Your opinion on iron soles

GoldhawkGoldhawk Members Posts: 42 ✭✭
So, from what I know, there are 2 major thoughts on iron soles:

A - The sole is important for turf interaction.

or

B - The sole doesn't matter because the ball is long gone by the time the club touches the ground



Just wondering other peoples thoughts

I'm just talking about regular irons here, not wedges where you're likely to open the face up and use the sole bounce etc.

I can see the sole mass being important in changing the CG, and thus the launch angle.



I'm bringing this up partly because of the newer trend of factory bent clubs - such as the Ping "power lofts" and "vintage lofts". From what I have read these are the same castings and just bent to change loft, so the bounce on them is will be very different.

I remember reading a review about 10 yrs ago where they talked about how company A (Nike) had added a lot more bounce to their new irons that they copied from company B (Mizuno), and it helped the irons a lot.

Comments

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,071 ✭✭
    The sole matters if you happen to catch turf before ball.



    And the sole matters because of its effect on your next swing.



    Other than loft and overall club weight the sole’s interaction with the turf is the most important element of an iron’s design.
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • widow-makerwidow-maker Members Posts: 1,615 ✭✭
    To me, turf interaction is how I choose my iron heads. That's my starting point. I'm sure other people have a different opinion and criteria. Whatever works... but I like to start with what I'm comfortable with.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,339 ✭✭
    The turf interaction thing is something I always find somewhat funny. The turf literally changes with the weather. I can understand someone not wanting to play something with a huge sole but there’s absolutely no downside to playing something that’s a bit wider and/or cambered. There is however much downside to playing a super narrow, sharp leading edge iron if you’re not a world class ball striker.
  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,439 ✭✭
    I have a friend who plays Nike Vapor Speeds who always hits it slightly fat. This has generally suited playing on our typically wet and lush fairways where the wide sole has helped his miss. The bounce stops the club digging into the turf and his shots generally pan out relatively well. This summer, where the heatwave over here has led to fairways as hard as concrete, he has been blading nearly every shot as the bounce of his wide sole is making his slight fat bounce into the middle of the ball. Granted the weather we are currently experiencing now is extreme and his clubs suit his typical miss. I suppose this is what you should be aiming for.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,339 ✭✭
    mahonie wrote:
    I have a friend who plays Nike Vapor Speeds who always hits it slightly fat. This has generally suited playing on our typically wet and lush fairways where the wide sole has helped his miss. The bounce stops the club digging into the turf and his shots generally pan out relatively well. This summer, where the heatwave over here has led to fairways as hard as concrete, he has been blading nearly every shot as the bounce of his wide sole is making his slight fat bounce into the middle of the ball. Granted the weather we are currently experiencing now is extreme and his clubs suit his typical miss. I suppose this is what you should be aiming for.






    Lol I don’t buy that either. Fat is fat and thin is thin. He’s a bad ball striker and his results are what they are. A sole an 1/8” wider bounces off the turf into the middle of the ball but I suppose a sole 1/8” narrower would’ve just dug in stopped fat behind the ball. Lol spare me.
  • mahoniemahonie Members Posts: 2,439 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    mahonie wrote:
    I have a friend who plays Nike Vapor Speeds who always hits it slightly fat. This has generally suited playing on our typically wet and lush fairways where the wide sole has helped his miss. The bounce stops the club digging into the turf and his shots generally pan out relatively well. This summer, where the heatwave over here has led to fairways as hard as concrete, he has been blading nearly every shot as the bounce of his wide sole is making his slight fat bounce into the middle of the ball. Granted the weather we are currently experiencing now is extreme and his clubs suit his typical miss. I suppose this is what you should be aiming for.






    Lol I don’t buy that either. Fat is fat and thin is thin. He’s a bad ball striker and his results are what they are. A sole an 1/8” wider bounces off the turf into the middle of the ball but I suppose a sole 1/8” narrower would’ve just dug in stopped fat behind the ball. Lol spare me.




