MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

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  • HighBoomingDrawsHighBoomingDraws Flagnostic All 2019 Members Posts: 1,015 ✭✭





    That's INCREDIBLE!



    I'll ask it here because I ask NoLayingUp the same thing all the time on Twitter for the mailbag stuff...



    Is Jordan Spieth still relevant?
    By the way, this is an interesting question. I don't have an answer. What he does this year. . .either "get over it" or "wow, this is still bad" is going to go a long way to answering that.



    I'd almost like to see him just say "screw it" about his putting. Forget about [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/539756/hank-haney-believes-jordan-spieth-has-the-yips-but-this-is-why-hes-entirely-wrong/"]his issues[/url] at all. Accept he's going to miss some, and see if his ball striking gets back to where it was.



    But who knows.




    So are you saying he might be irrelevant? Because I kind of am.
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  • FAbbFAbb Members Posts: 15,890 ✭✭
    Jordan Spieth is not done. He will win again. He will win a major again.
  • TheCityGameTheCityGame Traj like Minaj Members Posts: 15,226 ✭✭




    Check out the golf simulator install this guy did. . .



    https://imgur.com/a/ogQnFNT



    This is his reddit thread. . .



    https://www.reddit.c...t_construction/




    That's INCREDIBLE!



    I'll ask it here because I ask NoLayingUp the same thing all the time on Twitter for the mailbag stuff...



    Is Jordan Spieth still relevant?
    By the way, this is an interesting question. I don't have an answer. What he does this year. . .either "get over it" or "wow, this is still bad" is going to go a long way to answering that.



    I'd almost like to see him just say "screw it" about his putting. Forget about his issues at all. Accept he's going to miss some, and see if his ball striking gets back to where it was.



    But who knows.




    So are you saying he might be irrelevant? Because I kind of am.
    Do you mean irrelevant on the tour or in our hearts?



    He might be irrelevant in terms of the tour. Might. I don't like making long term predictions like that.



    Couple years ago, PQ was so convinced Spieth was done, he bet anyone in the thread 20 bucks Spieth would never win a major again.



    Fabb took him up on it.



    I think Spieth won the very next major after that (The British Open).
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  • dcmidnightdcmidnight Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 11,689 mod
    For a down year, he won almost $3M in 23 events.



    If he plays his minimum of 25 events this year, he will absolutely win again.



    The window is open for anyone that wants to bet against him.
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  • dcmidnightdcmidnight Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 11,689 mod
    edited Jan 11, 2019 12:52pm #8166
    edit - he will absolutely win again, this year.
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  • XHoop24XHoop24 Members Posts: 925 ✭✭
    eagle1997 wrote:

    Go_Time wrote:


    Me

    Domes

    Phil

    Hoop



    vs






    me with hippie homer hair

    bearded fabb

    #citygameflow (must play in clogs and that awful hat)

    thebuttercut after two months of no haircut and on a very humid day



    [media=]




    What Eagle doesn't realize, is that we are not playing golf. Its a fight. You sure you want Fabb on your team?
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  • FAbbFAbb Members Posts: 15,890 ✭✭
    Much like the creek jump, I'm changing my position on this - I'm out.
  • TheCityGameTheCityGame Traj like Minaj Members Posts: 15,226 ✭✭
    Speaking of Spieth, this is an article at golf magazine that is about Jordan's issue with short putts.



    https://www.golf.com/instruction/2019/01/11/jordan-spieth-short-putts-stats-yips-video



    (the 45 second video doesn't add anything to the article. Just read the article.)



    He claims that Jordan has a lot of movement and relaxation in his longer putts, but freezes over shorter stuff and that he's better at short stuff when he has some movement in his set up.



    I don't know if it's really the solution. Everyone always has ideas about how so and so should fix such and such.



    But it does speak to me. I was just talking with Fabb the other day that I get a different feeling over the putt when I feel like it's one that I "should make". Like I'm comfortable and smooth over 8/10/12 footers and I just want to roll them, but when I get over those 3/4 footers, I feel like I need to pick an exact line and hit it an exact speed and that's not helpful.
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  • 2moreTerps2moreTerps Members Posts: 1,444 ✭✭
    2018:

    OTT: 50th

    ATG: 33rd

    ArTG: 49th

    Putt: 123rd

    Overall: 32nd



    2017:

    OTT: 53rd

    ATG: 1st

    ArTG: 12th

    Putt: 39th

    Overall: 1st



    2016:

    OTT: 29th

    ATG: 88th

    ArTG: 24th

    Putt: 2nd

    Overall: 5th



    2015:

    OTT: 15th

    ATG: 11th

    ArTG: 7th

    Putt: 9th

    Overall: 2nd



    The statistical profile matches what it has "seemed" like. He was really really good in 2015. Then he fell off a little bit but putted lights out. 2016 didn't feel as sustainable as 2015 did. Then the next year his iron play was super strong, but the other parts of his game weren't as good. His game in 2017 didn't feel as sustainable as 2015. Then last year every part of his game was down.



