Ban Green-Reading Books?

2

Comments

  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Posts: 818 ✭✭

    Jc0 wrote:


    Jc0 wrote:



    I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map. My experience is that they are of very little value. The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks. They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.




    The ones the pros have are far more detailed. They basically cover every square foot of the green and give slope value at each point.




    You still have to guess where the pin and your ball are located.





    Anybody have a picture of the "Pro green books" mentioned above? I would like to see how different they are from these;



    [url="https://progreenbook.com/"]https://progreenbook.com/[/url]




    Go to the tour page to see how detailed the tour books are.



    [url="https://www.greenbookusa.com/tour/tournament-green-books"]https://www.greenboo...ent-green-books[/url]




    That's the same site I posted. You still have to guess where the pin and ball are located.




    Quadrants are 5 paces by 5 paces . Not terribly hard to find that location , assuming you can use some common sense
  • bigchucksrbigchucksr Members Posts: 306 ✭✭

    bigchucksr wrote:


    This is an interesting discussion, after watching the Open last week and seeing the profusion of both yardage books and green charts being used, a question came to mind--"what is the difference between these books and a gps system?"

    I'd much prefer a "natural" game where the golfer and caddie make the decisions based on what they know and see before them--tee to green--every shot, every putt.

    It would be interesting to see who then emerged from the pack as the "best reader" of the green or the "best reader" of the course as a whole--adding a new (once old) dimension to the professional game.

    I for one am a bit tired of the routine of a player and caddie intently studying some illustrated book before every shot/putt during the round.

    I say turn 'em loose and let's see who can conquer a golf course naturally without outside assistance.




    And ban caddies so they don't get any outside assistance?
    I don't get your analogy. Caddies have always been part of the "team" in professional (and in some cases amateur) golf. Explain, if you can, the difference between these publications and the banned GPS systems available to all golfers.
  • clublenderclublender Sponsors Posts: 53

    Jc0 wrote:


    Jc0 wrote:



    I don't know how many of you have actually used a green map. My experience is that they are of very little value. The ones I have tried to use don't tell you which way your putt breaks. They just show the contours and you have to estimate where your ball lies on those little maps and where the pin is located.




    The ones the pros have are far more detailed. They basically cover every square foot of the green and give slope value at each point.




    You still have to guess where the pin and your ball are located.



    Anybody have a picture of the "Pro green books" mentioned above? I would like to see how different they are from these;



    https://progreenbook.com/




    Go to the tour page to see how detailed the tour books are.



    https://www.greenboo...ent-green-books




    That's the same site I posted. You still have to guess where the pin and ball are located.




    Looks like a topographical map on steroids, but figuring out exactly where your ball is and the pin would still be a challenge.
  • clublenderclublender Sponsors Posts: 53
    bigchucksr wrote:


    bigchucksr wrote:


    This is an interesting discussion, after watching the Open last week and seeing the profusion of both yardage books and green charts being used, a question came to mind--"what is the difference between these books and a gps system?"

    I'd much prefer a "natural" game where the golfer and caddie make the decisions based on what they know and see before them--tee to green--every shot, every putt.

    It would be interesting to see who then emerged from the pack as the "best reader" of the green or the "best reader" of the course as a whole--adding a new (once old) dimension to the professional game.

    I for one am a bit tired of the routine of a player and caddie intently studying some illustrated book before every shot/putt during the round.

    I say turn 'em loose and let's see who can conquer a golf course naturally without outside assistance.




    And ban caddies so they don't get any outside assistance?
    I don't get your analogy. Caddies have always been part of the "team" in professional (and in some cases amateur) golf. Explain, if you can, the difference between these publications and the banned GPS systems available to all golfers.




    Golf has changed a great deal, from the golfer and caddie, who long ago was often just a kid, alone to a team approach. Jordan Spieth, for example, will often say "we" and talk about his team, including his caddie, chiropractor, manager, trainer and so forth. https://www.businessinsider.com/jordan-spieth-golf-game-2015-8 With so much on the line for pros these days, they can afford to use everything they can to improve, and for many of them, that means a team approach. It seems the green-reading book is just a small part of that, although looking at the books with all their plethora of markings, golfers should probably also hire a cartographer for their team.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,066 ✭✭
    bigchucksr wrote:


    bigchucksr wrote:


    This is an interesting discussion, after watching the Open last week and seeing the profusion of both yardage books and green charts being used, a question came to mind--"what is the difference between these books and a gps system?"

