How many hours to become high level college player

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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 279 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    iteachgolf wrote:



    I stand corrected. You show me a player that averages 14-15 GIR from 6900+ yardages driving 250. Stenson leads the tour at 75% GIR.




    I can name more than a few. One was a recent runner up at US Am Public Links




    That isn't their average over the course of their career. Anyone at anytime can catch lightning in a bottle and have a great week. Over the course of a career you wouldn't gamble on that 250 yard drive week in and week out to win.




    If your kid is only doing 250 it might be good to have a talk with them if they think there going to dominate the pga tour. But at the same time I could see where they get a scholarship if they have good fundamentals and are scoring decent.



    One issue I see too many people get caught up in driving distance and forget is only a factor in a few holes a round. The vast majority or holes are not par 5s or long par 4 on any course. More shots are actually lost missing fairways, greens and not converting putts within 10 feet.



    I know this because I have seen it first hand as there is one girl on the local tour. I would say she drives between 150-180. It a good drive but not long either for what I would consider a top junior girl at 11-12. The thing is she plays her game well and hits fairways and GIR and makes the putts. When she short for a hole she can place the ball for a easy chip to still make par. The thing is she is hard to beat because she still scores low and is consistent. I learned you have to play with what you got rather then try and do something you can’t.




    That works at 11-12. That game plan won’t play out at D1.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    iteachgolf wrote:



    I stand corrected. You show me a player that averages 14-15 GIR from 6900+ yardages driving 250. Stenson leads the tour at 75% GIR.




    I can name more than a few. One was a recent runner up at US Am Public Links




    That isn't their average over the course of their career. Anyone at anytime can catch lightning in a bottle and have a great week. Over the course of a career you wouldn't gamble on that 250 yard drive week in and week out to win.




    If your kid is only doing 250 it might be good to have a talk with them if they think there going to dominate the pga tour. But at the same time I could see where they get a scholarship if they have good fundamentals and are scoring decent.



    One issue I see too many people get caught up in driving distance and forget is only a factor in a few holes a round. The vast majority or holes are not par 5s or long par 4 on any course. More shots are actually lost missing fairways, greens and not converting putts within 10 feet.



    I know this because I have seen it first hand as there is one girl on the local tour. I would say she drives between 150-180. It a good drive but not long either for what I would consider a top junior girl at 11-12. The thing is she plays her game well and hits fairways and GIR and makes the putts. When she short for a hole she can place the ball for a easy chip to still make par. The thing is she is hard to beat because she still scores low and is consistent. I learned you have to play with what you got rather then try and do something you can't.




    Guys play a much different game.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭


    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:



    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.




    I can comprehend it. The OP was basically asking what it takes to get into a top D1. If you’re telling me that distance isn’t one of the top 3 things considered by D1 coaches, please continue to educate me. BC my experience is completely different.



    Don’t tell us about one outlier that did it. I can tell you about a one armed MLB pitcher as well.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,033 ✭✭




    I can comprehend it. The OP was basically asking what it takes to get into a top D1. If you're telling me that distance isn't one of the top 3 things considered by D1 coaches, please continue to educate me. BC my experience is completely different.



    Don't tell us about one outlier that did it. I can tell you about a one armed MLB pitcher as well.




    Angels phenom Jim Abbott.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,391 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:



    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.
    I can comprehend a shorter hitter playing well. But if that is the norm for him I'm asking what is lacking? He is 29 years old and time is running out. He is not making a good living on the local tour.
    WITB
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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭

    iteachgolf wrote:



    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.




    I can comprehend it. The OP was basically asking what it takes to get into a top D1. If you’re telling me that distance isn’t one of the top 3 things considered by D1 coaches, please continue to educate me. BC my experience is completely different.



    Don’t tell us about one outlier that did it. I can tell you about a one armed MLB pitcher as well.




    Considering I’ve sent a ton of kids to top D1 programs I have a pretty good idea. A good number of those kids only swing/swung around 100-105 mph. One of which shot 66 to qualify for the US Jr this year that you were discussing earlier. Distance is a factor but the biggest factor is scoring average. It’s not one outlier. One of the top 25 teams in the country had 4 recruits in two years under 5’8 and all were pretty short hitters. Two of those recruits are now the 1 and 2 players and two of the top players in the country. They’ve gotten a bit longer in the 4 years they’ve been in college but are far from bombers and shorter than PGA Tour average. If you can fly the ball 250-260 and can shoot good scores you can play at a top D1 program. I can show a ton of examples of exactly that.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:

    iteachgolf wrote:



    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.
    I can comprehend a shorter hitter playing well. But if that is the norm for him I'm asking what is lacking? He is 29 years old and time is running out. He is not making a good living on the local tour.




