Driver vs Driver 2

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  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    rainkingjr wrote:


    They lost me when they chose the Triton over the Pivot on the first series. Everyone raved about the pivot's performance and they picked the Triton. Made zero sense to me.




    Totally with you on that
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  • Darth_BladerDarth_Blader Members Posts: 993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    6 months after the release, pick up the driver for $60, pull the shaft and pitch the head. Rinse and repeat. Works for me!
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  • umassgolferumassgolfer Members Posts: 821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have 2 main problems with the show:



    1) The designers aren't taken seriously. They are treated as being "lucky to be here". If you truly appreciate these designers and think they'll produce a viable product, treat them like professionals and not contest winners.



    2) Along those lines, the R&D process is what's actually interesting about the show. Why not take 4 - 6 designs with the most promise - combination of innovation, performance, marketability - and let them all go all the way through the process, ending with 4 drivers. Maybe put an in-house Wilson design in the mix as a benchmark. One of them will rise above the rest and be the winner. But by only actually comparing 2 "finished" drivers in a finale, Wilson is doing themselves a disservice.
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I have 2 main problems with the show: 1) The designers aren't taken seriously. They are treated as being "lucky to be here". If you truly appreciate these designers and think they'll produce a viable product, treat them like professionals and not contest winners. 2) Along those lines, the R&D process is what's actually interesting about the show. Why not take 4 - 6 designs with the most promise - combination of innovation, performance, marketability - and let them all go all the way through the process, ending with 4 drivers. Maybe put an in-house Wilson design in the mix as a benchmark. One of them will rise above the rest and be the winner. But by only actually comparing 2 "finished" drivers in a finale, Wilson is doing themselves a disservice.




    i think this is a great idea but is probably too costly from an R&D aspect.
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  • DoubleAlbatrossDoubleAlbatross Members Posts: 120 ✭✭✭
    Wilson is on the wrong track with these prototype designs. Too many useless farkles and gizmos. Why not try to deliver a functional, good looking head and focus on a price point advantage? If they want to do something meaningful in terms of distance potential, offer a adapter extension to allow for 45"and 48" alternative lengths and two removable weights to retain constant swingweight. Next, focus on some quality shaft options. Driver head technology is more or less (+/- .1%) maxed out under existing rules.
  • jojjoj Members Posts: 134 ✭✭
    edited Oct 10, 2018 #97
    This is just terrible all the way around. Wilson R&D guys know that nothing is really going to revolutionize performance under current standards. So when they pitch something crazy different, the judges laugh because they already know it won’t work.



    Here’s the important thing: Everyone had to submit their ideas long before this show was filmed. I would bet that if Wilson saw something worthwhile, they would bring that idea in-house immediately and have it bypass the show altogether.
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    joj wrote:


    This is just terrible all the way around. Wilson R&D guys know that nothing is really going to revolutionize performance under current standards. So when they pitch something crazy different, the judges laugh because they already know it won’t work.



    Here’s the important thing: Everyone had to submit their ideas long before this show was filmed. I would bet that if Wilson saw something worthwhile, they would bring that idea in-house immediately and have it bypass the show altogether.




    i am sure there are some intellectual property or patents in play that prevent that.
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    3 iron Cobra King Utility
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    PUTTER; Carbon Ringo welded long neck.
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  • morgan1819morgan1819 Official Member Members Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Once you realize that the sole purpose of the show is marketing, and basically an infomercial in disguise, some of the ridiculous decisions they make, start to make sense.



    - Choosing the Triton over the Pivot was ridiculous.



    - Not involving Wilson's own R&D on a deeper level in the show is ridiculous. Yep, Jim Bob can build a better driver in his basement than a company with $800 million in revenue. Sure. OK. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    - Tim Clarke dismissing drivers solely on whether or not the technology is "visual on the rack" ... is ridiculous.





    They could have actually done this right. Shown a ton more R&D. Wilson has some serious juice in that department ... it should be a strength for them.

    They could have built off the success of their irons (all of the major championships, and the new V6 irons might be the best on the market), and caught the attention of serious golfers.

    Conducted a ton of head to head testing by pro golfers only. No more Herm Edwards supposedly chipping them out there over 300 yards, with his 70mph swing speed.

    Signed a couple of top players to play the driver that their own R&D team developed. Someone like Finau or Rahm would be worth every penny.



    These infomercials are doomed to be on the wrong side of history. Infomercials are a great way to trick people into overpaying for some steak knives, but most golfers are going to see right through them, and stick with equipment that has been proven to work on the tour.



    ...

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  • GWfoolGWfool Members Posts: 74 ✭✭
    morgan1819 wrote:


    Once you realize that the sole purpose of the show is marketing, and basically an infomercial in disguise, some of the ridiculous decisions they make, start to make sense.



    - Choosing the Triton over the Pivot was ridiculous.



