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Blades and the search for "game improvement"

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  • ItsjustagameItsjustagame Advanced Members Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    So it seems many people who play blades and many people who don't play blades feel iron selection has no significant impact on scoring and it's all about personal preference?

    Seems pretty simple and should about wrap up this thread.
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  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    buzlin wrote:
    BiggErn wrote:

    buzlin wrote:
    OP, I'm assuming by now you've figured out why these threads get locked. It's become quite polarizing and political.



    I've played my best with MBs and subscribe to your philosophy about the lack of compensation and increased feedback being beneficial to improving. I play both MBs and CBs depending on how I feel about my game and how much time I have to practice.



    What you'll continue to see is people making personal statements about what works for them, and then people jump all over them with their own personal experience, or better yet, assume because MBs work for them that they must be part of the small but passionate (and somewhat misinformed) blade crazies.



    I again like it to politics, if you disagree then it must mean you're on one extreme or another. Many don't want to hear or accept anyone's personal thoughts if they differ from their own.






    I liken it to reality and physics. The supposed greater feedback doesn’t mean you’ll get better. Living with more penal shots does not guarantee you’ll get better. Of course the feedback thing is a farce anyway as all clubs provide feedback. It’s about playing golf to shoot the lowest score possible not about playing the hardest to hit clubs for the challenge with the fallacy they will make you better.


    Bigg, love it. Thanks for playing along.




    You’re welcome. Good times
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭


    So it seems many people who play blades and many people who don't play blades feel iron selection has no significant impact on scoring and it's all about personal preference?

    Seems pretty simple and should about wrap up this thread.




    Choice of equipment certainly affects scoring. But for some people other things matter more than the lowest possible scores.



    Heck, some people use antique hickory shafted clubs because they enjoy them more than modern clubs.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    farmer wrote:


    Blades have changed a great deal since the '60's, when I started to play. Even the bladiest blades are easier to play than they were back in the day. That said, why is easier a bad thing? If golf is to grow and thrive, having equipment that makes a basic level of competence easier to attain seems a no brainer. A modern GI iron makes it easier to get a ball in the air, bad mishits tend not to be as catastrophic as they were with my old Hagen blades. This is a golf nerd site, and is the only place I've heard a blade-gi debate.


    Too true.

    I've had more than one person ask about them or say cool blades in regards to my S55s. One time I said, oh well, really they're small CB not actually a blade, but it's the most compact iron Ping makes, yadda yadda yadda... as I saw their eyes start to glaze over at my pedantic reply, I copped on. Now I just say - yes, thanks image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • vmanvman Advanced Members Posts: 1,217 ✭✭
    Some of the best ball flight and distance control I've ever seen was by Colin Montgomerie and Lee Westwood. At the time one had original Big Berthas and the other Zing 2's. It's really not about the irons but the individuals using them.
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  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    vman wrote:


    Some of the best ball flight and distance control I've ever seen was by Colin Montgomerie and Lee Westwood. At the time one had original Big Berthas and the other Zing 2's. It's really not about the irons but the individuals using them.


    Didn't Annika use those GIs too? Maybe x-12/14s? Yes a quick google does show that.



    Not comparing us to them, but above folks have made the 'pros' reference.
  • CwebbCwebb Advanced Members Posts: 5,847 ✭✭




    Also, I am self-taught. For that reason, back then a relative on tour advised me if ball-striking was important to me switch to blades. His words, "blades will help me find the proper swing plane, and I believe that was true then... not so much today, as blade design has changed.






    That's a new one that I hadn't heard of image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />
  • dunndunn Advanced Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Practice and hard work lower scores get a golfer as good as possible,



    Equipment is maybe 5%

    The swing, mental approach is 95%



    Why focus on smallest part of equation and only get a 5% return
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    dunn wrote:


    Practice and hard work lower scores get a golfer as good as possible,



    Equipment is maybe 5%

    The swing, mental approach is 95%



    Why focus on smallest part of equation and only get a 5% return




    So are you saying if someone buys a set of AP1’s they are not allowed to practice their swing and mental approach?



    You are allowed to have both, the best clubs AND the hard work and practice. The whole 100% at once!
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,251 ✭✭


    Is an interesting topic, but to me golf is a game, if I want to have hard time, I go back to work and forget retirement, lol.....



