Transition confusion...drop hands then rotate (Monte) or leave hands up and rotate and then drop (GG

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  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro ClubWRX Posts: 3,230 ClubWRX
    Jasonic wrote:

    bogeypro wrote:

    Jasonic wrote:


    ...

    Are these two different methods trying to achieve the same thing so it's just different feels for individual golfers or two actual different ways to transition?



    One is to drop the arms/hands then rotate and the other from what I understand is to rotate while leaving hands "up" and the rotation shallows the club. Can't wrap my head around either one just because they seem like polar opposites. Get arms/hands in front of you and then turn or turn while leaving arms behind and they'll drop on their own. The drop hands one seems similar to Manuel De La Torre method of swinging the club with your arms and body will respond while the other seems like a definite body driven transition and the club will follow.



    Thoughts?




    Back to the OP.... this topic always seems to become a muddy soup of discussion that don't clearly address your question.



    Here's the bottom line.... How did you get your club to the top of the backswing? It was a combination of ( in no particular order) shifting pressure in the feet, turning of the hips, turning the torso, hinging the wrists, and lifting the arms. The transition is the exact same. It will require the same to get the club back down to proper impact. Some people will respond better to one method or feels better than another, but they are all doing the same thing - getting the club back to impact with with weight on front foot, hands in front of clubhead, etc...



    Try some different methods and find the one that works for you to get you into impact properly. That's what its all about in the end...




    Played yesterday and warmed up thinking of the "downhill" idea that was brought up. Hit the irons better than I have all year but struggled with driver as I was steep (as usual). Good stuff




    check two things: 1) that you aren't overdoing the downhill move with driver and swaying too much toward the target. It should be just a small lateral bump to recenter your weight. 2). ball position. Make sure it is closer to your left foot (just before low point in the club swing arc).
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  • SheriffBoothSheriffBooth Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 4,441 mod
    Thread's been cleaned up. Please stay on topic and don't argue.
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  • lagwagon23lagwagon23 Members Posts: 737
    edited Jul 10, 2018 #124
    Am I wrong that I never feel like I drop or manipulate my hands at all???



    When I begin to turn my hips/weight shift I feel my arms fall some because they are anatomically connected to my body and have to. I have never really agreed with the term "the slot" because all of our bodies are different lengths, flexibility, and there is no 1 position for all of us, "your slot" would be a better term.



    Then My upper body can simply turn through from his point and hit the ball. For me it feels like a door slamming.



    I have heard a lot of people say they drop their hands, but I never feel like my hands do anything intentionally, they just react through anatomical connections.
  • johnrobisonjohnrobison In endless pursuit of P6 Members Posts: 737 ✭✭
    lagwagon23 wrote:


    Am I wrong that I never feel like I drop or manipulate my hands at all???



    When I begin to turn my hips/weight shift I feel my arms fall some because they are anatomically connected to my body and have to. I have never really agreed with the term "the slot" because all of our bodies are different lengths, flexibility, and there is no 1 position for all of us, "your slot" would be a better term.



    Then My upper body can simply turn through from his point and hit the ball. For me it feels like a door slamming.



    I have heard a lot of people say they drop their hands, but I never feel like my hands do anything intentionally, they just react through anatomical connections.


    What one person feels might not be the same thing that you feel. Zac Johnson feels like his arms pull his body whereas Charlie Hoffman feels like his left arm stays connected to his chest (he did say that once, didn't he?). We each have our own feels and focus our conscious attention where it works best for us.
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭
    lagwagon23 wrote:


    Am I wrong that I never feel like I drop or manipulate my hands at all???



    When I begin to turn my hips/weight shift I feel my arms fall some because they are anatomically connected to my body and have to. I have never really agreed with the term "the slot" because all of our bodies are different lengths, flexibility, and there is no 1 position for all of us, "your slot" would be a better term.



    Then My upper body can simply turn through from his point and hit the ball. For me it feels like a door slamming.



    I have heard a lot of people say they drop their hands, but I never feel like my hands do anything intentionally, they just react through anatomical connections.




    Well said!



    Your arms are connected to your shoulder girdle, which is the top of your Pivot. When s girdle tilts/rotates, the arms are moved as well.



