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Blades and the search for "game improvement"

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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    Cwebb wrote:





    Also, I am self-taught. For that reason, back then a relative on tour advised me if ball-striking was important to me switch to blades. His words, "blades will help me find the proper swing plane, and I believe that was true then... not so much today, as blade design has changed.






    That's a new one that I hadn't heard of image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />




    Using older style butterknife blades with dime sweet spot and COG closer to heal, try hitting the ball with a swing that's off-plane and see what happens. image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beach:' />




    Punishing a bad swing is NOT the same thing as "help[ing] me find the proper swing plane". Nobody disputes that a butter knife blade will instantly and severely punish anything other than a good swing. That's not the stupid part. The stupid part is that the very act of punishing bad swings is magically teach you how to swing better. It's some kind of cockeyed Darwinian reasoning or something.




    Actually the sad aspect is the person that can't figure out the problem from a bad swing, learn from his mistakes and progress downward to 2-3.




    Well I guess I could just pay someone to follow me around for 18 holes saying "You suck and you ought to be practicing instead of playing". Kind of like Caesar having a slave whispering "remember, you too will die" in his ear.
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    Cwebb wrote:





    Also, I am self-taught. For that reason, back then a relative on tour advised me if ball-striking was important to me switch to blades. His words, "blades will help me find the proper swing plane, and I believe that was true then... not so much today, as blade design has changed.






    That's a new one that I hadn't heard of image/dntknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dntknw:' />




    Using older style butterknife blades with dime sweet spot and COG closer to heal, try hitting the ball with a swing that's off-plane and see what happens. image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beach:' />




    Punishing a bad swing is NOT the same thing as "help[ing] me find the proper swing plane". Nobody disputes that a butter knife blade will instantly and severely punish anything other than a good swing. That's not the stupid part. The stupid part is that the very act of punishing bad swings is magically teach you how to swing better. It's some kind of cockeyed Darwinian reasoning or something.




    Actually the sad aspect is the person that can't figure out the problem from a bad swing, learn from his mistakes and progress downward to 2-3.




    Kinesthetics is the technical term for what you describe...from someone who was also self-taught. The greater the level of sensory perception a person experiences, the better the body’s ability to absorb the feeling through repetition and develop it into a skill. Sub-consciously, once the body finds the sweetspot it sets about trying to find it again. Find it enough times and the motion the body makes to find it is ‘locked in’ and the skill is fixed. Pretty much describes the process your relative described.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers Posts: 15,924 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 18, 2018 #184
    mahonie wrote:


    Kinesthetics is the technical term for what you describe...from someone who was also self-taught. The greater the level of sensory perception a person experiences, the better the body’s ability to absorb the feeling through repetition and develop it into a skill. Sub-consciously, once the body finds the sweetspot it sets about trying to find it again. Find it enough times and the motion the body makes to find it is ‘locked in’ and the skill is fixed. Pretty much describes the process your relative described.




    Thank you. I am clinically educated and touched upon the learning styles subject (generally seven but others) in another thread elsewhere. Layman terms mine are visual, physical (kinesthetic) and solitary. Depending on which authority you quote, the latter and social are relatively new. Have a good day image/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beach:' />
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    • Titleist TS2 9.5, PX HZRDUS Red 65
    • Titleist 917D2 15*, PX HZRDUS Red 75
    • Titleist 716T-MB 17* 2 iron, Steelfiber i95cw "S"
    • Titleist 716CB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i95cw "S"
    • SM6 F-52*, Steelfiber i110cw "S"
    • SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    • SC California Monterey
    • ProV1





  • DinosaurDinosaur Members Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Gautama wrote:


    I think it's almost entirely a mental thing. If you believe your irons have certain specific traits that work for you then they will. If you look down and believe they work against you they will. In a game that's 99% "half mental," that's hugely important.



    This was a cool video from Crossfield on the matter a while back. Not crazy about him but think he's absolutely right. (And before you cry "yeah, but but but he's a pro!" he addresses that numerous times.) Food for thought https://youtu.be/IjqaOBaqdKU



    It's nearly all in one's head I think, and since that's where the game is played, heck yeah it matters




    Yes, I've seen his videos on the subject. I recently purchased a used Muscle Back on ebay (Titleist 695MB and I can honestly say that for me there is not one significant difference between it and the Tour Edge (EXi). ( I hit all of them equally as bad). One reason I bought the MB was I just liked its looks at address having started out with blades and persimmon years ago. The smaller head size seems to suit me. Even in drivers, I do not like any of the 460 cc's and my Titleist is 440 (I think). Certainly, I have my share of mis-hits complete with the stinging sensation in my fingers (maybe a good thing). Anyway, like the commercial says "Its YOUR thing, do what you want with it" (paraphrased).
    "Non rinunciare mai quello
    che desideri...."
    Go with what you know!
  • playaplaya Members Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Very legitimate and interesting question, yet I predict another locked thread.


