Top Courses that disappointed

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  • Charles.eichmanCharles.eichman ClubWRX Posts: 347 ClubWRX
    Pine Valley was one of the few courses that didnt let me down. Everytime i play there it still shocks me how fun of a course it is and how immaculate it is.
  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I've played a few of the top 10 or 20 in the world and my thoughts on those are:



    Pine Valley I went in expecting a lot and I was blown away

    NGLA I went in expecting a lot and I was blown away

    Haven't played Shinnecock, but I went for the US Open this year and walked it and that place is incredible

    Merion I went in not really knowing what to expect and I was not blown away. I played PV and Merion on the same trip about 20 years ago and I remember every hole at PV in vivid detail, but I struggle to remember many of the holes at Merion despite having watched four rounds of the US Open there in 2013(?) when Rose won.



    So Merion is my answer. I'm guessing I'll be on my own over here. In fairness they had punched the greens the day before I played it, so that may have tarnished my opinion somewhat.
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  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left ClubWRX Posts: 3,306 ClubWRX
    no shades intended but I know a lot of people think copperhead is over-rated and then I play with them. They don't appreciate the shots you need to make and I feel some of these top courses require some abilities of shot making.
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  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!



    I am not surprised at Pinehurst No. 2 being mentioned as the variations between holes are much more subtle - it has much fewer holes that stand out from the crowd. It even has holes that parallel each other - such a travesty (/s)! Also, the course is extremely difficult due to the inverted greens and I can see many people saying "I paid $400 to play that?!?!" After getting there a** handed to them. Personally, I would not include it on this list either.



    The courses that have disappointed me generally have the name "ocean" in them - the two on HHI, the Nicklaus course at Hammock Beach, etc. One or two holes on the ocean does not make an ocean course - especially when all the other holes are typical "Florida golf holes." However, Kiawah and Cabo del Sol escape this pitfall as the non ocean holes are deffinately not vanilla!



  • jaw1978jaw1978 Members Posts: 83
    burnsniper wrote:
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!




    It often may depend on your context when evaluating how a course fared vs expectations. I’ve been lucky enough to play some amazing courses in the past year, so that was my barometer for Oakland Hills. Camargo, Fishers Island, Monterey Peninsula, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot West - I enjoyed those all more than Oakland Hills. Not saying I didn’t enjoy OH, but the variety of holes and my overall enjoyment in the others was better than OH. But this always has so much personal preference involved that it’s an art, not a science.
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    As noted above, I love the frame of 'disappointment' because it takes expectations into account.



    Golf courses are organic things, and ebb and flow into and out of peak form and perfect days. I can absolutely see how somebody could have a "meh" day at Merion, and a perfect day at Oakland Hills, resulting in 'hyping' OH to friends...setting them up for a letdown if they played Merion on a perfect day and get something less than average at Oakland Hills. The psychology of it is fascinating.
  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jaw1978 wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!




    It often may depend on your context when evaluating how a course fared vs expectations. I’ve been lucky enough to play some amazing courses in the past year, so that was my barometer for Oakland Hills. Camargo, Fishers Island, Monterey Peninsula, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot West - I enjoyed those all more than Oakland Hills. Not saying I didn’t enjoy OH, but the variety of holes and my overall enjoyment in the others was better than OH. But this always has so much personal preference involved that it’s an art, not a science.




    I understand your point of a course not meeting personal expectations - however I still don't know how anyone could be "disappointed" with Oakland Hills from a pure archectural and historical standpoint. The same factors that make a course like Fishers or Monterey (or arguably in suburban NYC) just don't apply at a course in suburban Detroit...
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I am very surprised with some of the courses being mentioned here as a "disappointment". Let's keep it in perspective that the following IMO shouldn't factor into your "disappointment":



    1. You had to pay $100 for a caddie

    2. You didn't get a guest locker in the member locker room

    3. You couldn't buy anything in the pro shop with cash or CC

    4. You couldn't take a cart

    5. There was slow play

    6. Your 5th beer in the clubhouse had slightly more head on it

    7. They didn't offer you an honorary membership

    8. The had to hit off mats on the range

    9. The halfway house didn't have your back 9 bar

    10. You didn't get your a** kissed



    It's layout, architecture, condition...... IMO only.
  • TadWPJTadWPJ Unregistered Posts: 292 ✭✭
    edited Jun 29, 2018 #160
    burnsniper wrote:

    jaw1978 wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!