    Meaning a proper Pivot will pull the arms down, out and forward.



    It's why you can have the lead arm further to the right of mid-line of your torso at impact than at Setup.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Members Posts: 327 ✭✭
    edited Jul 11, 2018 #127
    This is the best video I've found to describe the feeling.



    [media=]



    Look at the upper body and notice the arms don't move at all. That's what I started to try and feel and that's right when my scores went down and ball striking got better.



    I feel like my arms are frozen in place.



    Made me think I wouldn't get any power from doing so, but the opposite was true.



    Also if you slide or move laterally with the torso hanging back...you have to move the arms. So you really do need a lot of lower body work to make GG style possible.
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭


    This is the best video I've found to describe the feeling.



    [media=]



    Look at the upper body and notice the arms don't move at all. That's what I started to try and feel and that's right when my scores went down and ball striking got better.



    I feel like my arms are frozen in place.



    Made me think I wouldn't get any power from doing so, but the opposite was true.



    Also if you slide or move laterally with the torso hanging back...you have to move the arms. So you really do need a lot of lower body work to make GG style possible.




    Thanks for that video, that is a good one!



    And visually demonstrates really well the point I am trying to make in this thread.,,,,



    Which is that there is way, way, way less independent arm motion than most golfer's believe (like 99.9%!)



    There is NOT "none" - just way less than most folks are thinking they need.



    Removing un-necessary independent arm motion makes the golf swing much easier to master to a high level of repeatability.
  • GolfbeatGolfbeat Swing Lessee Members Posts: 1,656 ✭✭
    This suggests that there is quite some arm movement.



  • smdykassmdykas Members Posts: 162 ✭✭
    dasams wrote:

    So - lowering the arms into the hitting position at P6 is accomplished by rotating the s girdle on that same tilted angle, along with the right elbow straightening. BUT - your body is NOT is the same position at impact that it was in at Setup. Chest and hips are open to the target line, and you have way more right side bend or tilt than at Setup, and your lower body lateral shift creates more pressure on your left leg than at Setup. All of this means you can use less right elbow angle opening up to lower the arms than the same motion raised them on the backswing.




    Jim: Thanks for your input. I've been working hard on a pivot driven swing with minimal arm muscle input. One check for me is the amount that my hips are open at impact. With my crappy arm swing, I estimate that my hips were open as little as 5 deg at impact. I'm not there yet with a real swing but in a slow mo practice swing, my hips are open 30-40 deg and it feels great. Now if I can only convince my subconscious brain to keep my arm muscles out of it...




    Good insight...you want around 45 degrees open hips at impact (assuming you are reasonably fit) around 10-20 degrees open hips by P6.



    Yes - to me, "convincing" the subconscious mind to accept a new "program" is what the swing change improvement Processs is all about.



    There should be a thread devoted to just that concept...it would help a lot of golfers.



    Most golfers have no idea how to make a swing change to the level of the subconscious mind Swing Map.


    Jim, how many degrees should your shoulders (chest) be open at P6 and impact?
  • airjammerairjammer Members Posts: 988 ✭✭
    Golfbeat wrote:


    This suggests that there is quite some arm movement.








    The arms definitely come of the chest at some point...modern day instructors are arguing when. You got GG on side saying keep them pinned longer then you got Pete Cowen that on the other side of the spectrum.



    Imo as I have said several times..gg’s way creates a lot of speed but it seems his players need a crazy amount of guidance and practice to stay hitting it pure. To be honest if I was a struggling mini tour player, I’d give his method a shot just because if you can get hot for a year or so you could be set for life (Ben Kohles)
  • Swingman420Swingman420 Banned Posts: 173
    edited Jul 12, 2018 #132
    An irie transition vibe is not attained through the sense of sight as EJ pointed out. The only way to get a swing is to feel it. So if you are on holiday in Jamaica hanging on a beach and watching the ocean and then you grab a club to practice swing make your swing like the wave.

    A wave doesn’t get tight. A wave flows. A waves energy is very powerful and it builds slowly and smoothly from the top mon!

    You can’t take a wave apart piece by piece. It’s water!

    Make your swing like a wave.