    So is he the guy in 2015 who was really good at everything?

    The guy in 2016 who never missed a putt?

    The guy in 2017 who was the best iron player on tour?



    Perhaps it's the lack of distance subconsciously minimizing my opinion of him but for a guy who in three years was 2nd, 5th, and 1st in overall strokes gained his game has always had a slightly fluky feel to it. I have absolutely no idea what to make of it and cannot justify a strong opinion about his play improving or falling off further.
  • HighBoomingDrawsHighBoomingDraws Flagnostic All 2019 Members Posts: 1,015 ✭✭
    2moreTerps wrote:


    2018:

    OTT: 50th

    ATG: 33rd

    ArTG: 49th

    Putt: 123rd

    Overall: 32nd



    2017:

    OTT: 53rd

    ATG: 1st

    ArTG: 12th

    Putt: 39th

    Overall: 1st



    2016:

    OTT: 29th

    ATG: 88th

    ArTG: 24th

    Putt: 2nd

    Overall: 5th



    2015:

    OTT: 15th

    ATG: 11th

    ArTG: 7th

    Putt: 9th

    Overall: 2nd



    The statistical profile matches what it has "seemed" like. He was really really good in 2015. Then he fell off a little bit but putted lights out. 2016 didn't feel as sustainable as 2015 did. Then the next year his iron play was super strong, but the other parts of his game weren't as good. His game in 2017 didn't feel as sustainable as 2015. Then last year every part of his game was down.



    So is he the guy in 2015 who was really good at everything?

    The guy in 2016 who never missed a putt?

    The guy in 2017 who was the best iron player on tour?



    Perhaps it's the lack of distance subconsciously minimizing my opinion of him but for a guy who in three years was 2nd, 5th, and 1st in overall strokes gained his game has always had a slightly fluky feel to it. I have absolutely no idea what to make of it and cannot justify a strong opinion about his play improving or falling off further.




    Thank you for articulating exactly what I was lazily referring to with my original question.
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  • davechendavechen THDC Members Posts: 1,889 ✭✭
    bayrat88 wrote:




    non-GTF: What is THDC's next job and where?




    Job? What job? My plan is to walk the earth.
  • FAbbFAbb Members Posts: 15,890 ✭✭
    Didn't he make changes after 2015 to try and get some more yardage? And he ended up worse off in SG OTT. Ouch.





    I do believe he'll win again, including a major, or majors. I think he's more likely to complete the career slam than Rory at this point.
  • TheButteryCutTheButteryCut Members Posts: 351 ✭✭
    Putting is unique in that it has the ability to bring your whole game down, both physically and mentally. If you don't think you can get the ball in the whole, no matter how well you strike it with the rest of your game, it can really wear you down and make you question everything. Knowing, or at least believing, that you have an excellent chance of making everything you look really frees up the rest of your game. Vice versa, knowing that you need to be within 3 feet to have a solid chance can really grind you down. You start to think that no matter how well I hit it, I still can't get it down.



    I guess what I am trying to say is that you can have a bad driving day or ballstriking, but if you are a great putter than you will always have that chance and belief that you can salvage something. But take away one's strength and confidence, and you start to wonder what you have left to rely on when the game goes south.
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  • TheButteryCutTheButteryCut Members Posts: 351 ✭✭
    As for Spieth, I think part of it is that those two years of amazing putting have become unrealistic pressure. It's almost like he might be holding himself to that expectation of putting like that all the time, which I remember saying back then isn't possible. Honestly, I think he needs to accept that those levels were anomalies, and his baseline will be above average and accept the misses for now.



    I think that is the only way he gets back to winning anything. Grind it out and learn to accept the misses for what they are. The best strokes he can make.
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  • Ogre41Ogre41 Members Posts: 1,171 ✭✭
    Not Spieth Talk: I just bought a very cheap Rapture Titanium 3 wood. Anyone ever hit that thing? I know it dates back to when the site began basically, but I liked the idea of a tee only deep face titanium 3 wood. That’s what I think I bought, or at least hope I did.
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  • bandondunes54bandondunes54 Members Posts: 24 ✭✭
    davechen wrote:

    bayrat88 wrote:


    non-GTF: What is THDC's next job and where?