    I hadn’t gotten to your post yet. He hasn’t played as well out of the country or on the Web.com tour. He was also just out of college and inexperienced the only year he played on the Web. What do you define as a good living? He’s making more than the average engineer playing golf for a living. He’s made at least $80,000 this year which is more than some guys playing in Web.com tour finals have made.





    Professional golf is hard. You need a lot of luck along with a lot of skill. Here are his results from another tour this year. Could also post another tour where he’s also leading the money list.



    R3SAcMd.png
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #41


    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.




    I have a top 100 player in every class all the way until 2023 and none are longer than 270-280 at sea level in FL. And I’m taking kids who have played in and some also won some of the biggest junior events in the country. One who is a college freshman who currently has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top college teams in the country.





    And again Kevin flies it 240ish, he hits it 265. But you don’t seem to actually want to read what anyone else writes as you’ve been corrected on that already.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:



    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.




    I have a top 100 player in every class all the way until 2023 and none are longer than 270-280 at sea level in FL. And I’m taking kids who have played in and some also won some of the biggest junior events in the country. One who is a college freshman who currently has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top college teams in the country.





    And again Kevin flies it 240ish, he hits it 265. But you don’t seem to actually want to read what anyone else writes as you’ve been corrected on that already.




    You don’t coach a single male junior golfer that can hit it 300 total?
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #43

    tiger1873 wrote:


    iteachgolf wrote:



    I stand corrected. You show me a player that averages 14-15 GIR from 6900+ yardages driving 250. Stenson leads the tour at 75% GIR.




    I can name more than a few. One was a recent runner up at US Am Public Links




    That isn't their average over the course of their career. Anyone at anytime can catch lightning in a bottle and have a great week. Over the course of a career you wouldn't gamble on that 250 yard drive week in and week out to win.




    If your kid is only doing 250 it might be good to have a talk with them if they think there going to dominate the pga tour. But at the same time I could see where they get a scholarship if they have good fundamentals and are scoring decent.



    One issue I see too many people get caught up in driving distance and forget is only a factor in a few holes a round. The vast majority or holes are not par 5s or long par 4 on any course. More shots are actually lost missing fairways, greens and not converting putts within 10 feet.



    I know this because I have seen it first hand as there is one girl on the local tour. I would say she drives between 150-180. It a good drive but not long either for what I would consider a top junior girl at 11-12. The thing is she plays her game well and hits fairways and GIR and makes the putts. When she short for a hole she can place the ball for a easy chip to still make par. The thing is she is hard to beat because she still scores low and is consistent. I learned you have to play with what you got rather then try and do something you can't.




    Guys play a much different game.




    I am not sure if guys are that different the only thing is not many girls can hit 300 yards so they have to work on different aspects of the game to win. The lpga is a good example of how short hitters can win. If long drivers were the key Lexi Thompson and a few other would have been unstoppable.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #44

    iteachgolf wrote:



    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.




    I have a top 100 player in every class all the way until 2023 and none are longer than 270-280 at sea level in FL. And I’m taking kids who have played in and some also won some of the biggest junior events in the country. One who is a college freshman who currently has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top college teams in the country.





    And again Kevin flies it 240ish, he hits it 265. But you don’t seem to actually want to read what anyone else writes as you’ve been corrected on that already.




    You don’t coach a single male junior golfer that can hit it 300 total?




    Can on occasion or averages 300? Plenty can if every condition is perfect hit it 300 yes. But none would say they average 300. Almost all swing between 103-110 and fly he ball 250-270. The 2023 only hits it about 240 yards. By the time they graduate college they will all swing 110+. Hitting it a legit 300 in FL at sea level is very long on overwhelming majority of courses. There’s a big difference between having 80 yards in on a 400 yard dogleg and actually hitting a ball 300 yards in a straight line.



    Now I do have a decent number who are in college who swing 117-125 mph, and I have plenty of pros who swing 118+.



    The top jr I teach is a tournament +7.6 handicap and swings 108 (was 2018 grad)
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:


    iteachgolf wrote:



    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.




    I have a top 100 player in every class all the way until 2023 and none are longer than 270-280 at sea level in FL. And I’m taking kids who have played in and some also won some of the biggest junior events in the country. One who is a college freshman who currently has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top college teams in the country.