    Chaka
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭
    smdykas wrote:

    dasams wrote:

    So - lowering the arms into the hitting position at P6 is accomplished by rotating the s girdle on that same tilted angle, along with the right elbow straightening. BUT - your body is NOT is the same position at impact that it was in at Setup. Chest and hips are open to the target line, and you have way more right side bend or tilt than at Setup, and your lower body lateral shift creates more pressure on your left leg than at Setup. All of this means you can use less right elbow angle opening up to lower the arms than the same motion raised them on the backswing.




    Jim: Thanks for your input. I've been working hard on a pivot driven swing with minimal arm muscle input. One check for me is the amount that my hips are open at impact. With my crappy arm swing, I estimate that my hips were open as little as 5 deg at impact. I'm not there yet with a real swing but in a slow mo practice swing, my hips are open 30-40 deg and it feels great. Now if I can only convince my subconscious brain to keep my arm muscles out of it...




    Good insight...you want around 45 degrees open hips at impact (assuming you are reasonably fit) around 10-20 degrees open hips by P6.



    Yes - to me, "convincing" the subconscious mind to accept a new "program" is what the swing change improvement Processs is all about.



    There should be a thread devoted to just that concept...it would help a lot of golfers.



    Most golfers have no idea how to make a swing change to the level of the subconscious mind Swing Map.


    Jim, how many degrees should your shoulders (chest) be open at P6 and impact?




    Anytime I get a question like this, there are always two answers: what the ideal or "model" recommends in the swing model I have developed, and what the answer is for a real live human golfer asking the question. Part of the art of teaching is knowing what parts of the swing model are simply not realistic given the body type, fitness level and athletic talent of the student standing in front of you.



    Model is 10-15 degrees closed chest at P6 and impact 25-35 degrees open - that is for a driver swing, the most open. Shorter clubs there will be less open chest.
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,701 ✭✭
    Am I the only one who had to create a note on my phone that translates all those P positions so I can follow these kinds of posts?
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  • dasamsdasams Members Posts: 248 ✭✭

    smdykas wrote:

    dasams wrote:

    So - lowering the arms into the hitting position at P6 is accomplished by rotating the s girdle on that same tilted angle, along with the right elbow straightening. BUT - your body is NOT is the same position at impact that it was in at Setup. Chest and hips are open to the target line, and you have way more right side bend or tilt than at Setup, and your lower body lateral shift creates more pressure on your left leg than at Setup. All of this means you can use less right elbow angle opening up to lower the arms than the same motion raised them on the backswing.




    Jim: Thanks for your input. I've been working hard on a pivot driven swing with minimal arm muscle input. One check for me is the amount that my hips are open at impact. With my crappy arm swing, I estimate that my hips were open as little as 5 deg at impact. I'm not there yet with a real swing but in a slow mo practice swing, my hips are open 30-40 deg and it feels great. Now if I can only convince my subconscious brain to keep my arm muscles out of it...




    Good insight...you want around 45 degrees open hips at impact (assuming you are reasonably fit) around 10-20 degrees open hips by P6.



    Yes - to me, "convincing" the subconscious mind to accept a new "program" is what the swing change improvement Processs is all about.



    There should be a thread devoted to just that concept...it would help a lot of golfers.



    Most golfers have no idea how to make a swing change to the level of the subconscious mind Swing Map.


    Jim, how many degrees should your shoulders (chest) be open at P6 and impact?




    Anytime I get a question like this, there are always two answers: what the ideal or "model" recommends in the swing model I have developed, and what the answer is for a real live human golfer asking the question. Part of the art of teaching is knowing what parts of the swing model are simply not realistic given the body type, fitness level and athletic talent of the student standing in front of you.



    Model is 10-15 degrees closed chest at P6 and impact 25-35 degrees open - that is for a driver swing, the most open. Shorter clubs there will be less open chest.




    Jim: In your post above from July 5th, you said you want your hips open 10-20 deg at P6. But just above you said the model is 10-15 deg closed chest at P6. Did you mean open at P6?
  • sjccsjcc Members Posts: 17 ✭✭
    If your chest is open at P6 you're playing a two handed backhand shot, in tennis.
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,131 ✭✭
    airjammer wrote:

    Golfbeat wrote:


    This suggests that there is quite some arm movement.