    Job? What job? My plan is to walk the earth.




    Like Caine in Kung Fu?
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,712 ClubWRX


    Doesn’t sand based drain better? The DMV area could use a lot more courses like that!
    yeah, but you can't just lay sand on top of clay. When you're on a sandy course, it's sandy all the way down (not an agronomist).



    In terms of a parkland course, my BIL's course up near Philly is the sandiest I've ever seen. I don't know why or how. it's not really near water or anything. But, when you take a divot, your club face looks more like you hit a bunker shot than you took a clump of sod. You still peel up a strip, but it's not as tightly structured. You get really tight lies there, but you can get away with a hair fat because the soil doesn't have as much resistance. If you make ball-first contact, it's a pleasure.



    Sandy soil does make for better draining, better "feeling" courses, IMO. Bandon's the only really sandy place I've played.




    I think you can. I think it is called "sandcapping."



    I think you need a minimum of 4 to 6 inches for it to be legit (also not an agronomist, but I AM a know-it-all)
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,712 ClubWRX
    Putting is unique in that it has the ability to bring your whole game down, both physically and mentally. If you don't think you can get the ball in the whole, no matter how well you strike it with the rest of your game, it can really wear you down and make you question everything. Knowing, or at least believing, that you have an excellent chance of making everything you look really frees up the rest of your game. Vice versa, knowing that you need to be within 3 feet to have a solid chance can really grind you down. You start to think that no matter how well I hit it, I still can't get it down.



    I guess what I am trying to say is that you can have a bad driving day or ballstriking, but if you are a great putter than you will always have that chance and belief that you can salvage something. But take away one's strength and confidence, and you start to wonder what you have left to rely on when the game goes south.




    Amen. I have written words like yours many times in the past to people who do not understand and/or who have never experienced the yips.



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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,712 ClubWRX
    2moreTerps wrote:


    2moreTerps wrote:

    dcmidnight wrote:


    Q. for the guys who are reading a lot of golf architecture stuff or listening to podcasts. Lets say you read a *really* long, opinion based article with tons of uberwoke opinions about how a particular course is being "ruined" by technology. And that most players that play it seem to still love the course even though they probably arent smart enough to appreciate the course's architectural features < authors opinion tinged with my sarcasm.



    Does your opinion of the article change if 3/4 of the way through it the author reveals that not only has he never played there but he's never even been there? Its essentially an "on paper" exercise - although he is perfectly happy running down people who dont agree with his very long winded opinions?



    I've been slowly chopping all the golf architecture stuff off my podcast list for various reasons. i think mostly bc I can just enjoy playing certain courses without having to get into the weeds about crap like this. But this article really sort of brought home to me why I am perfectly happy tapping out on this sort of thing altogether.




    well i'm not the post's target audience but i tapped out of this stuff about 4 minutes into a NLU podcast when Tron and Soly agreed that good golf courses could only be built on sandy soil. Soly said that again on the pod with Brandel and Brandel was like "that's absurd. most golf courses in the US aren't built on sandy soil and you can still enjoy the game playing those courses".



    so can you post the article or just allow me to guess the course? augusta?




    I'm fine with people disagreeing with things that are said on the podcast. That's what it's there for. But this representation of what was actually said on the podcast borders on parody. Never in my life have I ever said that good golf courses can only be built on sandy soil. I honestly have no clue what Tron conversation you're referring to, but that's also not at all what the conversation was like with Brandel. If you're going to disagree with something, the minimum hurdle you need to clear is to at least accurately represent what the other person is saying.



    Even if you got the actual quotes right, the next step would be to consider the context of the conversation.




    Episode 255 Scotland recap:

    Soly "I want to hear your overarching takeaway from spending a week playing golf in scotland"

    Tron "it ruined golf for me"

    Soly "how so"

    Tron "ahhhh. i do not want to play golf in the united states anymore"

    Soly "what made it so great"

    Tron "ahh. maybe more this year than others years the turf conditions were insanely good and exceptional firm and burned out"



    these guys were expressing course architecture discussion/breakdown/snobbery fatigue and NLU wades into those waters. You've expressed that playing shots on the ground is more fun and that playing shots in the air is boring. You discussed the superiority of sandy soil for courses in the podcast with the austrailan course designer. i forget his name. It came up in the Brandel pod. His response to you is exactly what i'm thinking when i'm listening. My context is that i'm a guy in maryland playing two courses where we broke records for rainfall in a year. they were at best chronically soaked and at worst under water. Even if you reasonably do prefer courses where you can play on the ground and courses built on sandy soil it has felt like you guys were missing the fact that a massive % of your US audience does not, and will not, play those type of courses. I played last saturday and every ball in the fairway backed up and everything is a mud ball. it's still fun.



    i'm not NLU hater either. just the opposite. I listen to most of the podcasts. I'm excited to see your upcoming version of wide world of golf thing. I watched and enjoyed strapped, etc.




