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Blades and the search for "game improvement"

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Comments

  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭


    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.




    The question being discussed isn’t whether to buy clubs or not. The question is why spend 700 quid on a shiny set of tiny-headed ‘blades” when for the same money you could get big, ugly clubs that let you hit two more greens per round.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • theothertwotheothertwo Advanced Members Posts: 2,464 ✭✭


    Do "game improvement" clubs actually improve your game?



    I ask this as I feel that there are 2 ways to approach golf and indeed any other sporting or competitive activity.



    1. Aiming to get the lowest score possible

    2. Aiming to be as good as possible



    The 2 are obviously not mutually exclusive. For me the second option is the goal and the first option is simply a way of measuring the second.



    If we are not playing in a competition then where does the need for game improvement clubs come in? If your average score comes down by 4 strokes by playing cavity backed GI clubs then what have you achieved?



    This is the crux of my point - are we not all better off playing unforgiving blades and small headed drivers that do not pander to our inconsistencies?



    If we make a bad swing and the club compensates for this allowing us to hit the green then we lose the incentive - the requirement - to perfect that swing.



    This is analogous to upgrading equipment in many other forms of sport. For me the challenge and joy of golf and all other sports I play is mastering the technique and the less forgiving the equipment the more I am driven to do so and the more joy there is in nailing that perfect shot.




    I completely get this and just recently tried it. For me, there is an age factor and since I'm 60 and not practicing as much, my switch to blades was not beneficial. The good shots with the blades were excellent and addicting but there were too many misses.



    It's a great idea and I wish you all the best, blades are pure joy if you can master them, which eventually will make you swing better IMO.
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16


    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?




    People seem to be taking this quite personally, I've no problems with anyone or any clubs they choose to play so why are people getting worked up about this?



    I don't think the first world problems term is applicable here as I am not complaining about anything, just expressing myself and how I like to approach things.



    And as regards whether I would rather spend £700 on a "shiny set of tiny-headed ‘blades” " or "big, ugly clubs that let you hit two more greens per round" - yes I would choose the shiny headed blades because for me they are desirable, challenging and beautiful and to me that has more value than hitting 2 more greens per round. And I would always looks at eh big ugly clubs and think - "Ewww - those clubs are ugly, I wish I'd bought the **** blades"!
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018


    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.


    Has nothing to do with going out and spending loads of money on clubs.



    TBH generally speaking no 'side' is perplexed by the other. Everyone know where everyone stands, some simply disagree with various arguments being offered up.

    It is only for the purpose of having a simple dividing line for a debate there even are 'sides' as such, because there are many more than two: but on the course we're all just golfers.



    As you're the one talking about purchasing clubs. No one here has ever made a money/purchase argument because that is a completely different discussion.

    It's about choice and you've said you would rather play blades and hit 29% fewer greens per round, than if you played a small cavity back iron, that at address absolutely looks the part for what someone would want in a players iron.



    So here's a question for folks: Would you accept hitting 29% fewer GIRs so you could play the Wilson FG100 instead of the Wilson FG Tour V6? image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • chisagchisag Advanced Members Posts: 2,893 ✭✭


    No matter what side you are on you can't deny the power of feel, good or bad, with blades. But not all blades feel the same either. So it's just a matter of preference.



    I am not a gambler, do not play golf competivly, do not play enough to manage an index, do not have the time to even get to where I was 20 years ago. I gave up on the tour at 19, 11 years too late but never said I was a genius. But I do still get a thrill when I pure a shot. I get the same feeling I had at 16 when I was convinced I had finally figured it out. That is what it's all about for many of us. Scores have no meaning in that sense.

    Because even if I could get back down to mid high eighties, what am I going to do with those scores? I have no passion to achieve hacker plus status again. We are all different. Nothing wrong with that.






    ... I usually stay out of these silly threads but that is one of the best responses I have read. MB's do not make you a better ball striker unless you lack discipline. For me at least, they don't feel any better hit absolutely dead center the my P790's hit dead center. A little more dense? Sure, but they both feel like nothing when pured. But obviously that is just personal opinion as someone that played at least 10 different sets of MB's before switching to forged CB's. Ymmv.



