Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Blades and the search for "game improvement"

1246710

Comments

  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Members Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    gbartko wrote:



    Great post OP and welcome aboard!



    Yes you have struck the overly sensitive nerve of the GI/Fitting Mafia. They believe the only thing that matters is a score and anyone that plays the game for the challenge and the joy of shotmaking with REAL clubs is a moron. Do the right thing, get fitted with something that can help you and cut 2-3 strokes off your score, they say. Yippee! Now that’s something to be proud of.




    lol - “real clubs”. Playing the game for the “challenge” - lol






    The “real clubs” comment was just a jab to have fun. I don’t care what people play. I would never poke fun at non blade club users. It’s just not me. Whatever makes you happy.



    No matter what side you are on you can’t deny the power of feel, good or bad, with blades. But not all blades feel the same either. So it’s just a matter of preference.



    I am not a gambler, do not play golf competivly, do not play enough to manage an index, do not have the time to even get to where I was 20 years ago. I gave up on the tour at 19, 11 years too late but never said I was a genius. But I do still get a thrill when I pure a shot. I get the same feeling I had at 16 when I was convinced I had finally figured it out. That is what it’s all about for many of us. Scores have no meaning in that sense.

    Because even if I could get back down to mid high eighties, what am I going to do with those scores? I have no passion to achieve hacker plus status again. We are all different. Nothing wrong with that.







  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    Some seriously polarising opinions here on this one!



    As the OP, there's clearly no right or wrong approach - personally I just get more enjoyment out of trying to master a technique than focusing on getting a higher score. In many ways this can be detrimental to a good score as I often play a risky shot that is really out of my reach skill wise just to see if I can pull it off!



    I often take a driver when playing an iron is almost certainly the better scoring play because I enjoy a bit of jeopardy, because in the moment the thrill of pulling it off outweighs the possible detriment to my score. Obviously at the end of the round I look back and think "what the **** was I thinking!"!!



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.



    But then I don't currently compete so as I said before that comes with different criteria for scoring.



    Although with the handicap system if you achieve your handicap with unforgiving clubs and then compete with the same clubs what actual difference have your GI clubs actually made?!



    The same thing applies in many sports and we are all susceptible to upgrade-itis. I also enjoy cycling and have been through a similar situation with my bikes - I would get a new carbon wonder bike, go out and cycle 0.5mph faster for my route and get back and think - "was it worth it? I'm no fitter, I'm no faster - where's the satisfaction?"



    As I said before I'm not criticising anybody for their equipment choices, just highlighting that there are obviously 2 different approaches to the game.



    Another thing to consider:



    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.




    Forget about 'most forgiving' or however you want to categorize different irons, are you saying is that if you found a set of irons that worked really well for you and you saw improved accuracy you would be unsatisfied with that?

    What if you found you average 1 more birdie per round (or however you want to quantify improved iron play) with Wilson FG Tour v6s or C300s vs FG Tour 100s? You're saying you wouldn't want that? Or you just think it's something like a D300 that would make it unsatisfying?



    That is mental. There will be clubs that fit golfers better than others that help them mitigate their bad swings, but bad swings still happen, because you are still swinging the clubs.

    If you hit 5 greens a round with club A and 7 greens a round with club B, I'd see that as a ringing endorsement and not a bad thing.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,875 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    duffer987 wrote:



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.




    Forget about 'most forgiving' or however you want to categorize different irons, are you saying is that if you found a set of irons that worked really well for you and you saw improved accuracy you would be unsatisfied with that?

    What if you found you average 1 more birdie per round (or however you want to quantify improved iron play) with Wilson FG Tour v6s or C300s vs FG Tour 100s? You're saying you wouldn't want that? Or you just think it's something like a D300 that would make it unsatisfying?



    That is mental. There will be clubs that fit golfers better than others that help them mitigate their bad swings, but bad swings still happen, because you are still swinging the clubs.