    - Not involving Wilson's own R&D on a deeper level in the show is ridiculous. Yep, Jim Bob can build a better driver in his basement than a company with $800 million in revenue. Sure. OK. image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    - Tim Clarke dismissing drivers solely on whether or not the technology is "visual on the rack" ... is ridiculous.





    They could have actually done this right. Shown a ton more R&D. Wilson has some serious juice in that department ... it should be a strength for them.

    They could have built off the success of their irons (all of the major championships, and the new V6 irons might be the best on the market), and caught the attention of serious golfers.

    Conducted a ton of head to head testing by pro golfers only. No more Herm Edwards supposedly chipping them out there over 300 yards, with his 70mph swing speed.

    Signed a couple of top players to play the driver that their own R&D team developed. Someone like Finau or Rahm would be worth every penny.



    These infomercials are doomed to be on the wrong side of history. Infomercials are a great way to trick people into overpaying for some steak knives, but most golfers are going to see right through them, and stick with equipment that has been proven to work on the tour.



    ...




    You are completely right about how ridiculous Tim Clarke looks. (1) As you said, the discussion of how it looks on the rack is absurd in today's environment, (2) in the same regard, it shouldn't be the designer's job to market the club that should be his job and if you cannot market internal technology then you need a new marketing department, and (3) Tim Clarke seems to enjoy being a snarky a****** to every contestant entirely too much.
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    kmay__ wrote:


    I didn't realize the Triton was so universally looked down upon. I finally upgraded my old r580 to a Triton over the winter when they were on clearance price, and I've been getting on with it quite well. What's the reason why everyone thinks it is so bad?




    Got poo-pooed for not being conforming. I think the USGA was being picky on it, but overall the responsibility is on Wilson and that was an egregious blunder.



    The other part is the face is severely closed at address and it's really loud.



    I did have a friend that got one and put some hot melt to reduce the sound and he said it was really long.



    But when you don't conform and you have a hooked face it comes off like a joke.













    RH
  • Holy MosesHoly Moses Members Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:

    kmay__ wrote:


    I didn't realize the Triton was so universally looked down upon. I finally upgraded my old r580 to a Triton over the winter when they were on clearance price, and I've been getting on with it quite well. What's the reason why everyone thinks it is so bad?




    Got poo-pooed for not being conforming. I think the USGA was being picky on it, but overall the responsibility is on Wilson and that was an egregious blunder.



    The other part is the face is severely closed at address and it's really loud.



    I did have a friend that got one and put some hot melt to reduce the sound and he said it was really long.



    But when you don't conform and you have a hooked face it comes off like a joke.













    RH




    Boy you’d think a driver that is super long and adds a right to left ballflight would be adored!
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I haven't seen the 2nd episode, but I actually like the show overall. I enjoy the concept, but as somebody mentioned here earlier...the execution is lacking.



    I had a real problem with them using Urlacher last year. He's not a good golfer and didn't contribute anything worthwhile. Now, Roenick is a really good golfer and a fanatic. Shiels understands the market really well and what the club-buying golfer likes.



    My guess is that Tim Clarke is purposely negative as part of the show and is being directed to do so. I would not have made that remark with regards to not being able to see the technology. That is just too stupid of a thing to say, particularly for a CEO. I can't see the Jailbreak technology, but I know what it is because Callaway markets Jailbreak technology in selling their drivers and fairway woods.



    Maybe that's why Wilson is in their position they are in...Clarke doesn't understand the power of marketing.



    I do think they all harp on aesthetics too much. Aesthetics is really low on the priority list if you really have a great performing driver. People forget that when the Ping Anser putter first came out...people called it UGLY! It wasn't like the traditional putter designs like the George Low Wizard or the 8802. But, for many golfers it clearly outperformed and they started to deal with the aesthetics. Now if you say the Anser head design is ugly, you may have somebody let the air out of your car tires.



    I thought some of the designs were interesting. The exoskeletal design is certainly interesting. I also liked the idea of being able to open up the sole of the driver and put weight wherever you need to put it. To me, that's huge (if feasible) because CoG location is really critical to fitting and the current weights to adjust CoG are still fairly limited. The bowling company guys had an interesting concept and it wasn't too far off, conceptually, from what Ping is doing with their turbulators. I didn't get them not advancing because they didn't know if the design would work or not. I'd rather find out if it works or not.



    As far as performance goes, I do believe there's still room for advancements and we just haven't found them, yet. For instance, Not allowed because of spam did a study using a mint condition TaylorMade R7 versus the TaylorMade M1 and found golfers were hitting the M1 about 25-30 yards further. Why? Because TM made some design changes with a change of CoG location (and other features as well).



    We were supposedly at our limits of what a driver could do when the R7 was designed. So I think it stands to reason that there will be some other technology to come along to help increase distance or make a driver more accurate or both.