    This is at least closer, but again, context is key. We're prone to hyperbole, and of course Tron doesn't mean that he doesn't want to play golf in the US. We play the same soggy courses down in Florida as you guys do in Maryland (different grass types, but not anywhere close to firm and fast at some of the best places I've played). And no one said that good golf courses can only be built on sandy soil.



    But it is eye opening how much more fun golf is on these types of soils. Tron had played golf his whole life, loved it, and had never played the type of golf that were lucky enough to play this summer. And it was eye opening to him how enjoyable that was. I've shared my thoughts on Scotland golf on the podcast many times before, and wanted to open it up to the rest of the group to describe their experience.



    It's simply a fact that sandy soil provides the best opportunity for firm and fast conditions, and the courses that are designed around these types of conditions are the most enjoyable courses I've ever encountered. Which is a far cry from "good golf courses can only be built on sandy soil." If that was the case, there would only be golf courses on the coasts.



    But playing those types of courses really does make it hard to come back home and play the aerial game all over again, (which is where we play about 98% of our annual rounds).




    I played 10 rounds of golf in 12 days in Scotland and Ireland three summers ago. I, too, will never define a great golf course the same as I used to before going there....
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  • TheCityGameTheCityGame Traj like Minaj Members Posts: 15,226 ✭✭
    FAbb wrote:


    Didn't he make changes after 2015 to try and get some more yardage? And he ended up worse off in SG OTT. Ouch.





    I do believe he'll win again, including a major, or majors. I think he's more likely to complete the career slam than Rory at this point.
    what makes you think he'll win again?



    Not arguing. Just wondering, because I'm totally on the fence. Maybe he snaps back into winning form. Maybe THAT was the anomoly and he fades away, or wins at the rate of, say, rickie fowler, which I would consider a disappointment.
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  • TheButteryCutTheButteryCut Members Posts: 351 ✭✭
    Obee wrote:

    Putting is unique in that it has the ability to bring your whole game down, both physically and mentally. If you don't think you can get the ball in the whole, no matter how well you strike it with the rest of your game, it can really wear you down and make you question everything. Knowing, or at least believing, that you have an excellent chance of making everything you look really frees up the rest of your game. Vice versa, knowing that you need to be within 3 feet to have a solid chance can really grind you down. You start to think that no matter how well I hit it, I still can't get it down.



    I guess what I am trying to say is that you can have a bad driving day or ballstriking, but if you are a great putter than you will always have that chance and belief that you can salvage something. But take away one's strength and confidence, and you start to wonder what you have left to rely on when the game goes south.




    Amen. I have written words like yours many times in the past to people who do not understand and/or who have never experienced the yips.




    I didn't want to say it was personal experience, but I was speaking from the heart. I've never putted like Speith when he was on, but I was pretty good at one point. The last few years, especially in tournament play, I have had the tips. I'd rather have a 25 footer than a 3 footer just because I could tell myself I was supposed to make the 25 footer. You feel like the rest of your game is worthless befuddled you could hit 18 greens within 10 feet Everytime and still shoot over par. Great ballstriking becones irrelevant



    Happy to say I think I've fought through it and finding some confidence. But it was mentally the weakest and most frustrated I've ever been. I can relate to him being on the edge of breaking down. You either grind through them or just accept them
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  • davechendavechen THDC Members Posts: 1,889 ✭✭

    davechen wrote:

    bayrat88 wrote:


    non-GTF: What is THDC's next job and where?




    Job? What job? My plan is to walk the earth.




    Like Caine in Kung Fu?




    Exactly!
  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    Polishing off this dumb bottle of Evan Williams Single Barrell tonight. Gonna give my guy at the **** some serious side-eye next time he makes a recommendation.



    Happy DTF my Bros.
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  • FAbbFAbb Members Posts: 15,890 ✭✭

    FAbb wrote:


    Didn't he make changes after 2015 to try and get some more yardage? And he ended up worse off in SG OTT. Ouch.