    ... But to the crux of your post, playing any club because you enjoy playing it and consider scoring secondary or even inconsequential certainly makes sense. I am the opposite and want to at a minimum shoot my age by 66, and I am 65 now. I am looking to play in some super senior tournaments next year as I love the competition. And most competitors want to shoot their lowest score. So playing the clubs that give me the best chance of shooting my lowest score will always be in my bag. And the day that becomes SGI shovels, I will happily play them even if they look like a Croc On A Stick.
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Atmos Blue TS 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F6 Baffler ... Kuro Kage Black 75s
    TaylorMade UDi 18* 2 iron... HZRDUS Black 85hy
    4-pw TaylorMade P790 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • BMCBMC Advanced Members Posts: 3,459 ✭✭
    Given both in good condition, I would rather drive a 1967 Corvette versus a 2017 Corvette...despite the 2017 being faster.



    I don't make a living playing golf, so I play what I enjoy. It's recreation.
    Callaway Epic Flash driver
    PING Rapture 3 wood
    Cobra Baffler Pro 18* hybrid
    PING Eye2 3 & 4 irons
    PING i25 irons
    Vokey wedges
    Odyssey #1WS
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    BMC wrote:


    Given both in good condition, I would rather drive a 1967 Corvette versus a 2017 Corvette...despite the 2017 being faster.



    I don't make a living playing golf, so I play what I enjoy. It's recreation.






    Perfect analogy. The 1967 Corvette would be less forgiving and more rewarding (and way cooler) - it would demand that you perfected your driving skill to get the best out of and it would punish you if you were cack-handed or heavy footed.



    As for 29% less GIR to play the FG100.... those are some lovely clubs, I'll take those and just practice more to hopefully mitigate the 29% losses!
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,264 ✭✭


    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?




    Multiple factions on either major side here I think.



    I don’t subscribe to what you’re saying at all. By that I mean I am not playing a small iron because a large one bores me.

    I just don’t get any benefit to playing newer bigger irons so far. Wider dispersion and higher scores. Why ? Same reason you scored higher with the opposite. The club doesn’t fit me or so im told.



    At least that what’s I was told when my putting miraculously changed over night when I started using a mallet with a big line. Was told “ you just found the putter that fits you. “. So the opposite has to be true of someone who scores better with a smaller iron. Right ?
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Meet Séamus, Squirrel Control Officer Advanced Members Posts: 6,107 ✭✭


    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20’s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don’t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.






    The clubs matter to me too, but opposite how they matter to you. I can't play G20's, as posted earlier. I dropped my hdcp 7-9 strokes after switching to blades. I dropped my hdcp 3 strokes by playing persimmons for three months. I played Eye2+ for a year, didnt change my scores. I'm testing Pinhawk SL irons, so far they havent changed much, other than letting me hit a club with a "4" on the sole where I'd been hitting a club with "2" on the sole (same loft).



    What I play works for me. That's as far as I go with it. I'm not sacrificing score, or anything, in my choice of clubs. It might work for others, it might not work for others. It is what it is.
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Cobra King LTD, ProtoPype 80x or RIP 80x, 43.5" -or- SuperDeep 9.5*, ProtoPype 80x or NV85x, 43.5"
    3w: Cobra King LTD, Motore F1 85 X, 42.5"
    1 iron: Maxfli Revolution, DGS400
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  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,623 ClubWRX


    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?
    What's In The Bag This Week:

    Epic Flash SZ driver
    Epic Flash SZ 3 wood
    Callaway Apex UT 3 iron
    new irons pending (Srixon Z Forged are looking good)
    new wedges pending (vokey maybe)
    Cameron Newport 3 @ 34 inch
    Chrome Soft X ball
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭



    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?




    The entire set, 14 Clubs. And not one day, about ten different days over a period of a year. Mostly nine holes at a time, but a couple times I played full rounds.



    The clubs make a huge difference. Are you actually claiming that anyone will shot the same scores whether the clubs are antiques or modern?
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,623 ClubWRX




    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?




    The entire set, 14 Clubs. And not one day, about ten different days over a period of a year. Mostly nine holes at a time, but a couple times I played full rounds.



    The clubs make a huge difference. Are you actually claiming that anyone will shot the same scores whether the clubs are antiques or modern?
    no, i am just saying that there are more variables than just equipment. There is going to be a difference however i just find it hard to believe that anyone can place it entirely on equipment. Maybe you can from your experience based on the 10 rounds you have played over that period of time however my point is still this... it is impossible to say i would have played ___ shots better or worse that round from last week if i played different equipment. You may be able to identify trends over a period of time but none will ever be able to equate that to a single round guarantee. Also the initial debate here is with irons vs irons... your situation is amplified because of the entire set swap, even still that amplified number is actually undetermined over a single round.

