“Two choices in golf. Improve slowly or not at all”

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  • FatReedFatReed FatReed Unregistered Posts: 601 ✭✭


    I've gotten to the point where I've completely lost my game. It's maddening. I have no earthly idea how to get it back. I can't even grasp the concept of simple things like the takeaway anymore. If I try and watch a video on the takeaway or any other part of the swing, I can't grasp the concepts. I can't realistically afford lessons right now (I have two kids under the age of 2 and $75,000 in student loans).



    I played last weekend and shot 87 with 4 triples and 4 fairways hit. The entire time i'm trying to fix myself. I've over complicated it to the point that I've completely lost it and have been contemplating giving the game up. ( A game I've been in love with since I was 2, when my late-grandpa taught it too me).




    Burt,



    I get it. Most things are more enjoyable as your proficiency improves. Nonetheless, you don’t play golf for a living, so you have zero pressure to perform at any particular level.



    First, at least for a while, abandon keeping score. Then, clear your mind of expectations, and change your focus. Forget about the golf swing motion, and focus on the target - on swinging to the target, and advancing the ball to target. Visualize the desired ball flight to the target. Stay relaxed and within yourself. The ball is not your target, nor what you are trying to ‘hit.’



    If you execute a shot as desired, great! Enjoy the moment. If not, no worries. Enjoy the walk, and put the shot behind you. Stay relaxed and calm, with no expectations. Arrive to ball and visualize the next target, and ball flight you desire. Swing to target with a tension-free and comfortable rhythm/tempo. Never lose your focus of swinging to the target, and desired ball flight.



    Will you hit bad shots? Of course, but who cares? Forget the bad, and enjoy the good. I guarantee you will have plenty of good ones!



    It sounds easy. Too easy to be effective, or fun. It’s not easy. Particularly for those who have embraced the wrong focus and expectations.



    Try it! What do you have to lose? I can guarantee you will have a an ‘improved’ experience!



    FR

  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,481 ✭✭
    As someone who wasted 3 years trying to improve quickly and made the most progress in the last year working slowly on very focused elements of the swing, I can say this statement is extremely true
  • Singapore JoeSingapore Joe Major? Winner? Members Posts: 1,598 ✭✭



    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.


    I'm afraid I disagree on that one. Some people, including yours truly, can really think themselves into pretzels and end up so tangled up that getting to the actual doing never happens. Thinking is often of no use if it doesn't result in decisions and action. There are times when one needs to go on intuition and stop analyzing.



    Playing golf for an average hacker may be one of those times. How often do you see a guy take an eternity in getting ready for a shot and then totally screw it up? I do that if I start over-thinking the shot (ergo: waiting is cryptonite for the game). Better just walk to the ball, check the required distance from the GPS watch and whack the ball. Trust the range sessions to have produced sufficient swing mechanics for that. For good golfers this is probably different as you guys can reasonably expect to achieve more than hit a basic shot to more or less the distance and direction desired.



    There are cases where bad thinking equals to too much thinking.



    On the topic of change, there's an interesting even if a bit on the oldish side book on the difficulty of any change. Makes quite an interesting argument but gets a bit too deep to the Freudian world (to my liking) when discussing the deep inhibitors in the later parts of the book. Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist so that book is far from my area of expertise and it seems that people who are actually trained in development psychology find it a bit thin on substance.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5962102-immunity-to-change
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  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,539 ClubWRX




    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.


    I'm afraid I disagree on that one. Some people, including yours truly, can really think themselves into pretzels and end up so tangled up that getting to the actual doing never happens. Thinking is often of no use if it doesn't result in decisions and action. There are times when one needs to go on intuition and stop analyzing.



    Playing golf for an average hacker may be one of those times. How often do you see a guy take an eternity in getting ready for a shot and then totally screw it up? I do that if I start over-thinking the shot (ergo: waiting is cryptonite for the game). Better just walk to the ball, check the required distance from the GPS watch and whack the ball. Trust the range sessions to have produced sufficient swing mechanics for that. For good golfers this is probably different as you guys can reasonably expect to achieve more than hit a basic shot to more or less the distance and direction desired.