    I do believe he'll win again, including a major, or majors. I think he's more likely to complete the career slam than Rory at this point.
    what makes you think he'll win again?



    Not arguing. Just wondering, because I'm totally on the fence. Maybe he snaps back into winning form. Maybe THAT was the anomoly and he fades away, or wins at the rate of, say, rickie fowler, which I would consider a disappointment.




    I feel it in my loins.



    He's a gamer. He's won on the biggest stages. He has been a pretty elite ball striker. I think he really, really wants to get back to the top of the game.



    It just feels like there's no way he's done.
  • GooseHookGooseHook Keep it Fraiche Members Posts: 11,668 ✭✭
    eagle1997 wrote:


    Polishing off this dumb bottle of Evan Williams Single Barrell tonight. Gonna give my guy at the **** some serious side-eye next time he makes a recommendation.



    Happy DTF my Bros.




    You don't like it??



    I think EWSB is one of the best Bourbons for the money.
    M4 9.5°, Green Mamba 70TX
    Mizuno ST-180 16°, Atmos Blue 8x
    Mizuno CLK  19°, Recoil Hybrid 95
    Mizuno MP Fli Hi 21°, Recoil 110

    Srixon Z785 5-PW
    Mizuno S18  50.07, 54.08 & 58.08
    Nippon Modus 125x
    EVNROLL ER3
    Z-Star XV
    Lead Tape


  • Go_TimeGo_Time _ Members Posts: 2,311 ✭✭
    eagle1997 wrote:


    Polishing off this dumb bottle of Evan Williams Single Barrell tonight. Gonna give my guy at the **** some serious side-eye next time he makes a recommendation.



    Happy DTF my Bros.




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  • eagle1997eagle1997 Members Posts: 18,062 ✭✭
    He said it's just like the Four Roses Single Barrel.



    In my opinion, it pales in comparison.



    Price difference is $10. I'd happily pay that. I think there's a reason why the FRSB was sold out and the EWSB was on sale for $22.99 (with a ton on the shelf).
    Cobra F8+ 9.5°
    TEE XCG4 3w 15°
    Cally Steelhead XR 17°
    Cobra BioCell 22°
    Cobra One Length 5-PW
    Bstone J15 50°
    Bstone J15 52°
    Odyssey Black Milled #1
  • GooseHookGooseHook Keep it Fraiche Members Posts: 11,668 ✭✭
    For the podcasters, I have a rec if you like ultra long episodes. Dan Carlin's Hardcore History.



    I'm on the second one of his five part WW1 series.
    M4 9.5°, Green Mamba 70TX
    Mizuno ST-180 16°, Atmos Blue 8x
    Mizuno CLK  19°, Recoil Hybrid 95
    Mizuno MP Fli Hi 21°, Recoil 110

    Srixon Z785 5-PW
    Mizuno S18  50.07, 54.08 & 58.08
    Nippon Modus 125x
    EVNROLL ER3
    Z-Star XV
    Lead Tape


  • Johnny TJohnny T Wait for me guys! Members Posts: 3,932 ✭✭
    I haven't had the EWSB but it gets good reviews. I'm sure I'll try it at some point as it's right in my wheelhouse for price.



    Old Grand Dad 114 for me tonight. Makes a great old fashioned.
    Taylormade M3 460 - Fujikura Speeder 757 Evo IV
    Titleist 917 F2 - Fujikura Speeder 757 Evo IV
    Titleist 816 H1 - Fujikura Motore Speeder TS 8.8 HB
    Titleist 716 T-MB 4-PW - Fujikura Pro 115
    Titleist Vokey SM6 50/54/58 - Fujikura Pro 115/DG 115
    Edel E-3 Torque Balanced
  • GooseHookGooseHook Keep it Fraiche Members Posts: 11,668 ✭✭
    For 23 bucks I'd find it hard to rag on. That's almost down to microbrew territory.



    But I'm drinking box wine tonight, so I'm not exactly living the high Life.
    M4 9.5°, Green Mamba 70TX
    Mizuno ST-180 16°, Atmos Blue 8x
    Mizuno CLK  19°, Recoil Hybrid 95
    Mizuno MP Fli Hi 21°, Recoil 110

    Srixon Z785 5-PW
    Mizuno S18  50.07, 54.08 & 58.08
    Nippon Modus 125x
    EVNROLL ER3
    Z-Star XV
    Lead Tape


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