    [media=]




    The arms definitely come of the chest at some point...modern day instructors are arguing when. You got GG on side saying keep them pinned longer then you got Pete Cowen that on the other side of the spectrum.



    Imo as I have said several times..gg's way creates a lot of speed but it seems his players need a crazy amount of guidance and practice to stay hitting it pure. To be honest if I was a struggling mini tour player, I'd give his method a shot just because if you can get hot for a year or so you could be set for life (Ben Kohles)




    I've always done kind of a one piece takeway with some wrist hinge, if you looked at a graph would probably be hands, arms, shoulders and then torso/hips in order. On the downswing, just reverse it, torso/hips onto leadside, shoulders and then the arm structure releasing into the shot.
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭
    Dasams - S's question said "chest" and I was responding to that word. Hips and chest - totally different things.



    10-20 open hips at P6; hips 35-45 degrees open at impact.



    10-15 closed chest at P6; driver swings chest open 25-35 degrees at impact.



    But your mileage may vary....depending on how flexible your body is and how strong your core is.



    Less strength and flexiblity, less open you will be with body at impact, which means you will have to allow more independent arm motion to happen on the forward swing.
  • dasamsdasams Members Posts: 248 ✭✭


    10-20 open hips at P6; 10-15 closed chest at P6;




    Thanks for clarifying. At P6, I'm about 5 open hips and 10 closed chest. Need to keep working on this.
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭
    dasams wrote:



    10-20 open hips at P6; 10-15 closed chest at P6;




    Thanks for clarifying. At P6, I'm about 5 open hips and 10 closed chest. Need to keep working on this.




    Don't neglect the role that fitness can play in this issue. If your hip flexors or hip rotaters or hamstrings are super -tight, you are not going to be able to achieve those open body specs at impact.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Members Posts: 327 ✭✭
    edited Jul 13, 2018 #141



    This is the best video I've found to describe the feeling.



    [media=]



    Look at the upper body and notice the arms don't move at all. That's what I started to try and feel and that's right when my scores went down and ball striking got better.



    I feel like my arms are frozen in place.



    Made me think I wouldn't get any power from doing so, but the opposite was true.



    Also if you slide or move laterally with the torso hanging back...you have to move the arms. So you really do need a lot of lower body work to make GG style possible.




    Thanks for that video, that is a good one!



    And visually demonstrates really well the point I am trying to make in this thread.,,,,



    Which is that there is way, way, way less independent arm motion than most golfer's believe (like 99.9%!)



    There is NOT "none" - just way less than most folks are thinking they need.



    Removing un-necessary independent arm motion makes the golf swing much easier to master to a high level of repeatability.
    Yeah.



    I think the best way to apply this concept is to teach a low lead hip in transition. At least start with that.

    The lead hip is the center of the golf swing. You can feel the hips clear out of the way if you try to keep it low and add pressure to the left heel while trying to pivot.



    [media=]



    Also to think of the golf swing as a rotational sport was a big one for me. Most people think they need to move the club head down the line.



    Pair up this hip action with what feels like frozen arms and you got yourself a **** good swing.
  • jecarnljecarnl Members Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Different styles of swing, have to find what works best for you. I don't like it when instructors are so absolute in their teaching one way or the other




    A very wise man.
  • lehill66lehill66 Members Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Jasonic wrote:


    Hey everyone. This is the most conceptually confusing part of the swing for me and I think it's also the most important. Obviously both of these teachers I mentioned are highly accomplished and respected so I'm not saying one is bad or better but just trying to understand the two different thoughts.



    Are these two different methods trying to achieve the same thing so it's just different feels for individual golfers or two actual different ways to transition?



    One is to drop the arms/hands then rotate and the other from what I understand is to rotate while leaving hands "up" and the rotation shallows the club. Can't wrap my head around either one just because they seem like polar opposites. Get arms/hands in front of you and then turn or turn while leaving arms behind and they'll drop on their own. The drop hands one seems similar to Manuel De La Torre method of swinging the club with your arms and body will respond while the other seems like a definite body driven transition and the club will follow.



    Thoughts?