    There are cases where bad thinking equals to too much thinking.



    On the topic of change, there's an interesting even if a bit on the oldish side book on the difficulty of any change. Makes quite an interesting argument but gets a bit too deep to the Freudian world (to my liking) when discussing the deep inhibitors in the later parts of the book. Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist so that book is far from my area of expertise and it seems that people who are actually trained in development psychology find it a bit thin on substance.

    https://www.goodread...unity-to-change


    OK. I understand what you are saying. I think root cause is more about indecision and commitment. Too much information and analysis sort of gets blamed though. I take in all the information available, analyze, decide, and commit. Most of the time it works. Sometimes I gather bad info or make a poor analysis. Committing fully to the decision is always a challenge. Getting it all done in a timely fashion is also a challenge. Ultimately whether you maximize or minimize the thinking, being decisive and confident is absolutely necessary to hitting good golf shots.
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,716 ClubWRX


    A golfwrx regular just posted this on my Facebook.



    Genius in it's simplicty.




    I like that, except when it's NOT true. LOL



    For instance: If I'm talking about a quick, on-course "improvement," it doesn't need to be slowly at all. Sometimes we are just out of sorts in a particular part of the game and a "quick fix" absolutely works. In putting, quite frequently, actually. Ball position creeping too far back? Wow, I had totally not noticed that. Need to move it a bit more forward. All the sudden, putting feels easy again.



    That kind of thing.



    But I will completely agree with you regarding actual improvement in one's overall game. THAT kind of change always happens slowly.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,864 ✭✭
    edited Jul 9, 2018 #127



    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.




    Lol. Depends on if you answer your own stupid questions or not and complete the circle.



    Edit -

    And YOU know I’m talking about MY stupid questions. Just to be clear for the on lookers. Lol.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,864 ✭✭





    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.


    I'm afraid I disagree on that one. Some people, including yours truly, can really think themselves into pretzels and end up so tangled up that getting to the actual doing never happens. Thinking is often of no use if it doesn't result in decisions and action. There are times when one needs to go on intuition and stop analyzing.



    Playing golf for an average hacker may be one of those times. How often do you see a guy take an eternity in getting ready for a shot and then totally screw it up? I do that if I start over-thinking the shot (ergo: waiting is cryptonite for the game). Better just walk to the ball, check the required distance from the GPS watch and whack the ball. Trust the range sessions to have produced sufficient swing mechanics for that. For good golfers this is probably different as you guys can reasonably expect to achieve more than hit a basic shot to more or less the distance and direction desired.



    There are cases where bad thinking equals to too much thinking.



    On the topic of change, there's an interesting even if a bit on the oldish side book on the difficulty of any change. Makes quite an interesting argument but gets a bit too deep to the Freudian world (to my liking) when discussing the deep inhibitors in the later parts of the book. Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist so that book is far from my area of expertise and it seems that people who are actually trained in development psychology find it a bit thin on substance.

    [url="https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5962102-immunity-to-change"]https://www.goodread...unity-to-change[/url]


    OK. I understand what you are saying. I think root cause is more about indecision and commitment. Too much information and analysis sort of gets blamed though. I take in all the information available, analyze, decide, and commit. Most of the time it works. Sometimes I gather bad info or make a poor analysis. Committing fully to the decision is always a challenge. Getting it all done in a timely fashion is also a challenge. Ultimately whether you maximize or minimize the thinking, being decisive and confident is absolutely necessary to hitting good golf shots.




    Yes - that is what I meant with the thinking comment. No such thing as too much info. Just because you have it doesn’t mean you have to let it influence the decision. At least that’s how I see it.
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  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,250 ✭✭
    Used to shoot in the 80s when I was 25.......didnt play for 20 years.....came back went from hack to scratch in about 8 months. I wouldnt call that slow as I was passing up better players every month, no lessons/monitors/fittings all credit goes to mental game as physically weaker then when I was 25. Golf is a mental sport once basics are figured out.... top 1000 players in world all have gorgeous swings so what separates them...braaaains
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  • wadesworldwadesworld Members Posts: 667 ✭✭


    I've gotten to the point where I've completely lost my game. It's maddening. I have no earthly idea how to get it back. I can't even grasp the concept of simple things like the takeaway anymore. If I try and watch a video on the takeaway or any other part of the swing, I can't grasp the concepts. I can't realistically afford lessons right now (I have two kids under the age of 2 and $75,000 in student loans).



