Really unlucky this month! Deadbeat seller won't make good

First I lose my Leupold GX-4i because I trusted the Frogger company that they actually test their product and it can withstand normal bumpy cart rides on the course. Do not trust this product with your $500 rangefinder!

https://www.froggergolf.com/shop/latch-it/for-your-golf-cart/

After getting over the depression of having to face the reality that some golfer just one or two groups behind essentially stole my rangefinder, I venture into the BST.

I buy this used GX-4i...well because...it is in "phenomenal shape"

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1640372-leupold-gx-4i-dna-laser-range-finder/

I get the range finder and here is the view:

The field of view is all jagged on edge and the indicators are faded at edges. I changed to a new battery (knowing that would not be the issue) and it looks the same. I talked to Leupold and they say it has internal damage, not under warranty, but I can send it in to get an estimate on repair.

I've highlighted in yellow the areas that have issues.

I contact the seller, obviously this is not phenomenal condition, and he tells me I should clean the lens and change battery...no kidding...I did that. Now the seller has conveniently avoided PMs and logging onto golfwrx.

After many years of successful transactions on golfwrx bst, I guess the odds were going to catch up to me that I would get someone who has no morals.

Ripping off someone for $300! Really? Worth it?

Ouch! Yeah, not "phenomenal" by anyone's standards I would imagine. Seller should get an immediate ban for this non-sense, not to mention he had the nerve to sell that junk for $300.

File a claim w/PP ASAP and out this JABRONI!

- KC

That's phenomenally crappy.

May the sun shine upon you henceforth.

Perhaps the seller should have uploaded higher quality photos here, looks like an easy way to "hide" the damage.

 

File a claim w/PP ASAP and out this JABRONI!

 

+1

That's terrible. Betting he's spent the money already and he's hurting for cash so has nothing left to make you whole.

Get that PayPal claim started and they'll take care of it. Another one gets the block.

I am a glass half full sort of a guy. Looking at the bright side at least your seller didn't say "Mint"....

OP, others said it. I will just chime in and repeat it.

PP claim. Tell Flubber about this thread. Move on with life.

BTW, I got an AMAZING deal on a brand new Bushnell last year for $225. Patriot pack and some of the monies go to vets as I understand it. This scope is incredibly accurate, nice and durable and simple to use.

Keep the thread updated. And don't forget to invite Flubber on over. Given this whole situation (flubbed up dare I say) at least he has a nice and applicable handle on here.

Sorry you got hosed...

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

Sorry you got hosed...

 

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

He said they already told him no go. He can send it to them and get a quote for repair, which is unfortunate.

Sorry you got hosed...

 

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

 

He said they already told him no go. He can send it to them and get a quote for repair, which is unfortunate.

No way, and I mean ZERO chance I would pay $300 for a used range finder and then have to pay to ship it in followed by paying to have it repaired.

Naw. I think the simpler solution is always best. Get PP to takes sides (the OPs), setup a return, hit guy with neutral feedback at best and move on with life.

Would love for seller to chime in here and explain how this scope is even remotely "phenomenal". Compared to.....?

Sorry you got hosed...

 

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

 

He said they already told him no go. He can send it to them and get a quote for repair, which is unfortunate.

 

No way, and I mean ZERO chance I would pay $300 for a used range finder and then have to pay to ship it in followed by paying to have it repaired.

 

Naw. I think the simpler solution is always best. Get PP to takes sides (the OPs), setup a return, hit guy with neutral feedback at best and move on with life.

 

Would love for seller to chime in here and explain how this scope is even remotely "phenomenal". Compared to.....?

I agree. Unless Webster suddenly changed the definition of phenomenal to mean “sub par at best”

Sorry you got hosed...

 

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

 

He said they already told him no go. He can send it to them and get a quote for repair, which is unfortunate.

I missed that.

That is definitely not phenomenal!

First I lose my Leupold GX-4i because I trusted the Frogger company that they actually test their product and it can withstand normal bumpy cart rides on the course. Do not trust this product with your $500 rangefinder!