    I went out and played a round with a full demo set of oversized irons and more forgiving woods than normal... i shot a round of 86. From the same tees as normal. Now some would say that was a bad round for playing with shovels... i say i just had a bad day, didn't drive it well, hit less than half GIR's and around 36 putts. now how am i supposed to say i would have done either better or worse than my own full set... i can't. Thats my point.
    What's In The Bag This Week:

    Epic Flash SZ driver
    Epic Flash SZ 3 wood
    Callaway Apex UT 3 iron
    new irons pending (Srixon Z Forged are looking good)
    new wedges pending (vokey maybe)
    Cameron Newport 3 @ 34 inch
    Chrome Soft X ball
  • Golfer4LifeGolfer4Life Bob Parsons Bodyguard, Chump! ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 2,152
    Great read! I play irons that are good for my game.. I know I can’t hit a blade and obtain the same results that I obtain with my CB irons. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong on this equation, at least not for me. I play to enjoy the game, if one day I get better results with blades, by all means.
    PXG Derangement Syndrome, it is real.......<br /><br />Equipment:<br /><br />A bag full of PXG’s<br />Non Titleist Welded Neck 35/330g SC 009<br /><br />“Check your Ego at the Club House and Play the Correct Tees”
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,623 ClubWRX
    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.
    What's In The Bag This Week:

    Epic Flash SZ driver
    Epic Flash SZ 3 wood
    Callaway Apex UT 3 iron
    new irons pending (Srixon Z Forged are looking good)
    new wedges pending (vokey maybe)
    Cameron Newport 3 @ 34 inch
    Chrome Soft X ball
  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.
  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Advanced Members Posts: 1,149 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    I can only assume that this is a very individual topic, and people get relatively individual results.



    Personally I'm an average golfer and I play blades. The only time I haven't been happy with them is when I'm not playing well in general, or when I start to believe there are clubs out there that I would get better results from, or score better with.



    I have no pride in playing blades. Nobody cares. I think two people have commented on it in an entire year. I'd switch tomorrow if I could get better results.



    Larger sweet spots, better MOI etc. makes complete sense to me, yet I've invested in multiple cavity back sets and countless individual heads in an attempt to find clubs that will give me better results. To date I haven't found anything that improves my game or saves my wilder strikes. My bad ones are so bad they cannot be saved.



    My guess is if you're very precise and your misses are by a mil or two that there's a meaningful difference in result on those 'bad' strikes vs. what a blade would give? I can see that's entirely possible.



    All I know is it's a confounding topic. I think marketing has helped to create the more extreme differences in perception.
  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    PorscheFan wrote:


    I can only assume that this is a very individual topic, and people get relatively individual results.



    Personally I'm an average golfer and I play blades. The only time I haven't been happy with them is when I'm not playing well in general, or when I start to believe there are clubs out there that I would get better results from, or score better with.



    I have no pride in playing blades. Nobody cares. I think two people have commented on it in an entire year. I'd switch tomorrow if I could get better results.



    Larger sweet spots, better MOI etc. makes complete sense to me, yet I've invested in multiple cavity back sets and countless individual heads in an attempt to find clubs that will give me better results. To date I haven't found anything that improves my game or saves my wilder strikes. My bad ones are so bad they cannot be saved.



    My guess is if you're very precise and your misses are by a mil or two that there's a meaningful difference in result on those 'bad' strikes vs. what a blade would give? I can see that's entirely possible.



    All I know is it's a confounding topic. I think marketing has helped to create the more extreme differences in perception.


    What blades are you currently playing and where do you start with them in the bag?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,264 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.




    thats a heap of absolutes in a mostly grey game my friend... If we use those logics as laws then no player over a 0-2 cap should play any putter that resembles an Anser etc ..But many many do and they do it ridicule free. Point is the handicap test doesnt really work ...



    I wish i had taken pics of these..But i once owned a set of mizuno MP33 that i bought sight unseen .. The toe of these irons was worn to nothing..a tight quarter size spot on each toe ...Now this person had a very repeatable strike , obviously ...but played this toe miss...was it swing or lie angle issues ? i dont know...But im guessing he/she knew how far each iron went on pure toe strikes ( lol) and how far if they missed. Thats all it boils down to...knowing your game and playing the right club for the shot at hand . with some sets it will have a 7 on the sole..with some a 9... thats all.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design AD DI 8X
    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
    Ping i500 4-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged 50 54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Meet Séamus, Squirrel Control Officer Advanced Members Posts: 6,107 ✭✭
    edited September 2018

    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.




    thats a heap of absolutes in a mostly grey game my friend... If we use those logics as laws then no player over a 0-2 cap should play any putter that resembles an Anser etc ..But many many do and they do it ridicule free. Point is the handicap test doesnt really work ...



