Martial Arts In A Real Street Fight

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,007 ✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2018 #32
    This thread -





    I resisted posting this for 3 Days. But I’m weak.



    True story. And I’ll preface it by saying I’m a fan of martial arts in general.



    7th grade gym class. We had this kid come to our shool from upstate New York . He immediately lets it be known he’s a black belt and to watch it. Lol. Little guy with little man syndrome. Well. We also had this huge kid who was dumb as a brick. And these two mixed like oil and water. Long story short , it came to a head In the locker room after gym class. Pushing spilled to the door the led out to the courtyard outside. We all piled out and encircled these two. Small kid takes on his “ fighting stance “ and big guy literally shoots his legs and takes him down like a mma pro. And then just wails on him. All the while small guy is making sounds and throwing up forearms to block him. With about 50% success rate. Finally big guy let’s the small guy up. We think it’s over. Big guy turns to walk away and small guy charges with some sort of a flying kick punch combo. Big guy turns around and grabs him and picks him up. And then actually deposits him into the outside trash can. And says the line that every kid there remembers to this day. My buddy and I stilll use it when someone is put in their place. He said “ take that back to your Kung-fu teacher “! Now I have no idea what type martial arts he was studying. But the fact that he generalized it to Kung-fu was literally the funniest thing I’d ever heard.



    For those wondering why nobody stopped this. #1. It was the 80s. Fighting wasn’t a federal crime yet. Teachers still smoked in school etc. you know. Before the world died . #2. The little guy was the aggressor. Twice. He had it coming.



    anyway. Was too on topic not to share. Lol.
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  • vaca22vaca22 Commander In Beef Members Posts: 665 ✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2018 #33
    As a kid, my next door neighbor was always off to Karate class. When I first walked into his house, I was stunned to see a literal mountain of competitive trophies, medals and awards he had racked up. So we must have been...12 at the time? He was already a 3rd degree black belt, and had a newspaper article about his accomplishments framed on his wall. One night I saw him swinging around a bo staff by himself in the back yard, and he was wielding it with tremendous power. Again, we're talking 12 years old here.



    He never spoke about his training, awards, skills, or anything like that...it wasn't anyone's business. A friendly game of basketball turned not so friendly when one of the other kids in the neighborhood started pushing him around. His response? "Compromise. Can't we compromise?" When the other kid lunged at him as if to throw a punch, the next thing we knew is that he was on the ground grimacing in pain as his arm was being bent back in an awkward position.



    He always spoke of "anticipation and the element of surprise". He once told me Karate taught him "discipline, self-respect and respect for others, good work ethic and self awareness". He was a very bright kid.



    My point is this...against children of similar age, build and stature, those who take their training seriously will be able to use it effectively as a defensive strategy to avoid being hurt or neutralizing a threat. Those who continue to study can use it with devastating effect. I believe he stopped once we got to high school, as athletics and other things began to consume most of his time.



    A family friend has been practicing karate for over 35 years now. He is diabetic and weighs about 150 or 160 at most, sinewy and bony...however...several years ago he began punching boards and trying to break stones with his knuckles to build up the bone structure in his hands.



    He can kill you with a pizza box.
  • JiuJitsuandGolfJiuJitsuandGolf Members Posts: 184 ✭✭
    Coming from several martial art backgrounds, each have their own uniqueness that would definitely be hard for an untrained person to handle. I don’t think there is any style that is super effective with multiple attackers as previous have stated from an offensive standpoint. But sometimes just knowing how to neutralize a situation or attackers is just as good. Now as far as a fair fight meaning 1 on 1 I’m definitely going with Jiu Jitsu for many reasons. Most people just thing it’s rolling on mats applying chokes and joint locks which is partially true. But wrestling is incorporated, distance control, standing self defense against weapons etc. In a fight distance control is absolutely #1. If you’re a Jiu Jitsu fighter you’re either far enough away to not get struck or close enough to take the fight to the ground and subdue a person with various positions and leverage. There’s no off balance kicks, spins or punches. If an untrained person is taken down and mounted, panic sets in and tons of wasted energy happens. They open themselves up to chokes with their own clothing or jackets. Most importantly for myself I can apprehend someone safely without fear of knocking some one out cold and hitting their head. Also unlike many other martial arts, a Jiu Jitsu black belt is acquired over 8-10 years of dedicated training. There are no teenage black belts etc.
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  • mosesgolfmosesgolf Members Posts: 6,833 ✭✭
    edited Sep 15, 2018 #35
    After he gets really good at karate Brazilian JJ would be a great progression



    If you ever watch the early days of UFC all the karate, TKD, and other arts with beautiful Jean Claude Van Dam kicks get ko’d



    I saw a lot of school yard fights back in the day. Most fights went to the ground and the guy on top always won. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

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  • WrigglesWriggles Members Posts: 3,171 ✭✭
    My uncle Charlie, a ww2 combat veteran in the Pacific, used to laugh watching all the accomplished guys like Seagal, Van Damme, and others. He'd just point his finger like a gun and say POW.