    RH
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Holy Moses wrote:


    Boy you'd think a driver that is super long and adds a right to left ballflight would be adored!




    Problem is that people associate a hooked face with Game Improvement garbage. My friend who owns one is a 2 handicap and the issue he had with it was hitting pull draws due to the closed face.















    RH
  • 03trdblack03trdblack Wake Forest, NCClubWRX Posts: 1,901 ClubWRX
    RichieHunt wrote:


    I do think they all harp on aesthetics too much. Aesthetics is really low on the priority list if you really have a great performing driver. People forget that when the Ping Anser putter first came out...people called it UGLY! It wasn't like the traditional putter designs like the George Low Wizard or the 8802. But, for many golfers it clearly outperformed and they started to deal with the aesthetics. Now if you say the Anser head design is ugly, you may have somebody let the air out of your car tires.




    Maybe they are extra sensitive since they picked the Triton over something more traditional like the Pivot design or they are completely clueless. I personally found the Triton to perform well but the look wasn't the most beautiful by any stretch. I've also found most of the things Tim Clarke has said are completely hypocritical to what Wilson has done in the past or what competitors have actually accomplished with great success.



    The main thing that Wilson has yet to figure out is the acoustics of a driver. Every Wilson driver that I've hit that has performed well (F5, Triton, C300) but the sound has missed the mark. It's been the same high pitched trash can sound that the older square drivers used to share. Maybe the sound measuring R&D equipment was just too much for Wilson to splurge on.
  • TinkerGolfManTinkerGolfMan Tinker Golf Man Members Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Nixhex524 wrote:

    BigHook25 wrote:

    sdandrea wrote:


    Given the fact that the first show produced a total flop, why on earth would it get another go? I didn't make it through an entire episode of the first one unless I needed a nap. Ugh....




    The golf channel has to fill space during what is essentially the off-season for golf.




    I'd rather bring Big Break back.... I do like Shiels on TV... he seems natural. May wind up with his own spot...




    Agreed to bring back Big Break!
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 10, 2018 #107
    rainkingjr wrote:


    They lost me when they chose the Triton over the Pivot on the first series. Everyone raved about the pivot's performance and they picked the Triton. Made zero sense to me.




    It’s The ego of these judges. Watched the first episode today. And they cut down the smartest guy there. The Cat with the removable top. He mentioned the ability to open it up to add weight etc. they cut him off and told him “ people don’t want to buy a Driver and have to add weight to it “. Wtf ? Every good player I know cuts a Driver down at least a touch and adds weight. Making this easier is a great idea.



    Their problem is they are trying to market a driver to the masses. And they will never sell enough to matter. I think they’d do better making a niche piece that works , sounds good and is hot. Pair it with premium shafts at a price under $400 and you could sell it. Otherwise it’s entirely a waste of time.
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Their problem is they are trying to market a driver to the masses. And they will never sell enough to matter. I think they'd do better making a niche piece that works , sounds good and is hot. Pair it with premium shafts at a price under $400 and you could sell it. Otherwise it's entirely a waste of time.




    I think in the end, if you want to appeal to the masses you need a club that appeals to the Tour player. Lots of people own M3's, Callaway Rogue's, etc. that are probably not the best fit for them. But, the Tour players use it, so they want it.



    It's the same thing with Pro V1's being used by double digit handicappers.













    RH
  • DoglegRightDoglegRight Members Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Somehow it's been lost that Adams had a very easy to use shaft length modification system in its Fast 12 LS drivers. Each driver came with an extender that fit right into the adjustable hose system and adjustable weights to maintain the swing weight. I've always wondered when a "major" manufacturer would reintroduce such a system as the next revolutionary level of adjustment.




    Wilson is on the wrong track with these prototype designs. Too many useless farkles and gizmos. Why not try to deliver a functional, good looking head and focus on a price point advantage? If they want to do something meaningful in terms of distance potential, offer a adapter extension to allow for 45"and 48" alternative lengths and two removable weights to retain constant swingweight. Next, focus on some quality shaft options. Driver head technology is more or less (+/- .1%) maxed out under existing rules.
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX Members Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    They should have kept the girl from Las Vegas. Samantha? I have no idea what her driver was, but she was easy on the eyes. I’d rather see her than these gimmicky napkin drawings.
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  • 03trdblack03trdblack Wake Forest, NCClubWRX Posts: 1,901 ClubWRX
    RichieHunt wrote:



    Their problem is they are trying to market a driver to the masses. And they will never sell enough to matter. I think they'd do better making a niche piece that works , sounds good and is hot. Pair it with premium shafts at a price under $400 and you could sell it. Otherwise it's entirely a waste of time.




    I think in the end, if you want to appeal to the masses you need a club that appeals to the Tour player. Lots of people own M3's, Callaway Rogue's, etc. that are probably not the best fit for them. But, the Tour players use it, so they want it.