    I wish i had taken pics of these..But i once owned a set of mizuno MP33 that i bought sight unseen .. The toe of these irons was worn to nothing..a tight quarter size spot on each toe ...Now this person had a very repeatable strike , obviously ...but played this toe miss...was it swing or lie angle issues ? i dont know...But im guessing he/she knew how far each iron went on pure toe strikes ( lol) and how far if they missed. Thats all it boils down to...knowing your game and playing the right club for the shot at hand . with some sets it will have a 7 on the sole..with some a 9... thats all.






    From my perspective, what you termed "absolutes" in ernie's post above aren't even valid. I've done a fair bit of side by side testing; since ernie wants to wallow in the anecdotal, let's add to it. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    The best example.... Maxfli A10 6 iron, Rifle 6.5 shaft, 37.5" long, 30°. Hit way out on the toe on a 180 yd par 3. Ball comes up short of green. Next up, Ram Tour Grind 5 iron, Rifle 6.5 shaft, 37.5" long, 30°. Hit way out on the toe on the same 180 yd par 3, right after the A10 shot. Ball comes up short of green. Get up to the golfballs on the fringe, you could throw a blanket over them. They were within a foot of each other in terms of distance. Amusingly, the Ram was actually the longer shot.



    Forgiveness levels.... the MOI of the A10 is 2520. The MOI of the Ram Tour Grind is 1972. Same strike, but the higher MOI produced no result improvement. Which is in line with Britt Lindsey's comments about the MOI differences in irons not being significant.



    It's just one example of what I've seen, doing tests over the years. It's anecdotal as ****. But it's real world results, not theories spun from bias.



    Side note: it's harder than it might seem to intentionally hit a ball that far on the toe. LOL
    The Ever Changing Bag!

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  • cliffhangercliffhanger ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 1,623 ClubWRX
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.
    what i said was that when i do not commit to practicing multiple times per week i have been struggling. In an earlier post i stated that my GIR % has suffered as a result. At no time have i said i play blades because of the look or because of turf interaction. In fact i can't recall saying anything other than because i wanted to try them and to be honest i don't need to justify that anymore than you need to justify your last iron purchase (i notice like a lot of people who argue in these threads you do not post your equip or index... interesting). I have not even committed to play them beyond this year. Truth be told my posts have actually been me trying to talk myself into CB's for next year because i am not sure if i can commit to practicing the amount i need to continue playing the MBs. What's interesting in the whole MB vs CB debate is how people continue to try and push their opinions on others like it is a fact. I am simply stating that my results are my results and that everyone's results will vary. One player might be a 3-4 stroke per round difference and another player might be 12-15... who knows right. I also believe that someone doesn't have to be suffering from mental issues, ego issues or be in denial to play a golf club that contradicts your decision (or my decision as well). The biggest part of this thread is the tendency to try and insult others to get a point across like it validates the facts (i mean the opinion)... is that really necessary? i applaud those who feel that a larger club will make the game easier for them if that is what brings them happiness, i also applaud those who try to play a smaller club for whatever crazy reason they have as long as it brings them happiness. And what brings me happiness is simply playing the game regardless of score. I don't expect you to understand that because it is a personal thing for me. I get to play with my son who also loves the game... i haven't beat him in over two years and i don't care lol.
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  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Advanced Members Posts: 1,149 ✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:

    PorscheFan wrote:


    I can only assume that this is a very individual topic, and people get relatively individual results.



    Personally I'm an average golfer and I play blades. The only time I haven't been happy with them is when I'm not playing well in general, or when I start to believe there are clubs out there that I would get better results from, or score better with.



    I have no pride in playing blades. Nobody cares. I think two people have commented on it in an entire year. I'd switch tomorrow if I could get better results.



    Larger sweet spots, better MOI etc. makes complete sense to me, yet I've invested in multiple cavity back sets and countless individual heads in an attempt to find clubs that will give me better results. To date I haven't found anything that improves my game or saves my wilder strikes. My bad ones are so bad they cannot be saved.