    I’ll take advantage of every single piece of technology available, **** skippy! The only exception is my putter, I will continue to use my 330g forever.




    why? why not get a putter that will help you make more putts?
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  • pbr2121pbr2121 Advanced Members Posts: 439
    That's a great point and gives both "sides" a place to meet in the middle imo. I recently reached a new plateau of sorts and am consistently in the low 80s, high 70s. OL irons, huge driver and good putting. The biggest thing to get from 86 to 78 however? A range finder I suspect. What am I waiting on? A new set of hogan blacks. I know a lot of you guys are low single digits but I'm finding fairways and greens kinda boring; I want to be standing 190 out with a tiny four iron in my hand with the wind howling scared sh!tless knowing that I need to hit it just right.
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  • dunndunn Advanced Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭
    Nah, your reading it wrong....



    But hey Ben curtis did exactly what you said and won British Open so



  • mahoniemahonie Advanced Members Posts: 2,366
    duffer987 wrote:

    vman wrote:


    Some of the best ball flight and distance control I've ever seen was by Colin Montgomerie and Lee Westwood. At the time one had original Big Berthas and the other Zing 2's. It's really not about the irons but the individuals using them.


    Didn't Annika use those GIs too? Maybe x-12/14s? Yes a quick google does show that.



    Not comparing us to them, but above folks have made the 'pros' reference.




    Apologies in advance. As great as all three of those players are/were, (I’m always pulling for Westy even now) there will always be a part of me that wonders how much better they could have been....



    Watching Sky trying to get Monty to hit a draw on the 10th tee at Augusta on their simulator was painful to watch...the closest he got was a 3 yard fade. All of those players are acutely aware of their strengths and weaknesses and are very good at playing to them...but I still wonder...
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,251 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:



    Also - why would the thread be locked? Have I broken any rules or is it simply that this topic is so over-discussed that the moderators are bored to death with it?






    There's a contingent of cavity back holy warriors on WRX, who think anyone who is not scratch is delusionial or merely ego driven, if they choose to play blades.




    Funny that. I thought it was because of the flat earth/blade society - who have their own thread that we all play nice with and let it not get locked - who crawl out of it to come start fights before scurrying back to their safe place, where they can tee-hee-hee about all the fools playing anything that doesn't come with a set 2 iron.



    Different perspectives eh image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />






    Duff.. i dont think that thread is still open because you ( as in we not you alone) allow it to be... go troll it..wait 2 hours and see who gets the warning... which is as it should be... Same as one has to be careful in a PXG thread if you arent a fan etc etc .... no one group should be able to ruin topics... This topic was a discussion request by the OP..so both ideas invited.. Why does one faction always feel the need to throw a rock into the crowd ? And ill say it ..its sometimes from either side.





    Its a particularly interesting topic to me because ive tried out many different irons this season...and my scores continued to rise until i went back to some old faithfuls. why? I cant tell you exactly... just to say that i get into a habit of smashing the ball with more forgiving stuff... And i also find it very hard to know where i hit some irons unless theres a ball mark on the face. And im being as serious and genuine as i can be. I truly tried to find a "forgivng" iron i could improve my game with , or at least make easier feeling..And ive yet again failed miserably.



    Am i saying that i tried because i was struggling? NO! quite the opposite.. I had been strking everything the best of my life all winter and far into the spring. Then you think " if i could get a forgiving iron that i hit this well what a stress free game this could be".... but i do not think it exists ... The smaller thinner iron requires precision to score with and im apparently able to do what is required there..BUT somewhere around 2 weeks into trying out anything larger that precision seems to leave me... why ? I do not know. Yet i proved once again that i can swap back.. practice everyday for around 2 weeks and then shoot par or under like flipping a switch ... The reason it such a curiosity to me is that i dont now why this happens. But its happened 3 separate times to me and others post the same ..Yet were told that were crazy etc ..... anyone have any thoughts that are similar ?
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  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭

    duffer987 wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:



    Also - why would the thread be locked? Have I broken any rules or is it simply that this topic is so over-discussed that the moderators are bored to death with it?






    There's a contingent of cavity back holy warriors on WRX, who think anyone who is not scratch is delusionial or merely ego driven, if they choose to play blades.




    Funny that. I thought it was because of the flat earth/blade society - who have their own thread that we all play nice with and let it not get locked - who crawl out of it to come start fights before scurrying back to their safe place, where they can tee-hee-hee about all the fools playing anything that doesn't come with a set 2 iron.