    I played last weekend and shot 87 with 4 triples and 4 fairways hit. The entire time i'm trying to fix myself. I've over complicated it to the point that I've completely lost it and have been contemplating giving the game up. ( A game I've been in love with since I was 2, when my late-grandpa taught it too me).




    I have no idea what you shot before, but an 87 isn't bad at all.



    That said, in your situation, I'd highly advise looking at the Shawn Clement material. He's got about 400 free videos, and he's all about making golf less complicated. Perfect for your situation.



    Feel fee to hit me up via PM if you're not understanding concepts or want direction on which videos address specific areas.
  • leekgolfleekgolf Members Posts: 1,171 ✭✭

    terrell75 wrote:
    I see a lot of commentary about focus vs change vs time... etc.



    There is a difference between being able to perform an action one time, several times, and whenever you choose.



    Each represents a different level of golf. Even at the highest level many golfers hit the ball one way (low, draw, fade, etc). Quite a few can call up a particular shot from their “bank”, but they have had to work to build their “bank” accounts. Realizing a limitation on a certain account may result in a desire to transfer funds to a different account with a greater potential.



    Here is my point, to support Monte’s general statement. Ingrained change is physiological. The focus some of you refer to is not a magical energy, it is a physical sequence (neurons, nerves, muscles, etc.... all physical things).



    I recommend anyone who wants to learn more about why certain golfers can adapt quickly while others struggle, read a book called The Talent Code. It will explain many things from a scientific perspective, and maybe shed some light on this topic. Anyone wonder why a newborn horse can stand and run in a matter of hours after birth, but a newborn human cannot and takes several months to develop these abilities? Read the book, get smarter (grow more neurons and strengthen neural pathways).




    I was thinking about Talent Code as I thought about this thread. I was especially recalling a story about this music student of average talent who, one day, out of the blue, was utterly more focused and playing way above her normal level. Then next time she was back to regular performance.



    It is one thing to have a peak performance. It is entirely another to make that peak performance become the baseline.



    The other thing I thought was Talent Code talked about the cultural/environmental support that all led to the motivation behind all that focused practice. Part of the real challenge for most golfers is change is, indeed, hard, all those comments to contrary notwithstanding. The key is sustaining motivation and enthusiasm through the process so that you stick with it. That’s the critical element.




    I too thought of the Talent Code when I started to read this thread, then when Monte posted about motor pathways myelin popped into my head.
  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,481 ✭✭
    edited Jul 9, 2018 #132


    I've gotten to the point where I've completely lost my game. It's maddening. I have no earthly idea how to get it back. I can't even grasp the concept of simple things like the takeaway anymore. If I try and watch a video on the takeaway or any other part of the swing, I can't grasp the concepts. I can't realistically afford lessons right now (I have two kids under the age of 2 and $75,000 in student loans).



    I played last weekend and shot 87 with 4 triples and 4 fairways hit. The entire time i'm trying to fix myself. I've over complicated it to the point that I've completely lost it and have been contemplating giving the game up. ( A game I've been in love with since I was 2, when my late-grandpa taught it too me).




    This is exactly where the improve slowly part comes into play. Part of improving slowly is learning to break down and understand your own swing, what your major swing faults are, what compensations you do accordingly to get the ball in play, and figuring out what you need to do in order to fix the faults (some can do this solo, others need professional help). From all that stems the actual improvement in play.