    It often may depend on your context when evaluating how a course fared vs expectations. I’ve been lucky enough to play some amazing courses in the past year, so that was my barometer for Oakland Hills. Camargo, Fishers Island, Monterey Peninsula, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot West - I enjoyed those all more than Oakland Hills. Not saying I didn’t enjoy OH, but the variety of holes and my overall enjoyment in the others was better than OH. But this always has so much personal preference involved that it’s an art, not a science.




    I understand your point of a course not meeting personal expectations - however I still don't know how anyone could be "disappointed" with Oakland Hills from a pure archectural and historical standpoint. The same factors that make a course like Fishers or Monterey (or arguably in suburban NYC) just don't apply at a course in suburban Detroit...




    Oakland Hills is average course with great greens. It shouldn't be top 100 now and it's near 100 with Hansen plan, not top 20 or 25. Do u understand that RTJ messed up the Ross bunker locations? There is no nuances around the greens. Putt on 1, play 6, 8, 9, and 11 and walk in. It's 5th or 6th best track in SE MI. Every course has history, hosting majors shouldn't elevate a course in rankings.
  • AppAlumAppAlum Members Posts: 778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CheckJV wrote:


    Pinehurst #5 was very disappointing. Just not a good track or in good condition. Played there years ago so maybe it’s been renovated but was not good when I played it.




    #5 is not thought highly enough of to be overrated. It’s always been just average.
  • BNGLBNGL Members Posts: 1,737 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Schley wrote:
    BNGL wrote:


    I was let down by Seminole. Idk I just thought the number 1 in Florida would be a cut above everything else. I’ve played well there and It’s phenomenal don’t get me wrong, if not a little quirky. Still go if you get a chance obviously




    A friend has played it and said he really liked it, but said he didn't think it deserved being in the top 10 of US courses. Top 25 yes, but not top 10. However, aren't we splitting hairs here a little bit by saying a course is top 10 vs. top 25. Aren't they **** great golf courses anyway? I mean who are we to judge top 10 vs. top 25, other than it gives us something to talk about on gca or golfwrx.



    Haven't played much in Florida, but in the next 5 years or so would look at buying a retirement home and join a private club I would love everyday.




    Check out Broken Sound Golf Club in Boca Raton. I just got done playing the old course, I could play there everyday. It’s a sweet track, great clubhouse and locker room. Good practice facility (range is a smidge small, but double sided so).
  • mshillsmshills T-I-G-E-R-S! Fight Tigers, fight dammit, FIGHT FIGHT! Pittsburgh - South HillsMembers Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Doral

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    Hmm, something about Florida golf.......Seminole and Streamsong are the exceptions of course, but the rest of what I've experienced in FL are just not my thing.
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  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jun 30, 2018 #164
    TadWPJ wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:

    jaw1978 wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!




    It often may depend on your context when evaluating how a course fared vs expectations. I’ve been lucky enough to play some amazing courses in the past year, so that was my barometer for Oakland Hills. Camargo, Fishers Island, Monterey Peninsula, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot West - I enjoyed those all more than Oakland Hills. Not saying I didn’t enjoy OH, but the variety of holes and my overall enjoyment in the others was better than OH. But this always has so much personal preference involved that it’s an art, not a science.




    I understand your point of a course not meeting personal expectations - however I still don't know how anyone could be "disappointed" with Oakland Hills from a pure archectural and historical standpoint. The same factors that make a course like Fishers or Monterey (or arguably in suburban NYC) just don't apply at a course in suburban Detroit...




    Oakland Hills is average course with great greens. It shouldn't be top 100 now and it's near 100 with Hansen plan, not top 20 or 25. Do u understand that RTJ messed up the Ross bunker locations? There is no nuances around the greens. Putt on 1, play 6, 8, 9, and 11 and walk in. It's 5th or 6th best track in SE MI. Every course has history, hosting majors shouldn't elevate a course in rankings.