    I'd much prefer a "natural" game where the golfer and caddie make the decisions based on what they know and see before them--tee to green--every shot, every putt.

    It would be interesting to see who then emerged from the pack as the "best reader" of the green or the "best reader" of the course as a whole--adding a new (once old) dimension to the professional game.

    I for one am a bit tired of the routine of a player and caddie intently studying some illustrated book before every shot/putt during the round.

    I say turn 'em loose and let's see who can conquer a golf course naturally without outside assistance.




    And ban caddies so they don't get any outside assistance?
    I don't get your analogy. Caddies have always been part of the "team" in professional (and in some cases amateur) golf. Explain, if you can, the difference between these publications and the banned GPS systems available to all golfers.




    No difference. But if the goal is to make the player rely only on his own skills, then ban all assistance including caddies.



    However, I don't support that goal so I think they should be able to use green books, caddie advice and GPS equipment.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,066 ✭✭
    clublender wrote:


    Looks like a topographical map on steroids, but figuring out exactly where your ball is and the pin would still be a challenge.




    That's what I thought when I tried to use one. You have to locate your ball and the hole EXACTLY or you could get bad info. If you are off by even two feet for either the ball or hole, you could get bad info.



    And if you take more than 15 - 20 seconds to do so, you playing partners are going to be all over you for slow play.
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Posts: 1,744 ✭✭
    if You spend time with anyone that knows how to locate on the books that Mark Long makes for the tour,

    It is very simple to place yourself in the correct spot.

    The hole locations have also gotten incredibly accurate, which simplifies the process a lot.



    You are correct that being off by a couple feet can influence the reads greatly.

    But learning the process, is not too difficult
  • mankumanku Posts: 667 ✭✭
    What bothers me, and the apparel companies can't be happy, is the awful look of a what looks like a yellow pages (apologies to those under 30, or is it 40, who have never seen one!) stuffed into their back pocket.



    And I can't imagine it's comfortable either...I don't like anything except tees, a golf ball (or two) and some ball markers in my pants pockets.
  • FergusonFerguson Executive Member VAMembers Posts: 4,431 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:


    So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?



    I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.






    I never liked art class, therefore Ferg can't help.
  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHPosts: 3,015 ✭✭
    Ferguson wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?



    I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.






    I never liked art class, therefore Ferg can't help.




    Thank you for essentially bumping my post. I'm still waiting for an answer.
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5* @44.5"
    In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods

    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 5W = 19*
    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue @41.5" 7W = 23*
    Cobra F7 One Length Irons
    Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
    6I = 24* 7I = 29* 8I = 34* 9I = 39* PW = 44* GW = 49* SW = 54* LW = 59*
    Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled @33.5"
    Maxfli SoftFli
  • FergusonFerguson Executive Member VAMembers Posts: 4,431 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:

    Ferguson wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?



    I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.






    I never liked art class, therefore Ferg can't help.




    Thank you for essentially bumping my post. I'm still waiting for an answer.






    It bugs me that they want to ban printed material. The guy still needs to make the putt.



  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf Members Posts: 3,309 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:

    Ferguson wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?



    I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.






    I never liked art class, therefore Ferg can't help.




    Thank you for essentially bumping my post. I'm still waiting for an answer.




    You won't get an answer because there's not an easy one. Many believe in minimalist golf that goes back to the Hogan and prior days, they want rolled back equipment, banning of green books, minimal caddie involvement, etc. I still contend that despite all the technology advancements, the game is still very hard to master.



