Soft Step DG x3, Same a Full Flex?

A.PrinceyA.Princey Major HackerMembers Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
edited Sep 16, 2018 in WRX Club Techs #1
I know the addage about SSx1 is roughly a 1/3 flex softer, but is it really softer even if done more than once? I guess my real question here is, would a DG X100 that is SSx3 be the same as a S300 in that flex(X100 3i butt cut to 6i length = S300 6i)?



I fully understand that these are not exact scenarios and that the soft-step idea is only an aproximation, but is the tip the only real affected stiffness change? Is the the whole entire bend profile going to still be drastically different even if the 'fcm' is very close? Like, could an S300 ever bend like R300 of the same length if the steps were aligned equally from the tip, or are the step patterns different all together making them all together different from the very start??



What actually makes the R, S, and X DG series different from each other, ultimately?
'16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
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  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,469 ✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #2
    A.Princey wrote:


    I know the addage about SSx1 is roughly a 1/3 flex softer, but is it really softer even if done more than once? I guess my real question here is, would a DG X100 that is SSx3 be the same as a S300 in that flex(X100 3i butt cut to 6i length = S300 6i)?



    I fully understand that these are not exact scenarios and that the soft-step idea is only an aproximation, but is the tip the only really affected stiffness change? Is the the whole entire bend profile going to still be drastically different even if the 'fcm' is very close?




    We can make BUTT CPM equal but thats it, so we cant soft step or modify a DG X100 to become like S300

    If we look on step patterns alone, we get a shaft that LOOKS equal at SS4, but now butt CPM is lower than S300, plus we lost the wgt of 2 inch and thats close to 7 grams, so your X100 SS4 is to be considered as 123 grams, and HIGH launch while DGS 300 would still be 130 grams low launch.....different animals
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #3
    So, is soft stepping feel oriented only, or are there actual flex changes happening? If I wanted performance and results closer to R-flex, would ssx3 even be worth it in S300?
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,469 ✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #4
    A.Princey wrote:


    So, is soft stepping feel oriented only, or are there actual flex changes happening? If I wanted performance and results closer to R-flex, would ssx3 even be worth it in S300?




    Flex changes when we soft step a constant wgt shaft, but the DG series is NOT a "multi flex" series, where we can modify one to become the other, we have tons of options with them, but not that option.



    When we Hard step or Soft step, we move both weight, (wall thickness) and profile (tip vs butt length)

    i described that rather detailed in this post.



    http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry17995166



    But just let me add PROFILE.

    Soft stepping moves us against higher launch. 1x not much but 2x is visible and something like MID launch, and 3 x is HIGH

    Hard stepping the oposit, and since we started from LOW, we go even lower when we hard step.



    So attempts to use a stronger flex, soft step it, and KEEP the weight and the profile is NOT possible, we change weight and profile when stepping.

    Soft stepping = Softer, lighter and higher

    Hard stepping = Stronger, more heavy, and lower



    So if the target is R flex, use R flex, and if R is to soft, consider hard stepping R, or Tiger step them (tip trim) if you dont want the added wgt. DGR is 127 grams, and quite heavy in that flex range, so if you want a tad lighter option to DGR hard stepped who gets close to S300, you can use S200 and soft step 2x (who makes them 124 grams instead of DGR HS1 at 128.5), then tiger step them 3 CPM up again who makes them FCM 5.2 or close to DGR HS1 who is 5.1 Then you have 2 options who will play close to the same, but with about 4.5 grams shaft wgt difference
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
    Thanks so much for the information, a lot to wrap my head around. I'm going after a feel and loading sensation, so I'll probably just go the route of R-flex to begin with. The R has been taming my tempo and I don't think soft-stepping dgS300 by any amount now will help with that.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • OpinderOpinder Banned Posts: 422
    No way... What's your speed depends swing golf ??



    Pro tour 90-120 mph.







  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,469 ✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #7
    A.Princey wrote:


    Thanks so much for the information, a lot to wrap my head around. I'm going after a feel and loading sensation, so I'll probably just go the route of R-flex to begin with. The R has been taming my tempo and I don't think soft-stepping dgS300 by any amount now will help with that.




    If a fast tempo is your issue, try added head weight, it dont take much before you notice a improvement.