    This may have been said already but don't feel like reading through all the pages... My view on the transition is that it will happen naturally with proper core weight shift and rotation. You should never "try" to leave your hands up or "try" to drop them. Doing this would kill your swing. When you shift your weight and rotate your core properly, the arms will fall into proper position naturally. The actual position will vary from person to person depending on physique, set up, etc. But the important thing is to focus on your core body movements and the rest should fall into place.
  • Jim WaldronJim Waldron Balance Point Golf Schools Sponsors Posts: 3,214 ✭✭
    lehill66 wrote:

    Jasonic wrote:


    Hey everyone. This is the most conceptually confusing part of the swing for me and I think it's also the most important. Obviously both of these teachers I mentioned are highly accomplished and respected so I'm not saying one is bad or better but just trying to understand the two different thoughts.



    Are these two different methods trying to achieve the same thing so it's just different feels for individual golfers or two actual different ways to transition?



    One is to drop the arms/hands then rotate and the other from what I understand is to rotate while leaving hands "up" and the rotation shallows the club. Can't wrap my head around either one just because they seem like polar opposites. Get arms/hands in front of you and then turn or turn while leaving arms behind and they'll drop on their own. The drop hands one seems similar to Manuel De La Torre method of swinging the club with your arms and body will respond while the other seems like a definite body driven transition and the club will follow.



    Thoughts?




    This may have been said already but don't feel like reading through all the pages... My view on the transition is that it will happen naturally with proper core weight shift and rotation. You should never "try" to leave your hands up or "try" to drop them. Doing this would kill your swing. When you shift your weight and rotate your core properly, the arms will fall into proper position naturally. The actual position will vary from person to person depending on physique, set up, etc. But the important thing is to focus on your core body movements and the rest should fall into place.




    Great point, I could not agree more.



    Although I sometimes will use the two intents you mentioned as a training drill, ie exagerrated intention for students who are first learning the Transition.



    OTT'rs can see some benefit from the arms dropping if they are holding so much tension in the upper arms that Pivot momentum is not able to act on the joint to create the movement we do want.



    And folks who have too much independent arm-muscle powered arm motion do really well with the "leave the hands/arms up" drill, and those are the majority of golfers for sure.



    Problem is this - pretty tough to learn proper Pivot action during Transition if your arms are moving too much independently in the sockets. The two things are incompatible.



    Boils down to this - one of the most counter-intuitive aspects of the golf swing is that we are attempting to create proper impact which needs to be amazingly precise, all while using muscles that are used in our non-golf parts of life for creating power - NOT precision.



    How do we blend the precision part with the high CH speed power part?



    The answer is to have the insight that in fact your Pivot actually allows for a more precise impact than using your arms does AND it allows for plenty of power as well.



    You get that precision (as Hogan knew and shared with a few of his tour pro students) by creating a "structured Triangle". That Triangle tames excessive arm motion and removes some of the toxic "slack" from the swing. It allows you to return the sweet spot of the clubface to the back of the ball in a much more repeatable fashion.



    I teach this with a new student using a simple short chip shot motion. No wrist ****, no right elbow bend. and no upper arm independent motion. ONLY the Pivot delivers the clubhead into the back of the ball.



    My students are amazed at how much more solidly they strike the ball doing this drill.
  • Irae133Irae133 Members Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited Apr 2, 2019 12:47pm #145

    Reviving this thread because there's alot of good information in here and wanted to share my experience.

    I've been struggling with a steep downswing and as a result weak shots to the right and fat shots. Recently, I've had some minor success with a light grip pressure and removing tension throughout the swing but I could still hit those weak and fat shots. I've definitely tried GG's method in the past with no luck but last night at the range I inadvertently taught myself the GG pivot.

    What worked for me was a combination of light grip pressure and no tension in the upper body throughout the swing mixed with GG's leave the arms up in transition and rotate. Once I got in to a good backswing position all I did to start the downswing was use the lead knee in a counter clockwise motion and then everything else just worked out.

    I want to say the reason this didn't work before was because my death grip on the club and tight shoulders would prevent my body from doing a proper rotation and naturally shallow the club.

    Definitely the best range session I've had in a long time.