    Too many gun toting people out there.



    Walk away from any potential fight.
  • Hit em goodHit em good Hit em good Members Posts: 2,097 ✭✭
    Interesting topic. FWIW, I'm 50 years old, and a 2nd Dan (2nd degree) black belt in Tae Kwon Do. My son is 23, and a 4th degree. I competed at the Ft. Worth national competition in 2015, and was a awarded a bronze medal in my age group (was proud of that). I share all this just to give a little credibility to my comments.



    For a "street fight", ie; two high school kids fighting after school in the parking lot..., I have always said that I would take a trained high school wrestler, any day, over a TKD or martial arts guy. The wrestler is going to be stronger, and tie the TKD guy up, and then just beat on him.



    That said, I would not discount the value of the martial arts training against an average joe. In TKD, we spar (fight) every single class. Sometimes, we spar 2 on 1 or 3 on 1. I've never had to use my TKD in a real fight, but there is no doubt that I will be much more prepared and composed than the average joe.

    However, I agree with the other comments, that if the other guy is bigger and stronger than me, and gets in close and grabs onto me, I will have a tough time.



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  • Chief IlliniwekChief Illiniwek Members Posts: 2,726 ✭✭
    Whoever is crazier is who wins a street fight. First off, 90% of people haven't ever really been in a fight. Of those that have, even fewer have been in a fight that lasted more than ten seconds. Most people simply aren't mentally prepared. ESPECIALLY if they land a good shot and the guy just keeps coming. Panic sets in. The guy that takes a punch and just keeps coming, or lands a great shot and isn't shaken when the other guy keeps coming will win.
  • Tcann32Tcann32 Members Posts: 3,527
    I’ve seen these fights go down. Karate will certainly help in terms of self defense in the event that you find yourself in a tough spot with a guy that hasn’t had a lot of experience.



    That being said, anyone good at street fighting is a little crazy, and a lot of tough (those guys that smile when their front teeth get knocked out) and you can’t learn those qualities.



    That being said, if you find someone with some training, whose a little crazy and a lot of tough, it’s a bad dude lol
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  • Tcann32Tcann32 Members Posts: 3,527
    Whoever is crazier is who wins a street fight. First off, 90% of people haven't ever really been in a fight. Of those that have, even fewer have been in a fight that lasted more than ten seconds. Most people simply aren't mentally prepared. ESPECIALLY if they land a good shot and the guy just keeps coming. Panic sets in. The guy that takes a punch and just keeps coming, or lands a great shot and isn't shaken when the other guy keeps coming will win.




    I was going to add to my response that to someone who’s trained in some way, it’s very jarring to land a good shot, and have it not phase the other person.



    Fortunately, when you’ve encountered one of these people at least once, you can see this aspect about them before it’s even begun lol. A lesson learned the hard way, but hopefully only once.
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  • HehatemeHehateme Posts: 546 ✭✭
    To circle back on this one, the OP is asking about a child--
  • Animal ChinAnimal Chin Members Posts: 415 ✭✭
    Hehateme wrote:


    To circle back on this one, the OP is asking about a child--




    Well, it's an easy way for people to talk about how tough they are, so, of course it would get derailed.
  • Chief IlliniwekChief Illiniwek Members Posts: 2,726 ✭✭

    Hehateme wrote:


    To circle back on this one, the OP is asking about a child--




    Well, it's an easy way for people to talk about how tough they are, so, of course it would get derailed.




    For the record, my response wasn't meant to be me acting tough. I've never been in a fight over ten seconds, and I'm not crazy lol. I saw enough fights to learn who would usually win though!
  • Hakko ryu...the very best.
  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    The fact a 12 yr old can be a 3rd degree black belt in karate tells you how legit it is.



    Bjj + boxing + wrestling would be ideal for actual fighting. Sambo, muay Thai also great. Most ufc guys have a combination of these.



    You have to be real, are we doing this to get better at fighting or for "art." if your instructor is 100 lbs overweight than it's probably not legit. If you never spar, also probably not legit.
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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,604 ✭✭
    edited Dec 22, 2018 #46
    In the scraps I was in back in the day my competitive wrestling experience helped more than the Hapkido I did as an undergrad.