    My guess is if you're very precise and your misses are by a mil or two that there's a meaningful difference in result on those 'bad' strikes vs. what a blade would give? I can see that's entirely possible.



    All I know is it's a confounding topic. I think marketing has helped to create the more extreme differences in perception.


    What blades are you currently playing and where do you start with them in the bag?




    MP33s, PW thru 6i



    I swapped out my 5i this season for an MP18 MMC and I've gained distance on that club (and therefore tweaked other lofts), but as best I can see I'm not getting better performance. I'm going to play a few rounds with my MP33 5i and maybe 4i to give myself a better perspective on what I've lost or gained.



    I played in a friendly scramble yesterday, and I'm still getting over a hand injury, but the only two complete duffs I had were with non-blades:



    > MMC 5 iron into a long par 3... Hit it so far toe that it went maybe 130 yards straight and then died in the hazard

    > Demo JPX 900F into a 150 yd par 3. I don't hook my irons, but I hooked this so far left that I almost missed the left side trap
  • GautamaGautama Advanced Members Posts: 747 ✭✭
    I think it's almost entirely a mental thing. If you believe your irons have certain specific traits that work for you then they will. If you look down and believe they work against you they will. In a game that's 99% "half mental," that's hugely important.



    This was a cool video from Crossfield on the matter a while back. Not crazy about him but think he's absolutely right. (And before you cry "yeah, but but but he's a pro!" he addresses that numerous times.) Food for thought



    It's nearly all in one's head I think, and since that's where the game is played, heck yeah it matters
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

    -Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom
  • chisagchisag Advanced Members Posts: 2,893 ✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.




    ... A friend of mine coaches a high school golf team. His #1 player uses forged CB's and his #5 player uses MB's. His #3 and 4 use GI and SGI irons. His #5 player loves WRX and thinks MB's will help him play better golf. My friend never even heard of WRX and talked him into playing a round with #1's CB's. He shot his best round by 2 strokes, his personal best. His response was he can do the same with MB's and the CB's will stop his progress because they will cause him to get sloppy. My friend had no idea what he was talking about as he watched the entire round and saw zero difference in his swing or game, other than his misses turned out better. My friend tells me his #5 should be his #2 because he has the 2nd best swing and second best all around game, but he insists on playing MB's and it is clear to everyone on the team that MB's hurt his game and his score.
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  • jppatton2jppatton2 Advanced Members Posts: 96
    I’m currently playing a set of used MBs I bought on here mostly because I wanted to try the shafts. I had my previous irons for 8 years and also just wanted to change and the difference in buying new shafts and used sticks was close enough to make the switch.



    All of that to say, I love playing MBs because of the way they look and when you hit it pure I think it genuinely feels better. However, when I miss a shot out on the toe it is much more noticeable and def impacts my game, but not necessarily my score. Just depends on the day. How is my short game? How is my putting? I don’t hit it any closer with MBs, but my misses are further away from the hole. I plan to get new irons sometime next year and it will probably be some type of combo set up.



    It’s been said already, but how you feel at address looking down at the club is number 1 in my opinion. I don’t like looking at larger cavity backs when I am about to hit. On the flip side, my brother is a 16 HC and dreads looking down at my 5 iron if he is trying to hit it.
  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Advanced Members Posts: 1,149 ✭✭
    Gautama wrote:


    I think it's almost entirely a mental thing. If you believe your irons have certain specific traits that work for you then they will. If you look down and believe they work against you they will. In a game that's 99% "half mental," that's hugely important.



    This was a cool video from Crossfield on the matter a while back. Not crazy about him but think he's absolutely right. (And before you cry "yeah, but but but he's a pro!" he addresses that numerous times.) Food for thought



    It's nearly all in one's head I think, and since that's where the game is played, heck yeah it matters




    I think there’s something to that, but in the case of any ‘friendlier’ clubs I’ve experimented with both my hope and my expectation were that I would get results at least similar to what I do with my own clubs.



    I’d never fork out a single dollar on something that I wasn’t either hoping or expecting to produce results.
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Advanced Members Posts: 4,994 ✭✭
    Crossfield makes some very good points,


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭


    Crossfield makes some very good points,




    Mark Crossfield has exactly one "point" to make. He says buy whatever clubs you like because it doesn't matter you're going to suck no matter what clubs you use. Which is a perfectly true "point".



