Ryder Cup disappointment

jimb6golfjimb6golf Members Posts: 1,507 ✭✭
The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup. The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough. The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well. Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:

* Pick players that really want to be there. Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs.

* Learn to work together, especially on foursomes. Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.

* Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour schedule.



Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.
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Comments

  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,014 ✭✭
    I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.

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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,141 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #3
    dlygrisse wrote:


    I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.




    Makes all the difference.



    Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:



    Tiger

    Phil

    Bubba

    Rickie

    And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.



    Team will be young and hungry overall.
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 4,747 ✭✭
    jimb6golf wrote:


    the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup.




    Without wishing to be overly precise, the PGA Tour doesn't have any strategy to think about going into the Ryder Cup. Beyond observing what is going on (and presumably getting some pretty sweet free tickets) the PGA Tour has nothing to do with the Ryder Cup, it comes down to the PGA of America and that in itself might be part of the problem.
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  • ik ben grootik ben groot Members Posts: 50
    bscinstnct wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.




    Makes all the difference.



    Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:



    Tiger

    Phil

    Bubba

    Rickie

    And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.



    Team will be young and hungry overall.


    Agree. Unfortunately Bubba a Rickie were auto qualifiers. I wouldn't expect Bubba to in two years but who knows. I'm sure Rickie will be on there. Personally I don't think he should be on the team. He's dreadful at match play
  • golfandfishinggolfandfishing Members Posts: 3,403 ✭✭
    While I agree completely and have posted such over the weekend on the bomb and gouge tactic making u.s. tour players inferior golfers - the pga tour is absolutely not going to change the style of play required on their tour to facilitate a once every two years event that they have zero to do with.



    Bomb and gouge with free relief from anything remotely in the way has made these guys exceptional PGA Tour players. It has made them inferior golfers.
  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... location, location.Members Posts: 7,803 ✭✭


    While I agree completely and have posted such over the weekend on the bomb and gouge tactic making u.s. tour players inferior golfers - the pga tour is absolutely not going to change the style of play required on their tour to facilitate a once every two years event that they have zero to do with.



    Bomb and gouge with free relief from anything remotely in the way has made these guys exceptional PGA Tour players. It has made them inferior golfers.




    Stop with the 'inferior golfer' hyperbole. It's just silly. I believe Poulter got relief from a 'French drain' yesterday after he bombed it past DJ.



    It would be nice to have a captain with his pulse on the relationships between the players and who has insight on the course they will be playing. It seemed like neither of those was evident for the US team last week. It would also be good if guys didn't suck.
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  • FergusonFerguson Executive Member VAMembers Posts: 4,464 ✭✭
    The team needs better leadership.



    Jim Furyk was not the guy to coach this team of individuals, in this event, on foreign soil, in 2018.

    And David Duval as a Vice Captain?





    It was lost before the first shot was struck.
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Members Posts: 5,039 ✭✭
    The Ryder Cup was not a disappointment for me.


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  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Members Posts: 1,976 ClubWRX
    I like the idea of selecting those that really want to play. Maybe the captains can pick any 12 from the top 50 in RC points. I bet some only play because they feel obligated. I don’t think talent has much to do with it if they are in the top 50. That would be a good start.
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Members Posts: 5,039 ✭✭
    America needs something like a Task Force !



    It could help by finding a winning formula,


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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,141 ✭✭

    bscinstnct wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.




    Makes all the difference.



    Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:



    Tiger

    Phil

    Bubba

    Rickie

    And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.



    Team will be young and hungry overall.


    Agree. Unfortunately Bubba a Rickie were auto qualifiers. I wouldn't expect Bubba to in two years but who knows. I'm sure Rickie will be on there. Personally I don't think he should be on the team. He's dreadful at match play




    I'm saying,



    No more auto qualifying if you are over 30 and have a losing RC record. Under my system, It's the opposite,



    Auto-disqualifying



    The only way to make the team if you are over 30 is if you have a winning record or it's your first time.



    It's a basic way to screen out people who have done well during the season but have not performed in the RC.





    You get it right. Or, youre terminated ; )



    hqdefault.jpg
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,239 ✭✭


    America needs something like a Task Force !



    It could help by finding a winning formula,






    Lol. That's good stuff right there.



    I think they just need to make more birdies.



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  • BlueIslander80BlueIslander80 Members Posts: 64
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #14
    As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.



    1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.



    2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.



    The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.



    I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.
  • SatchelRuazSatchelRuaz Members Posts: 54 ✭✭
    Luckily, I think Tiger, Phil and Bubba will all fail to qualify in 2020. I love Tiger as a vice captain and captain in moving forward, but he needs to forgo a playing role moving forward. He just isn't a good fit for the format aside from singles where he has a winning record.