    I personally bought too much into results, and based my improvement purely on what the ball was doing all while ingraining some very bad habits and compensations. It was great seeing the ball flight I wanted...until it wasn't, I over cooked it, and my scores inflated



    Second round I was more diligent, such that I know my swing and all of its faults, if it starts to get ugly on the course I generally know why and what I needs to be done to right the ship and salvage the round. Without this knowledge it can be a mess, trying new/different changes while on the tee box typically results in something awful.
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,539 ClubWRX






    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.


    I'm afraid I disagree on that one. Some people, including yours truly, can really think themselves into pretzels and end up so tangled up that getting to the actual doing never happens. Thinking is often of no use if it doesn't result in decisions and action. There are times when one needs to go on intuition and stop analyzing.



    Playing golf for an average hacker may be one of those times. How often do you see a guy take an eternity in getting ready for a shot and then totally screw it up? I do that if I start over-thinking the shot (ergo: waiting is cryptonite for the game). Better just walk to the ball, check the required distance from the GPS watch and whack the ball. Trust the range sessions to have produced sufficient swing mechanics for that. For good golfers this is probably different as you guys can reasonably expect to achieve more than hit a basic shot to more or less the distance and direction desired.



    There are cases where bad thinking equals to too much thinking.



    On the topic of change, there's an interesting even if a bit on the oldish side book on the difficulty of any change. Makes quite an interesting argument but gets a bit too deep to the Freudian world (to my liking) when discussing the deep inhibitors in the later parts of the book. Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist so that book is far from my area of expertise and it seems that people who are actually trained in development psychology find it a bit thin on substance.

    https://www.goodread...unity-to-change


    OK. I understand what you are saying. I think root cause is more about indecision and commitment. Too much information and analysis sort of gets blamed though. I take in all the information available, analyze, decide, and commit. Most of the time it works. Sometimes I gather bad info or make a poor analysis. Committing fully to the decision is always a challenge. Getting it all done in a timely fashion is also a challenge. Ultimately whether you maximize or minimize the thinking, being decisive and confident is absolutely necessary to hitting good golf shots.




    Yes - that is what I meant with the thinking comment. No such thing as too much info. Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to let it influence the decision. At least that's how I see it.


    Yep. You synthesize an answer based on the available information weighted accordingly. For example I watch every putt hit by everyone in my group. I don't, however, weight each result 100%. You have to watch the stroke as well as the resulting ball motion. Poorly struck putts provide green reading misinformation. Weight that information 100% at your peril!
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,701 ✭✭
    Haha. Simple initial premise = 7 pages.
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  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Members Posts: 19,891 ✭✭


    Haha. Simple initial premise = 7 pages.




    Simple, and probably fun to discuss over beers at the end of the round when deep thought is not required, but in all things, the truth is a little more involved than that.
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  • Singapore JoeSingapore Joe Major? Winner? Members Posts: 1,598 ✭✭





    Is there a such thing as thinking too much?


    No. Thinking poorly can be an issue.


    I'm afraid I disagree on that one. Some people, including yours truly, can really think themselves into pretzels and end up so tangled up that getting to the actual doing never happens. Thinking is often of no use if it doesn't result in decisions and action. There are times when one needs to go on intuition and stop analyzing.



    Playing golf for an average hacker may be one of those times. How often do you see a guy take an eternity in getting ready for a shot and then totally screw it up? I do that if I start over-thinking the shot (ergo: waiting is cryptonite for the game). Better just walk to the ball, check the required distance from the GPS watch and whack the ball. Trust the range sessions to have produced sufficient swing mechanics for that. For good golfers this is probably different as you guys can reasonably expect to achieve more than hit a basic shot to more or less the distance and direction desired.



    There are cases where bad thinking equals to too much thinking.



    On the topic of change, there's an interesting even if a bit on the oldish side book on the difficulty of any change. Makes quite an interesting argument but gets a bit too deep to the Freudian world (to my liking) when discussing the deep inhibitors in the later parts of the book. Disclaimer: I'm a computer scientist so that book is far from my area of expertise and it seems that people who are actually trained in development psychology find it a bit thin on substance.

    https://www.goodread...unity-to-change


    OK. I understand what you are saying. I think root cause is more about indecision and commitment. Too much information and analysis sort of gets blamed though. I take in all the information available, analyze, decide, and commit. Most of the time it works. Sometimes I gather bad info or make a poor analysis. Committing fully to the decision is always a challenge. Getting it all done in a timely fashion is also a challenge. Ultimately whether you maximize or minimize the thinking, being decisive and confident is absolutely necessary to hitting good golf shots.