    And again Kevin flies it 240ish, he hits it 265. But you don’t seem to actually want to read what anyone else writes as you’ve been corrected on that already.




    You don’t coach a single male junior golfer that can hit it 300 total?




    Can on occasion or averages 300? Plenty can if every condition is perfect hit it 300 yes. But none would say they average 300. Almost all swing between 103-110 and fly he ball 250-270. The 2023 only hits it about 240 yards. By the time they graduate college they will all swing 110+. Hitting it a legit 300 in FL at sea level is very long on overwhelming majority of courses.



    Now I do have a decent number who are in college who swing 117-125 mph, and I have plenty of pros who swing 118+.




    I’m not talking average. But I am talking 110+ swing speed on trackman. I don’t know why we keep creeping up the numbers. A poster started this dispute by saying he thinks a 250 driver has a good shot at D1. Then he followed up by saying that’s great with 80% GIR. 80%! Then you added that you knew of a player that was a top amateur with 240 carry. Now we’re at 270-280 average. What are we talking about?! My point was that distance matters. That the ability to swing 115 mph or otherwise has the ideal setup to poke it 300 is very important in not only getting into a top D1, but playing on the traveling 5. I know it does to Division I coaches. They’ve said it to me. You are saying that distance has no bearing in recruitment efforts so long as the kid has shown the ability to score. There’s an entire thread about an OSU player that consistently qualifies but doesn’t get to travel bc he is perceived as short.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/




    That’s carry with 113 swing speed. Iteach is talking 97mph swing speed.
  • darter79darter79 Members Posts: 698 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    https://blog.trackma...age-tour-stats/




    That is carry something to note. You take 275 carry then thats a 300+. Same thing on the lpga 218 thats closer to the 250 mark.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #48
    darter79 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    [url="https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/"]https://blog.trackma...age-tour-stats/[/url]




    That is carry something to note. You take 275 carry then thats a 300+. Same thing on the lpga 218 thats closer to the 250 mark.




    I think people are getting carried away the original question is about D1 college. I am pretty sure there not all hitting I t 300 yards just to be competitive.



    Does it help to hit far yes I don’t thing anyone disputes that. But if someone can’t hit that far there are gains in other areas you can make and still be a scratch golfer.



    Only a few players ever could hit far and have a short game. We could probably count them on one hand. The last one we saw was Tiger Woods in his prime. I don’t think anyone on tour Today is as good as he was in his prime when it comes to the short game. He is not the same today and why he is not winning.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #49
    tiger1873 wrote:

    darter79 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    [url="https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/"]https://blog.trackma...age-tour-stats/[/url]




    That is carry something to note. You take 275 carry then thats a 300+. Same thing on the lpga 218 thats closer to the 250 mark.




    I think people are getting carried away the original question is about D1 college. I am pretty sure there not all hitting I t 300 yards just to be competitive.



    Does it help to hit far yes I don’t thing anyone disputes that. But if someone can’t hit that far there are gains in other areas you can make and still be a scratch golfer.



    Only a few players ever could hit far and have a short game. We could probably count them on one hand. The last one we saw was Tiger Woods in his prime. I don’t think anyone on tour Today is as good as he was in his prime when it comes to the short game. He is not the same today and why he is not winning.




    And therein lies our disagreement. I don’t think you grasp the current state of junior golf. Kids are long with stellar short games. I don’t even know why we keep arguing about this. Just watch the D1 championship - individual or team play. Watch the junior am. Go to an AJGA event. Read threads about parents of collegiate golfers. We’re not tallking about just making the team are we? Aren’t we talking about be a playing D1 player?
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭

    iteachgolf wrote:


    iteachgolf wrote:



    Of course scoring average at reputable events and polo/jgs rankings is the number one factor. Where we disagree is how one achieves that scoring average/ranking. In my opinion and what I’ve been able to see throughout the high school procsss is that there is a general correlation between distance and scoring average. I’m not talking about the 10% that are short and ranked top 100. I’m sure that’s not what OP was asking as well - trying to fight to be in the top 10% of short hitters. And when I say short - I’m not talking 240! I’m talking 270-280 total driving distance. I would consider that very average at the AJGA level, especially at the invitational level.




    I have a top 100 player in every class all the way until 2023 and none are longer than 270-280 at sea level in FL. And I’m taking kids who have played in and some also won some of the biggest junior events in the country. One who is a college freshman who currently has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top college teams in the country.





    And again Kevin flies it 240ish, he hits it 265. But you don’t seem to actually want to read what anyone else writes as you’ve been corrected on that already.