    If you hit 5 greens a round with club A and 7 greens a round with club B, I'd see that as a ringing endorsement and not a bad thing.






    absolutely... and thats the rub... I continuously find the opposite.. But i just found out im RH Negative , so likely a descendant of the people of Atlantis.... and they are known as a dodgy backwards bunch..





    seriously though.. If i ever find that iron that omits more greens hit closer to the pin ill buy 3 sets....
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  4-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  50  54 60 s400
    Spider X Tour Armlock.  42 inch with jumbo max 17 inch  grip.   


  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Members Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Some seriously polarising opinions here on this one!



    As the OP, there's clearly no right or wrong approach - personally I just get more enjoyment out of trying to master a technique than focusing on getting a higher score. In many ways this can be detrimental to a good score as I often play a risky shot that is really out of my reach skill wise just to see if I can pull it off!



    I often take a driver when playing an iron is almost certainly the better scoring play because I enjoy a bit of jeopardy, because in the moment the thrill of pulling it off outweighs the possible detriment to my score. Obviously at the end of the round I look back and think "what the **** was I thinking!"!!



    Same thing for me with playing more forgiving clubs. If I went and bought the most forgiving, easy to hit clubs on the market and saw a noticeable improvement in my ball striking or accuracy (something that hasn't happened for me yet) it would just leave me unsatisfied.



    But then I don't currently compete so as I said before that comes with different criteria for scoring.



    Although with the handicap system if you achieve your handicap with unforgiving clubs and then compete with the same clubs what actual difference have your GI clubs actually made?!



    The same thing applies in many sports and we are all susceptible to upgrade-itis. I also enjoy cycling and have been through a similar situation with my bikes - I would get a new carbon wonder bike, go out and cycle 0.5mph faster for my route and get back and think - "was it worth it? I'm no fitter, I'm no faster - where's the satisfaction?"



    As I said before I'm not criticising anybody for their equipment choices, just highlighting that there are obviously 2 different approaches to the game.



    Another thing to consider:



    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?






    Responding to your last paragraph. To be fair there is a payoff to playing blades when struck well. So to suggest blade users love the challenge of defeating torture is misleading. We play blades because they give us the best response possible, when struck clean.



    As far as your dream club. Well of course I would play that club, just as I use titanium drivers. But this is more if we all owned a basement full of gold, what would be the value? Totally different argument than the GI vs Blade one. My opinion anyway.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove albertaClubWRX Posts: 1,761 ClubWRX
    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #98

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20’s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don’t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20’s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don’t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.




    Stop compensating and practice image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #100


    If I brought out a new legally conforming driver that NEVER sliced or hooked the ball and that guaranteed 300 yard drives for a SS anything over 100mph would you go and buy it? It would lower your score for certain but would you get any satisfaction from using it?




    I might buy it but unfortunately I can’t muster anything near 100mph. You think I could get maybe 250 at 90mph?



    The hook/slice thing doesn’t matter. My big miss is a dead straight lefty block 40 yards into the left woods!
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.







  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.




    The question being discussed isn’t whether to buy clubs or not. The question is why spend 700 quid on a shiny set of tiny-headed ‘blades” when for the same money you could get big, ugly clubs that let you hit two more greens per round.
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • theothertwotheothertwo Members Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Do "game improvement" clubs actually improve your game?



    I ask this as I feel that there are 2 ways to approach golf and indeed any other sporting or competitive activity.



    1. Aiming to get the lowest score possible

    2. Aiming to be as good as possible



    The 2 are obviously not mutually exclusive. For me the second option is the goal and the first option is simply a way of measuring the second.



    If we are not playing in a competition then where does the need for game improvement clubs come in? If your average score comes down by 4 strokes by playing cavity backed GI clubs then what have you achieved?



    This is the crux of my point - are we not all better off playing unforgiving blades and small headed drivers that do not pander to our inconsistencies?



