Fan Hit by Koepka's Drive - **MERGED TOPICS**

TheGulagTheGulag Members Posts: 164 ✭✭
edited Sep 28, 2018 in Tour Talk #1
Maybe that's why they didn't play him in the afternoon. Was watching the live coverage this morning and I did see someone on a stretcher with medical personnel around when they were putting but nothing was ever said on it.
tatertot wrote:

Bad day ... Like an arm fell off on the range and he decided to tough it out?
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  • MarkFromTheUKMarkFromTheUK Members Posts: 4,639 ✭✭
    She’s going to take Phil’s place in the US Team tomorrow.
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  • third-times-a-charmthird-times-a-charm Members Posts: 1,409 ✭✭
    Why would they bench him for that? Players hit people on the side all the time. Is he going to jail?
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  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 1,499 ✭✭
    linebackers hit pretty hard these days ... hope she's ok ...
  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭


    Why would they bench him for that? Players hit people on the side all the time. Is he going to jail?




    It can mess you up mentally and make some players timid. But not Koepka. He's mentally tough.
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  • jdljdl Masshole MassMembers Posts: 1,669 ✭✭
    edited Sep 28, 2018 #6
    tiderider wrote:


    linebackers hit pretty hard these days ... hope she's ok ...




    NFL has flagged Brooks for roughing the passer.....by.
  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers Posts: 3,015 ✭✭
    edited Sep 28, 2018 #7
    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:


    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



    https://www.telegrap...-brooks-koepka/




    Glad she sounds like she's OK. If she had lost an eye, yes that could definitely mess someone up.
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  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers Posts: 3,015 ✭✭
    Holy Moses wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



    https://www.telegrap...-brooks-koepka/




    Glad she sounds like she's OK. If she had lost an eye, yes that could definitely mess someone up.




    Seriously. Even anywhere near the eye and you'd expect broken bones or a concussion. "Not serious" is actually very surprising.
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,209 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



    [url="https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2018/09/28/ryder-cup-fan-suffers-horrific-eye-injury-struck-brooks-koepka/"]https://www.telegrap...-brooks-koepka/[/url]




    Glad she sounds like she's OK. If she had lost an eye, yes that could definitely mess someone up.




    Seriously. Even anywhere near the eye and you'd expect broken bones or a concussion. "Not serious" is actually very surprising.




    Yes very lucky. We had someone in the office hit with a softball near the eye not even moving that fast, and they were out for over a month and needed surgery



    Damage near the eye is bad.



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  • tbowles411tbowles411 ClubWRX Posts: 25,062 ✭✭
    rawdog wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



    https://www.telegrap...-brooks-koepka/




    Glad she sounds like she's OK. If she had lost an eye, yes that could definitely mess someone up.




    Seriously. Even anywhere near the eye and you'd expect broken bones or a concussion. "Not serious" is actually very surprising.


    I got hit the chest once on the fly. It hurt like a b****! I can't even imagine getting hit anywhere on the face.
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  • Jack PearsallJack Pearsall Members Posts: 3,304 ✭✭
    edited Sep 29, 2018 #12
    Glad the lady is not seriously impaired. It’s pretty scary.



    JP has been hit by a drive, but in the thigh. A head shot, that would be just so **** awful. JP was playing when it occurred. About 150 yards from tee, never had a chance.

    Shot like a forty two or some **** score the next nine that day, just totally

    Could not get back into playing and did not cAre at all about the game. Didn’t care what or if any issues of guilt were felt by the perpetrator. It happens...

    Should have just left...reminded JP a little of his hs baseball days and getting hit by a hot shot pitcher. Some pitchers are sadists, can we agree on that?

    The mind kind of just has no focus except for the initial anger ....you get hit up by the head, you understand the whole charging the mound...question is do you take your bat with you? A big no no of course...



    There is no Team sport that JP ever played really well with anger...except organized ice hockey. Man, played that like it was Iwo Jima every shift. Got hit in face once by a deflected slap shot. Like getting hit by a brick. Down goes Pearsall!!! Blood everywhere. Played right side wing or defense as JP played hockey left handed, like his local sports hero Bobby Orr. Course, he was CLEARLY no No. 4, but you could cut into the middle for great angle shots. What an amazingly fun sport to play. Loved it so much, the speed, grace and power.

    The funnest team sport of all, FACT!

    Kinda went off track here...Koepka, guy looks like a nfl safety! Chiseled.
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  • bmaas03bmaas03 Members Posts: 539 ✭✭
    tbowles411 wrote:

    rawdog wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:

    rawdog wrote:


    "It looked like it hurt," the US star said after his first match. "She was bleeding pretty good. It looked like it hit her right in the eye, so hopefully there's no, you know, loss of vision or anything like that.... it's not a fun feeling. I probably do it way more than I should. It seems just about every week we're hitting somebody, and you know, it's unfortunate. You're never trying to.