    Glad you didn't say original
  • tigercolt77tigercolt77 Acworth, GeorgiaMembers Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Personally if given the choice of a beautiful swing and precise ball striking or a serviceable swing and consistently better scores I'd rather shoot better scores. The point of golf is in fact to shoot the lowest score.
    Epic Flash Sub Zero Accra TZ6
    Callaway Rogue 4W Kiyoshi Purple 75
    TM M3 21 Hybrid Diamana Thump 90
    Ping i210 4-PW KBS $ Taper
    Vokey SM7 Slate Blue 50f,54f,58m s400 onyx
    Lajosi DD201 flow neck
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 3, 2019 10:12pm #188
    It’s almost as if we all learn differently. I got good at tennis, but I didn’t learn on wooden racquets. I sure did beat a whole lot of people

    Who did though. That said, I also lost to a whole lot of people who learned to play with wood. So it didn’t seem to matter at all. What matters is your skill.



    My experience with golf is that bad players will hide behind “being good but shooting bad”, but that’s just my experience. To quote bill parcells “we are what our record says we are.” You are what your scores say you are, IMO. Another wise source, Mobb Deep, probably has the best take - there ain't no such thing as a halfway crook.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Ping g30 driver, various shafts
    Adams tight lies 3 wood
    rest is up for debate
  • JAMH03JAMH03 Members Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "1. Aiming to get the lowest score possible

    2. Aiming to be as good as possible" ???






    Here fixed it for you.



    2. Aiming to be as good as possible

    1. Aiming to get the record the lowest score possible then repeat.





    Try not 2 be this guy

     



  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Based upon my entirely anecdotal perceptions, I tend to believe that we make too much of forgiveness in irons. That isn’t to say I ignore it entirely. I just think that in most cases the amount of attention paid to things is out of line given the real-world effects.



    When we’re talking blade versus hybrid, the difference can be dramatic not only in feel but in the results as well. But if we’re comparing an MB to a CB and we say the CB is more forgiving, well, that’s definitely not the same thing! In that case, the differences (at least in the results) will be pretty negligible.



    The standard approach to increasing forgiveness involves increasing MOI which is usually done by simply making the object bigger. However, if we exclude hybrids, we come to realization that irons can’t be made very large, even in the extreme. And when you talk about low-handicappers and what they want, you’re even more restricted in size.



    After having tried a slew of different MBs and “players” CBs, I believe the difference that forgiveness brings lies mostly in perception through the hands. Will that affect confidence? Will that effect future swings? Eh...maybe, but that probably depends on the player. I think anyone who's practicing a lot with the intention of understanding their misses will be fine with whatever they choose.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:
    Based upon my entirely anecdotal perceptions, I tend to believe that we make too much of forgiveness in irons. That isn’t to say I ignore it entirely. I just think that in most cases the amount of attention paid to things is out of line given the real-world effects.



    When we’re talking blade versus hybrid, the difference can be dramatic not only in feel but in the results as well. But if we’re comparing an MB to a CB and we say the CB is more forgiving, well, that’s definitely not the same thing! In that case, the differences (at least in the results) will be pretty negligible.



    The standard approach to increasing forgiveness involves increasing MOI which is usually done by simply making the object bigger. However, if we exclude hybrids, we come to realization that irons can’t be made very large, even in the extreme. And when you talk about low-handicappers and what they want, you’re even more restricted in size.



    After having tried a slew of different MBs and “players” CBs, I believe the difference that forgiveness brings lies mostly in perception through the hands. Will that affect confidence? Will that effect future swings? Eh...maybe, but that probably depends on the player. I think anyone who's practicing a lot with the intention of understanding their misses will be fine with whatever they choose.




    One thing you learn on WRX is some people can talk themselves into believing anything they want to believe. You mean a CB iron and hybrid are different? No way!
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:

    MelloYello wrote:
    Based upon my entirely anecdotal perceptions, I tend to believe that we make too much of forgiveness in irons. That isn’t to say I ignore it entirely. I just think that in most cases the amount of attention paid to things is out of line given the real-world effects.



    When we’re talking blade versus hybrid, the difference can be dramatic not only in feel but in the results as well. But if we’re comparing an MB to a CB and we say the CB is more forgiving, well, that’s definitely not the same thing! In that case, the differences (at least in the results) will be pretty negligible.



    The standard approach to increasing forgiveness involves increasing MOI which is usually done by simply making the object bigger. However, if we exclude hybrids, we come to realization that irons can’t be made very large, even in the extreme. And when you talk about low-handicappers and what they want, you’re even more restricted in size.



    After having tried a slew of different MBs and “players” CBs, I believe the difference that forgiveness brings lies mostly in perception through the hands. Will that affect confidence? Will that effect future swings? Eh...maybe, but that probably depends on the player. I think anyone who's practicing a lot with the intention of understanding their misses will be fine with whatever they choose.