    Different perspectives eh image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />






    Duff.. i dont think that thread is still open because you ( as in we not you alone) allow it to be... go troll it..wait 2 hours and see who gets the warning... which is as it should be... Same as one has to be careful in a PXG thread if you arent a fan etc etc .... no one group should be able to ruin topics... This topic was a discussion request by the OP..so both ideas invited.. Why does one faction always feel the need to throw a rock into the crowd ? And ill say it ..its sometimes from either side.





    Its a particularly interesting topic to me because ive tried out many different irons this season...and my scores continued to rise until i went back to some old faithfuls. why? I cant tell you exactly... just to say that i get into a habit of smashing the ball with more forgiving stuff... And i also find it very hard to know where i hit some irons unless theres a ball mark on the face. And im being as serious and genuine as i can be. I truly tried to find a "forgivng" iron i could improve my game with , or at least make easier feeling..And ive yet again failed miserably.



    Am i saying that i tried because i was struggling? NO! quite the opposite.. I had been strking everything the best of my life all winter and far into the spring. Then you think " if i could get a forgiving iron that i hit this well what a stress free game this could be".... but i do not think it exists ... The smaller thinner iron requires precision to score with and im apparently able to do what is required there..BUT somewhere around 2 weeks into trying out anything larger that precision seems to leave me... why ? I do not know. Yet i proved once again that i can swap back.. practice everyday for around 2 weeks and then shoot par or under like flipping a switch ... The reason it such a curiosity to me is that i dont now why this happens. But its happened 3 separate times to me and others post the same ..Yet were told that were crazy etc ..... anyone have any thoughts that are similar ?


    That's fair BH. I may have been overly snarky in my reply to NJ in part because it's tipping it out so instead of golfing I went to the office, in addition to thinking his reply was of a particularly d1ckish nature I'd expect of someone else not his typically level-headedness.
  • farmerfarmer Advanced Members Posts: 7,716 ✭✭
    Mahonie, CM would have been trying to hook a driver or 3 wood off the 10th tee at Augusta. He had a fade swing, his iron choice had nothing to do with that tee shot. Also had nothing to do with that horrible chunked 7 iron at Winged Foot.
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    mahonie wrote:

    duffer987 wrote:

    vman wrote:


    Some of the best ball flight and distance control I've ever seen was by Colin Montgomerie and Lee Westwood. At the time one had original Big Berthas and the other Zing 2's. It's really not about the irons but the individuals using them.


    Didn't Annika use those GIs too? Maybe x-12/14s? Yes a quick google does show that.



    Not comparing us to them, but above folks have made the 'pros' reference.




    Apologies in advance. As great as all three of those players are/were, (I’m always pulling for Westy even now) there will always be a part of me that wonders how much better they could have been....



    Watching Sky trying to get Monty to hit a draw on the 10th tee at Augusta on their simulator was painful to watch...the closest he got was a 3 yard fade. All of those players are acutely aware of their strengths and weaknesses and are very good at playing to them...but I still wonder...


    Agreed on Monty and Lee - people talk about "best never too...".

    Since they came of age in the previous era of largely sticking to "your tour" as opposed to the modern players, it really is hard to tell how they stack up.

    But ballstriking wise they were quite something and played their stock shots, as most pros overwhelmingly do, no iron changes that.

    Just ask Patrick Reed. He's not hitting draws because his MBs have too much offset and are 'hook machines' image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    dunn wrote:
    Practice and hard work lower scores get a golfer as good as possible,



    Equipment is maybe 5%

    The swing, mental approach is 95%



    Why focus on smallest part of equation and only get a 5% return




    Where did you get these numbers? Some people can practice 24/7 and will never be good or get better. You have to have ability for practice to mean anything and some just do not and never will.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,251 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:


    duffer987 wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:



    Also - why would the thread be locked? Have I broken any rules or is it simply that this topic is so over-discussed that the moderators are bored to death with it?






    There's a contingent of cavity back holy warriors on WRX, who think anyone who is not scratch is delusionial or merely ego driven, if they choose to play blades.




    Funny that. I thought it was because of the flat earth/blade society - who have their own thread that we all play nice with and let it not get locked - who crawl out of it to come start fights before scurrying back to their safe place, where they can tee-hee-hee about all the fools playing anything that doesn't come with a set 2 iron.