    I don't think green books are much better than what golfers and caddies created on their own, nor do they take more time to use compared to the gyrations I see some golfers go through to read a putt or the endless consultation with caddies that happens in the LPGA. I think the best answer is put golfers on a shot clock when their ball and their bodies reach the green. Let them refer to a book, consult with their caddie, use their own yardage book or phone a friend so long as they do it in the allotted time.
    Driver - Ping G400 MAX 10.5*
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-GW Away - Ping i500 5-AW
    Wedge - Vokey TVD 56* K Grind
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Posts: 935 ✭✭
    clublender wrote:


    Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?




    What skills are essential "golf skills" you want to test? I think it would be interesting to have the guys get their own yardages (by estimating them on course, no markers or sprinkler heads, etc.) as I personally believe that estimating yardage is a golf skill. Pin placement maps, yardage books, etc. have eliminated blind shots in essence and have also killed some of the depth perception tricks employed by architects. Thus course knowledge and prior homework is slightly nullified.



    I don't need to see featheries and niblicks but estimating yardage is a skill and the lengthy conversations have slowed down the pro game. And unfortunately Jimmy Shanks at the local muni is taking his cues from the tour.



    I've told this here before but bohica:

    Weekend before last I was waiting on the tee on a par five. An adjoining par five green is just uphill from this tee box. I hear the approach shot hit the green and bounce off the back. No more than 25 yards tops off the back of the green. Tour visor guy (what he was wearing) rolls up in cart, locks the brakes, and cussing, jumps out to survey the damage. He pulls his trusty bushnell and gets his yardage at all of 25 yards. I nearly lost my **** right there on the tee.




    Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.




    Or is it a perceived advantage that if one guy is using them they must all use it to keep the playing field level in their minds? Wonder how many times a guy gives that dumb look and arm wave in the opposite direction of the break after missing a putt was the result of that book?
  • Night trainNight train Members Posts: 2,818 ✭✭
    While we're at it............let's do away with drawing lines on the ball for lining up putts! It's an alignment aid and should be banned.



    ..........and get off my lawn!
  • SavageCySavageCy Members Posts: 133 ✭✭
    new2g0lf wrote:

    rawdog wrote:

    Ferguson wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    So what publicly-available information can be documented and referenced, and what can't?



    I'm trying to figure out where to draw the line. No one has helped me draw it.






    I never liked art class, therefore Ferg can't help.




    Thank you for essentially bumping my post. I'm still waiting for an answer.




    You won't get an answer because there's not an easy one. Many believe in minimalist golf that goes back to the Hogan and prior days, they want rolled back equipment, banning of green books, minimal caddie involvement, etc. I still contend that despite all the technology advancements, the game is still very hard to master.



    I don't think green books are much better than what golfers and caddies created on their own, nor do they take more time to use compared to the gyrations I see some golfers go through to read a putt or the endless consultation with caddies that happens in the LPGA. I think the best answer is put golfers on a shot clock when their ball and their bodies reach the green. Let them refer to a book, consult with their caddie, use their own yardage book or phone a friend so long as they do it in the allotted time.




    This
    TS3 9.5* w Evenflow T-1100 White 6.0
    '17 M1 15* w Hzrdus Black 6.0
    716 T-MB 3 w AD 95X
    716 T-MB 4 w C Taper Lite X
    916AP2 5-9 w C Taper Lite X
    SM6 47* SM5 51* 55* 59* w C Taper Lite X
    8802 w SS Pistol GT 2.0/TM DJ Spider w SS Pistol GT 2.0/Studio Stainless Newport 2 w SS Pistol GT 2.0
  • clublenderclublender Sponsors Posts: 53


    While we're at it............let's do away with drawing lines on the ball for lining up putts! It's an alignment aid and should be banned.



    ..........and get off my lawn!


    At least pros are not allowed to draw a line on the green. They could use the paint like soccer/football refs do to mark off where a penalty kick is from and how far back defenders have to stand.
  • wrmillerwrmiller Members Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    smashdn wrote:

    clublender wrote:


    Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?




    What skills are essential "golf skills" you want to test? I think it would be interesting to have the guys get their own yardages (by estimating them on course, no markers or sprinkler heads, etc.) as I personally believe that estimating yardage is a golf skill. Pin placement maps, yardage books, etc. have eliminated blind shots in essence and have also killed some of the depth perception tricks employed by architects. Thus course knowledge and prior homework is slightly nullified.



