PGA Junior League All-Stars - New Rules

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bwbw wrote:


    My daughter plays this weekend in the South Central sectional. They have their only team practice tomorrow night. I do not have high hopes for this team (we're only booking hotel for one night, not expecting to make it to day two).




    They do the Sectional in two days? There are only 4 teams aren't there? Couldn't they just play back to back matches on the same day? They are just 9 hole matches. Our sectional is only one day with 4 teams.
  • bwbwbwbw Members Posts: 61 ✭✭

    bwbw wrote:


    My daughter plays this weekend in the South Central sectional. They have their only team practice tomorrow night. I do not have high hopes for this team (we're only booking hotel for one night, not expecting to make it to day two).




    They do the Sectional in two days? There are only 4 teams aren't there? Couldn't they just play back to back matches on the same day? They are just 9 hole matches. Our sectional is only one day with 4 teams.




    We did not have "sectional qualifying" so that is day 1. Day 2 will be the top 4 teams from there. They are doing it all this weekend in Tulsa.
  • bwbwbwbw Members Posts: 61 ✭✭
    So this is how they ran South Central sectional qualifying:



    9 teams in the morning, 9 in the afternoon. They were flighted as such. They took top 2 from morning and top 2 from the afternoon and those 4 teams advanced on to match play today.



    The morning flight was a lot weaker as a whole. Second place was a 110. Our team in the afternoon shot a 111, and we were 5th. Winning team in the afternoon shot a 100. I know several of the players on that team (it's stacked with a league of a couple of the top clubs in Arkansas). They went on to win and advance on. My daughter has a good friend on that team and is excited that they advanced on. Some of those kids made it to the national finals last year ("Team Arkansas").



    It was a fun experience, and overall very well ran. There were rules officials roaming the course, which was nice when there was a question and everyone just wanted to keep play moving. Did I mention it was 96 degrees with a heat index over 100 that afternoon? Yes, very, very warm. But a good time for all of the players.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #35
    bwbw wrote:


    So this is how they ran South Central sectional qualifying:



    9 teams in the morning, 9 in the afternoon. They were flighted as such. They took top 2 from morning and top 2 from the afternoon and those 4 teams advanced on to match play today.



    The morning flight was a lot weaker as a whole. Second place was a 110. Our team in the afternoon shot a 111, and we were 5th. Winning team in the afternoon shot a 100. I know several of the players on that team (it's stacked with a league of a couple of the top clubs in Arkansas). They went on to win and advance on. My daughter has a good friend on that team and is excited that they advanced on. Some of those kids made it to the national finals last year ("Team Arkansas").



    It was a fun experience, and overall very well ran. There were rules officials roaming the course, which was nice when there was a question and everyone just wanted to keep play moving. Did I mention it was 96 degrees with a heat index over 100 that afternoon? Yes, very, very warm. But a good time for all of the players.




    100 is not a stacked team. Our team wasn't great and we shot a 96 in sectional qualifying. Lost in the Sectional Finals to a team that was deeper. Either team that advanced out of our Section was going to get rolled at Regionals. Our team was top heavy and not well balanced. Needed to more kids to be good.
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 307 ✭✭✭✭
    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don’t know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 307 ✭✭✭✭



    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: https://mobile.twitter.com/SouthernOhioPGA/status/1033515972471218176
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: https://mobile.twitt...515972471218176




    No way those are 9 hole scores. Have to be a weather delay of some sort where they went to a minimal number of wholes.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Michelle Wie was practicing at the facility we were at and stopped by to greet the kids and take pictures.
  • Keith355tbKeith355tb Members Posts: 25 ✭✭





    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: [url="https://mobile.twitter.com/SouthernOhioPGA/status/1033515972471218176"]https://mobile.twitt...515972471218176[/url]




    No way those are 9 hole scores. Have to be a weather delay of some sort where they went to a minimal number of wholes.


    Heavy,

    Curious to know what your teams scores were.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Keith355tb wrote:






    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: https://mobile.twitt...515972471218176




    No way those are 9 hole scores. Have to be a weather delay of some sort where they went to a minimal number of wholes.




    Heavy,

    Curious to know what your teams scores were.




    33-31-32-42
  • Keith355tbKeith355tb Members Posts: 25 ✭✭
    So what’s a stacked team? Just curious. -12 under seems to be pretty stout.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: [url="https://mobile.twitter.com/SouthernOhioPGA/status/1033515972471218176"]https://mobile.twitt...515972471218176[/url]




    No way those are 9 hole scores. Have to be a weather delay of some sort where they went to a minimal number of wholes.