    Different perspectives eh image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />






    Duff.. i dont think that thread is still open because you ( as in we not you alone) allow it to be... go troll it..wait 2 hours and see who gets the warning... which is as it should be... Same as one has to be careful in a PXG thread if you arent a fan etc etc .... no one group should be able to ruin topics... This topic was a discussion request by the OP..so both ideas invited.. Why does one faction always feel the need to throw a rock into the crowd ? And ill say it ..its sometimes from either side.





    Its a particularly interesting topic to me because ive tried out many different irons this season...and my scores continued to rise until i went back to some old faithfuls. why? I cant tell you exactly... just to say that i get into a habit of smashing the ball with more forgiving stuff... And i also find it very hard to know where i hit some irons unless theres a ball mark on the face. And im being as serious and genuine as i can be. I truly tried to find a "forgivng" iron i could improve my game with , or at least make easier feeling..And ive yet again failed miserably.



    Am i saying that i tried because i was struggling? NO! quite the opposite.. I had been strking everything the best of my life all winter and far into the spring. Then you think " if i could get a forgiving iron that i hit this well what a stress free game this could be".... but i do not think it exists ... The smaller thinner iron requires precision to score with and im apparently able to do what is required there..BUT somewhere around 2 weeks into trying out anything larger that precision seems to leave me... why ? I do not know. Yet i proved once again that i can swap back.. practice everyday for around 2 weeks and then shoot par or under like flipping a switch ... The reason it such a curiosity to me is that i dont now why this happens. But its happened 3 separate times to me and others post the same ..Yet were told that were crazy etc ..... anyone have any thoughts that are similar ?


    That's fair BH. I may have been overly snarky in my reply to NJ in part because it's tipping it out so instead of golfing I went to the office, in addition to thinking his reply was of a particularly d1ckish nature I'd expect of someone else not his typically level-headedness.






    Thanks for reading my post the way i meant it ... I got what you really meant and i think others did too ... But it was toward the side of "easily misunderstood" as soooo many of MY posts are. lol



    My thoughts on this game is that past a 5 or so handicap its 90% between the ears from there on out... No club generally expected to be better will help on its own.. and i have to constantly remind myself of that . Sometime , someday ill find an iron that offers some level of ball speed help on off center misses and yet still suits my eye and ear on center hits... Ive said it before , for me it is usually sole dependent more than anything... If it doesnt "cut" a shallow long divot i dont get along with it .. And i know before i type that someone will remind me that the ball is off the face before the sole contacts the ground ..Yet it matters anyway . ......Mental...
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  • MitchellMitchell Advanced Members Posts: 5,421 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Personally have found that my game requires a certain look, overall club weight, and amount of feedback in order to keep my tempo in check and strike the ball well. When I get outside of my comfortable parameters to what is commonly characterized as more forgiving, my game tends to suffer....mental😀
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  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Meet Séamus, Squirrel Control Officer Advanced Members Posts: 6,106 ✭✭


    Its a particularly interesting topic to me because ive tried out many different irons this season...and my scores continued to rise until i went back to some old faithfuls. why? I cant tell you exactly...

    <snippysnip>

    ..... anyone have any thoughts that are similar ?






    I've run into this myself. I committed to Eye2+ for a full year, had decent scores after a couple months adjustment period, then watched my scores take off (positively) when I switched back to Rams.



    My theory is that it's not blades vs CB's in the traditional sense, but what I am used to using. At the aforementioned time, I'd been playing those clubs for 12 or 13 years, the Pings for only one, and I only had two years and change with other CB's. I expect it may well be the same for you.



    Or, it could just be you've come across the perfect set up for you. image/pimp.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pimp:' />
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff The GOAT Advanced Members Posts: 27,959 ✭✭
    NRJyzr wrote:



    Also - why would the thread be locked? Have I broken any rules or is it simply that this topic is so over-discussed that the moderators are bored to death with it?






    There's a contingent of cavity back holy warriors on WRX, who think anyone who is not scratch is delusionial or merely ego driven, if they choose to play blades.




    They fit right in with all the 14 indexes who play blades and work it both ways effortlessly....but their short game just holds them back
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff The GOAT Advanced Members Posts: 27,959 ✭✭
    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
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  • mahoniemahonie Advanced Members Posts: 2,366
    farmer wrote:


    Mahonie, CM would have been trying to hook a driver or 3 wood off the 10th tee at Augusta. He had a fade swing, his iron choice had nothing to do with that tee shot. Also had nothing to do with that horrible chunked 7 iron at Winged Foot.