    I don't need to see featheries and niblicks but estimating yardage is a skill and the lengthy conversations have slowed down the pro game. And unfortunately Jimmy Shanks at the local muni is taking his cues from the tour.



    I've told this here before but bohica:

    Weekend before last I was waiting on the tee on a par five. An adjoining par five green is just uphill from this tee box. I hear the approach shot hit the green and bounce off the back. No more than 25 yards tops off the back of the green. Tour visor guy (what he was wearing) rolls up in cart, locks the brakes, and cussing, jumps out to survey the damage. He pulls his trusty bushnell and gets his yardage at all of 25 yards. I nearly lost my **** right there on the tee.




    Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.




    Or is it a perceived advantage that if one guy is using them they must all use it to keep the playing field level in their minds? Wonder how many times a guy gives that dumb look and arm wave in the opposite direction of the break after missing a putt was the result of that book?




    I have always thought that pros shouldn't have access to anything that a weekend golfer doesn't have when showing up at the local muni. Including caddies. No forecaddies either. Let them go find their own ball. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Might be fun to watch. Or not.
    Primary bag:
    Titleist 913 D3 8.5
    Titleist 915Fd 13.5
    Titleist 913h 17
    Mizuno MP-18 4-PW
    Scratch wedges 50, 55, and 60
    Bettinardi mid-shank putter

    Backup bag:
    Ping G400 9
    Ping G30 fw 13
    Ping G30 hybrid 19
    Ping iBlade 4-PW power spec
    Macgregor VIP wedges 51, 56, and 60
    Bettinardi mid-shank putter
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Posts: 935 ✭✭
    edited Aug 1, 2018 #49


    While we're at it............let's do away with drawing lines on the ball for lining up putts! It's an alignment aid and should be banned.



    ..........and get off my lawn!




    I could be wrong but drawing a line on your golf glove is verbodden by the rules. I seem to recall a Golf Digest tip from way back concerning grip that had pictures with a glove with lines drawn on it in Sharpie. It had the little disclaimer that doing so was not allowed by the rules.



    If you think about it would be darn handy to draw some lines on the grip of your club to open and close the face certain amounts to correspond with certain amounts of cut and draw.



    My point, if you can't draw lines on your glove as a reminder for your grip why in the world is drawing a line on a required and regulated by the rules piece of equipment (the ball) be allowed?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf Members Posts: 3,309 ✭✭
    It's just another unenforceable rule that will be surrounded in controversy. Breed had a USGA official on this morning, discussing the books and how they plan to inspect each players yardage book at the beginning of a tournament. Basically golfers will be prohibited from using published books or photocopies taped into their yardage books but they can practice with them. It will be up to the golfers integrity to ensure anything handwritten into their yardage book does not violate the rule.



    IMHO, it's another stupid rule by the USGA / R&A that can't be properly enforced, won't change scoring and will likely slow down the game even more.
    Driver - Ping G400 MAX 10.5*
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-GW Away - Ping i500 5-AW
    Wedge - Vokey TVD 56* K Grind
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,012 ✭✭
    Burn the books! Burn the books! I want full censorship! Seeing those contours is golf pornography.



    ......anything to speed up play I guess.....I just wish they would make up their minds.



    Hogan never had a yardage book and didn't speak to his caddie, just eyeballed everything. Jack and Dean Beman started the yardage book craze.



    I say, let them use GPS, lasers, books charts graphs, ouji boards whatever they want, just finish in 4 hours with a 3-some and 3.5 with a 2-some.



    The USGA has turned into a bunch of micro managing, hand wringing, sniveling red tape printing, anal retentive, bureaucrats.



    "Mr. DeShampoo, please let us examine the grooves on those there wedgies, and is that a compass in your pocket or are you just happy to see us?" "What? is that an encyclopedia in your pocket? Now, now, there is no time for reading on the golf course, such frivolous activities must only be shared on instagram with your significant other"



    You know what gives the leaders a bigger advantage than anything? They get to watch the morning groups play the course and see what's going on before they even tee off. THAT is and advantage, a real advantage. What are they gonna do, sequester the whole field and not let them watch TV before they tee off?