    The question is why the world needs him to drop dozens of videos every year describing new clubs when he's already said 100x before that what clubs you use doesn't matter.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • chch3chch3 Advanced Members Posts: 807 ✭✭
    The correlation between a person's scores and their ball striking ability, is not always true.
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    Yeah, there's lots of guys who stripe it like a mini-Tour player but chip and putt their way to a 15 HCP. Wait, no there aren't.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • chch3chch3 Advanced Members Posts: 807 ✭✭


    Yeah, there's lots of guys who stripe it like a mini-Tour player but chip and putt their way to a 15 HCP. Wait, no there aren't.




    Saying that only a certain handicap should play certain clubs is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. When I got down to a single digit handicap a few years ago, it was because of short game lessons I took. I dropped almost 7 points on my handicap because of that. So saying that a person who is a 15 shouldn't play blades because they are a 15 is dumb.
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  • BiggErnBiggErn Advanced Members Posts: 2,003 ✭✭
    chch3 wrote:


    Yeah, there's lots of guys who stripe it like a mini-Tour player but chip and putt their way to a 15 HCP. Wait, no there aren't.




    Saying that only a certain handicap should play certain clubs is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. When I got down to a single digit handicap a few years ago, it was because of short game lessons I took. I dropped almost 7 points on my handicap because of that. So saying that a person who is a 15 shouldn't play blades because they are a 15 is dumb.






    It would only be dumb if they rarely hit a perfectly struck shot. I’ve never met a person that had tour level ball striking skills with irons but had had 15+ HC skills with the driver and short game.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff The GOAT Advanced Members Posts: 27,959 ✭✭
    chch3 wrote:



    Yeah, there's lots of guys who stripe it like a mini-Tour player but chip and putt their way to a 15 HCP. Wait, no there aren't.




    Saying that only a certain handicap should play certain clubs is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. When I got down to a single digit handicap a few years ago, it was because of short game lessons I took. I dropped almost 7 points on my handicap because of that. So saying that a person who is a 15 shouldn't play blades because they are a 15 is dumb.




    I'm fine with avoiding generalizations, and i'm also fine with players of any ability playing what they want. As i posted earlier i doubt blades vs SGI clubs for players of any handicap level would cost the player more than MAYBE 2 strokes on their index. And that's at the highest. There's just not much difference in the 7-PW and if you are playing the correct tees you shouldn't be hitting ten 5 irons every round. And handicap is an average of your best 10/20 scores too....



    But the great ballstriking 15 index is one of the great internet tall tales. They just don't exist. They would have to have the short game of someone playing their first round of golf ever. To shoot 87 in your 10 best rounds out of 20 while hitting 10+ greens and keeping balls in play for the most part, you'd have to be trying to miss at some point
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  • TexasCarlosTexasCarlos Unregistered Posts: 861
    If you suck with a Ping G MAX, you'll suck with MB's too. Handicaps come in all shapes and sizes, usually the difference between a 14 and a 6 cap is putting and chipping, looking at all the bogey golf guys out there. Short game will save you no matter what iron you want.
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  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018


    If you suck with a Ping G MAX, you'll suck with MB's too. Handicaps come in all shapes and sizes, usually the difference between a 14 and a 6 cap is putting and chipping, looking at all the bogey golf guys out there. Short game will save you no matter what iron you want.




    No way. Simply no way that is the case. So you dropped 7+ points off your index solely by improving your putts per round and your up/down %? No way.

    The difference between 14 index and a 6 index is GIRs.



    Whatever clubs get those increased GIRs, who cares, but that's where the consistent lower scores are.
  • pallagrinpallagrin Advanced Members Posts: 121
    Play what you want to play is my philosophy. It's hard to comment on these posts because I can see it from other member's perspective if someone were to say "I hit X blade vs. Y CB almost the same". Personally, I tend to gravitate towards looks and feel in my choice of irons. Woods, I pick based on performance and numbers. Wedges? Not really my strong suit but getting better! (Don't worry, my major focus these days are my wedges and putter)
  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Advanced Members Posts: 1,889
    So glad I started playing in the early 70’s. When did this blade vs GI **** start? I had no idea this was going on until I joined WRX. All my years nobody ever questioned someones preference for clubs. Play what you want. Of course everyone wanted pro line clubs but the only barrier was money. And if someone was lucky enough to have a set everyone admired them. Nobody ever said, “hey, you’re not good enough for those clubs”. What the heck has golf become?
  • North ButteNorth Butte Advanced Members Posts: 9,755 ✭✭
    It’s purely an artifact of anonymous online forums. Nobody in the real world cares what kind of clubs some other guy uses. But on a forum DEDICATED to buying and comparing and discussing golf clubs that’s the kind of thing that gets talked about.
    Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.
  • GautamaGautama Advanced Members Posts: 747 ✭✭
    Funny, you read this stuff and you'd think the ball won't even advance with a blade unless it's in the hands of a Ben Hogan on his A game. That's simply isn't the case, like at a all. The difference is tiny really. Seems to me if you like what's in your bag, play em and and don't be swayed by anyone's else's misguided ideas... because TRUSTING your clubs, on the other hand, is huge.