    You don’t coach a single male junior golfer that can hit it 300 total?




    Can on occasion or averages 300? Plenty can if every condition is perfect hit it 300 yes. But none would say they average 300. Almost all swing between 103-110 and fly he ball 250-270. The 2023 only hits it about 240 yards. By the time they graduate college they will all swing 110+. Hitting it a legit 300 in FL at sea level is very long on overwhelming majority of courses.



    Now I do have a decent number who are in college who swing 117-125 mph, and I have plenty of pros who swing 118+.




    I’m not talking average. But I am talking 110+ swing speed on trackman. I don’t know why we keep creeping up the numbers. A poster started this dispute by saying he thinks a 250 driver has a good shot at D1. Then he followed up by saying that’s great with 80% GIR. 80%! Then you added that you knew of a player that was a top amateur with 240 carry. Now we’re at 270-280 average. What are we talking about?! My point was that distance matters. That the ability to swing 115 mph or otherwise has the ideal setup to poke it 300 is very important in not only getting into a top D1, but playing on the traveling 5. I know it does to Division I coaches. They’ve said it to me. You are saying that distance has no bearing in recruitment efforts so long as the kid has shown the ability to score. There’s an entire thread about an OSU player that consistently qualifies but doesn’t get to travel bc he is perceived as short.




    And again I can’t point out 50 other experience where players are short in stature and/or distance and the coach doesn’t care and they are top players.



    240 carry is 265 average. I prefer using carry yardages as it’s not dependent on firmness of the fairways. You’re the one that said 270-280 is short.





    I’ll make it crystal clear for you. You absolutely positively don’t have to swing 115mph to play on a top D1 team. You don’t have to swing 115mph to be a great player on PGA tour. Beau hossler swings just over 110mph. He had no issues in college or in professional golf. Spieth averaged 110-111mph his rookie year on the PGA Tour. Was slower in college and junior golf. Didn’t hurt him.



    Phillip Knowles is one of the top college golfers in the country and hits it about 280. Andrew Alligood who finished 2nd at US Am in stroke play and made it to quarterfinals is even shorter and also one of the top college golfers. These aren’t one or two stories. Those two play on the same team. I could post plenty more. Length is a factor and an advantage but it’s far from necessary
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭

    tiger1873 wrote:

    darter79 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    [url="https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/"]https://blog.trackma...age-tour-stats/[/url]




    That is carry something to note. You take 275 carry then thats a 300+. Same thing on the lpga 218 thats closer to the 250 mark.




    I think people are getting carried away the original question is about D1 college. I am pretty sure there not all hitting I t 300 yards just to be competitive.



    Does it help to hit far yes I don’t thing anyone disputes that. But if someone can’t hit that far there are gains in other areas you can make and still be a scratch golfer.



    Only a few players ever could hit far and have a short game. We could probably count them on one hand. The last one we saw was Tiger Woods in his prime. I don’t think anyone on tour Today is as good as he was in his prime when it comes to the short game. He is not the same today and why he is not winning.




    And therein lies our disagreement. I don’t think you grasp the current state of junior golf. Kids are long with stellar short games. I don’t even know why we keep arguing about this. Just watch the D1 championship - individual or team play. Watch the junior am. Go to an AJGA event. Read threads about parents of collegiate golfers. We’re not tallking about just making the team are we? Aren’t we talking about be a playing D1 player?




    If you don’t think I have a grasp on junior golf than I don’t know who does. I’m ranked top 25 elite junior coach in the country (and have been for multiple years) and have players in every major AJGA invitational, US Jr (boys and girls), Jr PGA, etc. One of my students won the Western Junior this year. I’ve taught 4 NCAA National Champions and 10 All Americans. Literally every junior I’ve taught the last 4 years, every single one, will play college golf on scholarship. I understand what’s going on in junior golf.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #52
    You keep citing examples to refute a general statement. And you’re not even refuting it. Here’s a question. How many of your players that are 270-280 or less total are actually playing at a top D1. Not just on the team but playing. Top 50 D1. The OP was what it takes to play at a top D1 program. Not just make the team. But play. And I find it funny that you keep defending this subject as many of the top teachers in this area that are well known in the country seem to agree with me through my conversations. So now I’m supposed to believe that I’ve been misinfomed by top teachers and D1 coaches?
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭


    You keep citing examples to refute a general statement. And you’re not even refuting it. Here’s a question. How many of your players that are 270-280 or less total are actually playing at a top D1. Not just on the team but playing. Top 50 D1. The OP was what it takes to play at a top D1 program. Not just make the team. But play. And I find it funny that you keep defending this subject as many of the top teachers in this area that are well known in the country seem to agree with me through my conversations.