    If we make a bad swing and the club compensates for this allowing us to hit the green then we lose the incentive - the requirement - to perfect that swing.



    This is analogous to upgrading equipment in many other forms of sport. For me the challenge and joy of golf and all other sports I play is mastering the technique and the less forgiving the equipment the more I am driven to do so and the more joy there is in nailing that perfect shot.




    I completely get this and just recently tried it. For me, there is an age factor and since I'm 60 and not practicing as much, my switch to blades was not beneficial. The good shots with the blades were excellent and addicting but there were too many misses.



    It's a great idea and I wish you all the best, blades are pure joy if you can master them, which eventually will make you swing better IMO.
    Honma TW 737 455 10.5* Driver
    Tour Edge Exotics EX 10 16.5* 4 Wood
    Tour Edge Exotics EX 10 22* Hybrid
    Miura CB 57 Irons  4-PW 
    Miura 2018 Tour Wedges 52* and 58*
    Ping Anser 2 Vault Platinum Putter
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16


    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?




    People seem to be taking this quite personally, I've no problems with anyone or any clubs they choose to play so why are people getting worked up about this?



    I don't think the first world problems term is applicable here as I am not complaining about anything, just expressing myself and how I like to approach things.



    And as regards whether I would rather spend £700 on a "shiny set of tiny-headed ‘blades” " or "big, ugly clubs that let you hit two more greens per round" - yes I would choose the shiny headed blades because for me they are desirable, challenging and beautiful and to me that has more value than hitting 2 more greens per round. And I would always looks at eh big ugly clubs and think - "Ewww - those clubs are ugly, I wish I'd bought the **** blades"!
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #106


    In the words of the great Eddy Merckx (cycling reference)



    "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"



    And if spending £700 on a new set of irons would gain me 2 extra greens a round - no I wouldn't be interested.



    Genuinely it seems there are 2 sides to this and both sides are equally perplexed by the other.


    Has nothing to do with going out and spending loads of money on clubs.



    TBH generally speaking no 'side' is perplexed by the other. Everyone know where everyone stands, some simply disagree with various arguments being offered up.

    It is only for the purpose of having a simple dividing line for a debate there even are 'sides' as such, because there are many more than two: but on the course we're all just golfers.



    As you're the one talking about purchasing clubs. No one here has ever made a money/purchase argument because that is a completely different discussion.

    It's about choice and you've said you would rather play blades and hit 29% fewer greens per round, than if you played a small cavity back iron, that at address absolutely looks the part for what someone would want in a players iron.



    So here's a question for folks: Would you accept hitting 29% fewer GIRs so you could play the Wilson FG100 instead of the Wilson FG Tour V6? image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • chisagchisag Members Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    No matter what side you are on you can't deny the power of feel, good or bad, with blades. But not all blades feel the same either. So it's just a matter of preference.



    I am not a gambler, do not play golf competivly, do not play enough to manage an index, do not have the time to even get to where I was 20 years ago. I gave up on the tour at 19, 11 years too late but never said I was a genius. But I do still get a thrill when I pure a shot. I get the same feeling I had at 16 when I was convinced I had finally figured it out. That is what it's all about for many of us. Scores have no meaning in that sense.

    Because even if I could get back down to mid high eighties, what am I going to do with those scores? I have no passion to achieve hacker plus status again. We are all different. Nothing wrong with that.






    ... I usually stay out of these silly threads but that is one of the best responses I have read. MB's do not make you a better ball striker unless you lack discipline. For me at least, they don't feel any better hit absolutely dead center the my P790's hit dead center. A little more dense? Sure, but they both feel like nothing when pured. But obviously that is just personal opinion as someone that played at least 10 different sets of MB's before switching to forged CB's. Ymmv.