    I thought they were on a par 3 course.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I think PGA Jr. League is great. They do have problems that need to be fixed. This year was definitely better than last and they are headed in the right direction.



    Once All-Stars hit I think they need to lengthen the distances out and it needs to be consistent through out the state. We played 2510 yards at sectional qualifying and 2400 at Sectionals. Our big 3 were on all the Par 5's in two and driving several of the Par 4's in one. If Regional Championship and National Championship are played up to 2900 yards (I think) then Sectional Qualifying and and Sectionals should be played from the same distance. Why send a team with kids that can't play from that distance to the Regional to try to qualify if they can't play that long.



    I don't like having 10 kids on the team. Take 8 all-stars and 2 alternates. If they are an all-star then they should all play 9 holes. They changed the format this year so 4 kids will play 9 holes and the other 6 kids only get to play 6 holes. Every kid should play the same amount.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Keith355tb wrote:
    So what’s a stacked team? Just curious. -12 under seems to be pretty stout.


    Orange County #2 shot 15 under 93 in their event a few weeks ago. The next two scores were 94, 95. I don't think they advanced after the next round though. If I remember correctly San Diego #1 beat them in the group of 4.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:





    Saw one team shot accumulation score of 66 in section qualifier. Don't know the course setup or the yardage but 66 is an unbelievable score. Some/many teams are really good this year!




    That would be an average of 22. 14 under for three separate teams? Are you sure you read that right?
    .



    This: https://mobile.twitt...515972471218176




    No way those are 9 hole scores. Have to be a weather delay of some sort where they went to a minimal number of wholes.


    I thought they were on a par 3 course.




    Very well could have been. Didn't think of that. I didn't think they were allowed to do that for All Stars.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Keith355tb wrote:


    So what's a stacked team? Just curious. -12 under seems to be pretty stout.




    A team that goes 31-31-31-31 is stacked. We went to Sectional Final and the number one team on the other side went 29. I thought they played above their level, but they balled out and were bombing putts. You have to have depth to advance.
  • Keith355tbKeith355tb Members Posts: 25 ✭✭
    Yes I understand now. 13-14 yr olds playing 2400 yds can for sure shoot low 30’s. I agree, they definitely need to be playing at least 3000 yards.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Keith355tb wrote:


    Yes I understand now. 13-14 yr olds playing 2400 yds can for sure shoot low 30's. I agree, they definitely need to be playing at least 3000 yards.




    This is one of the problems with PGA Jr. League. My opinion is that Jr. League came about to get more kids involved in the game. The thought and the league itself is a lot of fun. Once you bring a National Championship and Television involvement to the table, recreational goes out of the window. You then get competitive adults involved which then brings in recruiting. It brings in an entire host of problems. Most 12-13 year old girl's can't play from 3000 yards. You can't say each chapter will have an all star team of 6 guys and 4 girl's because some chapters don't have any girls.



    I am not a fan of the flag system either. Would rather it be straight up match play.



    Another thought is if they want 10 kids, then play 5 matches of just head to head match play. Don't play kids as 3 in a group.
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 307 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #51

    Keith355tb wrote:


    Yes I understand now. 13-14 yr olds playing 2400 yds can for sure shoot low 30's. I agree, they definitely need to be playing at least 3000 yards.




    This is one of the problems with PGA Jr. League. My opinion is that Jr. League came about to get more kids involved in the game. The thought and the league itself is a lot of fun. Once you bring a National Championship and Television involvement to the table, recreational goes out of the window. You then get competitive adults involved which then brings in recruiting. It brings in an entire host of problems. Most 12-13 year old girl's can't play from 3000 yards. You can't say each chapter will have an all star team of 6 guys and 4 girl's because some chapters don't have any girls.



    I am not a fan of the flag system either. Would rather it be straight up match play.



    Another thought is if they want 10 kids, then play 5 matches of just head to head match play. Don't play kids as 3 in a group.




    The 3-player group makes golf in line with other youth sports, naming that the best players may not get all play time, and equality of play time is emphasized as well as the result. I personally don’t have an issue with this. Many young golfers need to learn how to share and how to cover for and carry the less experienced play partners. Important lessons which can transfer beyond golf and into many other areas in their lives.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Keith355tb wrote:


    Yes I understand now. 13-14 yr olds playing 2400 yds can for sure shoot low 30's. I agree, they definitely need to be playing at least 3000 yards.