 

https://www.froggerg...your-golf-cart/

 

After getting over the depression of having to face the reality that some golfer just one or two groups behind essentially stole my rangefinder, I venture into the BST.

 

I buy this used GX-4i...well because...it is in "phenomenal shape"

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...r-range-finder/

 

I get the range finder and here is the view:

 

 

 

The field of view is all jagged on edge and the indicators are faded at edges. I changed to a new battery (knowing that would not be the issue) and it looks the same. I talked to Leupold and they say it has internal damage, not under warranty, but I can send it in to get an estimate on repair.

 

I've highlighted in yellow the areas that have issues.

 

I contact the seller, obviously this is not phenomenal condition, and he tells me I should clean the lens and change battery...no kidding...I did that. Now the seller has conveniently avoided PMs and logging onto golfwrx.

 

After many years of successful transactions on golfwrx bst, I guess the odds were going to catch up to me that I would get someone who has no morals.

 

Ripping off someone for $300! Really? Worth it?

Facts are important. Here are the facts:

Buyer states in his DND post that he lost his range finder because he used the Frogger range finder holder that could not "withstand normal bumpy cart rides on the course". It is a fair inference that Buyer lost his previous range finder because the Frogger holder dislodged from his cart as the result of a "bumpy cart ride".

Here are the relevant dates as they relate to the transaction in question:

5/21/2018 (Monday): Buyer contacts me. Asking no questions regarding the condition of the range finder. Buyer pays for range finder.

5/22/2018 (Tuesday): I shipped range finder to buyer.

5/24/2018 (Thursday): Buyer received range finder (I confirmed this with tracking number).

5/31/2018 (7 days after receiving the ranger finder): With no previous correspondence to me other than his 5/21 message, Buyer asks for refund because of alleged damage. He says that he will ship the product back to me only after I refund him the purchase price. To be clear, he received the unit on a Thursday, presumably had a chance to test it over the weekend, then didn't reach out to me until the following Thursday.

These are the pictures of the range finder in question before I shipped them (some of these photos were used in the original ad):

Buyer had two (2) complaints. His first complaint was that the outer circle "is not smooth, it is quite chipped". He sent me the picture of the display that he posted in his DND post. The outer edge appears to be jagged. I am unsure at this point if there is actual damage to the display or it is a merely a poorly shot photo of the display. Regardless, the range finder's display did not look like that when I shipped the unit to Buyer. I took religious care of that range finder. I didn't think the holster/case that the unit came with was secure enough so I actually always stored the unit in the felt valuables pocket of my golf bag.

Buyer had the range finder in his possession for 7 days with no complaints. In his DND post above, Buyer admits that he lost his previous range finder because he used a dubious range finder holder, it is not beyond reason that he used that same holder on the unit he bought from me, the holder jarred loose again and damage was caused to the range finder. It's curious that Buyer has not offered or posted any pictures of the surface condition of the range finder but only includes a picture of the display. Buyer blames Frogger (the maker of the range finder holder) and the blames me. Convenient.

Buyer's second complaint was "The indicators on the sides and the battery indicator are missing small sections". The battery indicator is in fact missing small sections because the battery is running low and needs to be replaced. I debated whether I should remove the existing battery and ship the unit without a battery or include the battery that was already in the unit. I chose to send the existing battery. The display should brighten upon inserting a fresh battery. The "LOS" indicator is not displayed on the photo that Buyer took because "LOS" is not displayed when the unit is recommending a club to hit. The "P" in Buyer's picture stands for "Pitching Wedge" so LOS doesn't appear.

http://www.criticalg...displays-cm.jpg

Nowhere in the ad did I state there was a money back guarantee. I am unaware of any return policy mandated by GolfWRX. Nor am I aware of any reasonable seller that would refund the purchase price before the unit was returned then hope a buyer would return the unit. Considering that the unit was undamaged when I sent it to Buyer and he had the unit in his exclusive possession for seven (7) days and the display is functioning normally, I do not think it is appropriate or warranted that I refund the purchase price.

