/8 feet or so as it's also very hard for me to decide on a line form that far back from behind the ball. I just don't " see" it. What I mean by that if from 2-8 ft or so I can actually see or imagine the line the ball will roll on. And I'm pretty accurate. Sometimes I miss that line. But a misread is pretty rare. After that it's like I'm blind. So i try to putt by feel. If that makes any sense.its so bad that I've alwasy treated this length as just a lag putt. Really was shocked at what the make percentage was when I first read it. Can't imagjne making 1 out of 5.




    This is fascinating to me. 1 out of 65 is almost impossible to do without trying. Here is what I would do:



    Go to the putting green and find a 15' putt. Take two tees and go to the hole. Measure two putter heads from each side of the hole and put a tee in the ground to the side (based on where you're putting from). That will give you a window between the tees that is about 5 holes wide (or 20"). Now go back to your 15' putt spot and try to get the ball rolling about a foot by the hole and passing within the tees. If you can do that, just by the law of averages, you'll make about 20% of the putts you hit. On a 15' putt that's all you have to do is roll it close and sometimes it will go in. If you can't do that, then it's time to start thinking about why. Do you generally miss short or long? Left or right? Some combination of those? i.e. short and low together with long and high. Then let us know how that goes.



    And obviously do what Juan said too.
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  • psapitch13psapitch13 Members Posts: 388 ✭✭
    This spreadsheet might be the single best thing I've found on golfwrx. Thanks!
  • Dan DrakeDan Drake Members Posts: 1,987 ✭✭
    BH,



    I concur with Juan. From everything you are giving us, this just has to be aim/alignment/face at impact. Do the drill Juan mentioned and see what the results are. I have a hunch it will be difficult and we will have drilled down your issue to where we can attack it. Personally, I'm thinking three things here:



    1. Your putter is probably a very bad fit for your eye dominance and aim bias

    2. There *might be a stroke issue, but I have my doubts about this, especially for someone with your skill in other areas and distance control that you mentioned

    3. You really are a +2 and this issue is going to get sorted out really quickly, allowing you to crush your current playing goals and set bigger and better ones!



    Keep the "faith." Stories like yours (in this case your's specifically!) are why I started this thread, and I am genuinely excited to hear the story of the first round you play where you putt well and shoot a 65 (or better, lol)!!!
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