    "It doesn't feel good, it really doesn't. You feel terrible for them. You know exactly how they are feeling, especially when you've got to go over there and apologise."



    A Ryder Cup spokesman said: "She was immediately supported by marshals and assessed by the medical team on site.



    "She has been taken to the hospital as a precaution but doctors have confirmed the injury is not serious. The spectator does not have a broken nose, contrary to what some media announced."



    [url="https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2018/09/28/ryder-cup-fan-suffers-horrific-eye-injury-struck-brooks-koepka/"]https://www.telegrap...-brooks-koepka/[/url]




    Glad she sounds like she's OK. If she had lost an eye, yes that could definitely mess someone up.




    Seriously. Even anywhere near the eye and you'd expect broken bones or a concussion. "Not serious" is actually very surprising.


    I got hit the chest once on the fly. It hurt like a b****! I can't even imagine getting hit anywhere on the face.




    About 8 years ago, I got hit on the eyebrow on a tee shot with a driver on the fly while sitting in a cart, with the windshield folded down. The worst part was the first 8 or so seconds, verifying my eye was still intact. Scary stuff. I bled like a stuck pig, needed 2 stitches, and my eye swelled shut for about 3 days, but the pain wasn’t horrible. Mentally, though, I’m a basket case teeing off in shooting-gallery style courses (because I know how much it sucks to get hit) and when I’m standing anywhere remotely close to where a golf ball might land even today.

    The anger of not hearing a “fore”, nor an apology, nor being offered a courtesy beer after the fact probably helped me forget about the pain, to be honest.
  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... location, location.Members Posts: 7,803 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #14
    It's unfortunate she lost sight in her eye, but now she's considering legal action because...of course.



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  • saksittbsaksittb Members Posts: 118
    That's bullxxxx. Spectators assume the risk of being down range on a golf course. It's like standing down a driving range asking to watch from out there. Koepka should not be responsible for that ****.
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,209 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #16
    saksittb wrote:


    That's bullxxxx. Spectators assume the risk of being down range on a golf course. It's like standing down a driving range asking to watch from out there. Koepka should not be responsible for that ****.




    I doubt she would even sue Koepka. Most likely the tournament organizers.



    People cannot sign away or waive basic human rights, it's illegal to even ask someone to do that in many countries (I assume France is one). Her case would just need to be that the tour knowingly put spectators in a position of danger, I believe. I'm not a lawyer but I believe that's what it is



    To be honest I don't necessarily disagree. I've posted many times that golf tournaments allow fans to get too close, and someone would actually die one day



    But legally someone cannot waive their right to an outcome like being hit hard enough to cause blindness. I don't think so in France anyway. Here we have laws like that
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  • MakersMarsh3MakersMarsh3 Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭
    Holy s***
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  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    Was it a line drive off the tee box or bomb down range catching her on the way Down?
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,209 ✭✭
    For reference if anyone is interested, read about the death of Brittany Cecil at an NHL game on Wikipedia



    Led to netting being mandatory in arenas in certain areas, and the NHL did pay her family a settlement over 1M dollars
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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭
    Is the fan going to permanently lose sight in her eye?
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  • Finbarr SaundersFinbarr Saunders Members Posts: 1,008 ✭✭
    Koepka will be more than happy that she will be fully compensated his insurance company on the other hand will try very hard not to pay out
  • drake47drake47 Members Posts: 1,400 ✭✭
    Holy Moses wrote:


    Is the fan going to permanently lose sight in her eye?




    I believe they used the term “explosion of the eyeball” so I would assume permanent loss of vision.



    As far as the legal action, I don’t believe Koepka will be at any legal risk. The injured party will most likely sue the tournament/organizers and they will then settle on some amount.
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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭
    drake47 wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:


    Is the fan going to permanently lose sight in her eye?




    I believe they used the term "explosion of the eyeball" so I would assume permanent loss of vision.



    As far as the legal action, I don't believe Koepka will be at any legal risk. The injured party will most likely sue the tournament/organizers and they will then settle on some amount.




    From The Telegraph: "However they told me I'd lost the sight in my right eye, and this was what was confirmed to me today (Monday)."Her husband said: "In the best case scenario, she may be able to see shapes after the bruising eases in a month or so."