Thanks.

The plot thickens!

Is it possible that the range finder was damaged during shipping? How was it packed?

By no means am I placing blame on the seller, it just seems like neither party is aware of when this damage took place. Or someone is lying.

Facts are important. Here are the facts:

 

Buyer states in his DND post that he lost his range finder because he used the Frogger range finder holder that could not "withstand normal bumpy cart rides on the course". It is a fair inference that Buyer lost his previous range finder because the Frogger holder dislodged from his cart as the result of a "bumpy cart ride".

 

Here are the relevant dates as they relate to the transaction in question:

 

5/21/2018 (Monday): Buyer contacts me. Asking no questions regarding the condition of the range finder. Buyer pays for range finder.

 

5/22/2018 (Tuesday): I shipped range finder to buyer.

 

5/24/2018 (Thursday): Buyer received range finder (I confirmed this with tracking number).

 

5/31/2018 (7 days after receiving the ranger finder): With no previous correspondence to me other than his 5/21 message, Buyer asks for refund because of alleged damage. He says that he will ship the product back to me only after I refund him the purchase price. To be clear, he received the unit on a Thursday, presumably had a chance to test it over the weekend, then didn't reach out to me until the following Thursday.

 

These are the pictures of the range finder in question before I shipped them (some of these photos were used in the original ad):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buyer had two (2) complaints. His first complaint was that the outer circle "is not smooth, it is quite chipped". He sent me the picture of the display that he posted in his DND post. The outer edge appears to be jagged. I am unsure at this point if there is actual damage to the display or it is a merely a poorly shot photo of the display. Regardless, the range finder's display did not look like that when I shipped the unit to Buyer. I took religious care of that range finder. I didn't think the holster/case that the unit came with was secure enough so I actually always stored the unit in the felt valuables pocket of my golf bag.

 

Buyer had the range finder in his possession for 7 days with no complaints. In his DND post above, Buyer admits that he lost his previous range finder because he used a dubious range finder holder, it is not beyond reason that he used that same holder on the unit he bought from me, the holder jarred loose again and damage was caused to the range finder. It's curious that Buyer has not offered or posted any pictures of the surface condition of the range finder but only includes a picture of the display. Buyer blames Frogger (the maker of the range finder holder) and the blames me. Convenient.

 

Buyer's second complaint was "The indicators on the sides and the battery indicator are missing small sections". The battery indicator is in fact missing small sections because the battery is running low and needs to be replaced. I debated whether I should remove the existing battery and ship the unit without a battery or include the battery that was already in the unit. I chose to send the existing battery. The display should brighten upon inserting a fresh battery. The "LOS" indicator is not displayed on the photo that Buyer took because "LOS" is not displayed when the unit is recommending a club to hit. The "P" in Buyer's picture stands for "Pitching Wedge" so LOS doesn't appear.

 

http://www.criticalg...displays-cm.jpg

 

 

Nowhere in the ad did I state there was a money back guarantee. I am unaware of any return policy mandated by GolfWRX. Nor am I aware of any reasonable seller that would refund the purchase price before the unit was returned then hope a buyer would return the unit. Considering that the unit was undamaged when I sent it to Buyer and he had the unit in his exclusive possession for seven (7) days and the display is functioning normally, I do not think it is appropriate or warranted that I refund the purchase price.

 

Thanks.

Unfortunately it’s not up to you to say if there’s a “money back guarantee” unless you specifically say and show what’s wrong with the item and put it “as is”. Not saying you’re right or wrong, but the burden of proof now lies in your hand to show that it wasn’t a damaged piece of crap when you sent it. You gave us pics of the unit but what about of the optics? Unfortunately this is kinda like an eBay situation where the seller may end up getting screwed if the buyer feels they didn’t get what they wanted.