    The road to ****.....

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • clublenderclublender Sponsors Posts: 53
    wrmiller wrote:

    smashdn wrote:

    clublender wrote:


    Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?




    What skills are essential "golf skills" you want to test? I think it would be interesting to have the guys get their own yardages (by estimating them on course, no markers or sprinkler heads, etc.) as I personally believe that estimating yardage is a golf skill. Pin placement maps, yardage books, etc. have eliminated blind shots in essence and have also killed some of the depth perception tricks employed by architects. Thus course knowledge and prior homework is slightly nullified.



    I don't need to see featheries and niblicks but estimating yardage is a skill and the lengthy conversations have slowed down the pro game. And unfortunately Jimmy Shanks at the local muni is taking his cues from the tour.



    I've told this here before but bohica:

    Weekend before last I was waiting on the tee on a par five. An adjoining par five green is just uphill from this tee box. I hear the approach shot hit the green and bounce off the back. No more than 25 yards tops off the back of the green. Tour visor guy (what he was wearing) rolls up in cart, locks the brakes, and cussing, jumps out to survey the damage. He pulls his trusty bushnell and gets his yardage at all of 25 yards. I nearly lost my **** right there on the tee.




    Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.




    Or is it a perceived advantage that if one guy is using them they must all use it to keep the playing field level in their minds? Wonder how many times a guy gives that dumb look and arm wave in the opposite direction of the break after missing a putt was the result of that book?




    I have always thought that pros shouldn't have access to anything that a weekend golfer doesn't have when showing up at the local muni. Including caddies. No forecaddies either. Let them go find their own ball. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Might be fun to watch. Or not.


    I wonder how the pros would do playing at some local muni, and NOT Torrey Pines or Bethpage Black: dried out fairways, bumpy greens, uneven and unraked sand traps, divot holes, and tee boxes that look slightly worse than an ill-kept backyard.
  • wrmillerwrmiller Members Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    clublender wrote:

    wrmiller wrote:

    smashdn wrote:

    clublender wrote:


    Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?




    What skills are essential "golf skills" you want to test? I think it would be interesting to have the guys get their own yardages (by estimating them on course, no markers or sprinkler heads, etc.) as I personally believe that estimating yardage is a golf skill. Pin placement maps, yardage books, etc. have eliminated blind shots in essence and have also killed some of the depth perception tricks employed by architects. Thus course knowledge and prior homework is slightly nullified.



    I don't need to see featheries and niblicks but estimating yardage is a skill and the lengthy conversations have slowed down the pro game. And unfortunately Jimmy Shanks at the local muni is taking his cues from the tour.



    I've told this here before but bohica:

    Weekend before last I was waiting on the tee on a par five. An adjoining par five green is just uphill from this tee box. I hear the approach shot hit the green and bounce off the back. No more than 25 yards tops off the back of the green. Tour visor guy (what he was wearing) rolls up in cart, locks the brakes, and cussing, jumps out to survey the damage. He pulls his trusty bushnell and gets his yardage at all of 25 yards. I nearly lost my **** right there on the tee.




    Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.




    Or is it a perceived advantage that if one guy is using them they must all use it to keep the playing field level in their minds? Wonder how many times a guy gives that dumb look and arm wave in the opposite direction of the break after missing a putt was the result of that book?




    I have always thought that pros shouldn't have access to anything that a weekend golfer doesn't have when showing up at the local muni. Including caddies. No forecaddies either. Let them go find their own ball. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Might be fun to watch. Or not.


    I wonder how the pros would do playing at some local muni, and NOT Torrey Pines or Bethpage Black: dried out fairways, bumpy greens, uneven and unraked sand traps, divot holes, and tee boxes that look slightly worse than an ill-kept backyard.




    Those with real skill would do well. Lee Trevino grew up learning golf on ill-kept munis. And that man could work a golf ball.