    One thing you learn on WRX is some people can talk themselves into believing anything they want to believe. You mean a CB iron and hybrid are different? No way!




    Hybrid Iron set with Injected TwistFace, Turbulators and SmartSoles 6-LW (Note: LW is 45* and 6 is 22*).



    *slam dunks a basketball to Rock you Like a Hurricane*
    Ping g30 driver, various shafts
    Adams tight lies 3 wood
    rest is up for debate
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/10-potential-problems-with-your-golf-equipment



    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.



    The thing I find hilarious is the 6-15 handicap guy that needs blades to work the ball, control trajectory, etc. Cause you miss like half the greens right (probably more)? Sure, play what you want / like, but let's not pretend you have Spieth or Stenson's iron game.



    More seriously, mental block and familiarity are probably the biggest things that stop most people from changing. I.e. a) they don't give the new/different clubs (in either direction) a real shot and b) they over estimate how well they played with whatever they want to use. For example, I used to play a forged CB when my swing was worse. At this point, I can't even hit a Ping i200 very well, as I am used to the looks/offset of a G series iron. I don't value the feel of the i200, and don't want to take a month+ to get used to something new, so I believe the G series is what I need.
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    agolf1 wrote:


    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.




    It's funny. I'm much more cynical. I tend to doubt the big companies that make money selling equipment. I tend to think their claims are dubious if not downright baseless. We each have our own experiences and our own opinions but if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.



    When I read that kind of "no one but a Tour player" BS I just roll my eyes because it comes off as pure marketing. I'm sorry, but that's just so incredibly stupid. It's no secret. They wan't to sell people on "forgiveness" in irons the same way every year's new drivers are "longer" and "more forgiving" than the year before. All they want to do is drum up enthusiasm (or lust) for something new and the easiest way to do that is not actually by proving they have something better (which would be dubious) or by promising it'll make you better (which it won't).



    You know the easiest way to make people buy something?



    Just tell them that they should be ashamed of what they have. Just tell them that what they have is behind the times, that it's not working or that they aren't good enough to use it. It's hilarious that we get so excited about new equipment only to completely forget how that equipment made us feel as soon as there's something else out there to crave.



    You know what that is, my friend? That's psychology. That's marketing.



    Truth is, I could bag a 975 driver this weekend and shoot the same kind of scores I did last weekend with a far more modern driver. Why? Because 10-12 years ago that's exactly what I was using and no, my score has not really changed as a function of equipment upgrades. I score my best when I'm swinging my best and it's really that simple.



    In 10 years of playing golf I'd say that score is 95% skill and 5% equipment, if that. In reality, it's probably 99% skill, 1% equipment.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:

    agolf1 wrote:


    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.




    Truth is, I could bag a 975 driver this weekend and shoot the same kind of scores I did last weekend with a far more modern driver. Why? Because 10-12 years ago that's exactly what I was using and no, my score has not really changed as a function of equipment upgrades. I score my best when I'm swinging my best and it's really that simple.



    In 10 years of playing golf I'd say that score is 95% skill and 5% equipment, if that. In reality, it's probably 99% skill, 1% equipment.




    Whew, glad we finally settled THAT !!! image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    nsxguy wrote:


    Whew, glad we finally settled THAT !!! image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />




    Haha, I know.



    I'm not saying we should't spend all our time in equipment forums on the internet. I'm just sayin'...
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • mahoniemahonie EnglandMembers Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    agolf1 wrote:


    https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/10-potential-problems-with-your-golf-equipment



    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.



    The thing I find hilarious is the 6-15 handicap guy that needs blades to work the ball, control trajectory, etc. Cause you miss like half the greens right (probably more)? Sure, play what you want / like, but let's not pretend you have Spieth or Stenson's iron game.



    More seriously, mental block and familiarity are probably the biggest things that stop most people from changing. I.e. a) they don't give the new/different clubs (in either direction) a real shot and b) they over estimate how well they played with whatever they want to use. For example, I used to play a forged CB when my swing was worse. At this point, I can't even hit a Ping i200 very well, as I am used to the looks/offset of a G series iron. I don't value the feel of the i200, and don't want to take a month+ to get used to something new, so I believe the G series is what I need.




    The statement you quoted is the exact reason that I take absolutely no notice of what journalists write in golf magazines and haven’t read one in the last 20 years. What they write is all about the ‘story’ and very rarely based in fact, typically it is their personal opinion. You could say the same about journalists writing car reviews, smart phone reviews or any other published article. What they write should have no bearing on a individual’s personal experience as they haven’t got a clue what that is. It is all part of the marketing machine and the key is recognising it and not getting drawn in like the vast majority of sheep out there.
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Fubuki ZT Stiff
    MD Golf Superstrong 3-wood UST Proforce 65 Stiff
    Wilson Staff FG Tour M3 21* Hybrid Aldila RIP Stiff
    Mizuno MP4 4-PW DG S300
    Wilson Staff PMP wedges 50/54/58 KBS Hi-Rev 2.0
    Radius Classic 8
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:

    agolf1 wrote:


    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.




