MI State High School Tournament - Controversy

spartan6910spartan6910 Go Green, Go White!San DiegoMembers Posts: 381 ✭✭
edited Jun 9, 2018 in Juniors/College Golf Talk #1
Two teams seem to have....ahem....exceeded expectations in their regional tournament en route to a showing in the state final tournament. I'll let the article and the final standings do the talking. All I'll say is....wow.



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Comments

  • Bob CatBob Cat Golfopath Members Posts: 1,592 ✭✭
    Something's amiss. Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.



    This is not the last we'll hear on this.



    Judgement reserved.
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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 290 ✭✭
    Bob Cat wrote:


    Something's amiss. Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.



    This is not the last we'll hear on this.



    Judgement reserved.




    If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?
  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,429 ✭✭
    Cheating in junior golf...who would have thought? lol
  • kgeisler13kgeisler13 ClubWRX Posts: 339 ClubWRX
    Pretty sure the two schools that "cheated" practice together and share the same home course.
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  • walpywalpy Members Posts: 357 ClubWRX
    Wow.... those scores in the tournament proper. Not a team that could drop -4
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  • LoganHeckyLoganHecky St. Joseph, MIMembers Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2018 #7
    BertGA wrote:

    Bob Cat wrote:


    Something's amiss. Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.



    This is not the last we'll hear on this.



    Judgement reserved.




    If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?




    The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,098 ✭✭
    LoganHecky wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Bob Cat wrote:


    Something's amiss. Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.



    This is not the last we'll hear on this.



    Judgement reserved.




    If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?




    The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.




    Not unlikely at all in High School golf. If there are 5 teams in the tournament, two teams will be paired together as two's in each group. There are districts in Florida that only have 4 teams. They pair them as two and two.
  • irvtrainirvtrain Denver, COMembers Posts: 1,014 ✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2018 #9
    Pretty obvious once you see their tournament scores they cheated in the qualifiers. The question is, why post such low scores in the qualifier? Making it so obvious. Why not +10 or something and not -4?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,778 ✭✭

    LoganHecky wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Bob Cat wrote:


    Something's amiss. Surely there were parents keeping the scores of their kids and opponents.



    This is not the last we'll hear on this.



    Judgement reserved.




    If both teams conspired to “improve” each other’s scores, maybe the players were able to act alone. Do parents really walk the course and keep score, especially for these two teams that likely didn’t win a single tourney?




    The only way that they would have been able to do this is if their schools were the only ones in their group, which is unlikely. Typically there is at least 3 players per group and they are all from different schools.




    Not unlikely at all in High School golf. If there are 5 teams in the tournament, two teams will be paired together as two's in each group. There are districts in Florida that only have 4 teams. They pair them as two and two.




    Article clearly states they played in 3 some with the third team also shooting lower than their average.
  • nuthin but a hackernuthin but a hacker Certified Hacker Members Posts: 2,561 ✭✭
    We saw some cheating in middle school golf but the cheating at the high school level has been worse. Some kids/parents will do anything to win.
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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 290 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:


    Hurricane Junior Golf Tour doing the same: Live Scoring App




    Wow...that was an inspirational video. Seems like anyone can be their own Michael Bay with some drone footage these days.





    Just...wow. Makes me wanna get a fake birth cert and sign up for the HJGT.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,098 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:


    Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.



    https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27




    I don't see how this will help cheating. Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.
  • jj9000jj9000 ClubWRX Posts: 2,638 ClubWRX
    I just shot a -3 through 18.



    ...and I didn't even leave the couch.
  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 290 ✭✭

    BertGA wrote:


    Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.



    https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27




    I don't see how this will help cheating. Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.




    Perhaps the live scoring allows everyone in the group to monitor the score throughout the round, and challenge. It would also allow officials to compare current scores to historical, maybe that would prompt them to head out on the course and actually witness the history being made.



    Either way, I'm sure the app is but one part of a strategy they are hopefully using to prevent another occurrence. They got a huge amount of publicity for a state HS championship. And it was all negative.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,098 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:


    BertGA wrote:


    Looks like Michigan is taking this seriously. Pushing out a new app to monitor cheating in HS tournies.



    https://www.golf.com...tent=2018-12-27




    I don't see how this will help cheating. Especially if you are the one entering the live scoring results.




