Advantage of playing a softer shaft?

I currently play Modus 105 stiff in my 765s. Love the feel and flight, but wondering if I'm missing something by not moving to regular flex.

My driver SS is low 90's ( Carry about 220) and play stiff in my driver, FW and 20,23, & 26* hybrids, which seems to work well for me accuracy wise. I've tried R flex in driver without success. Loss of directional control, mostly.

Carry my 7 iron 145-150, ss low to mid 80's, Like a mid flight.

Would i gain any distance with the irons if I went a flex down, considering I find a shaft that still feels tight through impact ?

Hope I'm being clear enough in my question....

Thanks

Great question. It was answered in 1968 by some British authors Alastair Cochran & John Stobbs in “The Search for the Perfect Swing”. At the time, their conclusion was that shaft flex had no significant influence on distance. However, I would guess that conclusion may not apply in this day & age of Titanium heads & graphite shafts.

Anecdotally, my swing speed is definitely well in the R range but I prefer X in my driver for control & accuracy reasons.

I'm thinking a softer shaft may load more consistently than one that's too stiff...

Softer feel, possibly more spin and more height.

Softer feel, possibly more spin and more height.

‘‘Tis is what I’ve experienced previously when I’ve experimented.

Problem is, I’m already a higher spin player, so I get moon balls with too soft a shaft.

I played Recoil 95 F3’s for a while with OK results, but would definitely struggle on windy days to control the flight. My understanding is that those shafts play as a strong regular flex, comparatively.

I found a heavier shaft took spin off the ball.

I’m under 100 mph and spin the ball to much as well.

You should play stiff in the Modus. They’re aren’t that stiff to begin with. I had success with the 120s.

Think of a shaft as a timing mechanism. Softer for smoother tempo.

Maybe higher launch

Maybe more spin

Softer feel

For some stiffer is more accurate

Slower swings will feel like they don’t have to work as hard. Shots will feel more solid.

Tempo is probably more important than speed but it’s really a combo. Also where does the shaft flex? Butt or tip?

I'm thinking a softer shaft may load more consistently than one that's too stiff...

The consistency of the loading is much more a function of the consistency of the swing, not the stiffness of the shaft. And the consistency of the swing (and how it might change for different shafts) is going to depend on how the player reacts to different loading feels. So if someone has a clear preference for a softer feel, then going softer might increase the consistency of the results. But if they have a preference for a stiffer shaft, going softer can make the consistency much worse.

I am a SENIOR senior and was wondering what shaft flex results in double soft stepping a regular R 300 Dynamic gold and what would flight characteristics be?

I am a SENIOR senior and was wondering what shaft flex results in double soft stepping a regular R 300 Dynamic gold and what would flight characteristics be?

1) (very) roughly 1/2 of a flex (not that that really means anything useful since there is no standard for flex).

2) Completely depends on your swing speed and how late the release, and if the change in feel has any impact on the swing. But typically for soft stepping (even x2) I would not normally expect any significant change in the flight characteristics if there was no change to the swing from the feel. If there was, it could do anything.

As a 'senior senior' - are you sure that's the best shaft weight for you - it's a pretty heavy shaft? Generally getting the right shaft weight is way more important than flex.

off topic

Couple of years ago I repeated a test that was executed earlier by Tom Wishon.

I put a #3 and #4 original Project X 6.0 in two wedges rap. 54 and 58. The original Px has a stiff tip.

On soft shots indoors, flightscope measured high spin rates. Something I would not expect on half shots. It felt good.

Outdoors it did not perform at all. Friends tested it too. The energy was lost and did not go into the shot.

In my shop I have a training aid which is a #5 iron with a pom shaft. Very bendable. It is nearly impossible to play a draw or hook with this club.

Ancient driver heads were small; missing the sweet spot effected the twist may be a little bit.

With modern driver heads I sense this effect is bigger - but I never have seen any objective measure

All this makes me believe the tip of the shaft has to be strong enough to transfer energy effectively and stable enough to resist twist.

Honestly I have no idea how long the tip should be.

Personal view

(As a rule of thumb) my guess (just a guess) is that the weight and the bending properties of the shaft should be related to the physical power (stress) input and the weight of the head.

The industry is still too much focused on chs. Since a couple of years also the types of acceleration to match the proper bending profile. However this information is not widespread and not a standard..

Hence choices are feel based and shaft questions arise all the time.

All this makes me believe the tip of the shaft has to be strong enough to transfer energy effectively and stable enough to resist twist.

Sorry but I would look for other explanations. The shaft has little to do directly at impact with the energy transfer from head to ball. It will effect the feel of impact from the perspective of the player, but that all comes from what happens after the ball has left the club. And even if the torques were significantly different (which I wouldn't assume), the resistance to twisting is only a potential issue if you don't get center face contact.