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2018/10/01/ryder-cup-fan-hit-koepka-tee-shot-loses-sight-right-eye/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget
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  • HackerD  HackerD Student of the game Members Posts: 3,143 ✭✭
    Oh God that makes me nauseated, her eyeball exploded? Geez. We were in the gallery around the 18th green at the PGA at Baltusrol and a guy right next to us got hit in the shoulder by a Jason Day approach shot. He said it hurt like a mf.
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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,444 ✭✭


    Was it a line drive off the tee box or bomb down range catching her on the way Down?




    Down range. Said the marshals should have said a ball was incoming.
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,336 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #26
    MtlJeff wrote:

    saksittb wrote:


    That's bullxxxx. Spectators assume the risk of being down range on a golf course. It's like standing down a driving range asking to watch from out there. Koepka should not be responsible for that ****.




    I doubt she would even sue Koepka. Most likely the tournament organizers.



    People cannot sign away or waive basic human rights, it's illegal to even ask someone to do that in many countries (I assume France is one). Her case would just need to be that the tour knowingly put spectators in a position of danger, I believe. I'm not a lawyer but I believe that's what it is



    To be honest I don't necessarily disagree. I've posted many times that golf tournaments allow fans to get too close, and someone would actually die one day



    But legally someone cannot waive their right to an outcome like being hit hard enough to cause blindness. I don't think so in France anyway. Here we have laws like that




    Jeff,



    I'm no lawyer either but what "basic human right" would she have signed away or waived by buying her ticket ?



    Most tickets for a whole variety of events acknowledge that there may be dangerous situations and the ticket holder hold the event harmless in case of injury.



    She's not giving up any rights. She's acknowledging "stuff happens".



    Now "negligence" is another story and if anyone can prove that the event should have and could have reasonably anticipated and prevented the event from happening that is another story.



    I just read up on Brittany and the NHL did settle out of court but probably did so more for public relation issues than fear of losing in court.



    Found this - https://www.law.du.e...5-Augustine.pdf



    Didn't read it all but note the part that says "So where does the law stand on this issue? Consistently in favor of the teams, leagues, and/or event promoters. Courts operate under the premise that spectators assume the risk of

    attending a game/event, and that it should be obvious to the spectator that a baseball, puck, tire,

    or golf ball can hit them."



    Don't mean to sound insensitive and I hope she's alright but "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances".



    The thing that really gets me is when a Pro is punching a low 4 iron under a tree towards the green and there are MORONS lined up on BOTH sides of the line of flight, not 10 feet wide on either side.



    Sooner or later someone's going to mishit that shot and somebody's going to get a 140 MPH "fastball" right between the eyes and they're not going to survive it.

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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,209 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #27
    nsxguy wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:

    saksittb wrote:


    That's bullxxxx. Spectators assume the risk of being down range on a golf course. It's like standing down a driving range asking to watch from out there. Koepka should not be responsible for that ****.




    I doubt she would even sue Koepka. Most likely the tournament organizers.



    People cannot sign away or waive basic human rights, it's illegal to even ask someone to do that in many countries (I assume France is one). Her case would just need to be that the tour knowingly put spectators in a position of danger, I believe. I'm not a lawyer but I believe that's what it is



    To be honest I don't necessarily disagree. I've posted many times that golf tournaments allow fans to get too close, and someone would actually die one day



    But legally someone cannot waive their right to an outcome like being hit hard enough to cause blindness. I don't think so in France anyway. Here we have laws like that




    Jeff,



    I'm no lawyer either but what "basic human right" would she have signed away or waived by buying her ticket ?



    Most tickets for a whole variety of events acknowledge that there may be dangerous situations and the ticket holder hold the event harmless in case of injury.



    She's not giving up any rights. She's acknowledging "stuff happens".



    Now "negligence" is another story and if anyone can prove that the event should have and could have reasonably anticipated and prevented the event from happening that is another story.



    I just read up on Brittany and the NHL did settle out of court but probably did so more for public relation issues than fear of losing in court.



    Found this - [url="https://www.law.du.edu/documents/sports-and-entertainment-law-journal/issues/05/05-Augustine.pdf"]https://www.law.du.edu/documents/sports-and-entertainment-law-journal/issues/05/05-Augustine.pdf[/url]



    Didn't read it all but note the part that says "So where does the law stand on this issue? Consistently in favor of the teams, leagues, and/or event promoters. Courts operate under the premise that spectators assume the risk of

    attending a game/event, and that it should be obvious to the spectator that a baseball, puck, tire,

    or golf ball can hit them."




    Being hit by a ball and getting bruised is one thing though, losing sight (suffering permanent damage) is another. I believe if you can prove in a court that this was a predictable outcome that was neglected you would have a case. As you mention. I think there's a fine line between risk you can assume and permanent damage that you cant be asked to waive



    Like, getting hit by a puck that causes death is not something someone can waive I don't believe, even if the ticket states theres a risk of danger.