    Distance is an advantage. But again you don’t NEED to hit it 300, 280 is far enough to be a top player. And again i said my juniors from 2019-2023 hit it 240-280. They obviously aren’t in college yet. But they have offers (except 2022 and 2023 who absolutely will have offers).



    I already told you the one has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top teams in the country, events haven’t started for 2018/2019 but he will definitely be playing and probably as number 2 in front of multiple seniors. Currently have 12 that will start at top 50 programs this year, maybe more. You don’t win All American or a national title on the bench.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭

    tiger1873 wrote:

    darter79 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    Iteach is spot on what he talking about.



    Here is the average distances on the pga and lpga tour from track man.This is for everyone not just the leaders. They average 275 yards which tells me some are obviously hitting it less and some more. The lpga only hits it only 218.



    You have to remember that this is the best tour with the best players so the distances will for sure be less the lower you go. Most people over estimate what there or there competitors are driving the ball. It is very easy to do.



    [url="https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/"]https://blog.trackma...age-tour-stats/[/url]




    That is carry something to note. You take 275 carry then thats a 300+. Same thing on the lpga 218 thats closer to the 250 mark.




    I think people are getting carried away the original question is about D1 college. I am pretty sure there not all hitting I t 300 yards just to be competitive.



    Does it help to hit far yes I don’t thing anyone disputes that. But if someone can’t hit that far there are gains in other areas you can make and still be a scratch golfer.



    Only a few players ever could hit far and have a short game. We could probably count them on one hand. The last one we saw was Tiger Woods in his prime. I don’t think anyone on tour Today is as good as he was in his prime when it comes to the short game. He is not the same today and why he is not winning.




    And therein lies our disagreement. I don’t think you grasp the current state of junior golf. Kids are long with stellar short games. I don’t even know why we keep arguing about this. Just watch the D1 championship - individual or team play. Watch the junior am. Go to an AJGA event. Read threads about parents of collegiate golfers. We’re not tallking about just making the team are we? Aren’t we talking about be a playing D1 player?




    The hard truth is most people players short games are not that good today period. The short game was played a lot better 20-30 years ago because they had to. Kids today think bombing and hitting it close to the tee is a good short game. If you look at putting statistics there not pretty past 6 feet.



    Back In the day Tiger would chip in shots to make birdie that you couldn’t believe was possible. The same thing with Phil or Jack Nicolas or Alnold Palmer . Go back even furth and you can talk about bobby Jones or bobby Locke.



    I wouldn’t be surprised if we seen a ball or driver roll back in a few years since technology is making people think golf is all about driving.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 299 ✭✭
    iteachgolf wrote:



    You keep citing examples to refute a general statement. And you’re not even refuting it. Here’s a question. How many of your players that are 270-280 or less total are actually playing at a top D1. Not just on the team but playing. Top 50 D1. The OP was what it takes to play at a top D1 program. Not just make the team. But play. And I find it funny that you keep defending this subject as many of the top teachers in this area that are well known in the country seem to agree with me through my conversations.




    Distance is an advantage. But again you don’t NEED to hit it 300, 280 is far enough to be a top player. And again i said my juniors from 2019-2023 hit it 240-280. They obviously aren’t in college yet. But they have offers (except 2022 and 2023 who absolutely will have offers).



    I already told you the one has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top teams in the country, events haven’t started for 2018/2019 but he will definitely be playing and probably as number 2 in front of multiple seniors. Currently have 12 that will start at top 50 programs this year, maybe more. You don’t win All American or a national title on the bench.




    So I say 300 and you say 280 now. That’s a hellava lot different than 250 or 265. And it’s just not the 15 yards off the tee - it’s the assumption throughout the bag. But I’ll keep believing what I’ve heard directly from coaches and you keep proving me wrong. I guess I’ll be the only one misinformed.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭

    iteachgolf wrote:



    You keep citing examples to refute a general statement. And you’re not even refuting it. Here’s a question. How many of your players that are 270-280 or less total are actually playing at a top D1. Not just on the team but playing. Top 50 D1. The OP was what it takes to play at a top D1 program. Not just make the team. But play. And I find it funny that you keep defending this subject as many of the top teachers in this area that are well known in the country seem to agree with me through my conversations.