    Let's hypothetically assume that each shot has a landing area which is an estimated probability distribution on where the shot will land. Then there is the shot shape, spin and all that but basically all that can be worked into the probability distribution. It is safe to say that for good golfers the area of the probability distribution is considerably small and for less than stellar golfers the area is quite large - the longer the shot the larger the area. This is fairly obvious, good golfers aim at very precisely defined landing areas. Average golfers just want the ball into a general area.



    With this in mind, I would argue that difficult shots (i.e. high risk shots in which a considerable proportion of the expected landing area is covered by places one does not want to end up) are harder to commit to as there are all sorts of lingering thoughts in the back of the head. What if I miss and end up in this trouble or that trouble. Those thoughts occur because one has to consider excessive amount of information which causes hesitation and that hesitation often results in a poor shot. In fact, they probably are the cause of a poor shot. If one removes that information, e.g. aims to a safe part of the green where it's all sunshine and lollipops, no bunkers and dragons on, say, 90% of the shots, the shot is a lot likely to be successful because one can be confident of the outcome.



    This is a ridiculously complicated way of saying that too much information results in poor commitment and one should remove hesitation by good course management (i.e. removing unnecessary trouble which is information in this case) as hesitation kills shots. Which is basically the same thing you say about committing to shot.
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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,210 ✭✭
    Good thread, good topic.



    I'm into year 3, so I buy in to thread title and over time my thoughts has distilled in this manner. . There are three interdependent aspects that need co-development for long haul improvement.



    1) The mental awareness and maturation of mental state.Folks in the "proper focus" camp reside here. Game play resides here.

    2) The physical evolution of the player's swing. Implementing sound mechanics to a sub conscious level. Often this means starting in slow thinking mode and using thousands of reps to shed old and ingrain new movements that have new triggers and feels.

    3) The intellectual grasp of the what, why & how of advanced swing mechanics. A sound understanding of principles and commonalities and how you rate to them



    #3 can take an awful long time and there's a good chance of being "too smart by a half" on it for much of time. But the internet, videos, computer analysis have done a lot of good advancing the general knowledge base more so than say 20 years ago.



    #1 is a skill set that warrants a lot of respect and attention and most solid players have a good measure of development with this. It often separates men from boys.



    #2 is the plodding cumbersome elephant that we are talking over. Swing development is like child development. Proper, early stimulation pays dividends later in life. Some are fortunate there, I've played with sub 5 guys, some were natural, some cultivated it as youth, some were 5th degree karate masters, each and all were blessed in some way. I watched "Golf My Way", took away all the wrong lessons from it and spent 25 years ingraining stupidity.If it takes another 5 (it won't) so be it.



    Personally at one time #1 was in full fire but was hampered by #2, which in turn was hampered by #3. Taken years to pull up #2 & #3 and #1 is definitely the last to arrive back in full form but I'm patient, it all remains fun.
  • FlyingLaw1FlyingLaw1 MOMembers Posts: 837 ✭✭
    For me... Its not the improving slowly. It's the retraction that comes with beginning a major change. Nothing I've experienced has taught me more about perseverance quite like a swing change!
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  • jekatojekato Members Posts: 90
    edited Jul 10, 2018 #139
    A Navy SEAL discussing their approach in addressing new techniques, especially during the recent Thai cave rescue: "slow is smooth and smooth is fast". Good stuff, the last extraction took 2 hours less time than the first.
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  • FullOfBrushManFullOfBrushMan Members Posts: 666 ✭✭
    jekato wrote:


    A Navy SEAL discussing their approach in addressing new techniques, especially during the recent Thai cave rescue: "slow is smooth and smooth is fast". Good stuff, the last extraction took 2 hours less time than the first.