    It's funny. I'm much more cynical. I tend to doubt the big companies that make money selling equipment. I tend to think their claims are dubious if not downright baseless. We each have our own experiences and our own opinions but if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.



    When I read that kind of "no one but a Tour player" BS I just roll my eyes because it comes off as pure marketing. I'm sorry, but that's just so incredibly stupid. It's no secret. They wan't to sell people on "forgiveness" in irons the same way every year's new drivers are "longer" and "more forgiving" than the year before. All they want to do is drum up enthusiasm (or lust) for something new and the easiest way to do that is not actually by proving they have something better (which would be dubious) or by promising it'll make you better (which it won't).



    You know the easiest way to make people buy something?



    Just tell them that they should be ashamed of what they have. Just tell them that what they have is behind the times, that it's not working or that they aren't good enough to use it. It's hilarious that we get so excited about new equipment only to completely forget how that equipment made us feel as soon as there's something else out there to crave.



    You know what that is, my friend? That's psychology. That's marketing.



    Truth is, I could bag a 975 driver this weekend and shoot the same kind of scores I did last weekend with a far more modern driver. Why? Because 10-12 years ago that's exactly what I was using and no, my score has not really changed as a function of equipment upgrades. I score my best when I'm swinging my best and it's really that simple.



    In 10 years of playing golf I'd say that score is 95% skill and 5% equipment, if that. In reality, it's probably 99% skill, 1% equipment.


    Your statement is extreme as the one you are criticizing. If you look at what I hit, I'm obviously not hung up on the latest and greatest each year. Do I think there are marginal improvements in drivers (in the last 9 years), yes. Drastic changes, no.



    Why don't you game the 975 then? I played with a 983E this past weekend, and if you catch it perfect it goes just as far as anything else. But hit it out on the toe and I'm in the left trees. Even if your swing/strike is very good, I'd still saying your giving up something (if not, I wonder why Tiger isn't still playing his) vs. the modern heads.



    Also, I suppose a lot of pros are playing different 3 or 4 irons just for fun. Not because they are easier to hit. In fact, you have a T-MB but I'm sure it does nothing different than your MBs?



    Lastly, yes get an upgrade every now and then because it's fun. But you seem just as hung up on the "driver buzz" that you bash, and the forgiveness of a D2 vs a D3. But again, no change vs a 975, right?



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1734506-perceived-forgiveness-of-ts2-vs-ts3/page__p__18611962__hl__+perceived +forgiveness#entry18611962
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    mahonie wrote:

    agolf1 wrote:


    https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/10-potential-problems-with-your-golf-equipment



    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.



    The thing I find hilarious is the 6-15 handicap guy that needs blades to work the ball, control trajectory, etc. Cause you miss like half the greens right (probably more)? Sure, play what you want / like, but let's not pretend you have Spieth or Stenson's iron game.



    More seriously, mental block and familiarity are probably the biggest things that stop most people from changing. I.e. a) they don't give the new/different clubs (in either direction) a real shot and b) they over estimate how well they played with whatever they want to use. For example, I used to play a forged CB when my swing was worse. At this point, I can't even hit a Ping i200 very well, as I am used to the looks/offset of a G series iron. I don't value the feel of the i200, and don't want to take a month+ to get used to something new, so I believe the G series is what I need.




    The statement you quoted is the exact reason that I take absolutely no notice of what journalists write in golf magazines and haven’t read one in the last 20 years. What they write is all about the ‘story’ and very rarely based in fact, typically it is their personal opinion. You could say the same about journalists writing car reviews, smart phone reviews or any other published article. What they write should have no bearing on a individual’s personal experience as they haven’t got a clue what that is. It is all part of the marketing machine and the key is recognising it and not getting drawn in like the vast majority of sheep out there.


    No doubt journalists write in a way that attracts attention (both negative and positive). But it's not any more personal experience or belief than an internet forum. Just read all the raving reviews here only to see the guy switched clubs after 3 months (yes, skill is most important).



    Most golfers play equipment that is not well suited to their abilities. Everyone remembers the perfect shots they hit by fail to realize the true frequency with which they occur.
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    agolf1 wrote:

    mahonie wrote:

    agolf1 wrote:


    https://www.golfdige...-golf-equipment



    Muscleback irons undoubtedly have a beautiful aesthetic, and they offer more workability for a ball's shape and trajectory. But unless you're playing on the PGA Tour, blades are not for you. If you're struggling with iron play, it's time to head to a more forgiving club design. Even high single-digit handicappers could benefit from using a game-improvement iron. Losing the blades may take a shot at your ego, yet it will also lower your scores.