The shaft stiffness certainly has the potential to effect the way the club is delivered in to the ball (e.g. dynamic loft delivered or impact location on the face) - lots of different possibilities in that respect - so one or more of those reasons are more likely to blame for what you experienced.

OK but then what is the reason to create stable or stiff tip designs?

Not too long ago the industry chose for .350 tip driver shafts in stead of .335.

Is that only to influence the release pattern of the club?

OK but then what is the reason to create stable or stiff tip designs?

To control: feel, amount of dynamic loft added at impact, and maybe amount of shaft droop. e.g. the things that effect the delivery of the head into impact.

Not too long ago the industry chose for .350 tip driver shafts in stead of .335.

Is that only to influence the release pattern of the club?

As I understand it (from one of Tom's post - if memory serves), .350 is generally chosen over .335 for cost reasons. Bigger diameter doesn't need as much material to achieve a particular stiffness. That's why that size was more popular for mass produced stock proprietary shafts.

Earlier this year 3 researchers published a paper on the golf shaft's influence on clubhead ball impact.

I copied the abstract:

Abstract: A long-held assumption in golf research is that the driver-ball impact is accurately modelled as a collision between two free bodies, i.e., the clubhead is not attached to the shaft. The purpose of this work was to examine the validity of this assumption using multibody simulation

and motion capture technology. Ten elite golfers were recruited to participate in a motion capture experiment to validate a Rayleigh beam model of a flexible club. Using the six degree-of-freedom motion of the grip as an input to the model, the simulated shaft deflections showed good agreement

with the experiment. An impact model based on volumetric contact was integrated with the flexible club model and was used to compare the launch conditions of free-body and full-club impacts.

Analysis of the launch conditions revealed that the shaft creates a stiffening effect that resists clubhead rotation during contact, corresponding to an increase in ball speed and suppression of the gear-effect relative to free-body impacts. The results demonstrate that shaft dynamics cannot be treated as negligible when evaluating driver impact mechanics.

I don't suppose you have a link to the full paper?

Sure.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323151701_The_Golf_Shaft%27s_Influence_on_Clubhead-Ball_Impact_Dynamics

---> By no means I use this research to support my post #11.

Sure.

https://www.research...Impact_Dynamics

 

---> By no means I use this research to support my post #11.

No problem. Thanks.

This is a very interesting topic to me.

From what I have read, some golfers are not much affected by shaft flex, and some are. Sort of like ragweed! I happen to be highly affected by shaft flex, and when I was 59 I went to regular shafts and played some of the best golf of my life. In iron shafts, I do better with medium to heavier shafts with softer tips.

Give me a shaft that is too stiff and I am going to rush my transition and have bad results. Give me a light graphite iron shaft, and there isn’t enough weight to keep the club from releasing too fast. Bad results.

Interestingly, I have some hickory irons which I hit very consistently and very straight.

Your mileage will vary.

If the shaft is too light and too rigid it will negatively affect the swing imho.

It’s all about shaft weight not flex.

Better feel more forgiving and if loaded and unloaded properly greater distances

Softer feel, possibly more spin and more height.

‘‘Tis is what I’ve experienced previously when I’ve experimented.

Problem is, I’m already a higher spin player, so I get moon balls with too soft a shaft.

I played Recoil 95 F3’s for a while with OK results, but would definitely struggle on windy days to control the flight. My understanding is that those shafts play as a strong regular flex, comparatively.

I think it depends on the specs of the shaft. TTDG Regular flex has similar flight characteristics to the stiff flex. A lot of the current irons have such strong lofts that the manufacturers put a shaft in to help get the ball in the air. A low flex point gets the ball into the air. A higher flex point gives a lower ball flight.

There are so many shafts out there that you can get the right shaft for you in most any weight that you want. If you like a heavier club (static weight), you can find the correct flex for you. In saying flex, don't take that to mean the bend point of the shaft, which is something totally different and related more to ball flight . A senior flex is usually a lighter weight shaft than a regular flex, which is lighter than a stiff flex. For irons, there are so many different weights available that it can be mind boggling. I feel that what it comes down to is getting fit for your clubs. Most golf shops include this, to a certain degree, with a new set of irons. If you've ever seen a fitting cart, you will have seen many heads and shafts and there is a cart for the different manufacturers. I usually visit a Golf Headquarters where I live and they seem to focus on 4 or 5 manufactures. The different combinations are quickly made so that you can get into the right one that suits your game. The flight of the ball and what feels good to you can be determined a lot easier these days than in the past. With the launch monitors that the shops use, you can check club head speed, ball speed, spin rate, launch angle, carry distance and total distance. There are also other devices that will give you information about how you are loading your shaft and it's deflection during your swing. It's all a lot of information, but it's all there if it's important to you.

Sorry for the rambling.

A softer flex can "promote" a smoother swing in general....and most notably, a smoother transition from the top