    When we use shaft wgt to slow down tempo, we need A LOT of shaft weight, and that might move us to high on total, be aware of that. Sometimes a tad lighter shaft (to keep total wgt within reason) and a few grams added on the head is a better solution.



    Let me simplify it with a example using the rules of thumbs for SW values

    If we want to move SW value by 1 point up, we need a shaft with the same balance point, 9 grams UP

    If we want to move SW value by 1 point up using head weight, we need average 2 grams UP

    This 2 clubs will measure to the same SW value, but have 7 grams difference on total wgt, so they want feel or play the same, for some the heavy version is the best, for other the lightest, it all depends on the player himself.



    During transition, its head weight we are "pulling", and shaft wgt who tells us the angle of the club so we know where the head is.

    Both shaft and head weight should "feel right" on top of the swing, if not we want be able to turn the club at the right point (over swing), and if we cant get the resistance needed to navigate, we speed up tempo to get that feedback. Thats where more head wgt comes into it, it adds resistance so you dont need to step on it to load it right. All this is VERY personal, and the shaft profile and flex is part of it for how it feels during the different stages of the swing from take away to impact.
  • OpinderOpinder Banned Posts: 422
    Howard Jones is a right. DG S300 specific right shaft on iron. No modified. Launched lower.



    Try KBS shaft is help your choice.



    I heard pro tour use wedge DG S400 DG X100 is stiff tip on wedge and quickly falling lower spin rpms.



  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,847 ClubWRX
    A.Princey wrote:


    Thanks so much for the information, a lot to wrap my head around. I'm going after a feel and loading sensation, so I'll probably just go the route of R-flex to begin with. The R has been taming my tempo and I don't think soft-stepping dgS300 by any amount now will help with that.




    If you find that you want a Dynamic Gold flex that is between R and S, then an S soft-stepped twice is the one
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:

    A.Princey wrote:


    Thanks so much for the information, a lot to wrap my head around. I'm going after a feel and loading sensation, so I'll probably just go the route of R-flex to begin with. The R has been taming my tempo and I don't think soft-stepping dgS300 by any amount now will help with that.




    If you find that you want a Dynamic Gold flex that is between R and S, then an S soft-stepped twice is the one


    I think the feel will remain relatively no different that S, except the tip will react differently and launch higher. I'm after a loading feel in the entire shaft, and soft stepping isn't going to get me there across the whole shaft profile.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,847 ClubWRX
    A.Princey wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:

    A.Princey wrote:


    Thanks so much for the information, a lot to wrap my head around. I'm going after a feel and loading sensation, so I'll probably just go the route of R-flex to begin with. The R has been taming my tempo and I don't think soft-stepping dgS300 by any amount now will help with that.




    If you find that you want a Dynamic Gold flex that is between R and S, then an S soft-stepped twice is the one


    I think the feel will remain relatively no different that S, except the tip will react differently and launch higher. I'm after a loading feel in the entire shaft, and soft stepping isn't going to get me there across the whole shaft profile.




    Actually it does. Each shaft in Dynamic Gold is progressively softer across the whole profile
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2018 #12
    I've got a set of S300s already and a set of R400s coming to me and I'll do some deflection test and see how they react to a similar load, butt 'fcm' isn't my main goal. From Howard J and several other posters the S300 3i and R300/400 6i will be entirely different animals at the same finished length.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,847 ClubWRX
    A.Princey wrote:


    I've got a set of S300s already and a set of R400s coming to me and I'll do some deflection test and see how they react to a similar load, butt 'fcm' isn't my main goal. From Howard J and several other posters the S300 3i and R300/400 6i will be entirely different animals at the same finished length.




    Right....but if you find you want a Dynamic Gold that is between R and S, your best bet is an S soft-stepped twice.....even though it's not the same as an R hard stepped twice
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,071 ✭✭
    edited Sep 17, 2018 #14
    I get what you mean now. The shaft will play softer between a R and an S, but also one that no longer plays like a true DG profile any longer in the sense of "straight in". Similar yes, but not all together an exact match for what I'm looking for. Not to mention, if I go with the R I can leave the S300s all at standard length and sell them much easier! I can't wait to have that eureka moment with my irons, like I did with my driver build earlier this year.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana LE 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana LE 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
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