    Which I guess is why people argue with such silly fervor over this nonsense. Maybe they just don't want to let doubt creep into whatever good thing they've got going. And that's probably smart, but there's no actual debate or discussion being had, just a lot of everyone convincing and reassuring themselves they're playing the right thing.
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

    -Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom
  • Aviador NavalAviador Naval equus mortuus non caedis Advanced Members Posts: 1,101 ✭✭
    Gautama wrote:


    Funny, you read this stuff and you'd think the ball won't even advance with a blade unless it's in the hands of a Ben Hogan on his A game. That's simply isn't the case, like at a all. The difference is tiny really. Seems to me if you like what's in your bag, play em and and don't be swayed by anyone's else's misguided ideas... because TRUSTING your clubs, on the other hand, is huge.




    Amen.



    And not only that, the very little bit of difference that does exist is not a prescription for all issues. I'm a high launch kind of guy. I'm happy to admit its at best a swing idiosyncrasy and at worst a pure swing flaw. Regardless, until I run out of sufficient swingspeed at about 25 degrees or so, the very last thing I need are the attributes in a typical GI/SGI club. They would actually make the game harder since at its core the offset, big sole, and perimeter weighting are primarily to help get the ball airborne.



    On the other hand, I've played with some scratch guys that use SGI clubs. They had no trouble controlling trajectory or distance.



    Play what you like to look at and what gives you confidence.
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  • chch3chch3 Advanced Members Posts: 807 ✭✭
    When I was growing up pretty much everyone played hand me down blades. I learned to play on a set of Top Flights Dynertials from the 70's. I guess that is why I have never been afraid to play blades.
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  • Jacked_LoftJacked_Loft Steps Ahead Advanced Members Posts: 486
    edited September 2018
    If you believe the number on your scorecard is the test of your ability, then you also know that golf is a game of dealing with those mistakes that you WILL make during a round.



    That said, the iron head should be choosen which matches your ability to reduce YOUR number of mistakes to YOUR manageable level .



    If your goal is "fairways & greens" I would be looking at GI equipment.



    If your goal is "be aggressive and go low" I'd be using irons which I could move the ball with.



    However the deciding factor will always be your short game, which will allow you to deal with the mistakes which you will make. If my short game is sharp and I've been practicing it, I'll put my blades in play. If not I'll stick to my P770's.
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  • mahoniemahonie Advanced Members Posts: 2,366
    edited September 2018
    duffer987 wrote:



    If you suck with a Ping G MAX, you'll suck with MB's too. Handicaps come in all shapes and sizes, usually the difference between a 14 and a 6 cap is putting and chipping, looking at all the bogey golf guys out there. Short game will save you no matter what iron you want.




    No way. Simply no way that is the case. So you dropped 7+ points off your index solely by improving your putts per round and your up/down %? No way.

    The difference between 14 index and a 6 index is GIRs.



    Whatever clubs get those increased GIRs, who cares, but that's where the consistent lower scores are.




    D, I played a scratch match the other week. Being off 10 I was expecting a drubbing tbh and it was all over after 15. I looked to see what the differences were between our games. He was a bit longer off the tee, but I was a bit straighter. GIR? I hit 6/15, he hit 5/15. I got up and down 2/7, he got up and down 7/10! His combination of chipping and putting was so much better than mine and was the difference on the day. He told me he spends 80% of his practice time working on 50 yards in. I spend about the same, but my practice amounts to about one range session a month...he was spending 3 hours 3 times a week. We didn’t ask handicaps until towards the end of the round. I guessed he was about a 4 or 5 (he was off 5) and he thought I was 6 or 7 but with a very poor short game. I actually shot pretty close to my handicap...he was 2+ and it was all down to his short game.