    Learning a standard kick to the head or torso is all you need from martial arts, nothing spinning or leaping or Hollywood



    As others have said if you can shoot the legs out of a guy and then stay on top of your opponent he's in real trouble



    This said you need to not run into someone who is exceptionally tough w loads of fighting experience and a concrete jaw/skull



    A wise man once said "there is always someone tougher"



    Get the kid a quick martial arts self defence course and then three years of wrestling ... ymmv
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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    If you are a good wrestler you will control the fight but not necessarily be able to “end” it.



    Karate is useless other than teaching kids how to strike before getting into the techniques and styles which actually work in a real fight or competition.
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  • PlaythruPlaythru Members Posts: 22
    With the “stand your ground” laws that some states have now fights are going to be a touchy situation.Your more likely to get shot if you fight someone.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,166 ✭✭
    Playthru wrote:


    With the “stand your ground” laws that some states have now fights are going to be a touchy situation.Your more likely to get shot if you fight someone.




    Not only that but I'd guess there's a lot of people with little man complexes who try to provoke in order to pull a gun and call it self defense. There was a case around here like that when I was younger, but with a knife
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  • radimanradiman Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭
    Playthru wrote:


    With the “stand your ground” laws that some states have now fights are going to be a touchy situation.Your more likely to get shot if you fight someone.




    As an adult, I cannot think of a valid reason to get in a fight other than someone else provoking it and I'm either trying to protect myself or someone else.
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  • Bourni1Bourni1 Members Posts: 58
    I have an 8 year old son who has been practicing judo for over 3 years now. His principal Sensei participated in the Munich Olympics and another Sensei participated in Sydney, London and Beijing. Judo is taught by these gentlemen as a sport with honor, respect and discipline and is not to be taken outside the dojo.



    My son is not tall for his age but is very strong and has never been aggressive. However, I have witnessed him defending himself twice and the self confidence he has knowing he is able to take down most kids larger than him is very evident. I am not sure how effective Judo would be in a street fight, but I would think that an experienced judo athlete would easily take down someone without similar experience and subdue that individual. Granted judo does not teach kicking or punching but does teach quick take downs ans submissions, which as someone previously said is what you really need in a 1 on 1 fight which is likely to be stopped quickly.
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:
    Playthru wrote:


    With the “stand your ground” laws that some states have now fights are going to be a touchy situation.Your more likely to get shot if you fight someone.




    Not only that but I'd guess there's a lot of people with little man complexes who try to provoke in order to pull a gun and call it self defense. There was a case around here like that when I was younger, but with a knife




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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    Bourni1 wrote:
    I have an 8 year old son who has been practicing judo for over 3 years now. His principal Sensei participated in the Munich Olympics and another Sensei participated in Sydney, London and Beijing. Judo is taught by these gentlemen as a sport with honor, respect and discipline and is not to be taken outside the dojo.



    My son is not tall for his age but is very strong and has never been aggressive. However, I have witnessed him defending himself twice and the self confidence he has knowing he is able to take down most kids larger than him is very evident. I am not sure how effective Judo would be in a street fight, but I would think that an experienced judo athlete would easily take down someone without similar experience and subdue that individual. Granted judo does not teach kicking or punching but does teach quick take downs ans submissions, which as someone previously said is what you really need in a 1 on 1 fight which is likely to be stopped quickly.




    Judo is great, ultimately a street fight ends the moment it hits the ground. It has nothing to do with striking for the most part, there is always that 1% who can land a quick punch before you can get your hands around them, but they have to knock you out with that 1 punch. Add wrestling and or BJJ (wrestling is free in high school, BJJ is ridiculously expensive) for ranged take downs and let him pick a striking art he enjoys most.



    He will be plenty confident and proficient.
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  • bamagatorbamagator Members Posts: 68 ✭✭
    Studied 3 forms of martial arts and did a bunch of fun stuff with military and shooting sports in my life. My 2 cents worth pocket lint and a chuckle.



    1. For a young man, A: Confidence goes a long way, and karate will give a kid some B: Having any technique to fight that he has practiced goes a longer way C: Having taken a blow or 100 of them in practice of contact sports goes an infinite way to keep someone in the fight and not be afraid of being hit, etc.



    Mind you, I have watched some real tough guys get destroyed with one blow. I have dropped a dude with a wrestling move when I was young...swept him and had him kissing his knees in 2 seconds….he was upside down and immobilized, no punches thrown. Contact sports no matter what they are make a real difference.



    2. Real world is different than UFC or any martial arts form. Either you have a will to succeed and fight or you don't and it's hard to teach that to any kid. You can teach aggression and technique but at the end of the day, IMHO, the one with the will often wins.