    This is one of the problems with PGA Jr. League. My opinion is that Jr. League came about to get more kids involved in the game. The thought and the league itself is a lot of fun. Once you bring a National Championship and Television involvement to the table, recreational goes out of the window. You then get competitive adults involved which then brings in recruiting. It brings in an entire host of problems. Most 12-13 year old girl's can't play from 3000 yards. You can't say each chapter will have an all star team of 6 guys and 4 girl's because some chapters don't have any girls.



    I am not a fan of the flag system either. Would rather it be straight up match play.



    Another thought is if they want 10 kids, then play 5 matches of just head to head match play. Don't play kids as 3 in a group.




    The 3-player group makes golf in line with other youth sports, naming that the best players may not get all play time, and equality of play time is emphasized as well as the result. I personally don’t have an issue with this. Many young golfers need to learn how to share and how to cover for and carry the less experienced play partners. Important lessons which can transfer beyond golf and into many other areas in their lives.




    While I don’t disagree with you, it isn’t the kids learning this lesson, it is the parents. Best player on opponents team in Qualifying pulls him for sectionals because he is only playing 6 holes. I am sure this isn’t the only team this happened to. Parents egos get bruised. There are other places this lesson can happen. The other thing I heard from parents was, “I didn’t drive 2 hours just to watch my kid play 6 holes. Could’ve done something better with my time.” I don’t think it is fair to tell four kids they can play 9 holes each and the other 6 kids that it is a 6 hole competition.



    I do believe you have to learn to sacrifice for a team. However, this is only teaching a few kids this lesson.
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 307 ✭✭✭✭


    Keith355tb wrote:


    Yes I understand now. 13-14 yr olds playing 2400 yds can for sure shoot low 30's. I agree, they definitely need to be playing at least 3000 yards.




    This is one of the problems with PGA Jr. League. My opinion is that Jr. League came about to get more kids involved in the game. The thought and the league itself is a lot of fun. Once you bring a National Championship and Television involvement to the table, recreational goes out of the window. You then get competitive adults involved which then brings in recruiting. It brings in an entire host of problems. Most 12-13 year old girl's can't play from 3000 yards. You can't say each chapter will have an all star team of 6 guys and 4 girl's because some chapters don't have any girls.



    I am not a fan of the flag system either. Would rather it be straight up match play.



    Another thought is if they want 10 kids, then play 5 matches of just head to head match play. Don't play kids as 3 in a group.




    The 3-player group makes golf in line with other youth sports, naming that the best players may not get all play time, and equality of play time is emphasized as well as the result. I personally don’t have an issue with this. Many young golfers need to learn how to share and how to cover for and carry the less experienced play partners. Important lessons which can transfer beyond golf and into many other areas in their lives.




    While I don’t disagree with you, it isn’t the kids learning this lesson, it is the parents. Best player on opponents team in Qualifying pulls him for sectionals because he is only playing 6 holes. I am sure this isn’t the only team this happened to. Parents egos get bruised. There are other places this lesson can happen. The other thing I heard from parents was, “I didn’t drive 2 hours just to watch my kid play 6 holes. Could’ve done something better with my time.” I don’t think it is fair to tell four kids they can play 9 holes each and the other 6 kids that it is a 6 hole competition.



    I do believe you have to learn to sacrifice for a team. However, this is only teaching a few kids this lesson.




    Wow, it is totally beyond my mind that some parents would do that. It’s understandable to feel disappointed a bit, but withdrawing from the team and leaving the team hang is too much. The parents need to know how they behave set examples for their kids.
  • bwbwbwbw Members Posts: 61 ✭✭
    We drove 3.5 hours one way to watch our daughter play 6 holes. Did not bother us at all. Why? Because it is important that she learns to be a team player, and it is important that we support that learning. If we throw a fit that she only plays 6, then what have we taught her? Pride. I want her to be confident in her game, but not a prideful player.



    That being said, HH is right: Straight up match play would be better, especially for sectionals and beyond. Want to do flags for local play? I'm not too opposed to that. But once we talk post-season, go match play and give these all-stars equal playing time that way.



    The other thing I'd suggest: One teeing ground for boys, one for girls. That would level out some of the distance disparity, especially if you have a girl paired against a boy.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bwbw wrote:


    The other thing I'd suggest: One teeing ground for boys, one for girls. That would level out some of the distance disparity, especially if you have a girl paired against a boy.




    We had a girl on our All Star team (13'ish) that was already out-driving most boys her age. Not sure that would work.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • Putter11Putter11 Members Posts: 3

    @Tigerswag said:
    kekoa wrote:


    Tigerswag wrote:

    My son is in the lower picture. We had a good mix of longer and shorter hitters. But, we always had a kid capable of hitting it over 280 on each team.