Flubber, you cannot be bothered to reply to a PM for days, do not make any offer or negotiation, but you sure are quick to get on a thread and make pointless excuses when I finally start a thread. Do you want to make issue that I took too long to start a thread too?

Should I upload my United airline ticket and return to show I was out of town when the unit was in my possession for the 7 days you want to point out? I can do that. The unit sat in the box it was packed in on a shelf for 7 days.

And why would I use the Frogger product again after it already failed me? Should I link to my twitter post and Frogger's response from the day it happened that shows how unhappy I am with their product? Or you can search their twitter, you will find it.

My feedback and history is far greater than yours....of course I would return the unit upon refund. Why would I want to keep it? Why do you wait for a thread to even bring up this concern? But then again, why would I trust a seller to return the $ after I return the product when I have already been burned once? The same seller who doesn't even understand how optics work on a rangefinder and thinks it is a battery issue? Should I upload the receipt from purchasing a new battery as well?

The optics are damaged, that is obvious from the photo and clearly not "phenomenal". Thank you for posting a link to an image that shows what the optics should look like. Now anyone can compare to my photo which shows the battery indicator is not completely shown but the edges, are and the icon for the able does not appear in full. I can take some more photos if you like which will show the LOS indicator will also not be shown in full.

You did get one thing right, I did not PM you and ask about condition. That's called trust. When someone on Golfwrx uses the word "phenomenal" to describe their product, I take their word for it. It really wouldn't occur to me to question a fellow member that makes that kind of claim. It's not like a subjective condition rating 8/10, I think most people take phenomenal as pretty darn good, as in beyond question. My bad, I don't sit around paranoid that someone would be so desperate as to lurk on Golfwrx trying to scam $300.

You will either do the right thing or not. Karma has a way of making things right in the long run. But I take it you won't be doing the right thing considering you jump on here and start to hide behind golfwrx lack of mandated money back guarantee policy. Any ethical seller would offer a prompt refund if the item is not as described. It happens all of the time here, on Ebay, and elsewhere. I have no idea why you refuse other than possibly what another person here implied - you are just that desperate for money and your reputation is worth far less than $300. Your words are empty; let's see if your actions are any better.

I believe the buyer here. End of story give him his money back once you receive the rangefinder. Please close this thread

I believe the buyer here. End of story give him his money back once you receive the rangefinder. Please close this thread

If only you had given us your ruling earlier, we could have avoided this thread entirely.

I believe the buyer here. End of story give him his money back once you receive the rangefinder. Please close this thread

 

If only you had given us your ruling earlier, we could have avoided this thread entirely.

Maybe they should come to me before posting a thread. Tell me your side of the story and I’ll make a decision.

Sorry you got hosed...

 

On the upside, Leupold has the best customer service in the business, just call them, they will take care of you, even if you bought it used.

 

He said they already told him no go. He can send it to them and get a quote for repair, which is unfortunate.

 

No way, and I mean ZERO chance I would pay $300 for a used range finder and then have to pay to ship it in followed by paying to have it repaired.

 

Naw. I think the simpler solution is always best. Get PP to takes sides (the OPs), setup a return, hit guy with neutral feedback at best and move on with life.

 

Would love for seller to chime in here and explain how this scope is even remotely "phenomenal". Compared to.....?

 

I agree. Unless Webster suddenly changed the definition of phenomenal to mean sub par at best

In all fairness, a phenomenal round in golf would be sub-par.

Difficult to referee these kind of things.

It really depending on the integrity on both sides to make a judgement and no one had solid proof of the condition before the shipping and what happened after the receiving.

From the forensic point of view. If seller had taken detailed photos on each piece of the attachment ( hopefully they have individual id numbers on the attachments ) and the buyer had a chance to test it out immediately after receiving the item ( don't need to be on the golf course to test the function of the unit , right ? and I sure would test the unit upon opening the package ).

It looks like the attachment and the internal optic lens of the unit had been dropped to cause the damage. Whether it's during the shipping ( too late to claim the shipping damage after more than a week's time ). or seller did not disclose the condition of the unit, or the buyer had cause the damage while the unit is in his procession.