    I think having guys that want to be there is going to be crucial. Assuming Charlie Hoffman and Kevin Kisner are close to form they would both be on my team. They loved being a part of the President's Cup team and both spoke extremely highly of the experience. They want to be there.



    Your nucleus for the next several is going to consist of DJ, Brooks, JT, Speith, Fowler and Reed. Fowler has a losing record, but he's a locker room guy and I think he wants to be there. I'd be fine with having him back despite past failures.



    My roster assuming everyone is in form and healthy would be as follows:



    DJ

    Brooks

    JT

    Speith

    Reed

    Fowler

    Hoffman

    Kisner

    Xander

    Snedeker

    Patrick Cantlay

    Kyle Stanley



    Captain: Tiger Woods

    Vice Captains: Davis Love III, Steve Stricker, Matt Kuchar, Freddy Couples and Phil Mickelson
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  • redfirebird08redfirebird08 Members Posts: 7,885 ✭✭
    PGA Tour doesn't have a financial stake in the Ryder Cup. They don't have any control over the event. Why should they care? The bomb and gouge "entertainment factor" has been very profitable for them and will continue to be very profitable for them.
  • SatchelRuazSatchelRuaz Members Posts: 54 ✭✭


    As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.



    1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.



    2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.



    The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.



    I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.




    I agree with your first point in a big way. The Euros want it more than the US and it shows. That's why we need guys that want to be there.



    I also agree with the fact that the PGA Tour is set up for bombs and birdies. However, they aren't going to change so captains picks will be crucial for the US. They'll need to pick guys that hit fairways not additional bombers. While Tony Finau wanted to be there and played well, he wasn't what the US needed. They needed a guy who can hit fairways, not a JV version of Brooks and DJ.



    The Captain going into 2020 needs to realize that maybe the most deserving guy isn't the right guy. The team needs to be formed with the right pieces not the prettiest ones.
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  • Vardon GripVardon Grip Members Posts: 433 ✭✭
    "I hit a little heavy with the Square strike, but not fat at all, you really can't chunk it with the square strike"



    Use that and you can start making room for the Ryder Cup trophy right now.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,657 ✭✭
    Tiger seemed VERY sedated at the presser. Captain? Not for a while yet



    I wasn't disappointed in the Euro's winning (Danish and Brit/Scots bloodlines)



    I was disappointed that it wasn't closer .. .way more exciting.
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  • lazyjc4lazyjc4 Members Posts: 857 ✭✭


    America needs something like a Task Force !



    It could help by finding a winning formula,




    Perhaps a Task Force that's led by those that have actually won more Ryder Cups than they've lost? I know those players are starting to die out, but it seems the like the current Task Force led by Ryder Cup losers didn't really have it all figured out.
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  • Rosco1216Rosco1216 Members Posts: 2,975 ✭✭
    Finau played great and he should have been there. Xander and Kisner of the types of guys you need out there as well just because of their style of play. Phil shouldn't have been a pick and should have been an assistant captain. Tiger should only play best ball and singles.
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  • bigchucksrbigchucksr Members Posts: 307 ✭✭
    For me, as a golf fan and a golfer, the Ryder Cup is unwatchable. Every two years I try like **** to put away the disgust that I have for the open jingoism these matches seem to inspire and am so worn out by the end of the first round that I am left with merely checking scores at the end of the day.

    Even this great course played this year couldn't override my hatred of the behavior of the "fans" and the players.

    Frankly, it will be a great day in European/American relations when Ian Poulter becomes too old or too inept to lift a golf club and he is merely the tip of the iceberg behavior wise.
  • fkim011fkim011 Official Club Whore Irvine, CaliforniaMembers Posts: 749 ✭✭



    As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.



    1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.



    2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.



    The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.



    I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.




    I agree with your first point in a big way. The Euros want it more than the US and it shows. That's why we need guys that want to be there.



    I also agree with the fact that the PGA Tour is set up for bombs and birdies. However, they aren't going to change so captains picks will be crucial for the US. They'll need to pick guys that hit fairways not additional bombers. While Tony Finau wanted to be there and played well, he wasn't what the US needed. They needed a guy who can hit fairways, not a JV version of Brooks and DJ.



    The Captain going into 2020 needs to realize that maybe the most deserving guy isn't the right guy. The team needs to be formed with the right pieces not the prettiest ones.




    Finau is always top 3 in most birdies and eageles on tour. He can put, hit it deep...



    I think the real JV guy was DJ. Guys had the yips with the putter all year. He is the prototypical PGA guy...just bombs it, uses his strength out of the rough...



    Personally think the EURO guys are skilled and grew up playing in more diverse conditions.
  • Lennon MccartneyLennon Mccartney Members Posts: 394 ✭✭
    jimb6golf wrote:


    The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup. The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough. The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well. Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:

    * Pick players that really want to be there. Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs.