    Not too sure about some of these kids nowadays. But like I said, it could be entertaining to watch. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Primary bag:
    Titleist 913 D3 8.5
    Titleist 915Fd 13.5
    Titleist 913h 17
    Mizuno MP-18 4-PW
    Scratch wedges 50, 55, and 60
    Bettinardi mid-shank putter

    Backup bag:
    Ping G400 9
    Ping G30 fw 13
    Ping G30 hybrid 19
    Ping iBlade 4-PW power spec
    Macgregor VIP wedges 51, 56, and 60
    Bettinardi mid-shank putter
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Posts: 935 ✭✭
    They have to save a stroke or two by virtue of there being spotters on the course.



    I lose balls all the time in the primary cut of rough where I play when you just can't find the ball and you have a group up your butt and you have to keep moving. I take the penalty too but don't re-tee.
  • aliikanealiikane Members Posts: 1,600 ✭✭
    I agree with banning the green reading books. I think the game should put more responsibility on the player to setup and read shots. With that being said, the only thing I think is fine for tournament play is rangefinders w/out slope because it would speed up the game. Not many courses are marked well, have accurate yardage markers, and have yardages of where the pins are placed on the green.
  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,066 ✭✭
    aliikane wrote:


    I agree with banning the green reading books. I think the game should put more responsibility on the player to setup and read shots. With that being said, the only thing I think is fine for tournament play is rangefinders w/out slope because it would speed up the game. Not many courses are marked well, have accurate yardage markers, and have yardages of where the pins are placed on the green.




    So, reading greens is a necessary skill but estimating yardage is not ????????
  • new2g0lfnew2g0lf Members Posts: 3,309 ✭✭
    clublender wrote:

    wrmiller wrote:

    smashdn wrote:

    clublender wrote:


    Bryson DeChambeau ran into some trouble recently using a compass on the course. Then Golfweek recently broke the story that beginning January 1, 2019, green-reading books may be outlawed on tour. What should pros be allowed to use to assist their game and what should be banned? Green-reading books? Pin-placement maps? Rangefinders? Carts? Compasses? What's integral to the game and what is just a tool, like a sand wedge, a golf bag and a caddy? Can a golfer use a computer to calculate the best path to sink a putt?




    What skills are essential "golf skills" you want to test? I think it would be interesting to have the guys get their own yardages (by estimating them on course, no markers or sprinkler heads, etc.) as I personally believe that estimating yardage is a golf skill. Pin placement maps, yardage books, etc. have eliminated blind shots in essence and have also killed some of the depth perception tricks employed by architects. Thus course knowledge and prior homework is slightly nullified.



    I don't need to see featheries and niblicks but estimating yardage is a skill and the lengthy conversations have slowed down the pro game. And unfortunately Jimmy Shanks at the local muni is taking his cues from the tour.



    I've told this here before but bohica:

    Weekend before last I was waiting on the tee on a par five. An adjoining par five green is just uphill from this tee box. I hear the approach shot hit the green and bounce off the back. No more than 25 yards tops off the back of the green. Tour visor guy (what he was wearing) rolls up in cart, locks the brakes, and cussing, jumps out to survey the damage. He pulls his trusty bushnell and gets his yardage at all of 25 yards. I nearly lost my **** right there on the tee.




    Reading a green is like judging the wind or trying to decide how much an upslope or downslope affects your yardage. It's part of the skill required to be good at the game. If the books didn't offer an advantage, no one would be using them.




    Or is it a perceived advantage that if one guy is using them they must all use it to keep the playing field level in their minds? Wonder how many times a guy gives that dumb look and arm wave in the opposite direction of the break after missing a putt was the result of that book?




    I have always thought that pros shouldn't have access to anything that a weekend golfer doesn't have when showing up at the local muni. Including caddies. No forecaddies either. Let them go find their own ball. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Might be fun to watch. Or not.


    I wonder how the pros would do playing at some local muni, and NOT Torrey Pines or Bethpage Black: dried out fairways, bumpy greens, uneven and unraked sand traps, divot holes, and tee boxes that look slightly worse than an ill-kept backyard.