    Generally, I think the above statement is true, although the requirement of playing on the PGA Tour is probably a stretch though. My guess is that if you are 5 index or less your swing is probably good enough to play blades.



    The thing I find hilarious is the 6-15 handicap guy that needs blades to work the ball, control trajectory, etc. Cause you miss like half the greens right (probably more)? Sure, play what you want / like, but let's not pretend you have Spieth or Stenson's iron game.



    More seriously, mental block and familiarity are probably the biggest things that stop most people from changing. I.e. a) they don't give the new/different clubs (in either direction) a real shot and b) they over estimate how well they played with whatever they want to use. For example, I used to play a forged CB when my swing was worse. At this point, I can't even hit a Ping i200 very well, as I am used to the looks/offset of a G series iron. I don't value the feel of the i200, and don't want to take a month+ to get used to something new, so I believe the G series is what I need.




    The statement you quoted is the exact reason that I take absolutely no notice of what journalists write in golf magazines and haven't read one in the last 20 years. What they write is all about the 'story' and very rarely based in fact, typically it is their personal opinion. You could say the same about journalists writing car reviews, smart phone reviews or any other published article. What they write should have no bearing on a individual's personal experience as they haven't got a clue what that is. It is all part of the marketing machine and the key is recognising it and not getting drawn in like the vast majority of sheep out there.


    No doubt journalists write in a way that attracts attention (both negative and positive). But it's not any more personal experience or belief than an internet forum. Just read all the raving reviews here only to see the guy switched clubs after 3 months (yes, skill is most important).



    Most golfers play equipment that is not well suited to their abilities. Everyone remembers the perfect shots they hit by fail to realize the true frequency with which they occur.




    So you're saying that the consumer actually bears some responsibility for his/her choices ? image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



    I think so too. image/cool.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(cool)' />
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • GautamaGautama Members Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:




    ...if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.






    100% agree with this and have been saying it for years...where is the objective robot data? Would be so easy to do...but the truth is, at the end of the day in the physics of moving plane strikes stationary sphere, the relative weight distribution on said plane (clubhead) is pretty insignificant when compared to path and face angle. The difference in scoring from one et to the next is all but negligible in my experience. Yes, maybe a few strokes a year on those "almost" shots as someone else described it, but that's about it. Liking your clubs though, trusting them, is HUGE and why it actually does matter what you play. Just not for the reasons they want us to believe.
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

    -Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Gautama wrote:

    MelloYello wrote:




    ...if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.






    100% agree with this and have been saying it for years...where is the objective robot data? Would be so easy to do...but the truth is, at the end of the day in the physics of moving plane strikes stationary sphere, the relative weight distribution on said plane (clubhead) is pretty insignificant when compared to path and face angle. The difference in scoring from one et to the next is all but negligible in my experience. Yes, maybe a few strokes a year on those "almost" shots as someone else described it, but that's about it. Liking your clubs though, trusting them, is HUGE and why it actually does matter what you play. Just not for the reasons they want us to believe.




    John-Daly.jpg
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 10:05pm #203
    If you have the time and dedication to practice all hours your going to have too, to hit them well and consistently for sure play em



    If of mindset you can play casually and vaguely and bcuz they are harder to hit you simply just will hit them good, another thing is coming......



    To get good at anything takes practice and work....



    Just because you dont hit absolute center of face diesnt mean it's a bad swing.....lots of great swings are just off on face of club.......returning that center to specific spot everytime takes lots of practice



    So gi clubs dont cover up horrible swings they cover up good swings that were just off a bit at impact...and most dont have the time or dedication to get good at hitting MB, Thus why GI was invented so avg everyday working people with families could still enjoy the game to a degree...nothing will cover up a horrible swing



    I play both ( not GI but cb) MB and CB and hit them both well but MB is more demanding.....
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 8:30am #204
    Is there skill in choosing your equipment?



    Anyway, I had a driving range contest at my club with some guys last weekend. One (me) had a four iron. The other two had wedges. We were playing horse to little sticks between 20 and 140 yards away. Do it often, but my bag was in my trunk. One of the guys is an 11 and he housed me. Absolutely crushed me. I couldn't keep up with a 20* club against his three wedges on short shots. I'm a better player but I still lost somehow.



    So where is the line? Are you actually suggesting that a 1 cap with a bag of nothing but 4 irons could step on TPC Louisiana and keep up with a 10 cap who has driver, wedge, all the irons, putter, etc... ? Because I can't. So where is the line where the equipment becomes "equal enough" for skill to be 99% of it?



    100% of the time skill is the most important thing 70% of the time.