    Yes, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. Monty admitted that a draw was a shot that he couldn’t hit with any confidence...everything to him was a baby fade, a straight shot was closing the face a bit and swinging the same way. I suppose my point was the reason Monty played GIs was that they were the irons best suited to his game. I just wonder whether he lacked the ambition to see how good he could really be and just settled for being the best player ever with GI clubs in Europe.
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  • gbartkogbartko Whooooo! Advanced Members Posts: 609 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    mahonie wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    Mahonie, CM would have been trying to hook a driver or 3 wood off the 10th tee at Augusta. He had a fade swing, his iron choice had nothing to do with that tee shot. Also had nothing to do with that horrible chunked 7 iron at Winged Foot.




    Yes, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. Monty admitted that a draw was a shot that he couldn’t hit with any confidence...everything to him was a baby fade, a straight shot was closing the face a bit and swinging the same way. I suppose my point was the reason Monty played GIs was that they were the irons best suited to his game. I just wonder whether he lacked the ambition to see how good he could really be and just settled for being the best player ever with GI clubs in Europe.




    Right cause all non blade players (even some of the all time greats) lack ambition to play blades?

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  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Advanced Members Posts: 4,994 ✭✭
    It all boils down to choices. MB's are not hard to play with. Prior to the ping eye series of irons, everyone played blades or MB's.

    An individuals score will come from their own talent and skill set, and that is with any style of club. The swing matters, and honestly, not enough emphasis is placed on the player, and too much on the equipment .


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭


    It all boils down to choices. MB's are not hard to play with. Prior to the ping eye series of irons, everyone played blades or MB's.

    An individuals score will come from their own talent and skill set, and that is with any style of club. The swing matters, and honestly, not enough emphasis is placed on the player, and too much on the equipment .




    Yeah I hear lots of people complain after a bad round, “Oh man, my clubs really sucked today”,,,



    Wait a minute. Actually I have never heard anyone say that, ever. They always blame themselves.
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  • farmerfarmer Advanced Members Posts: 7,716 ✭✭
    Mahonie, how good did you want CM, Annika, Se Re, Westy, et al to be? I guarantee they all tried every type of club, and rather than adapting their swings to the clubs, they played the clubs that gave them the best chance to win. Of all blades-GI irons arguments, the perceived weakness of their skill and determination that you seem to have is the weakest I have read. I will agree that Westy had a high tolerance for ugly.
  • jojjoj Advanced Members Posts: 129 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:
    joj wrote:




    I’m the opposite, I play blades and want the most forgiving driver legally allowed.




    Just as a point of interest. You sig has a SLDR 430 + Rocketblades.

    What are you playing these days?




    Oops. I use the app and don’t see any signatures. Didn’t even know I still had one.



    Driver: Ping G400 Max/Srixon 785

    Irons: Srixon 965
  • GautamaGautama Advanced Members Posts: 747 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    nemoblack wrote:

    rrowe wrote:




    You are WAY off here. If you think skiers in the 80s or earlier developed more skill than modern skiers, you are out of your mind. Those straight stiff sticks you are so fond of would have you getting killed skiing the terrain being skied today. Were there big mountain skiers before? Yeah. Were they straight lining giant Alaskan faces? **** no. Equipment progressed and the sport and athletes did as well.



    Have fun noodling down those groomers tho. Are you still skiing in leather boots?




    I'm actually gonna agree with most of what you said here about skis and skiers as it pertains to the top level of the sport. What the big mountain skiers do today is absolutely mind boggling (and frankly, pretty nuts.) What Mikaela Shiffrin and Ted Ligety do in the gates is equally impressive. But when I think about mainstream, average resort skiers, that's where I think the skill has not really improved, but their skiing has, because of equipment. Those skiers had no chance of true carving back in the day, but a lot of them can make a reasonable go of it with today's gear. Skiing powder was especially hopeless for intermediate skiers when skinny skis were the norm.New equipment totally changed that game, but didn't make that class of skiers any more skilled. That said, I don't think the median skill level of skiers has become worse or better in any real way, even though the top end of the sport has pushed the boundaries quite far. Where I'll agree with the OP is that being a good skier on the old gear made transitioning to and capitalizing on the new stuff silly easy.