    They would do better than anyone else would. They are professional golfers, your statement makes it seem like their abilities are enhanced because they play on well maintained courses.
    Driver - Ping G400 MAX 10.5*
    Woods - XXIO 10 3W
    Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
    Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-GW Away - Ping i500 5-AW
    Wedge - Vokey TVD 56* K Grind
    Putter - Seemore Nashville mFGP2 SS Mallet Black
    Ball - KSig, TM TP5X, Snell MTB
  • gatorMDgatorMD Hacker-in-Chief ClubWRX Posts: 4,568 ClubWRX
    edited Nov 22, 2018 #58
    any update on this?

    http://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2018/green-reading-materials/GRM-interpretation-final.pdf



    i used one of these today and man i thought it was actually very helpful.....
    Driver: Ping G400 Max 9 Tour AD MT 6
    3W: TM M2 Tour AD MT 7
    Utility: Srixon Z U65 3/19 Tour AD DI
    Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 4-9 Tour V
    Wedges: SM7 46F, 50F, 54F, and 60K KBS Tour
    Putter: SC Newport 3
    Ball: AVX/ProV1
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,585 ✭✭
    gatorMD wrote:


    any update on this?

    http://www.usga.org/...ation-final.pdf



    i used one of these today and man i thought it was actually very helpful.....






    perma_banned.gif
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • youraway2youraway2 Just Old Sticks Members Posts: 1,402 ✭✭
    edited Nov 23, 2018 #60


    And yet winning scores just don't go down. But the USGA needs to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
    I understand your viewpoint, but that's only one. If I supported your position, and your's is OK, many believe all changes are OK, everything from anchoring, range finders, yardage books, and topical green evaluations, backstopping, etc. As I said, that's OK from your viewpoint.



    But for me, I see the game differently. I believe in preserving the game. To me technology is destroying the game of golf, oh it might be more fun for some, but they never knew the real game. Play the Ball as you find it, and make a stroke from the tee and strike the ball as many times as it takes until it's holed. They are the two basic premises to the game. Preserving the game as I mentioned includes being able to determine the distance with your eyes, selecting the correct club and executing a shot. No outside assistance, no devices to make calculations or decisions for you, the game must be played by you and only you. I loved the game back then, I can remember striking a shot and wondering how did that come up short or long. It was usually because a shot I thought was 150, might have been 170 or 140. My ability to determine the distance was in error. I could go on into equipment, especially putters, bu we shouldn't beat a dead horse. So the game has changed and they way we played it is no longer, enough said. Now we must decide if we want it to continue to evolve into something other than what golf was intended to be, for enjoyment, or would we think about preserving the game and maybe returning to the way it was played. Who's Donald Ross, or Seth Raynor, or some guy named CB. What's a Redan green? Oh maybe it doesn't matter, what's important now is our new modernization of the rules, highly technically equipment that enables a better golf swing, technical devices to provide data your eyes couldn't or your feet could not feel. For me, nothing is more enjoyable than determining the feel of a green with your feet, seeing the break with your eyes and then making the putt, with your abilities. Or perhaps judging the shot at 125, deciding to hit it 140, since the required shot was uphill and you could feel the wind in your face. Yes it's all changed now, and yes I have a laser, but for some reason I seldom if ever use it. Maybe it's perhaps I just like to play the game the old way. No complaints, some want to grow the game. I want to preserve it and believe the great game I once knew, would have grown the game on it's own.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]Ping G-400 Max, 10.5, Xtorsion[/font]
    PXG, 15-degree, ACCRA
    PXG, 19-degree hybrid, ACCRA
    Cobra DWS Utility 19-degree
    CF-16, 4-PW, UST Recoil
    0311 PXG, 5-AW, i70 Areotech Steel-fiber
    SW, 56 PXG
    Ping Nickel Anser II
  • d1boundd1bound Posts: 125 ✭✭



    they never knew the real game




    But you never knew the real game too
    G400 LST 8.5*/Accra Tour Z RPG 472 M5+
    Callaway X2Hot 4(17*) Wood
    MP-18 Fli-Hi 3/KBS 120 S
    Srixon Z765 4-P/C-Taper 120 S
    Cleveland RTX 2.0 52,56,60
    Rife Antigua/Flat Cat

    "When I die I'm going out as an underdog who never lost hope" - Joyner Lucas
2
Sign In or Register to comment.