  • dpb5031dpb5031 Members Posts: 5,152 ✭✭

    Regarding grip pressure, one of the toughest things to do in the swing is to hold the club firmly enough with your hands (grip) whilst keeping the wrists soft and supple. Too light grip pressure and the handle will be moving around in your hands...that's no bueno. Supple/relaxed wrists will allow the correct forces to work on the club so as to shallow in transition (given good sequencing a d proper pivot).

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  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 871 ✭✭

    @Irae133 said:
    Reviving this thread because there's alot of good information in here and wanted to share my experience.

    I've been struggling with a steep downswing and as a result weak shots to the right and fat shots. Recently, I've had some minor success with a light grip pressure and removing tension throughout the swing but I could still hit those weak and fat shots. I've definitely tried GG's method in the past with no luck but last night at the range I inadvertently taught myself the GG pivot.

    What worked for me was a combination of light grip pressure and no tension in the upper body throughout the swing mixed with GG's leave the arms up in transition and rotate. Once I got in to a good backswing position all I did to start the downswing was use the lead knee in a counter clockwise motion and then everything else just worked out.

    I want to say the reason this didn't work before was because my death grip on the club and tight shoulders would prevent my body from doing a proper rotation and naturally shallow the club.

    Definitely the best range session I've had in a long time.

    The thing is do you think GG's students are really "leaving the hands up" as he says or is this simply an exaggerated feel to make sure you don't yank down on the handle?

  • Irae133Irae133 Members Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited Apr 2, 2019 3:26pm #148

    @chigolfer1 said:

    @Irae133 said:
    Reviving this thread because there's alot of good information in here and wanted to share my experience.

    I've been struggling with a steep downswing and as a result weak shots to the right and fat shots. Recently, I've had some minor success with a light grip pressure and removing tension throughout the swing but I could still hit those weak and fat shots. I've definitely tried GG's method in the past with no luck but last night at the range I inadvertently taught myself the GG pivot.

    What worked for me was a combination of light grip pressure and no tension in the upper body throughout the swing mixed with GG's leave the arms up in transition and rotate. Once I got in to a good backswing position all I did to start the downswing was use the lead knee in a counter clockwise motion and then everything else just worked out.

    I want to say the reason this didn't work before was because my death grip on the club and tight shoulders would prevent my body from doing a proper rotation and naturally shallow the club.

    Definitely the best range session I've had in a long time.

    The thing is do you think GG's students are really "leaving the hands up" as he says or is this simply an exaggerated feel to make sure you don't yank down on the handle?

    They're definitely not just "leaving the hands up" but to some (me included) that is the feel that needed to be achieved in order to not pull down from the top. Jim Waldron talked about this in another similar thread.

  • chigolfer1chigolfer1 Members Posts: 871 ✭✭

    @Irae133 said:

    @chigolfer1 said:

    @Irae133 said:
    Reviving this thread because there's alot of good information in here and wanted to share my experience.

    I've been struggling with a steep downswing and as a result weak shots to the right and fat shots. Recently, I've had some minor success with a light grip pressure and removing tension throughout the swing but I could still hit those weak and fat shots. I've definitely tried GG's method in the past with no luck but last night at the range I inadvertently taught myself the GG pivot.

    What worked for me was a combination of light grip pressure and no tension in the upper body throughout the swing mixed with GG's leave the arms up in transition and rotate. Once I got in to a good backswing position all I did to start the downswing was use the lead knee in a counter clockwise motion and then everything else just worked out.

    I want to say the reason this didn't work before was because my death grip on the club and tight shoulders would prevent my body from doing a proper rotation and naturally shallow the club.

    Definitely the best range session I've had in a long time.

    The thing is do you think GG's students are really "leaving the hands up" as he says or is this simply an exaggerated feel to make sure you don't yank down on the handle?

    They're definitely not just "leaving the hands up" but to some (me included) that is the feel that needed to be achieved in order to not pull down from the top. Jim Waldron talked about this in another similar thread.

    Yep, it's along the lines of thinking about actually expanding that radius with your hands at the start of the downswing with them going away from the target.

  • Irae133Irae133 Members Posts: 9 ✭✭

    Went out and played 9 after work and shot a +3. I'm not sure if I'm in the honeymoon stages with this new swing or it's the real deal but either way it's working.

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