    Every. Golfer. is. Different. Some can play with anything. Some would have their cap jump five points if the driver shaft they've used for five years gets taken away. Its all relative, and none of you know. None of you can set the line at which the equipment is "good enough" for a player's skill relative to another player will shine through. Why?



    Because golf is played against the course. So stop saying things like "a 5 cap will be better than a 15 cap if...." That isn't how golf works. The 5 plays the course with his skill and his euipment and the 15 does the same. Equipment and skill matters to each in different proportions given their practice, talent, genetics, skill, perspective etc....



    Finally, it is by no means a given that blades will help anyone "find the swing plane". Studies have shown this definitely works... for some people. For others, its actually harmful. If it worked for everyone to learn with blades you'd cut the power steering to your teenagers can when teaching them to drive. After all, if they can drive without power steering, they can certainly drive with power steering helping them find the proper place to turn the wheel.



    Golfers are so different that all these truisms and folksy suggestions (learn on blades!) are nonsense when speaking of a hypothetical golfer.
    Ping g30 driver, various shafts
    Adams tight lies 3 wood
    rest is up for debate
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 11:16am #205
    To be 100% clear I am not advocating for any of the following:



    (1) People only carrying 4-irons.

    (2) People not playing equipment designed after the year 2000.

    (3) Hostility towards OEMs for trying to make money.

    (4) Snobbishness or elitism based on what equipment a person plays.



    I'm also not advocating for:



    (1) The average player obsessing about having the latest driver.

    (2) The average player obsessing about forgiveness in their 7i-Pw.

    (3) And average player trusting blindly what the OEMs say in their ads.





    I don't want to refute straw-man arguments so I just won't make any attempt to. The truth is that we all probably take more or less the same views on equipment:



    --Enjoy it.

    --Buy new stuff when you have disposable cash.

    --Try not to get obsessed with new tech.





    What I advise are really the 2 common-sense ideas I think we all probably support:



    (1) We be reasonable and measured when we discuss the actual impact of equipment and how much it's likely to improve our abilities.



    (2) We remind average players that playing is likely to be of more value than shopping because not only will playing lead to more significant improvements compared with equipment changes but it also has the added benefit that it takes one's mind off of their sticks and puts it in a healthier place.





    FWIW, I love these debates and I think they're healthy.



    In my particular case, I've elected to "upgrade" my bag in almost every spot after being more or less pretty constant going back 5-6 years. After finding a set of irons and a putter last year, both of which I imagine I'll play with for an extended time, I've elected to experiment with a couple T-MB clubs to see if there's any advantage and I've moved from my 913 woods into the "new" M3 models because, well, I can. I'm an avid golfer so every once in awhile it's time to rejuvenate the bag and spend a little money on stuff because that's part of the fun.



    Another big element of it is that for me, it's my 10 year golf annivesary. I've spent the last decade exploring the market and experimenting with all types of heads, shafts, grips, etc. I'm finally at a point where I feel like I know what I want and I have a good job so I'm splurging a little in order to acquire the stuff I feel I want to be with for the next several years.



    But I 100% acknowledge that the hard part is not finding new stuff. That's as easy as typing Ebay.com in my browser! The hard part is getting it right and staying away from Ebay so I don't feel lured into making the same changes next year and the year after. My hope is that I put together a bag that can take me through the next 3 years. If that happens, I'll be happy. At that point I doubt I'll upgrade to different types of clubs but maybe I'll want a new set of wedges or a fresh, clean set of irons.



    Am I swapping clubs because I totally believe it'll make me better? Eh, if I'm honest I'm probably doing just because I can. I don't want to play with the same clubs forever. It's really that simple.



    Expensive white slacks have been en vogue for the past several years on tour. They're everywhere on broadcasts now. Why? Well, it's simple. They look good! White is clean. It's fresh. There's something striking there that's positive. Do white pants make you better? No, of course not! But that's not going to stop people from getting excited about having new, sparkling clean, pressed white pants. It's just another psychological thing. Don't try and make it sound bad. It just is what it is. I understand that pants are a different story and that there's not much of a myth out there suggesting that pants will help you hit more greens but it's just another thing to spend your extra money on.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:
    To be 100% clear I am not advocating for any of the following:



    (1) People only carrying 4-irons

    (2) People not playing equipment designed after the year 2000

    (3) Hostility towards OEMs for trying to make money



    I'm also not advocating for:



    (1) The average player obsessing about having the latest driver

    (2) The average player obsessing about forgiveness in their 7i-Pw

    (3) And average player trusting blindly what the OEMs say in their ads





    I don't want to refute straw-man arguments so I just won't make any attempt to. The truth is that we all probably take more or less the same views on equipment:



    --Enjoy it.

    --Buy new stuff when you have disposable cash

    --Don't get too obsessed with new tech





    What I advise are really the 2 common-sense ideas I think we all probably support:



    (1) We be reasonable and measured when we discuss the actual impact of equipment and how much it's likely to improve our abilities.