    Love that reference. That being said being in the right environment cuts that time drastically. Which when applied to golf is extremely hard to be in.
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,701 ✭✭
    Nard_S wrote:
    Good thread, good topic.



    I'm into year 3, so I buy in to thread title and over time my thoughts has distilled in this manner. . There are three interdependent aspects that need co-development for long haul improvement.



    1) The mental awareness and maturation of mental state.Folks in the "proper focus" camp reside here. Game play resides here.

    2) The physical evolution of the player's swing. Implementing sound mechanics to a sub conscious level. Often this means starting in slow thinking mode and using thousands of reps to shed old and ingrain new movements that have new triggers and feels.

    3) The intellectual grasp of the what, why & how of advanced swing mechanics. A sound understanding of principles and commonalities and how you rate to them



    #3 can take an awful long time and there's a good chance of being "too smart by a half" on it for much of time. But the internet, videos, computer analysis have done a lot of good advancing the general knowledge base more so than say 20 years ago.



    #1 is a skill set that warrants a lot of respect and attention and most solid players have a good measure of development with this. It often separates men from boys.



    #2 is the plodding cumbersome elephant that we are talking over. Swing development is like child development. Proper, early stimulation pays dividends later in life. Some are fortunate there, I've played with sub 5 guys, some were natural, some cultivated it as youth, some were 5th degree karate masters, each and all were blessed in some way. I watched "Golf My Way", took away all the wrong lessons from it and spent 25 years ingraining stupidity.If it takes another 5 (it won't) so be it.



    Personally at one time #1 was in full fire but was hampered by #2, which in turn was hampered by #3. Taken years to pull up #2 & #3 and #1 is definitely the last to arrive back in full form but I'm patient, it all remains fun.




    Great points. The baseline of understanding about the swing (and playing the game) has a lot to do with a person’s speed of development. I can grasp and improve my swing now MUCH more rapidly and efficiently now than five years ago. There’s still the need for reps to gain trust (=unconscious competence) but that process is now much quicker.



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  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey Members Posts: 402 ✭✭
    I don't totally buy the premise of this thread's title. I generally observe periods of very rapid improvement, followed by longer periods of plateau. Overall, it might be "slow" (years), but those periods of improvement can be quite dramatically fast. This pattern seems to be the case with most skills, be it athletic or otherwise.
  • bazinkybazinky Members Posts: 1,654 ✭✭
    nemoblack wrote:


    I don't totally buy the premise of this thread's title. I generally observe periods of very rapid improvement, followed by longer periods of plateau. Overall, it might be "slow" (years), but those periods of improvement can be quite dramatically fast. This pattern seems to be the case with most skills, be it athletic or otherwise.




    From my golf experience, I've noticed that there isn't always a exact correlation in improvement in golf skills and improvement in scoring. Personally, I've found my overall skill level improves pretty gradually, but it often takes a while for it to "click" in terms of scoring, if that makes any sense.



    That said, there is also a distinction between refining and improving something you are already pretty doing well, and correcting something you were doing fundamentally wrong. Correcting a fundamental mistake can lead to extremely rapid improvement in people with good athletic skills.
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  • naval2006naval2006 ArgentinaMembers Posts: 966 ✭✭
    If you took up the game a couple years ago at 40 you have a real chance to improve if you work hard. You can't imagine how hard it is to have played very well when you were young and your game slowly and inevitably deteriorates to the point you've got to accept this or give up.
  • MrJonesMrJones Waiting for the weekend... Members Posts: 2,724 ✭✭
    Barfolomew wrote:


    Used to shoot in the 80s when I was 25.......didnt play for 20 years.....came back went from hack to scratch in about 8 months. I wouldnt call that slow as I was passing up better players every month, no lessons/monitors/fittings all credit goes to mental game as physically weaker then when I was 25. Golf is a mental sport once basics are figured out.... top 1000 players in world all have gorgeous swings so what separates them...braaaains




    How often were you playing/practicing during that 8 month stretch?
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,701 ✭✭
    nemoblack wrote:
    I don't totally buy the premise of this thread's title. I generally observe periods of very rapid improvement, followed by longer periods of plateau. Overall, it might be "slow" (years), but those periods of improvement can be quite dramatically fast. This pattern seems to be the case with most skills, be it athletic or otherwise.