    280? Is that a typo /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

    We had 4 bombers. One for each team. But, the matches come down to who makes the putts. My sons partner was the shortest hitter on the team. But, defiantly the best putter and wedge player.

    @Tigerswag said:
    kekoa wrote:


    Tigerswag wrote:

    My son is in the lower picture. We had a good mix of longer and shorter hitters. But, we always had a kid capable of hitting it over 280 on each team.

    280? Is that a typo /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

    We had 4 bombers. One for each team. But, the matches come down to who makes the putts. My sons partner was the shortest hitter on the team. But, defiantly the best putter and wedge player.

  • Putter11Putter11 Members Posts: 3

    Team Georgia (Atlanta) 2019 is Stacked !!!!!! 10 deep with VERY solid All Stars that finished or won Worlds, Big time Regional events, Future Masters, Drive Chip and Putt if they did not win they finished in top tier of those tourneys etc etc etc.....probably the strongest team to ever come out of Atlanta !!!! And to top it all off they could have easily had a “B” Team from their League that could have been equally 10 deep stacked and go up against any team in the country !!! Incredible talent and very very tough competition all over Atlanta ! Funny thing is they will have a very very stacked team next year as well as they will only lose 3 players from this years team and they will be replaced by very solid kids. Absolutely the most incredible thing I have ever seen !

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Putter11 said:
    Team Georgia (Atlanta) 2019 is Stacked !!!!!! 10 deep with VERY solid All Stars that finished or won Worlds, Big time Regional events, Future Masters, Drive Chip and Putt if they did not win they finished in top tier of those tourneys etc etc etc.....probably the strongest team to ever come out of Atlanta !!!! And to top it all off they could have easily had a “B” Team from their League that could have been equally 10 deep stacked and go up against any team in the country !!! Incredible talent and very very tough competition all over Atlanta ! Funny thing is they will have a very very stacked team next year as well as they will only lose 3 players from this years team and they will be replaced by very solid kids. Absolutely the most incredible thing I have ever seen !

    Good luck to all the participants. I think California will be ready to defend their 2018 championship.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • BobTheGooseBobTheGoose Members Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited Jul 21, 2019 5:19am #59

    @Putter11 said:
    Team Georgia (Atlanta) 2019 is Stacked !!!!!! 10 deep with VERY solid All Stars that finished or won Worlds, Big time Regional events, Future Masters, Drive Chip and Putt if they did not win they finished in top tier of those tourneys etc etc etc.....probably the strongest team to ever come out of Atlanta !!!! And to top it all off they could have easily had a “B” Team from their League that could have been equally 10 deep stacked and go up against any team in the country !!! Incredible talent and very very tough competition all over Atlanta ! Funny thing is they will have a very very stacked team next year as well as they will only lose 3 players from this years team and they will be replaced by very solid kids. Absolutely the most incredible thing I have ever seen !

    The truth is a strong team on paper may not mean much especially in scramble format. Georgia had a strong lineup last year too but how many games they managed to win? They were no match of Texas and Minnesota and couldn’t beat Illinois. Same happened in other levels of competition that use scramble format such as Ryder Cup etc. Good luck anyway. Hope all kids and parents will have fun which is more important than winning!

  • Golfingdawg19Golfingdawg19 Members Posts: 411 ✭✭✭✭

    The crazy part about all of the junior league stuff is the teams are made up kids who aren’t even from the clubs they represent. They literally just recruits kids from all over to stack their teams. The really good teams recruiting on a level like Alabama does in football. A couple of years ago they had the California coach on the PGA radio. The guy ran his own academy and hand picked which kids were in the academy thus dictating who was on the all star team.

  • BloctonGolf11BloctonGolf11 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 21, 2019 3:52pm #61

    @Golfingdawg19 said:
    The crazy part about all of the junior league stuff is the teams are made up kids who aren’t even from the clubs they represent. They literally just recruits kids from all over to stack their teams. The really good teams recruiting on a level like Alabama does in football. A couple of years ago they had the California coach on the PGA radio. The guy ran his own academy and hand picked which kids were in the academy thus dictating who was on the all star team.

    This right here is where the dark side of Jr. League comes in. We have yet to see it in Alabama as both the Birmingham and Huntsville areas do not recruit the metro area into a single league to produce a "Super All-Star" team. It means more kids get to make it to All-Stars but they are typically not going to do well once they reach a point in the playoffs.

    Just a father and son on a journey together through golf....

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