    Personally thought the entire back nine was top notch; 14-18 particularly stand out due to the variety of shots. Only thing that seemed a bit contrived on the hole course was the pond on 16 (however it is a beautiful hole). Bunkers were classic RTJ. I would put it in my personal top 10 with it close to top 5.



    Haven't played much in MI (do a lot of work there, don't live there); curious what you would put above it? I have an in at TPC Deerborn but haven't payed there yet.
  • oldschoolrockeroldschoolrocker Members Posts: 5,095 ✭✭
    Very hard for everyone to have the same opinion about a course, even if we all played it under the exact same conditions, from when we arrived on the property to when we departed.

    Some of us prefer blondes, some brunettes. Some like plain apple pie, some a’la mode, and some with cheese.

    I agree that it requires a good deal of mind power to extract the “course proper” from the overall “experience” one has when factoring in the pampering and amenities we believe should accompany a top tier course.
  • TadWPJTadWPJ Unregistered Posts: 292 ✭✭
    burnsniper wrote:

    TadWPJ wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:

    jaw1978 wrote:

    burnsniper wrote:
    Honestly I am quite shocked that people would list Oakland Hills South on this list. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to play it this week and I thought it was fantastic - great variety of holes (mixes of doglegs, short and long, uphill and downhill holes, etc.). The course clearly has some of the most beautiful bunkers in the world, fantastic greens, and a great use of the natural topography - not to mention the narrowest fairways of any course I have ever played. Also, the clubhouse is simply spectacular. To top it all off the course turns 100 next month!




    It often may depend on your context when evaluating how a course fared vs expectations. I've been lucky enough to play some amazing courses in the past year, so that was my barometer for Oakland Hills. Camargo, Fishers Island, Monterey Peninsula, Quaker Ridge, Winged Foot West - I enjoyed those all more than Oakland Hills. Not saying I didn't enjoy OH, but the variety of holes and my overall enjoyment in the others was better than OH. But this always has so much personal preference involved that it's an art, not a science.




    I understand your point of a course not meeting personal expectations - however I still don't know how anyone could be "disappointed" with Oakland Hills from a pure archectural and historical standpoint. The same factors that make a course like Fishers or Monterey (or arguably in suburban NYC) just don't apply at a course in suburban Detroit...




    Oakland Hills is average course with great greens. It shouldn't be top 100 now and it's near 100 with Hansen plan, not top 20 or 25. Do u understand that RTJ messed up the Ross bunker locations? There is no nuances around the greens. Putt on 1, play 6, 8, 9, and 11 and walk in. It's 5th or 6th best track in SE MI. Every course has history, hosting majors shouldn't elevate a course in rankings.




    Personally thought the entire back nine was top notch; 14-18 particularly stand out due to the variety of shots. Only thing that seemed a bit contrived on the hole course was the pond on 16 (however it is a beautiful hole). Bunkers were classic RTJ. I would put it in my personal top 10 with it close to top 5.



    Haven't played much in MI (do a lot of work there, don't live there); curious what you would put above it? I have an in at TPC Deerborn but haven't payed there yet.




    16 and 17 is garbage. 17 has too bold of a green for a long par 3 that is uphill. The bunkers are on both sides of the fairway on half the holes, there is no strategy for a preferred angle, when RTJ ruined Ross work. The tie in's around the greens have no character or nuances. 15 you have center line bunkers with no room to go left or right. Now I can carry them, but it's another weak hole. It's best just to walk in after the 11th green, end on a great hole. 16 isn't the only contrived hole on the course, #7 might be the worst hole.



    1. Orchard Lake

    2. Franklin Hills

    3. Meadowbrook

    4. UofM

    5. Indianwood old/Oakland Hills S
  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    [quote/]



    16 and 17 is garbage. 17 has too bold of a green for a long par 3 that is uphill. The bunkers are on both sides of the fairway on half the holes, there is no strategy for a preferred angle, when RTJ ruined Ross work. The tie in's around the greens have no character or nuances. 15 you have center line bunkers with no room to go left or right. Now I can carry them, but it's another weak hole. It's best just to walk in after the 11th green, end on a great hole. 16 isn't the only contrived hole on the course, #7 might be the worst hole.