- why should the buyer ask question about the unit if it was disclosed as "phenomenal" by the seller ?

- why did the buyer took so long to claim the damage to the seller ?

And I could never understand the "no reply" from P.M. or email or phone calls. Ignoring the other party is, kind of admitting something was going on there, unless the circumstance explained why , how much time would it take to reply ? Once anyone put me on this no reply wagon, he will be on the banned list, and I had someone whom I knew and met did a no reply to me for a couple of days, and guess what ? He is banned from the friends list, for life.

Trust is not a virture in today's world. Unlike my father's time, a hand shake meant more than today's 300 page contract.

Difficult to referee these kind of things.

 

It really depending on the integrity on both sides to make a judgement and no one had solid proof of the condition before the shipping and what happened after the receiving.

From the forensic point of view. If seller had taken detailed photos on each piece of the attachment ( hopefully they have individual id numbers on the attachments ) and the buyer had a chance to test it out immediately after receiving the item ( don't need to be on the golf course to test the function of the unit , right ? and I sure would test the unit upon opening the package ).

 

It looks like the attachment and the internal optic lens of the unit had been dropped to cause the damage. Whether it's during the shipping ( too late to claim the shipping damage after more than a week's time ). or seller did not disclose the condition of the unit, or the buyer had cause the damage while the unit is in his procession.

- why should the buyer ask question about the unit if it was disclosed as "phenomenal" by the seller ?

- why did the buyer took so long to claim the damage to the seller ?

 

And I could never understand the "no reply" from P.M. or email or phone calls. Ignoring the other party is, kind of admitting something was going on there, unless the circumstance explained why , how much time would it take to reply ? Once anyone put me on this no reply wagon, he will be on the banned list, and I had someone whom I knew and met did a no reply to me for a couple of days, and guess what ? He is banned from the friends list, for life.

 

Trust is not a virture in today's world. Unlike my father's time, a hand shake meant more than today's 300 page contract.

Well said...

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

It's not "well said".

The 7 days I did not make an issue is not an issue. I was out of town. Here is my United receipt of travel. So, no I didn't take the range finder to bottle service and it got damaged among the fun.

The shipping address was my office where I can trust the mail room to securely hold onto the package while I was out. I left town before the package arrived, out 7 days, and on the first day back in the office I inspected.

It's funny people want to make issue with the 7 day gap, but no one looks at the original seller story that this rangefinder was apparently lost or misplaced for sometime by the seller, then found after he bought a new one. How long was it lost? What happened during that time? Who loses a rangefinder anyway for so long as to go buy a new one?

Here are some more pics that show how the display around the edges is an issue. I just took these this morning.

Hey flubber, I really don't need a defective rangefinder, stand behind your word. Post on here you will issue a full refund upon receipt of the rangefinder and I will send it to you first. Not so smart of me to send it first, but why not, it's not like I have not already lost out.

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

Flubber only communicates through this thread...I sent a PM asking for a refund, and he replies three days later with change the battery. I change the battery, still the same issues, and send another PM asking for refund and no reply for two days so I started this thread per the moderator's instructions.

You need to file a PayPal claiming item is defective. PayPal will tell you to ship the item back. Provide the tracking information to PayPal and you will receive full refund. It’s not seller refund first then ship, it’s ship back to seller then receive a refund.

Forget about flubber’s communication or lack thereof. Go through PayPal.

well now that you guys have some kind of communication going on, maybe you should handle this issue on your own. these disputes get out of hand really quck with the "holier than thou" members that chime in regularly.

 

Flubber only communicates through this thread...I sent a PM asking for a refund, and he replies three days later with change the battery. I change the battery, still the same issues, and send another PM asking for refund and no reply for two days so I started this thread per the moderator's instructions.

That’s how refunds work. You send it back once the seller gets it he has to refund or ou can contact PayPal and once they see the item was delivered back to seller they issue immediate refund.