    Thanks Nemo, exactly my point, which rrowe apparently completely misunderstood and actually just reinforced for me. Obviously new ski equipment is wildly easier to ski and allows skiers of every level to do things that weren't possible for them before. That was my whole point. No one said the old gear was better, quite the opposite. Simply put, to do the same thing requires far less skill than it did in the old days. Period. And the limits of what the elite can do have increased because of it. No debate. And if course my point was that I personally don't believe the same is true with irons, at least to the degree we'd all like to believe. Good golf shots come from hitting the ball well...good scoring comes from playing the game well, and there are no significant shortcuts to competence.



    BTW rrowe, I've skied "big mountains" my whole life all over north America, and excelled in both eras. I know what it was like to go from 207s to 175s and less and ski those "huge Alaskan faces" on both (although I actually like to turn). Do you? I was even sponsored for quite some time. Guessing with your mouth you must live nearby me in Utah, maybe Colorado, and have a number of sponsorships yourself...so give me a PM sometime and we'll go spend a day together on the hill. Should be enlightening.



    Okay, childish retort over and back to golf, at which I suck regardless of what I play image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

    -Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom
  • dunndunn Advanced Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    BiggErn wrote:

    dunn wrote:
    Practice and hard work lower scores get a golfer as good as possible,



    Equipment is maybe 5%

    The swing, mental approach is 95%



    Why focus on smallest part of equation and only get a 5% return




    Where did you get these numbers? Some people can practice 24/7 and will never be good or get better. You have to have ability for practice to mean anything and some just do not and never will.
    been around for years and its prolly lower on club side and higher on skill/mental side.....clubs are better but golfers remain the same avg wise....tour pro can switch brands and sometimes categories of irons but shoot same scores......give this game a run and work your a** off to see how good you can be and see how irrelevant the stick in your hand actually is....

    Like someone above said the better you get the less it matters......



    Its mental approach along with practice that works, just pounding balls is useless



    Equipment forum has 129,000 threads

    Instruction has 59,000.....tell me people dont try to buy a game....which is why handicaps remain the same....



    I get it though...I am single and played 4-7 days a week with practice, it's an unrealistic amt of time.....also played God knows how many sets of irons last 5 years....now I cant play as much I see the difference...

  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Advanced Members Posts: 1,889
    Great post OP and welcome aboard!



    Yes you have struck the overly sensitive nerve of the GI/Fitting Mafia. They believe the only thing that matters is a score and anyone that plays the game for the challenge and the joy of shotmaking with REAL clubs is a moron. Do the right thing, get fitted with something that can help you and cut 2-3 strokes off your score, they say. Yippee! Now that’s something to be proud of.
  • dunndunn Advanced Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    MtlJeff wrote:

    NRJyzr wrote:



    Also - why would the thread be locked? Have I broken any rules or is it simply that this topic is so over-discussed that the moderators are bored to death with it?






    There's a contingent of cavity back holy warriors on WRX, who think anyone who is not scratch is delusionial or merely ego driven, if they choose to play blades.




    They fit right in with all the 14 indexes who play blades and work it both ways effortlessly....but their short game just holds them back
    lol, good one bro.....its amazing isnt
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    Play blades. Shooting 100 never felt so good. It’s about mastering a club you never will and not about shooting a score.
  • gbartkogbartko Whooooo! Advanced Members Posts: 609 ✭✭


    Great post OP and welcome aboard!



    Yes you have struck the overly sensitive nerve of the GI/Fitting Mafia. They believe the only thing that matters is a score and anyone that plays the game for the challenge and the joy of shotmaking with REAL clubs is a moron. Do the right thing, get fitted with something that can help you and cut 2-3 strokes off your score, they say. Yippee! Now that’s something to be proud of.




    lol - “real clubs”. Playing the game for the “challenge” - lol

    Ping G400 10.5
    Ping Rapture 13.5
    Ping G 19/22
    Ping i E1 5-U
    Ping Glide ES 54.5/60
    Ping Anser Milled

  • mahoniemahonie Advanced Members Posts: 2,366
    farmer wrote:


    Mahonie, how good did you want CM, Annika, Se Re, Westy, et al to be? I guarantee they all tried every type of club, and rather than adapting their swings to the clubs, they played the clubs that gave them the best chance to win. Of all blades-GI irons arguments, the perceived weakness of their skill and determination that you seem to have is the weakest I have read. I will agree that Westy had a high tolerance for ugly.