    ... But to the crux of your post, playing any club because you enjoy playing it and consider scoring secondary or even inconsequential certainly makes sense. I am the opposite and want to at a minimum shoot my age by 66, and I am 65 now. I am looking to play in some super senior tournaments next year as I love the competition. And most competitors want to shoot their lowest score. So playing the clubs that give me the best chance of shooting my lowest score will always be in my bag. And the day that becomes SGI shovels, I will happily play them even if they look like a Croc On A Stick.
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Tensei Orange 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F8 18.5* ... Even Flow Blue 75s
    Tailor-made RBZ Tour  21.5 hybrid ... Matrix Altus 85s
    TaylorMade UDi 18* TP 2 iron... Kuro Kage Black 90hy
    4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • BMCBMC Members Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Given both in good condition, I would rather drive a 1967 Corvette versus a 2017 Corvette...despite the 2017 being faster.



    I don't make a living playing golf, so I play what I enjoy. It's recreation.
    Titleist 917D2
    Callaway Rogue 4-wood
    Callaway 2018 MB irons
    Callaway MD4 wedges
    NIKE Method Mod 60 putter
  • QuintupleBogeyQuintupleBogey Members Posts: 16
    BMC wrote:


    Given both in good condition, I would rather drive a 1967 Corvette versus a 2017 Corvette...despite the 2017 being faster.



    I don't make a living playing golf, so I play what I enjoy. It's recreation.






    Perfect analogy. The 1967 Corvette would be less forgiving and more rewarding (and way cooler) - it would demand that you perfected your driving skill to get the best out of and it would punish you if you were cack-handed or heavy footed.



    As for 29% less GIR to play the FG100.... those are some lovely clubs, I'll take those and just practice more to hopefully mitigate the 29% losses!
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,875 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    I wish I had played so much golf and gotten so good at it that I needed to use bad clubs just to keep it from being too easy and boring. Talk about your first-world problems?




    Multiple factions on either major side here I think.



    I don’t subscribe to what you’re saying at all. By that I mean I am not playing a small iron because a large one bores me.

    I just don’t get any benefit to playing newer bigger irons so far. Wider dispersion and higher scores. Why ? Same reason you scored higher with the opposite. The club doesn’t fit me or so im told.



    At least that what’s I was told when my putting miraculously changed over night when I started using a mallet with a big line. Was told “ you just found the putter that fits you. “. So the opposite has to be true of someone who scores better with a smaller iron. Right ?
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  4-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  50  54 60 s400
    Spider X Tour Armlock.  42 inch with jumbo max 17 inch  grip.   


  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USAMembers Posts: 6,604 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20’s I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don’t be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.






    The clubs matter to me too, but opposite how they matter to you. I can't play G20's, as posted earlier. I dropped my hdcp 7-9 strokes after switching to blades. I dropped my hdcp 3 strokes by playing persimmons for three months. I played Eye2+ for a year, didnt change my scores. I'm testing Pinhawk SL irons, so far they havent changed much, other than letting me hit a club with a "4" on the sole where I'd been hitting a club with "2" on the sole (same loft).



    What I play works for me. That's as far as I go with it. I'm not sacrificing score, or anything, in my choice of clubs. It might work for others, it might not work for others. It is what it is.
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Adams Fast 12 LS 9.5* set to 10.5*, Xcaliber T6+, TS, 44.25", D6
    3w:  Bridgestone J's Professional Weapon 14*, stock stiff, 42.5", D5
    1i:  Golden Ram Vibration Matched, DGS400
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    GW:  Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
    SW:  Scratch 8620 58*, DGS400
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar/ZStar XV, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    I've proven once again that anything over 44.5" or even 44.25" is a horrible fit for my tee game
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove albertaClubWRX Posts: 1,761 ClubWRX


    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?




    The entire set, 14 Clubs. And not one day, about ten different days over a period of a year. Mostly nine holes at a time, but a couple times I played full rounds.



    The clubs make a huge difference. Are you actually claiming that anyone will shot the same scores whether the clubs are antiques or modern?
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove albertaClubWRX Posts: 1,761 ClubWRX




    MtlJeff wrote:


    Clubs are both overrated and underrated.