    (2) We remind average players that playing is likely to be of more value than shopping because not only will playing lead to more significant improvements compared with equipment changes but it also has the added benefit that it takes one's mind off of their sticks and puts it in a healthier place.







    In my particular case, I've elected to "upgrade" my bag in almost every spot after being more or less pretty constant going back 5-6 years. After finding a set of irons and a putter last year, both of which I imagine I'll play with for an extended time, I've elected to experiment with a couple T-MB clubs to see if there's any advantage and I've moved from my 913 woods into the "new" M3 models because, well, I can. I'm an avid golfer so every once in awhile it's time to rejuvenate the bag and spend a little money on stuff because that's part of the fun.



    But I 100% acknowledge that the hard part is not finding new stuff. The hard part is getting it right and staying away from Ebay so you don't feel compelled to make the same changes next year and the year after. My hope is that I put together a bag that can take me through the next 3 years. If that happens, I'll be happy.



    Am I swapping clubs because I totally believe it'll make me better? Eh, if I'm honest I'm probably doing just because I can. I don't want to play with the same clubs forever. It's really that simple.




    I have my take as well



    (1) Unless you strike virtually EVERY shot dead solid there is no benefit to playing a MB iron.



    (2) Playing and practicing with a MB iron will not make you a better ball striker.



    I love the comments about how “MB’s make me focus more” or “my mishits are better” etc.
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 11:08am #207
    BiggErn wrote:


    (1) Unless you strike virtually EVERY shot dead solid there is no benefit to playing a MB iron.




    I don't know what your views are based on. All I can say is that I've owned MBs, CBs, AP2s, etc and don't really find the size of my iron dictating my overall score to a large degree. If anything, I prefer the look of something smaller behind the ball. If someone else wants something entirely different, I'm cool with that. Seems that some folks see bigger as better while others see bigger and clunkier. Sounds mental to me! image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


    BiggErn wrote:


    (2) Playing and practicing with a MB iron will not make you a better ball striker.



    I love the comments about how “MB’s make me focus more” or “my mishits are better” etc.




    Anyone who tells you to buy a club because it'll make you better is probably misinformed. I'd tell you to do research, experiment and buy what feels right.



    I have no desire to try and sell people on MBs. If you don't like them or think badly of folks who use 'em just have your opinion and let it be.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MelloYello wrote:
    BiggErn wrote:


    (1) Unless you strike virtually EVERY shot dead solid there is no benefit to playing a MB iron.




    I don't know what your views are based on. All I can say is that I've owned MBs, CBs, AP2s, etc and don't really find the size of my iron dictating my overall score to a large degree. If anything, I prefer the look of something smaller behind the ball. If someone else wants something entirely different, I'm cool with that. Seems that some folks see bigger as better while others see bigger and clunkier. Sounds mental to me! image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


    BiggErn wrote:


    (2) Playing and practicing with a MB iron will not make you a better ball striker.



    I love the comments about how “MB’s make me focus more” or “my mishits are better” etc.




    Anyone who tells you to buy a club because it'll make you better is probably misinformed. I'd tell you to do research, experiment and buy what feels right.



    I have no desire to try and sell people on MBs. If you don't like them or think badly of folks who use 'em just have your opinion and let it be.






    Do you mishit a moderate percentage of shots? Do you score around par or better? Just curious. I’m not telling you what to play, play whatever you like. There’s a line where scores aren’t gonna really change no matter what you play but there’s a reason almost 80% of tour players playing something other than a MB. I’m sure there’s a reason a number of “average” golfers play them too.
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Gautama wrote:

    MelloYello wrote:




    ...if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.






    100% agree with this and have been saying it for years...where is the objective robot data? Would be so easy to do...but the truth is, at the end of the day in the physics of moving plane strikes stationary sphere, the relative weight distribution on said plane (clubhead) is pretty insignificant when compared to path and face angle. The difference in scoring from one et to the next is all but negligible in my experience. Yes, maybe a few strokes a year on those "almost" shots as someone else described it, but that's about it. Liking your clubs though, trusting them, is HUGE and why it actually does matter what you play. Just not for the reasons they want us to believe.




    OK, I'm bored. So let me ask you guys a simple question.



    Do you believe there is any distance and/or directional benefit to cavity back irons over blades ? Or is that urban legend ?
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 11:55am #210
    BiggErn wrote:


    Do you mishit a moderate percentage of shots? Do you score around par or better? Just curious. I’m not telling you what to play, play whatever you like. There’s a line where scores aren’t gonna really change no matter what you play but there’s a reason almost 80% of tour players playing something other than a MB. I’m sure there’s a reason a number of “average” golfers play them too.




    I get your point 100% and so I'll answer you honestly with my own experience. You tell me what you'd do.