    Perhaps the live scoring allows everyone in the group to monitor the score throughout the round, and challenge. It would also allow officials to compare current scores to historical, maybe that would prompt them to head out on the course and actually witness the history being made.



    Either way, I'm sure the app is but one part of a strategy they are hopefully using to prevent another occurrence. They got a huge amount of publicity for a state HS championship. And it was all negative.




    Everyone should be monitoring the scoring of their own groups. No one can challenge someones score. Do you really think that a tournament official has access to prior scores? Officials aren't watching scoreboards.
  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 290 ✭✭
    I understand you should monitor scores of the group, but I don’t know what someone is marking on their scorecard until we get to the table. If it’s live updates, I can keep track of what I believe someone’s score is, as well as view what they recorded, throughout the round.



    And if I’m a spectator, I can monitor as well. Sometimes the appearance of more transparency can deter cheating or crime. If I am a shoplifter and I see cameras in the ceiling, I’m probably less likely to steal. Doesn’t matter that I don’t know if they are even recording.



    I don’t really have any more insight than you, I’m just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they have determined, somehow, that this will help prevent the actions that happened. But I don’t really know that.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,098 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:


    I understand you should monitor scores of the group, but I don't know what someone is marking on their scorecard until we get to the table. If it's live updates, I can keep track of what I believe someone's score is, as well as view what they recorded, throughout the round.



    And if I'm a spectator, I can monitor as well. Sometimes the appearance of more transparency can deter cheating or crime. If I am a shoplifter and I see cameras in the ceiling, I'm probably less likely to steal. Doesn't matter that I don't know if they are even recording.



    I don't really have any more insight than you, I'm just giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they have determined, somehow, that this will help prevent the actions that happened. But I don't really know that.




    The problem with live updates is if they mark the scores incorrectly. FHSAA does live scoring in Florida through Shotstat. Two girls had hole in ones recorded for 18 holes until the end of the round. It even says on the web page that the scores are not official. Even with live scoring there is no real way to tell.
  • nuthin but a hackernuthin but a hacker Certified Hacker Members Posts: 2,561 ✭✭
    Live scoring allows spectators (parents) to monitor scores and catch mistakes. The scorer at a tournament this summer swapped my daughter's score with another girl in the group. My wife was watching the live scores and notified someone and the scores were fixed quickly.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,098 ✭✭
    Live scoring allows spectators (parents) to monitor scores and catch mistakes. The scorer at a tournament this summer swapped my daughter's score with another girl in the group. My wife was watching the live scores and notified someone and the scores were fixed quickly.




    But live scores are only for the parents. They aren’t the official scores.



    It is kind of like a Scoreboard at a High School Basketball game. The scoreboard is only for the parents. The only score that counts is the official book which no one can see. If it has a team in the bonus it doesn’t matter that the scoreboard has the team for 0 personal fouls.
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 74 ✭✭

    Live scoring allows spectators (parents) to monitor scores and catch mistakes. The scorer at a tournament this summer swapped my daughter's score with another girl in the group. My wife was watching the live scores and notified someone and the scores were fixed quickly.




    But live scores are only for the parents. They aren’t the official scores.



    It is kind of like a Scoreboard at a High School Basketball game. The scoreboard is only for the parents. The only score that counts is the official book which no one can see. If it has a team in the bonus it doesn’t matter that the scoreboard has the team for 0 personal fouls.




    You bring back old bad memories. :-)



    All the parents in young basketball that never wanted to do the clock. Then sit across the gym and yell "Clock" when you don't start it.



    Old memories. I always grabbed the book. :-)
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  • spartan6910spartan6910 Go Green, Go White! San DiegoMembers Posts: 381 ✭✭
    edited Jan 22, 2019 2:31am #23
    Didn't think this thread would still be going 7 months later haha, but... I think the live scoring app is just a precautionary measure. Scenario:



    Let's say that they had this live scoring app at that regional. You want to tell me that if a group of coaches saw those teams lighting it up that there wouldn't quickly be more eyeballs on those groups? "Official" score or not, if a coach saw that a team that normally averaged +20 was shooting -5, you bet your a** he's gonna be over there to see what's going on. and maybe once more eyes are on the kids, the inclination to shave some shots goes away out of fear.



    I like the move. My men's club uses live scoring thru Golf Genius and it works very well. It's pretty nice to see where you sit in real time.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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