    They are not significant enough that being a good player is dependent on the clubs you play. I'd venture a guess that clubs you play could affect your handicap by at most 2 shots. At MOST



    that being said if it affects your index even by .3, well I'd rather be lower than higher
    at the end of the day its only a guess. There is no way to say how a golfer on any given day would play a round any better or worse with different golf clubs than what he or she played the round with. And that goes for both sides of the argument.




    I have owned a set of true blades, with matching persimmons. Built in 1952. My scores for nine holes were approximately 10 strokes worse with this clubs than the Ping G20's I was using at the time. At least a stroke per hole.



    So don't be daft. The clubs matter.



    I could play clubs like that every round for a year and never break 90 from the ladies tees.
    Is that 10 strokes with the persimmons in play or just the iron swap?



    My point is that the day you were a stroke per hole worse, was it the clubs or were you having a bad day? How do you know how much it would have been different... is there not a possibility that you would have had a bad day with the G20's in play... or is that impossible?




    The entire set, 14 Clubs. And not one day, about ten different days over a period of a year. Mostly nine holes at a time, but a couple times I played full rounds.



    The clubs make a huge difference. Are you actually claiming that anyone will shot the same scores whether the clubs are antiques or modern?
    no, i am just saying that there are more variables than just equipment. There is going to be a difference however i just find it hard to believe that anyone can place it entirely on equipment. Maybe you can from your experience based on the 10 rounds you have played over that period of time however my point is still this... it is impossible to say i would have played ___ shots better or worse that round from last week if i played different equipment. You may be able to identify trends over a period of time but none will ever be able to equate that to a single round guarantee. Also the initial debate here is with irons vs irons... your situation is amplified because of the entire set swap, even still that amplified number is actually undetermined over a single round.

    I went out and played a round with a full demo set of oversized irons and more forgiving woods than normal... i shot a round of 86. From the same tees as normal. Now some would say that was a bad round for playing with shovels... i say i just had a bad day, didn't drive it well, hit less than half GIR's and around 36 putts. now how am i supposed to say i would have done either better or worse than my own full set... i can't. Thats my point.


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
  • cliffhangercliffhanger spruce grove albertaClubWRX Posts: 1,761 ClubWRX
    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.


    Driver: TM M6 (10.5 deg) with Project X Smoke 60X playing at 45 inches
    3Wood: TM M6 (14 deg) with Project X Smoke 70X playing at 43 inches
    2 iron: TM 790 UDI bent to 19 degrees with Project X HZRDUS 85 X (6.5) at 39.5 inches
    4-GW: TM P760 with KBS Tour X (all bent 2 deg flat) standard length
    Wedges: TM Hi-Toe 56/10 and 60/10 (all bent 2 deg flat) with 2.0 hi-rev shafts both standard lengths
    TM Mullen 2 TP putter @ 34 inches 
    TM TP 5 ball 

     All grips 360 tour velvet burgundy with 1 extra wrap

    Sun mountain 4.5 stand bag

  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.
  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 17, 2018 #118
    I can only assume that this is a very individual topic, and people get relatively individual results.



    Personally I'm an average golfer and I play blades. The only time I haven't been happy with them is when I'm not playing well in general, or when I start to believe there are clubs out there that I would get better results from, or score better with.



    I have no pride in playing blades. Nobody cares. I think two people have commented on it in an entire year. I'd switch tomorrow if I could get better results.



    Larger sweet spots, better MOI etc. makes complete sense to me, yet I've invested in multiple cavity back sets and countless individual heads in an attempt to find clubs that will give me better results. To date I haven't found anything that improves my game or saves my wilder strikes. My bad ones are so bad they cannot be saved.



    My guess is if you're very precise and your misses are by a mil or two that there's a meaningful difference in result on those 'bad' strikes vs. what a blade would give? I can see that's entirely possible.