    My tendencies (in no particular order) are the following:



    (1) The occasional hook that misses the green well left. This seems to be related to my body position and the point from which I'm releasing. It feels very much like a mistake based in mechanics and it's severity is not something I would think a club could absolve me of. I've stood on the range (recently) comparing an MB 6-iron to an AP2 6-iron (both with S300 shafts) and found this miss to occur (randomly) with both. The AP2 did not make this miss "better" in any way (definitely not straighter). If anything, the increased offset of the AP2 tended to increase the draw on each and every shot. So while I was a "neutral" player with the MB who would hit the occasional hook, the AP2 forced me to draw everything and made those occasional hooks all the same. What I was really disappointed by was the limited ability to fade the ball at all with the AP2. While I could always produce a fade on cue with the MB (it doesn't take anything beyond a held-off release), the AP2 seemed kind of biased away from the fade. I had to make exaggerated swings to produce the same slightly left-to-right shot appear.



    (2) I compared the distance of the MB and the AP2 and while I found the AP2 to produce a very slight increase in height, I found both clubs went roughly the same distance--and that remained true on thin strikes which are probably my most common mistake in general. I don't have actual data comparing slight mis-hits between the MB and AP2 6-irons but they appeared to be generally about the same based on where they came down. This is where I expected the AP2 to win out but I couldn't see that in testing.



    (3) If I'm brutally honest, I will occasionally hit a WTF sort of shot way off the toe (usually when I'm "trying something" in my swing on the range or fighting a weird lie on the course). These misses aren't getting better with club selection. We're talking strikes at the very toe-side of the grooves. These are the misses we claim we never have as "good players." In my experience, these can't really be made better other than by dampening the harsh vibration which of course, the AP2 is better at.





    So in my trials comparing an MB and an AP2 (which I've done multiple times on the range and the course) I found I could work the MB both ways more reliably than the AP2 which produced a slight draw pretty much all the time. Still, that "permanent draw" with the AP2 increased my fear that the random hook was going to pop out of nowhere. I really didn't have any "fear" per se with the MB because I always assumed my curve would be minimal.



    I also found the distance differences to be rather negligible which was surprising. I certainly expected more power from the bigger AP2. On the other hand, the AP2 felt very solid and dampened my bad mis-hits so that's a plus for it. And if I played the AP2 I wouldn't have to "explain it" to people. But should peer pressure even be a factor? That's certainly getting way out in left field, isn't it?



    Since then I purchased a complete set of AP2 irons so I could do a further comparison. I haven't completely tested the short irons but I have my doubts that I'll come away thinking the AP2 9-iron is going to make me better. I've hit them and I just don't see much difference. If anything, there is at least a perceived advantage of the smaller MB irons. Most of the time I hit flighted short irons so I really like the MB and the CB designs which provide more feel on those shots.



    Thus, I really came away feeling that it was a personal choice where the AP2 might occasionally hit a shot slightly straighter or slightly higher but where the MB/CB would allow you to hit the occasional touch shot or fade with more precision.



    In the end, I think the club I should've purchased was the CB, but alas, I'm totally happy with the MB and I've added a couple T-MB irons to compensate so I think I'm pretty good all around.



    I'm happy to share more, but please, tell me your thoughts as I totally get the point you're making.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    nsxguy wrote:

    Gautama wrote:

    MelloYello wrote:


    ...if irons are so freakin' forgiving then let them prove it. Let them publish the robot data.






    100% agree with this and have been saying it for years...where is the objective robot data? Would be so easy to do...but the truth is, at the end of the day in the physics of moving plane strikes stationary sphere, the relative weight distribution on said plane (clubhead) is pretty insignificant when compared to path and face angle. The difference in scoring from one et to the next is all but negligible in my experience. Yes, maybe a few strokes a year on those "almost" shots as someone else described it, but that's about it. Liking your clubs though, trusting them, is HUGE and why it actually does matter what you play. Just not for the reasons they want us to believe.




    OK, I'm bored. So let me ask you guys a simple question.



    Do you believe there is any distance and/or directional benefit to cavity back irons over blades ? Or is that urban legend ?




    Distance -- probably not. I've played various types of MB and CB irons and my yardages have remained the same. I can't think of any club that was particularly forgiving.



    I guess I'd give a slight advantage to the CB if we're talking dispersion on *slight* misses. Bad misses with either will be bad shots, end of story (IMHO).



    I'd give a slight advantage to the MB (or the smaller CB) when it comes to workability. I see that mostly as a function of offset. The less offset the less you have to do to overcome it when you don't want it. This seems to be mostly personal preference amongst players.
    Driver: TaylorMade M3 (10.5) w. Tensei Pro Orange
    3w: TaylorMade '07 Burner
    5w: Nike SQ II
    Irons: Titleist 716 CB (4-Pw)
    Wedges: Vokey SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Select

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