    I have also seen this.. you build and build and build and finally, in a moment, it clicks.



    Meanwhile, though, when sustained motivation is so important, maybe the single most important thing I learned from Monte was improvement is measured by seeing new move done better 1/10 then 3/10 then 6/10.... this incremental progress is the ‘build’ phase.
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  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,481 ✭✭

    nemoblack wrote:
    I don't totally buy the premise of this thread's title. I generally observe periods of very rapid improvement, followed by longer periods of plateau. Overall, it might be "slow" (years), but those periods of improvement can be quite dramatically fast. This pattern seems to be the case with most skills, be it athletic or otherwise.




    I have also seen this.. you build and build and build and finally, in a moment, it clicks.



    Meanwhile, though, when sustained motivation is so important, maybe the single most important thing I learned from Monte was improvement is measured by seeing new move done better 1/10 then 3/10 then 6/10.... this incremental progress is the ‘build’ phase.




    Indeed, most folks dont just go to the range, have something click, and improve dramatically.



    Those who have a dramatic break-through likely have put in lots of reps, lots of time, slowly fixing all the little parts, and then finally put it all together and see the fruits of their efforts. I've shaved almost 9 strokes off my index in the last year but I don't think that would happened without all the wheel spinning I did for the year prior.Even those I didn't see the results on the course, now looking back it still had legitimate value
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,701 ✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:


    nemoblack wrote:
    I don't totally buy the premise of this thread's title. I generally observe periods of very rapid improvement, followed by longer periods of plateau. Overall, it might be "slow" (years), but those periods of improvement can be quite dramatically fast. This pattern seems to be the case with most skills, be it athletic or otherwise.




    I have also seen this.. you build and build and build and finally, in a moment, it clicks.



    Meanwhile, though, when sustained motivation is so important, maybe the single most important thing I learned from Monte was improvement is measured by seeing new move done better 1/10 then 3/10 then 6/10.... this incremental progress is the ‘build’ phase.




    Indeed, most folks dont just go to the range, have something click, and improve dramatically.



    Those who have a dramatic break-through likely have put in lots of reps, lots of time, slowly fixing all the little parts, and then finally put it all together and see the fruits of their efforts. I've shaved almost 9 strokes off my index in the last year but I don't think that would happened without all the wheel spinning I did for the year prior.Even those I didn't see the results on the course, now looking back it still had legitimate value




    My favorite writer re consciousness development (Ken Wilber) says that breakthru's in awareness are also leaps vs continuous incremental. I guess you keep pushing on a new neural pathway until finally it forms, for both awareness and golf improvement.
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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,210 ✭✭




    My favorite writer re consciousness development (Ken Wilber) says that breakthru's in awareness are also leaps vs continuous incremental. I guess you keep pushing on a new neural pathway until finally it forms, for both awareness and golf improvement.




    Yes, find that to be very true. It's often right in front of your nose too, then you go "Aha!"
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,230 ✭✭
    Some have misunderstood slow as meaning you can’t make a leap in scores with a simple improvement. That’s not what was meant by the phrase or me.



    Change that sticks and is done without much thought is this...



    from "unconscious incompetence" to "conscious incompetence" to "conscious competence" to "unconscious competence".
  • Sean2Sean2 #TheWRX (Callaway Trip) Members Posts: 30,826 ✭✭
    naval2006 wrote:


    If you took up the game a couple years ago at 40 you have a real chance to improve if you work hard. You can't imagine how hard it is to have played very well when you were young and your game slowly and inevitably deteriorates to the point you've got to accept this or give up.




    I took up the game at 50, and I play with a lot of folks who lament how much distance they have lost and how their HI's have increased. So the one blessing of picking up the game late is I don't have any of those frustrations.
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