    All I know is it's a confounding topic. I think marketing has helped to create the more extreme differences in perception.
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 17, 2018 #119
    PorscheFan wrote:


    I can only assume that this is a very individual topic, and people get relatively individual results.



    Personally I'm an average golfer and I play blades. The only time I haven't been happy with them is when I'm not playing well in general, or when I start to believe there are clubs out there that I would get better results from, or score better with.



    I have no pride in playing blades. Nobody cares. I think two people have commented on it in an entire year. I'd switch tomorrow if I could get better results.



    Larger sweet spots, better MOI etc. makes complete sense to me, yet I've invested in multiple cavity back sets and countless individual heads in an attempt to find clubs that will give me better results. To date I haven't found anything that improves my game or saves my wilder strikes. My bad ones are so bad they cannot be saved.



    My guess is if you're very precise and your misses are by a mil or two that there's a meaningful difference in result on those 'bad' strikes vs. what a blade would give? I can see that's entirely possible.



    All I know is it's a confounding topic. I think marketing has helped to create the more extreme differences in perception.


    What blades are you currently playing and where do you start with them in the bag?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,875 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    BiggErn wrote:


    It’s all relative. Unless you hit the pea size sweet spot of a blade like 99.9% of the time there’s absolutely no benefit in playing them. I guess there’s an argument that “I” shoot 95 more consistently with blades and around 100 with a cavity back so they just work for me kinda thing going on too that fuels the debate somehow.
    lol i don't think there is anyone on here saying they shoot 95 with blades compared to 100 with cavity backs man. there really isn't an argument here... your results differ fro mine, and my results differ from the next guy. I have been golfing for over 25 years and i am playing my first set of blades. Recently i have found that i am struggling with them as i have not been able to commit to practicing. i know that in order to commit to playing blades i have to practice a couple times a week or more in between playing. i may be one of the guys that are a "one and done" with trying blades. I can say that as a 7.6 i am as low as i have been in years... now there is an argument that i could be better with CB's but the unknown is by how much or if any at all. I will never know, just like if i go to CB's tomorrow and if i get to say a 5, that i wouldn't have gotten there without them. Who knows. All i know is that there should be a buyer beware tag on the better players irons regardless of CB or MB. They are not for everyone thats for sure. I can appreciate the opinions of everyone on the site, as long as everyone understands that they are just that... opinions. The only thing i can say for a fact is how all of this applies to me, beyond that its just my opinion.






    When someone wants something they will use any means and excuse necessary to attempt to justify it. Rationality doesn’t apply to everyone. The fact is if you don’t hit the ball like previously stated there is ZERO benefit in playing them. You can say that you can’t stand to look at a certain club or some turf interaction nonsense or whatever and that’s fine. I guess it’s acceptable some have mental issues, ego issues, and/or denial issues and that’s ok. It’s just a game. Some are good, some are great, some are terrible, and some are in between. When it comes to Golf ignorance is abound.




    thats a heap of absolutes in a mostly grey game my friend... If we use those logics as laws then no player over a 0-2 cap should play any putter that resembles an Anser etc ..But many many do and they do it ridicule free. Point is the handicap test doesnt really work ...



    I wish i had taken pics of these..But i once owned a set of mizuno MP33 that i bought sight unseen .. The toe of these irons was worn to nothing..a tight quarter size spot on each toe ...Now this person had a very repeatable strike , obviously ...but played this toe miss...was it swing or lie angle issues ? i dont know...But im guessing he/she knew how far each iron went on pure toe strikes ( lol) and how far if they missed. Thats all it boils down to...knowing your game and playing the right club for the shot at hand . with some sets it will have a 7 on the sole..with some a 9... thats all.
    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  4-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  50  54 60 s400
    Spider X Tour Armlock.  42 inch with jumbo max 17 inch  grip.   


Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file