    1. Orchard Lake

    2. Franklin Hills

    3. Meadowbrook

    4. UofM

    5. Indianwood old/Oakland Hills S

    [/quote]



    We (and most of the golf community at large - www.golfdigest.com/gallery/the-best-us-open-venue-our-definitive-ranking/amp) are going to have to agree to disagree (lol). Thanks for the MI suggestions!
  • icemakricemakr Charter Members Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Prestwick, really

    What did you expect?



    Its a super small club, Home of the First Open Championship.

    Its part of history, if they made you play with a gutta percha and hickorys

    maybe then you would appreciate it?



    were you disappointed when you saw the Declaration of Independance

    "just an old wrinkled piece of paper"



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  • Thunder DanThunder Dan Members Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Whistling Straits, easy choice for this.



    Blue Monster as well
  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    burnsniper wrote:


    [quote/]



    16 and 17 is garbage. 17 has too bold of a green for a long par 3 that is uphill. The bunkers are on both sides of the fairway on half the holes, there is no strategy for a preferred angle, when RTJ ruined Ross work. The tie in's around the greens have no character or nuances. 15 you have center line bunkers with no room to go left or right. Now I can carry them, but it's another weak hole. It's best just to walk in after the 11th green, end on a great hole. 16 isn't the only contrived hole on the course, #7 might be the worst hole.



    1. Orchard Lake

    2. Franklin Hills

    3. Meadowbrook

    4. UofM

    5. Indianwood old/Oakland Hills S




    We (and most of the golf community at large - www.golfdigest.com/gallery/the-best-us-open-venue-our-definitive-ranking/amp) are going to have to agree to disagree (lol). Thanks for the MI suggestions!

    [/quote]



    To be fair I live in the area and Tads opinion is shared by MANY around here who have played all over the city. He is not necessarily an outlier. I would also suggest that the USGA and the membership mostly agree with him too as the USGA has told them they won't get another open until they make major changes to the golf course (they haven't had a US Open since 1996) and the membership is about to put a huge sum of money into completely redoing it.
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  • carreracarrera Members Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    burnsniper wrote:


    We (and most of the golf community at large - www.golfdigest.com/gallery/the-best-us-open-venue-our-definitive-ranking/amp) are going to have to agree to disagree (lol).




    I must have missed something, but how does that link support OHS? Even if it was included in that ranking (by 10 random people), the criteria are pretty meaningless from a golf course quality perspective:



    We asked a panel of 10 Golf Digest contributors to rank their favorite Open courses, based on factors such as course layout, tradition, past winners and excitement produced.
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  • KingMike KingMike Members Posts: 409 ✭✭
    Anyone played Riviera? Curious about the experience.
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  • jaw1978jaw1978 Members Posts: 83
    KingMike wrote:
    Anyone played Riviera? Curious about the experience.




    I really enjoyed Riv - great collection of golf holes. The “experience” is a bit diminished by the corporate feel of the place; it feels like a machine pumping out profit. But that didn’t tarnish what I felt was a truly great test of golf. I think its ranking(s) are appropriate though. Not the best I’ve played, but very good. LACC is better.
  • Arb8889Arb8889 Members Posts: 593 ✭✭
    KingMike wrote:


    Anyone played Riviera? Curious about the experience.




    Its amazing in every way, If I had to play only one golf course everyday for the rest of my life it might be Riv
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  • SixSixGolfSixSixGolf Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    davep043 wrote:

    krtgolfing wrote:


    Pinehurst # 2 and Harbor Town.


    I've never thought that Pinehurst #2 is overrated, I find it fascinating. Its not visually stunning, in fact its pretty understated. Its not difficult to drive the ball in fairways. But its hard to hit and hold greens, chipping and putting is challenging, and I've usually seen it in good conditions. I'd be interested to hear what you (and the others who don't particularly care for it) didn't like about it.




    I think people get butt hurt about being eviscerated by a course that's right in front of you and has no rough. I also think some hacks get sour about having to walk.
  • krtgolfingkrtgolfing Members Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    SixSixGolf wrote:

    davep043 wrote:

    krtgolfing wrote:


    Pinehurst # 2 and Harbor Town.