    Don’t start another one. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying his wide soles work for the majority of the time for his swing on the courses he plays. If he played anything with a narrower sole, he would be duffing almost every shot...with the wider sole he gets away with it. He could just learn to strike the ball before the ground but as he gets away with it, he doesn’t need to. His clubs are functional for his swing, he doesn’t need to change anything.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • Nixhex524Nixhex524 ClubWRX Posts: 4,039 ClubWRX
    I don't know... I have always figured if sole didn't matter why not make them all the same? Is it just marketing? I dont think so... For me, I know I happen to play thinner soled irons MUCH better than wider soled irons.... I take the AP2 as a good example.. the AP2 are great irons but I don't hit them as cleanly as my CBs, not even close. I attribute my better iron play to the sole, and maybe leading edge grind, of the CB. If I chunk one, I know it was a terrible, awful swing. Thin soles for me please.
    Taylormade M2 2017 9.5* Tensei blue CK 60
    Cobra F9 14.5* Atmos blue 7s
    Titleist 816 H1 19*  Fujikura Motore 8.8 TS
    Bridgestone J15 CB 4-P X100 AMT
    Titleist SM5 50/56/60
    Black Lab 7
    Srixon Z Star XV/Bridgestone BXS
  • lenman73lenman73 Members Posts: 815 ✭✭
    I have noticed I like soles with some relief towards the heel. But that's me. On occasion, especially when fatigue sets in my swing gets more shallow from the inside.
  • dog flogdog flog Members Posts: 1,364 ✭✭
    The wide sole is a byproduct of moving the CG of the head further back. Same deal with offset. I can't have my super high launch with a skinny sole, even if I wanted it or if it benefited my particular way of missing. It might help on slightly sclaffy hits on soft ground but causes tops and skinnys on hard. Whattya gonna do?
    Driver: Ping Anser 12°
    7 wood: Srixon Z 355 22°
    4 hybrid: Cleveland Classic 23°
    5 hybrid: Srixon Z355 26°
    6 hybrid: Cobra Fly-Z XL 28°
    Irons: Callaway X2Hot 7-A
    Wedges: Cleveland RTX cavity 52° 58°
    Putter: Ping Ketsch Cadence Heavy
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,339 ✭✭
    Nixhex524 wrote:
    I don't know... I have always figured if sole didn't matter why not make them all the same? Is it just marketing? I dont think so... For me, I know I happen to play thinner soled irons MUCH better than wider soled irons.... I take the AP2 as a good example.. the AP2 are great irons but I don't hit them as cleanly as my CBs, not even close. I attribute my better iron play to the sole, and maybe leading edge grind, of the CB. If I chunk one, I know it was a terrible, awful swing. Thin soles for me please.






    Sole matters in a couple regards. One....a wider sole will help with less than perfect contact. It’s gonna help if your contact is at the ball instead of in front of the ball. It will glide instead of dig. It doesn’t bounce unless you have a 45* aoa then every club will. Two....a narrower, sharper sole is what elite ball strikers prefer. They catch the ball first with a nice pretty divot that happens just in front of the ball. They love tiny minimal looking heads. Like everything there’s also a middle ground for the good golfer that could use some help from time to time. It would be far easier for an elite striker to use a wider sole than it would for an average golfer to use a narrower sole because ball first contact doesn’t care what the sole looks like.
  • Pepe8714Pepe8714 Members Posts: 169 ✭✭
    Thickness is the only part of the sole that matters. Thin soles are fantastic out of rough but not as forgiving as thick soles out of the fairway. Thick soles out of the rough - forget it. This is why almost all 'players' irons are extremely thin soled, even with offset. However, true game improvement irons have massively thick soles to assist on a less than stellar fairway shot.



    'Grind' or bounce are just fine tuning an already thin sole to an individual swing. Thick or thin is all that matters as far as general playability.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove albertaClubWRX Posts: 1,756 ClubWRX
    when i am swinging well i can't remember a time when it really mattered what the width of the sole was. However at least for now i am favouring thin soles.


    Driver: M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    Hybrid: M6 #3 with KBS Tour Hybrid Prototype 95X
    4-GW: P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat)
    HiToe Wedges: 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts
    Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    My 1991 Wilson Staff FG-51's cut thru the turf like a knife....but that doesn't equate to an overall better shot because the strike must be near perfect.
  • masliemaslie Members Posts: 238 ✭✭
    Imo.

    B.

    However the sole and hosel dictate how to setup the club for address position and grip along with slope condition.
    Driver -
    Ryoma Premia - Diamana B.
    Fw -
    #3 Cally Legacy'10 - Diamana R.
    #5 Rbz stg1 tour TP std Rul.
    #7 Cleaveland Launcher 1st gen std Fuji gold.
    Irons -
    #4-Hy JBeam.
    #5-Pw Romaro Ray H modus 120.
    Wedges -
    52 & 58 Fourteen Rm 12 std Dg.
    Putter -
    Masda studio 1.
  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors Posts: 4,035 ✭✭
    Sole grind is very important when looking at iron fitting. The only reason this isn't pushed more by fitters and OEMs is because of how hard it is logistically to make each set with a different sole configuration. Playing the correct grind makes it alot easier to make good contact and makes your bad shots a little better.
    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG: @nationalcustom
    Twitter: @WorksNational
    (still a huge club HO)
  • NPVWhizNPVWhiz Members Posts: 1,976 ✭✭
    I’ve always had a sense that even though the ball has left the face, the way the sole interacts with the turf has a large effect on the feel of ball impact on the face because that feel is transmitted by vibration or resonance that is affected....dampened or maybe in some cases enhanced by how the sole and turf behave.
    Taylormade r11s 9 Penley Stealth 70x 44.5" D-3
    > Taylormade 16 M1 8.5 GD AD TP6x 44.0" D3 PX Hzrdus Black 75 6.0 44.5" D-3
    Nickent 3DX Pro 14 MRC Diamana WB 83s
    Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18 Grafalloy CNote ProtoX
    Mizuno MP62 DG x-100 Sensicore D-4 3-pw
    > Ping i200 DG120 S3 D-3 +1/4" Red 4-U.
    Vokey SM6 56-14/60-04M DG x-100 Sensicore 1xss D-5
    > Vokey SM6 56/10 60/4M DG 120 S300 35" D-5
    Scotty Golo
Sign In or Register to comment.