    * Learn to work together, especially on foursomes. Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.

    * Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour schedule.



    Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.


    Have you ever considered that maybe the American's just don't really care about a team Exhibition that comes around every two years? Maybe it is that simple? Have you considered that maybe the American's design their schedule, priorities and practice around the Majors? Because golf is an individual sport with individual accolades...i think people are reading a little too deep into this...i find it troubling that the likes of Ian Poulter, Colin Montgomerie, Lee Westwood, Paul Mcginley, Thomas Bjorn, and Sam Torrance need to beat their chest every two years because they lose sight of the fact that they never closed the door in a Major and need to rely on others to do their bidding for them...Did Brooks Keopka, Dustin Johnson or Phil Mickelson look like they gave a **** this week?...the answer is no...because they let their majors do their talking for them...
  • joeyloughjoeylough Members Posts: 94
    Maybe more of the USA team should have played at the French Open and took spring break over in France.



    Nothing like preparing for an event.



    The problem is that the president's cup so far is so in USA favor it doesn't help them with the Ryder cup.
  • RangeballzRangeballz Members Posts: 1,649 ✭✭
    Davis Love III, the PGA of America is on line 1........
  • jdljdl Masshole MassMembers Posts: 1,669 ✭✭
    jimb6golf wrote:




    * Learn to work together, especially on foursomes. Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.






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  • Lancj1Lancj1 Members Posts: 883 ✭✭

    jimb6golf wrote:


    The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup. The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough. The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well. Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:

    * Pick players that really want to be there. Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs.

    * Learn to work together, especially on foursomes. Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.

    * Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour schedule.



    Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.


    Have you ever considered that maybe the American's just don't really care about a team Exhibition that comes around every two years? Maybe it is that simple? Have you considered that maybe the American's design their schedule, priorities and practice around the Majors? Because golf is an individual sport with individual accolades...i think people are reading a little too deep into this...i find it troubling that the likes of Ian Poulter, Colin Montgomerie, Lee Westwood, Paul Mcginley, Thomas Bjorn, and Sam Torrance need to beat their chest every two years because they lose sight of the fact that they never closed the door in a Major and need to rely on others to do their bidding for them...Did Brooks Keopka, Dustin Johnson or Phil Mickelson look like they gave a **** this week?...the answer is no...because they let their majors do their talking for them...




    I had considered it, then I remember how much you enjoy beating golfing no marks in the Presidents cup. So having considered it, I realized it was stupid. What you don't like is accepting you aren't the best. Dont worry, Jason day et all will be back to feed your egos in 12 months image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • GSDriverGSDriver Members Posts: 582 ✭✭
    edited Oct 1, 2018 #29
    Seems like the armchair captains/QBs have not realized that the Euros played great and deserved to win. US players had time to walk the course, plot a strategy, etc. and failed to either do so, or execute something beyond bomb and gouge.



    MAYBE the USGA and PGA Tour will learn something.....if you grow the rough where it's actually penal to be in, maybe players will go back to trying to hit the fairway....I doubt it but wouldn't that be amazing?
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  • HackerGTHackerGT Members Posts: 49 ✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:


    bscinstnct wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.




    Makes all the difference.



    Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:



    Tiger

    Phil

    Bubba

    Rickie

    And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.



    Team will be young and hungry overall.


    Agree. Unfortunately Bubba a Rickie were auto qualifiers. I wouldn't expect Bubba to in two years but who knows. I'm sure Rickie will be on there. Personally I don't think he should be on the team. He's dreadful at match play




    I'm saying,



    No more auto qualifying if you are over 30 and have a losing RC record. Under my system, It's the opposite,



    Auto-disqualifying



    The only way to make the team if you are over 30 is if you have a winning record or it's your first time.



    It's a basic way to screen out people who have done well during the season but have not performed in the RC.





    You get it right. Or, youre terminated ; )



    hqdefault.jpg




    ages of European Ryder Cup captain's picks



    Paul Casey 41

    Sergio Garcia 38

    Ian Poulter 42

    Henrik Stenson 42



    age didn't seem to be a problem for them.



    Justin Rose is 38

    Francesco Molinari is 35. He was 0-4-2 in two previous Ryder Cups.

    Alex Noren rookie is 36



    Don't think age is the problem for U.S. team, it's desire. The U.S. team is a bunch of individuals placed together for 1 week for an event which happens every other year. I honestly do not think Tiger loses a moment of sleep over this loss. He doesn't care that much.
  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... location, location.Members Posts: 7,803 ✭✭
    The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.
    PING G400 Max 10°
    PING G400 16.5°
    PING G400 hybrid 19°
    PING i25 hybrid 22°
    Callaway XHP 5-AW
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth, 54° SS, 58° ES
    Kevin Burns 9306
    Snell MTB Red Optic Yellow
«134567
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