    Edit - forgot to mention he was playing Ping i25s and played every shot, even driver, with left hand below right (right-hander)!
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Advanced Members Posts: 5,443 ✭✭
    Gautama wrote:
    Funny, you read this stuff and you'd think the ball won't even advance with a blade unless it's in the hands of a Ben Hogan on his A game. That's simply isn't the case, like at a all. The difference is tiny really. Seems to me if you like what's in your bag, play em and and don't be swayed by anyone's else's misguided ideas... because TRUSTING your clubs, on the other hand, is huge.



    Which I guess is why people argue with such silly fervor over this nonsense. Maybe they just don't want to let doubt creep into whatever good thing they've got going. And that's probably smart, but there's no actual debate or discussion being had, just a lot of everyone convincing and reassuring themselves they're playing the right thing.




    That makes a lot of sense to me.



    And to be sure trusting my clubs is huge. A close second is wanting to like them. If they are too ugly I don’t even give them half a chance.
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  • BearQBearQ Break 2 Rebuild Advanced Members Posts: 3,077 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Properly fitted shaft + bit of tungsten help in the long irons. Blades should be no difference to your play, if anything you may get better from more practice to consistently lavish in the sweet sensation of a blade strike.



    Blending in a cb or udi style club at the 3-5 iron spot is the best play for most.
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  • TexasCarlosTexasCarlos Unregistered Posts: 861
    duffer987 wrote:



    If you suck with a Ping G MAX, you'll suck with MB's too. Handicaps come in all shapes and sizes, usually the difference between a 14 and a 6 cap is putting and chipping, looking at all the bogey golf guys out there. Short game will save you no matter what iron you want.




    No way. Simply no way that is the case. So you dropped 7+ points off your index solely by improving your putts per round and your up/down %? No way.

    The difference between 14 index and a 6 index is GIRs.



    Whatever clubs get those increased GIRs, who cares, but that's where the consistent lower scores are.




    GIR is probably the biggest factor you’re right, but’s its no crazy to think that if you get up and down 6 times that your HC will drop if this is done consistently? If ppl don’t have the time to hit full shots, at least putting and short game can shave off a few
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Advanced Members Posts: 24,264 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    duffer987 wrote:



    If you suck with a Ping G MAX, you'll suck with MB's too. Handicaps come in all shapes and sizes, usually the difference between a 14 and a 6 cap is putting and chipping, looking at all the bogey golf guys out there. Short game will save you no matter what iron you want.




    No way. Simply no way that is the case. So you dropped 7+ points off your index solely by improving your putts per round and your up/down %? No way.

    The difference between 14 index and a 6 index is GIRs.



    Whatever clubs get those increased GIRs, who cares, but that's where the consistent lower scores are.




    Have to disagree man.





    Won’t say a 15. But as I’ve said many times I started really playing this game in 2014. I’d shoot high 80s with some sprinkled in 77-79s. Kept my stats then. I hit 6-9 greens most rounds. And 3 putted regularly. But more importantly averaged 2 ob drives a round.



    Today my low round is 65. Perfect day. With a lot of 72-74. But. I’ve shot 77-84 9 times this summer in comp while hitting 12 or more greens. I’ve improved tons all over. But still if I’m not getting up and down will shoot 8-12 handicap scores. Shortgame ( wedges) is solid. But it’s alwsys putter. You can hit 14 greens and 3 putt 7 times and be s***. I’ve done it too many times. Severa guys on this board have played with me. Seen it I person.



    In the last 3 months I belive this putting issue is under control. So a non issue now. But just saying the idea that putting comes automatic to a good ballstriker isn’t true. Look at Rory. look at jason Duffner. It’s all relative. But how many 68s do they turn into 74 ? A ton. Blow that up on the scale and you have a guy turning 72 into 80 in the am world.
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    Ping i500 pre-production proto 3 iron Graphite Design AD DI 105X
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  • anthanth From the Land Down Under Advanced Members Posts: 2,740 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    Yes but you’re nowhere near a mid handicapper with those scores, and that’s exactly Jeff’s point.



    A 15 capper on a bad day is throwing up close to 100.



    So a legitimate 15 capper has more issues than short game and putting going on
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  • duffer987duffer987 Don't feed the Choo. Canadian in CaliforniaAdvanced Members Posts: 8,893 ✭✭
    edited September 2018
    TC & BH - I don't disagree with either of you that putting and chipping can help someone for particular rounds or particular stretches of play, but you don't make a fundamental and long-lasting improvement in your game/index (such as going from 14 to 6) without improving your ballstriking and increasing your GIR.



    I'll have to google/search here, but there is absolutely a direct correlation between the two.
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