    Distance is an advantage. But again you don’t NEED to hit it 300, 280 is far enough to be a top player. And again i said my juniors from 2019-2023 hit it 240-280. They obviously aren’t in college yet. But they have offers (except 2022 and 2023 who absolutely will have offers).



    I already told you the one has a big lead in qualifying on one of the top teams in the country, events haven’t started for 2018/2019 but he will definitely be playing and probably as number 2 in front of multiple seniors. Currently have 12 that will start at top 50 programs this year, maybe more. You don’t win All American or a national title on the bench.




    So I say 300 and you say 280 now. That’s a hellava lot different than 250 or 265. And it’s just not the 15 yards off the tee - it’s the assumption throughout the bag. But I’ll keep believing what I’ve heard directly from coaches and you keep proving me wrong. I guess I’ll be the only one misinformed.




    Again you’re the one who set the goal post of 270-280 is short. You can believe what you want. Facts are facts. I can post launch monitor data to prove my side. Coaches all say they want kids who are 6’2 and hit it 330. But not a single coach in the country wouldn’t love to have Phillip Knowles on his golf team. And almost all would love to have Andrew Alligood too.
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,385 ✭✭
    TigerMom wrote:


    Parents and coaches of top players:



    How many hours do you estimate a kid would needed to have dedicated (before graduating high school) to a skill sport in order to be able to play at a top 100 college program?




    There is no formula. You can't make anybody a college golfer just by making them practice a certain number of hours. Golf doesn't work like that.



    One child can dedicate 60 hours a week with a top pro, and never make it. Another can go out and play golf and figure it out. But most will be somewhere in between.

    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Members Posts: 19,891 ✭✭
    Why don't you guys just measure your drivers and call it a day?



    image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
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  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,853 ✭✭
    TaterTot finally got back to the OT. Is the Gladwell theory correct and relevant to getting into a top 100 program. Teach, you've coached a lot of upper level kids, what are your thoughts?
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,715 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    TaterTot finally got back to the OT. Is the Gladwell theory correct and relevant to getting into a top 100 program. Teach, you've coached a lot of upper level kids, what are your thoughts?




    I said earlier that Gladwell has admitted the 10,000 hours doesn’t apply to sports. And it depends on how one defines mastery. Most PGA Tour players peak in their early to mid 30s. So when in college many are well short of 10,000 hours but also are well short of their peak. At least 30% of the kids I’ve taught who’ve played at a high level didn’t touch a club until they were 12-14. I think a fairly athletic kid who’s driven can become very very good in 4-5 years. Well short of 10,000 hours.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,391 ✭✭
    edited Aug 27, 2018 #61
    iteachgolf wrote:

    Shilgy wrote:

    iteachgolf wrote:



    There was a 497 par 4 at the us junior am this year. So he has no chance of a GIR. His scrambling must be better than anyone on PGA. He must average 20 putts a round. 240?!




    Obviously you can’t comprehend someone nothitting it far but being able to shoot low scores. He holds the course record on a 7261 yard course here where he shot 61, and regularly shoots rounds in the low 60s. And guess what there are several almost 500 yard par 4s on that course. He shot the course record at the toughest course in Jacksonville in my opinion the first time he played it. He regularly shoots in the low 60s on 7,000+ yard courses and was one of the top college golfers in the country.



    Btw the course where he made it to the finals of the US Pub Links was a 7680 yards par 71.



    He beat Bryson, Xander, Zach Blair, and others who are now orhave played on Tour.
    I can comprehend a shorter hitter playing well. But if that is the norm for him I'm asking what is lacking? He is 29 years old and time is running out. He is not making a good living on the local tour.




    I hadn’t gotten to your post yet. He hasn’t played as well out of the country or on the Web.com tour. He was also just out of college and inexperienced the only year he played on the Web. What do you define as a good living? He’s making more than the average engineer playing golf for a living. He’s made at least $80,000 this year which is more than some guys playing in Web.com tour finals have made.





    Professional golf is hard. You need a lot of luck along with a lot of skill. Here are his results from another tour this year. Could also post another tour where he’s also leading the money list.



    R3SAcMd.png
    Oh I agree with you how difficult professional golf is. When buddies trash talk a tour pro I will point out that there are 750 or so professional baseball players. And none of them are bad. Heck, there are 70 or so mlb all stars. And yet guys will say #60 on tour is not good because he hasn't won. It's just always interesting to me to see a player, I hesitate to use the word dominate, do very well and score well on smaller tours but not be able to carry that forward.

    Golf is hard.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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