    I dunno, with Monty and Westy I’ve always felt that something was missing from their make up. Thinking about it, perhaps they have got the most possible out of their games but they were just never good enough to win Majors.



    I know that they are amongst the best players ever...watching Westy on the course vlogs with Crossfield shows what a phenomenal player he is. Ping looked after Westy since he was a kid and he’s stated that he would never swap manufacturers so whether he’s tried every type of club I couldn’t say. Honestly, I’d love to hear Westy’s views on why he’s played WITB over the years.



    Perhaps I’m just frustrated that Monty and Westy didn’t really take the European game forward in the same way as Faldo, Seve et al.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • mahoniemahonie Advanced Members Posts: 2,366
    BiggErn wrote:


    Play blades. Shooting 100 never felt so good. It’s about mastering a club you never will and not about shooting a score.




    Shooting 100 is no fun with CBs and doesn’t feel great...there is no excuse! ;-)
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • BMCBMC Advanced Members Posts: 3,459 ✭✭
    It's a discussion board not a debate board.



    Would somebody please tell me what kind of car to drive?
    Callaway Epic Flash driver
    PING Rapture 3 wood
    Cobra Baffler Pro 18* hybrid
    PING Eye2 3 & 4 irons
    PING i25 irons
    Vokey wedges
    Odyssey #1WS
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    BMC wrote:


    Would somebody please tell me what kind of car to drive?




    What’s your handicap and how far do you drive?
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • BMCBMC Advanced Members Posts: 3,459 ✭✭

    BMC wrote:


    Would somebody please tell me what kind of car to drive?




    What’s your handicap and how far do you drive?




    LOL.

    Handicap= lead foot

    Daily Drive=60 miles

    Tour Issue Corolla?
    Callaway Epic Flash driver
    PING Rapture 3 wood
    Cobra Baffler Pro 18* hybrid
    PING Eye2 3 & 4 irons
    PING i25 irons
    Vokey wedges
    Odyssey #1WS
  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Advanced Members Posts: 1,889
    gbartko wrote:



    Great post OP and welcome aboard!



    Yes you have struck the overly sensitive nerve of the GI/Fitting Mafia. They believe the only thing that matters is a score and anyone that plays the game for the challenge and the joy of shotmaking with REAL clubs is a moron. Do the right thing, get fitted with something that can help you and cut 2-3 strokes off your score, they say. Yippee! Now that’s something to be proud of.




    lol - “real clubs”. Playing the game for the “challenge” - lol






    The “real clubs” comment was just a jab to have fun. I don’t care what people play. I would never poke fun at non blade club users. It’s just not me. Whatever makes you happy.



    No matter what side you are on you can’t deny the power of feel, good or bad, with blades. But not all blades feel the same either. So it’s just a matter of preference.



    I am not a gambler, do not play golf competivly, do not play enough to manage an index, do not have the time to even get to where I was 20 years ago. I gave up on the tour at 19, 11 years too late but never said I was a genius. But I do still get a thrill when I pure a shot. I get the same feeling I had at 16 when I was convinced I had finally figured it out. That is what it’s all about for many of us. Scores have no meaning in that sense.

    Because even if I could get back down to mid high eighties, what am I going to do with those scores? I have no passion to achieve hacker plus status again. We are all different. Nothing wrong with that.







  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    Some seriously polarising opinions here on this one!



    As the OP, there's clearly no right or wrong approach - personally I just get more enjoyment out of trying to master a technique than focusing on getting a higher score. In many ways this can be detrimental to a good score as I often play a risky shot that is really out of my reach skill wise just to see if I can pull it off!



    I often take a driver when playing an iron is almost certainly the better scoring play because I enjoy a bit of jeopardy, because in the moment the thrill of pulling it off outweighs the possible detriment to my score. Obviously at the end of the round I look back and think "what the **** was I thinking!"!!



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.



    But then I don't currently compete so as I said before that comes with different criteria for scoring.



    Although with the handicap system if you achieve your handicap with unforgiving clubs and then compete with the same clubs what actual difference have your GI clubs actually made?!



    The same thing applies in many sports and we are all susceptible to upgrade-itis. I also enjoy cycling and have been through a similar situation with my bikes - I would get a new carbon wonder bike, go out and cycle 0.5mph faster for my route and get back and think - "was it worth it? I'm no fitter, I'm no faster - where's the satisfaction?"