    I've never thought that Pinehurst #2 is overrated, I find it fascinating. Its not visually stunning, in fact its pretty understated. Its not difficult to drive the ball in fairways. But its hard to hit and hold greens, chipping and putting is challenging, and I've usually seen it in good conditions. I'd be interested to hear what you (and the others who don't particularly care for it) didn't like about it.




    I think people get butt hurt about being eviscerated by a course that's right in front of you and has no rough. I also think some hacks get sour about having to walk.




    I know one of the guys I was paired up with was complain about walking. He was to cheap to get a caddie I suppose. Definitely put a damper on things and probably took away from.m my enjoyment. I definitely want to play it again to see things that I missed. I actually played really well. My goal was to beak 85 and shot an 80. I was shooting for the middle of the greens and trying to make pars. Birded holes 6 and 18. Stuck my second shot on 18 to about 5 feet. I was probably a little underwhelmed by the price tag as well. The service at the entire resort was th best I’ve ever had though.
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  • dave williedave willie Members Posts: 804 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Schley wrote:


    I am very surprised with some of the courses being mentioned here as a "disappointment". Let's keep it in perspective that the following IMO shouldn't factor into your "disappointment":



    1. You had to pay $100 for a caddie

    2. You didn't get a guest locker in the member locker room

    3. You couldn't buy anything in the pro shop with cash or CC

    4. You couldn't take a cart

    5. There was slow play

    6. Your 5th beer in the clubhouse had slightly more head on it

    7. They didn't offer you an honorary membership

    8. The had to hit off mats on the range

    9. The halfway house didn't have your back 9 bar

    10. You didn't get your a** kissed



    It's layout, architecture, condition...... IMO only.


    Another erroneous factor in judging a course is your score when playing it for the first time. if you hack it up, it usually isn't the fault of the course. Tough courses often take time to learn which misses will kill you.
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  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    jaw1978 wrote:

    KingMike wrote:
    Anyone played Riviera? Curious about the experience.




    I really enjoyed Riv - great collection of golf holes. The “experience” is a bit diminished by the corporate feel of the place; it feels like a machine pumping out profit. But that didn’t tarnish what I felt was a truly great test of golf. I think its ranking(s) are appropriate though. Not the best I’ve played, but very good. LACC is better.




    Playing there in August and will let you know how amazing it will be as my expectations are pretty high for this track. Will leave only LACC to play in So Cal, which is probably the best but I can't comment as I haven't played.



    Also checking out Bel Air after the Doak renovation and HIllcrest.
  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingMike wrote:


    Anyone played Riviera? Curious about the experience.




    My favorite course!
  • burnsniperburnsniper Members Posts: 559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 1, 2018 #180

    burnsniper wrote:


    [quote/]



    16 and 17 is garbage. 17 has too bold of a green for a long par 3 that is uphill. The bunkers are on both sides of the fairway on half the holes, there is no strategy for a preferred angle, when RTJ ruined Ross work. The tie in's around the greens have no character or nuances. 15 you have center line bunkers with no room to go left or right. Now I can carry them, but it's another weak hole. It's best just to walk in after the 11th green, end on a great hole. 16 isn't the only contrived hole on the course, #7 might be the worst hole.



    1. Orchard Lake

    2. Franklin Hills

    3. Meadowbrook

    4. UofM

    5. Indianwood old/Oakland Hills S




    We (and most of the golf community at large - www.golfdigest.com/gallery/the-best-us-open-venue-our-definitive-ranking/amp) are going to have to agree to disagree (lol). Thanks for the MI suggestions!




    To be fair I live in the area and Tads opinion is shared by MANY around here who have played all over the city. He is not necessarily an outlier. I would also suggest that the USGA and the membership mostly agree with him too as the USGA has told them they won't get another open until they make major changes to the golf course (they haven't had a US Open since 1996) and the membership is about to put a huge sum of money into completely redoing it.

    [/quote]



    I think they voted down the renovation:

    http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20160712/NEWS/160719943/oakland-hills-membership-rejects-11-million-south-course-renovation





  • TadWPJTadWPJ Unregistered Posts: 292 ✭✭
    edited Jul 1, 2018 #181
    Many times in renovations the first vote fails. They are re-voting on Oakland South this month and it will most likely pass. They are trying for 2032 open.

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