    So this one might be a gray area. But I believe she's have a case, and at least get a settlement.



    I may be wrong, I haven't read much on law in a few years
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  • jdljdl Masshole MassMembers Posts: 1,669 ✭✭
    Seems like she has a decent case, IMO. It was set up to be a driveable par 4 and from what I saw, they were allowing the fans to get really close to that green. Not surprising that pros hitting driver in there are going to be less accurate and also less likely to be able to warn people when the shot is off line since they are 300+ yards away. It's not like she was in the grandstands on the 18th hole and someone hit a really bad iron approach.
  • MedicMedic Members Posts: 9,417 ✭✭
    Best guess it's a retinal detachment along with the loss of some of the vitrious that forms up the globe of the eye. Amazingly there are surgeries that are amazing and can have incredible results. What was once the literally loss of an eye has given way to hope. They can use cadaver vitrious, reattach the retina and take corrective action on the lens which was probably also disrupted.



    Just offering up a little hope. This is SUCH a terrible accident. Life changing. Hopefully she is a candidate for some of the treatments now available.



    This sort of thing should really serve as a wake-up call for anyone who even remotely thinks about hitting into others.
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  • RetsdonRetsdon Members Posts: 76
    Standing down range and having people drive golf balls in your direction is hazardous enough. But it almost certainly becomes even more dangerous when the people down range probably don't know what's going on. A shout of 'Fore!' would have anyone who plays the game themselves ducking and covering in an instant, but a Frenchwoman who's flown in from Egypt to watch the spectacle and who in all likelihood has never set foot on a golf course in her life before probably just stood there looking back at the tee wondering what it meant.



    I read in the newspaper today she's claiming that there was no warning and if so,that's unforgivable. But even if there was a warning shout, it's no good if half the spectators don't understand it. Maybe these tournaments that attract masses of 'sports fans', should institute a system whereby someone downrange is charged with letting off an air siren or some similar universal danger signal when shots go off course so everyone knows what's coming down the pike.



    In any event, no matter what disclaimers the organizers might put in the small print. it's not right that people coming to watch a golf tournament should run the risk of being maimed for life or worse. I think this woman has ever right to sue the cr*p out of the organizers. They should have foreseen the danger.
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,336 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:

    nsxguy wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:

    saksittb wrote:


    That's bullxxxx. Spectators assume the risk of being down range on a golf course. It's like standing down a driving range asking to watch from out there. Koepka should not be responsible for that ****.




    I doubt she would even sue Koepka. Most likely the tournament organizers.



    People cannot sign away or waive basic human rights, it's illegal to even ask someone to do that in many countries (I assume France is one). Her case would just need to be that the tour knowingly put spectators in a position of danger, I believe. I'm not a lawyer but I believe that's what it is



    To be honest I don't necessarily disagree. I've posted many times that golf tournaments allow fans to get too close, and someone would actually die one day



    But legally someone cannot waive their right to an outcome like being hit hard enough to cause blindness. I don't think so in France anyway. Here we have laws like that




    Jeff,



    I'm no lawyer either but what "basic human right" would she have signed away or waived by buying her ticket ?



    Most tickets for a whole variety of events acknowledge that there may be dangerous situations and the ticket holder hold the event harmless in case of injury.



    She's not giving up any rights. She's acknowledging "stuff happens".



    Now "negligence" is another story and if anyone can prove that the event should have and could have reasonably anticipated and prevented the event from happening that is another story.



    I just read up on Brittany and the NHL did settle out of court but probably did so more for public relation issues than fear of losing in court.



    Found this - https://www.law.du.e...5-Augustine.pdf



    Didn't read it all but note the part that says "So where does the law stand on this issue? Consistently in favor of the teams, leagues, and/or event promoters. Courts operate under the premise that spectators assume the risk of

    attending a game/event, and that it should be obvious to the spectator that a baseball, puck, tire,

    or golf ball can hit them."




    Being hit by a ball and getting bruised is one thing though, losing sight (suffering permanent damage) is another. I believe if you can prove in a court that this was a predictable outcome that was neglected you would have a case. As you mention. I think there's a fine line between risk you can assume and permanent damage that you cant be asked to waive



    Like, getting hit by a puck that causes death is not something someone can waive I don't believe, even if the ticket states theres a risk of danger.



    So this one might be a gray area. But I believe she's have a case, and at least get a settlement.



    I may be wrong, I haven't read much on law in a few years




    Different countries have different laws of course but if baseball is any sort of barometer for this sort of thing it would appear that if she gets a "settlement" it will be because the event organizer feels it would cost them more in negative publicity than it would to give her some ca$h.



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