    As I said before I'm not criticising anybody for their equipment choices, just highlighting that there are obviously 2 different approaches to the game.



    Another thing to consider:



    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭




    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.




    Forget about 'most forgiving' or however you want to categorize different irons, are you saying is that if you found a set of irons that worked really well for you and you saw improved accuracy you would be unsatisfied with that?

    What if you found you average 1 more birdie per round (or however you want to quantify improved iron play) with Wilson FG Tour v6s or C300s vs FG Tour 100s? You're saying you wouldn't want that? Or you just think it's something like a D300 that would make it unsatisfying?



    That is mental. There will be clubs that fit golfers better than others that help them mitigate their bad swings, but bad swings still happen, because you are still swinging the clubs.

    If you hit 5 greens a round with club A and 7 greens a round with club B, I'd see that as a ringing endorsement and not a bad thing.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,251 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.




    Forget about 'most forgiving' or however you want to categorize different irons, are you saying is that if you found a set of irons that worked really well for you and you saw improved accuracy you would be unsatisfied with that?

    What if you found you average 1 more birdie per round (or however you want to quantify improved iron play) with Wilson FG Tour v6s or C300s vs FG Tour 100s? You're saying you wouldn't want that? Or you just think it's something like a D300 that would make it unsatisfying?



    That is mental. There will be clubs that fit golfers better than others that help them mitigate their bad swings, but bad swings still happen, because you are still swinging the clubs.

    If you hit 5 greens a round with club A and 7 greens a round with club B, I'd see that as a ringing endorsement and not a bad thing.






    absolutely... and thats the rub... I continuously find the opposite.. But i just found out im RH Negative , so likely a descendant of the people of Atlantis.... and they are known as a dodgy backwards bunch..





    seriously though.. If i ever find that iron that omits more greens hit closer to the pin ill buy 3 sets....
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Advanced Members Posts: 1,889


    Some seriously polarising opinions here on this one!



    As the OP, there's clearly no right or wrong approach - personally I just get more enjoyment out of trying to master a technique than focusing on getting a higher score. In many ways this can be detrimental to a good score as I often play a risky shot that is really out of my reach skill wise just to see if I can pull it off!



    I often take a driver when playing an iron is almost certainly the better scoring play because I enjoy a bit of jeopardy, because in the moment the thrill of pulling it off outweighs the possible detriment to my score. Obviously at the end of the round I look back and think "what the **** was I thinking!"!!



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.



    But then I don't currently compete so as I said before that comes with different criteria for scoring.



    Although with the handicap system if you achieve your handicap with unforgiving clubs and then compete with the same clubs what actual difference have your GI clubs actually made?!



    The same thing applies in many sports and we are all susceptible to upgrade-itis. I also enjoy cycling and have been through a similar situation with my bikes - I would get a new carbon wonder bike, go out and cycle 0.5mph faster for my route and get back and think - "was it worth it? I'm no fitter, I'm no faster - where's the satisfaction?"



    As I said before I'm not criticising anybody for their equipment choices, just highlighting that there are obviously 2 different approaches to the game.



    Another thing to consider:



    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?






    Responding to your last paragraph. To be fair there is a payoff to playing blades when struck well. So to suggest blade users love the challenge of defeating torture is misleading. We play blades because they give us the best response possible, when struck clean.



    As far as your dream club. Well of course I would play that club, just as I use titanium drivers. But this is more if we all owned a basement full of gold, what would be the value? Totally different argument than the GI vs Blade one. My opinion anyway.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,623 ClubWRX
    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.
    What's In The Bag This Week:

    Epic Flash SZ driver
    Epic Flash SZ 3 wood
    Callaway Apex UT 3 iron
    new irons pending (Srixon Z Forged are looking good)
    new wedges pending (vokey maybe)
    Cameron Newport 3 @ 34 inch
    Chrome Soft X ball
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    edited September 2018

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20’s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don’t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20&#146;s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don&#146;t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.




    Stop compensating and practice image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    edited September 2018


    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?




    I might buy it but unfortunately I can’t muster anything near 100mph. You think I could get maybe 250 at 90mph?



    The hook/slice thing doesn’t matter. My big miss is a dead straight lefty block 40 yards into the left woods!
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.







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