    It's the same thing with Pro V1's being used by double digit handicappers.













    RH




    The thing I liked most about the Triton was that I could rip the entire thing apart and do what I wanted to it. Best club ever to add hot melt to as well as poly fill to help with the sound.
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX Members Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    03trdblack wrote:


    The thing I liked most about the Triton was that I could rip the entire thing apart and do what I wanted to it. Best club ever to add hot melt to as well as poly fill to help with the sound.


    I prefer a well designed driver that doesn’t need so many band-aids to make it tolerable.
    “I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from **** is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
  • Nixhex524Nixhex524 ClubWRX Posts: 4,164 ClubWRX
    The show looks like a confession that Wilson has ZERO idea of how to build or market a decent driver. Someone said it before but expecting an amateur designer to come up with a design that a million dollar company seemingly can not, is just weak on Wilson's part... I get it, it's for entertainment purposes, too, but as a whole it just looks bad on Wilson to me. They seem to be overthinking everything. Thats ok as long as you can actually build a driver that isn't hideous and is also conforming... I'm not sure Wilson has it in them.
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  • mukstermukster The secret IS in the dirt North of the 49thMembers Posts: 3,579 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I watched season, but cannot get myself to watch this one. I did see some of the first (I think) episode.

    My comments:



    1) To me it creates the appearance that Wilson has no R&D of their own and needs to get this from elsewhere, hence the show.

    2) The judges poo poo any idea of "tech" (I hate that word by the way) that cannot be seen, despite Callaway's jailbreak technology being very much on the inside of the club and has done very well for them.

    3) Time Clarke said something to one contestant about trying to sell drivers that promote accuracy is no good, now if it screamed extra distance, it would be great. How much more extra distance does he think someone will come up with that is still within USGA limits? Yeah, I know distance sells, but his comment came off as really silly.



    4) I can see all the Wilson PGA staff players desperately trying to negotiate a new club deal where they don't have to play Wilson drivers image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • BlackM00NlightBlackM00Nlight IowaMembers Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't watch season 1 but watching season 2.



    If you can create a sweet sounding driver that performs and has visible tech to sell on a neutral looking head that can also withstand the forces of repeated high speed strikes, you win.. lol



    Really though, some of the judges comments are frustrating yet there is an appeal to continue watching to see how the R&D takes the concepts and shapes them into reality.
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  • 03trdblack03trdblack Wake Forest, NCClubWRX Posts: 1,901 ClubWRX
    mukster wrote:




    My comments:



    4) I can see all the Wilson PGA staff players desperately trying to negotiate a new club deal where they don't have to play Wilson drivers image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />




    There's not a single staffer that's required to play a Wilson driver and none of them do with the exception of the D300 played by Troy Merritt. Streelman played the Triton for maybe one event just to say he did but that's about it.
  • 03trdblack03trdblack Wake Forest, NCClubWRX Posts: 1,901 ClubWRX
    SubaruWRX wrote:

    03trdblack wrote:


    The thing I liked most about the Triton was that I could rip the entire thing apart and do what I wanted to it. Best club ever to add hot melt to as well as poly fill to help with the sound.


    I prefer a well designed driver that doesn’t need so many band-aids to make it tolerable.




    Being a professional clubmaker I always have to modify something to get the club the way I want it. Quality control from the factory is never tight enough and you can't custom order things like hot melt. It's part of the reason clubmakers exist! Having a club that makes it easier to customize is just icing on the cake.
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky Members Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 11, 2018 #118
    Watched the first two episodes and just like last year doesn’t really keep my attention. The spin this year with the W advance abd trying to get teams to combine are different but still not enough.



    Only thing I’m interested in is next week when the pros hit them but other than that the way they did the design phase last year wasn’t enough into the process to win me over, also doesn’t help that I’m not a fan oh any w/s driver
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 11, 2018 #119
    SubaruWRX wrote:

    03trdblack wrote:


    The thing I liked most about the Triton was that I could rip the entire thing apart and do what I wanted to it. Best club ever to add hot melt to as well as poly fill to help with the sound.


    I prefer a well designed driver that doesn’t need so many band-aids to make it tolerable.




    Good luck with that. Until they stop making them 45 inches plus , hotmelt is a must for us who want a driver that you can control. To cut one down to 43.5 -44.5 is to need to add 15g back to the head for me to achieve a weight I can feel the head with. They will never mass produce this. Too many believe that a 45.5 inch Driver with a light head is faster. 99% of the time it isn’t. Not In ball speed. Why ? Center strike is alwasy faster.
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  • getair23getair23 Members Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm already anticipating the D-chills, when Shiels has to review the driver on his YouTube channel.
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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Kind of ironic that CEO is obsessed with visible tech when the hottest trend in irons is zero visible tech.

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