    I could ramble on but I hope the point helps. Supplement karate with football or wrestling or both. He will have a fire in the belly that will place odds in his favor. No substitute for contact.



    FWIW, most people have no idea how tough the UFC guys are they watch. I kicked a dude one time at like 20% to demonstrate a technique (seriously...just a tap) and his eyes watered, which not being a jerk...which was enlightening. If your kid learns to give and TAKE a few shots, he will be a world ahead of most who have not.
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  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    bamagator wrote:


    Studied 3 forms of martial arts and did a bunch of fun stuff with military and shooting sports in my life. My 2 cents worth pocket lint and a chuckle.



    1. For a young man, A: Confidence goes a long way, and karate will give a kid some B: Having any technique to fight that he has practiced goes a longer way C: Having taken a blow or 100 of them in practice of contact sports goes an infinite way to keep someone in the fight and not be afraid of being hit, etc.



    Mind you, I have watched some real tough guys get destroyed with one blow. I have dropped a dude with a wrestling move when I was young...swept him and had him kissing his knees in 2 seconds….he was upside down and immobilized, no punches thrown. Contact sports no matter what they are make a real difference.



    2. Real world is different than UFC or any martial arts form. Either you have a will to succeed and fight or you don't and it's hard to teach that to any kid. You can teach aggression and technique but at the end of the day, IMHO, the one with the will often wins.



    I could ramble on but I hope the point helps. Supplement karate with football or wrestling or both. He will have a fire in the belly that will place odds in his favor. No substitute for contact.



    FWIW, most people have no idea how tough the UFC guys are they watch. I kicked a dude one time at like 20% to demonstrate a technique (seriously...just a tap) and his eyes watered, which not being a jerk...which was enlightening. If your kid learns to give and TAKE a few shots, he will be a world ahead of most who have not.




    ufc is way closer to a real fight than karate is. false confidence is more dangerous than having no confidence



    the fact that you have children who are supposed "experts" and it's majorly about the visuals of it tell you what you need to know. karate can be good for teaching kids to respect elders, teach consistency and etc. if we're talking fighting though? waste of time. it's an important determination, why am I doing this, or why do I want my kid to do this. if you want to actually get better at fighting, need some stand up striking like boxing or muay thai and then some ground game like BJJ, wrestling, judo etc
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  • Hakko ryu the best
  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,636 ✭✭
    8iron175 wrote:
    Hakko ryu the best




    Wow, haven’t heard that in a very long while.
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  • Morty17Morty17 Members Posts: 102 ✭✭
    I am no expert in any way but I have trained in BJJ and for my job it was the most effective. We do not cuff a combative subject standing up. Learning to take control on the ground is very effective. Put it is important to know how to block a punch or kick. Unfortunately most fights start with someone throwing a “sucker punch”. I have responded to many a bar fight where someone was seriously injured from getting hit not knowing it’s coming. To the others who have said it yes try to avoid fights at almost all costs. The old days of trading punches is over. A crazy dude with a knife or gun is going to use it. When you see a person with there guts hanging out from a stabbing you won’t forget it.
  • CEPickCEPick Members Posts: 1,776 ✭✭
    edited Jan 25, 2019 10:58am #60
    Karate teaches control and discipline. Street fighting is stupid, it almost always ends in a lawsuit. Learning to avoid and control a situation is just as important as knowing how to fight.



    That said, if you want him I whip some a**, get him into Judo and/or Jujitsu.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Sabumnim3Sabumnim3 Members Posts: 315 ✭✭
    Sorry, but it’s a trip reading most the opinions on here from people that have little to no knowledge of what they’re talking about. I’ve taught and trained various forms of martial arts for over 30 years with some of the top instructors in the world and still run a school today.



    There are so many variables that come into play during a “street” fight that it’s not cut n’ dry but to say that someone who has no training would somehow have an advantage or at least a fair fight against someone well trained is just foolish. It’s no different than taking someone who’s never golfed and expecting them to beat a scratch golfer.



    Brazilian Jujitsu is great but limited in its practice. Any form of Danzan Ryu will give you a more well-rounded experience especially when it comes to striking, which according to many on here isn’t important in a fight🤦🏼‍♂️. You also get all the ground work that BJJ took from the Japanese systems. That being said, the most effective system for striking and weapons defense is Filipino systems of Eskrima, Kadena de Mano, Larga Mano etc... What will make you the best practitioner is the ability to take multiple arts and be able to blend them. The art I teach is essentially a fusion of many forms.



    I aplologize if it seems like I’m lecturing but it’s my livelihood and something I’m well versed in. I always enjoy discussing this with the “I watch UFC” or “my cousin’s friend has a black belt” crowd. Not trying to hate, just educate...
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