2020 PGA Merchandise Show Coverage.... Here.

Driver vs Driver 2

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  • irvtrainirvtrain Denver, CO 1029WRX Points: 121Handicap: .4Members Posts: 1,029
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    QuigleyDU wrote:

    Walkerdb7 wrote:

    irvtrain wrote:


    Walkerdb7, thanks for the info and insight. Do you think 3d printing is viable option down the road to produce golf clubs? Do you think further down the road, people could use online templates to create their own drivers and have them built via 3d printing? This is an awesome concept and could be the future of specialized clubs.




    Absolutely.



    Right now when we buy "custom fitted" clubs we are just buying a stock product adjusted to fit our swings. 3D printing would allow us to actually customize the products. Imagine doing an iron fitting and actually being able to customize the top line thickness, blade length, or CG location.



    It would be the different between buying a suit and having it tailored and buying a bespoke suit made to measure.




    right and that driver will cost $3500!




    Well market forces will be what they will be. I mean PXG seems to be doing quite well.
    Posted:
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  • broomstickerbroomsticker  49WRX Points: 90Handicap: 1Members Posts: 49
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    The USGA just called. They said to stop right there.
    Posted:

    F7 9* Fujikura Pro 60 S
    13* F7
    19* and 22* Callaway XR Hybrids
    5-GW Wilson V6 S300 AMT
    55* Mizuno S5
    60* Mizuno S5
    STX Sync 3 45"

  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU  9085WRX Points: 2,589Handicap: 8Members Posts: 9,085
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    irvtrain wrote:

    QuigleyDU wrote:

    Walkerdb7 wrote:

    irvtrain wrote:


    Walkerdb7, thanks for the info and insight. Do you think 3d printing is viable option down the road to produce golf clubs? Do you think further down the road, people could use online templates to create their own drivers and have them built via 3d printing? This is an awesome concept and could be the future of specialized clubs.




    Absolutely.



    Right now when we buy "custom fitted" clubs we are just buying a stock product adjusted to fit our swings. 3D printing would allow us to actually customize the products. Imagine doing an iron fitting and actually being able to customize the top line thickness, blade length, or CG location.



    It would be the different between buying a suit and having it tailored and buying a bespoke suit made to measure.




    right and that driver will cost $3500!




    Well market forces will be what they will be. I mean PXG seems to be doing quite well.




    only because he does not care if he makes any money.
    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway Epic SubZero 3D 9*, Fujikura Ventus 7X
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Mizuno MP-18 MB Aldila RIP SLT Tour 115X Flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 52, 58, 64
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3955WRX Points: 596Members Posts: 3,955
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    I think Cortex is probably in the lead, followed by Roswell. I think it was a good move to allow Chell to advance. Dial Shot was doomed. All looks, no performance.









    YR
    Posted:
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX  3710WRX Points: 478Members Posts: 3,710
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    Roswell will win.



    But in a marketing twist, the name will change to D8 to fit in after the D7 lproducts. The weird weight track already looks like the number 8, so it will be an understandable change.
    Posted:
    “I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from **** is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
  • aliikanealiikane  1685WRX Points: 159Handicap: 2Members Posts: 1,685
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    Maybe some people like the show. I am not a fan of the show. I just don't see how they can realistically get a bunch of designers design a driver without working closely with engineers. None of them seem to have a background of making clubs and high level knowledge of what will affect the ball flight, spin, launch angle, smash factor. Big Break was a better show, but I don't think they can get players into tour events and possibly too costly to make.
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  • DBillDBill  1140WRX Points: 141Members Posts: 1,140
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    SubaruWRX wrote:


    Roswell will win.



    But in a marketing twist, the name will change to D8 to fit in after the D7 lproducts. The weird weight track already looks like the number 8, so it will be an understandable change.




    How about just "The Ocho" has a better ring to it.
    Posted:
  • theboypinoytheboypinoy  2102WRX Points: 146Members Posts: 2,102
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    It was interesting to see Rick Shiels hit it. It was only one swing, but with his YouTube videos where he normally shows his numbers, it's interesting to see where it stacks up so far
    Posted:
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky  2413WRX Points: 809Members Posts: 2,413
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    aliikane wrote:


    Maybe some people like the show. I am not a fan of the show. I just don't see how they can realistically get a bunch of designers design a driver without working closely with engineers. None of them seem to have a background of making clubs and high level knowledge of what will affect the ball flight, spin, launch angle, smash factor. Big Break was a better show, but I don't think they can get players into tour events and possibly too costly to make.




    They work with the w/s engineers we just don’t get to see any of that
    Posted:
  • the bishopthe bishop  3705WRX Points: 616Members Posts: 3,705
    Joined:  #191
    DBill wrote:

    SubaruWRX wrote:


    Roswell will win.



    But in a marketing twist, the name will change to D8 to fit in after the D7 lproducts. The weird weight track already looks like the number 8, so it will be an understandable change.




    How about just "The Ocho" has a better ring to it.


    They can market it for being for "Average Joe's"
    Posted:
    Ping G400 10*
    TM M1 (2016) 14*
    Maltby KE4 Tour 19*
    W/S C300 Forged 4-P
    W/S PMP 50/54/58
    TM Ardmore 3
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3955WRX Points: 596Members Posts: 3,955
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    This is a much better season. Roenick is more qualified to discuss things than Urlacher. Personally, I would prefer somebody more qualified than Roenick. ****, how about a Tour staffer? But, I understand that they are looking for some celebrity to work with to get more eyeballs.



    Shiels has been a nice addition to the show.



    I think I would like the show more if they just got it down to 4 contestants and see what those 4 contestants have and with the W/S engineers to design the best possible driver. It would also be nice if they could come up with 2 models for the same design, much like the Callaway Rogue and the Callaway Rogue Sub Zero. That way you can meet the demands of more golfers.



    For instance, I think each of the 4 designs left have merit. The Cortex driver has quality looks and sound. It's less innovative, but still fairly innovative. Jimmy's driver (I forget the names) has better overall performance in terms of accuracy due to its symmetrical design. Jeremy Chell's design allows for greater freedom to adjust the weight location. And the Roswell has interesting features (I don't think they've even gotten to the Tribecular design stuff either).



    Tough to see those get put to the wayside instead of being developed further.













    RH
    Posted:
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  • the bishopthe bishop  3705WRX Points: 616Members Posts: 3,705
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    RichieHunt wrote:


    This is a much better season. Roenick is more qualified to discuss things than Urlacher. Personally, I would prefer somebody more qualified than Roenick. ****, how about a Tour staffer? But, I understand that they are looking for some celebrity to work with to get more eyeballs.



    Shiels has been a nice addition to the show.



    I think I would like the show more if they just got it down to 4 contestants and see what those 4 contestants have and with the W/S engineers to design the best possible driver. It would also be nice if they could come up with 2 models for the same design, much like the Callaway Rogue and the Callaway Rogue Sub Zero. That way you can meet the demands of more golfers.



    For instance, I think each of the 4 designs left have merit. The Cortex driver has quality looks and sound. It's less innovative, but still fairly innovative. Jimmy's driver (I forget the names) has better overall performance in terms of accuracy due to its symmetrical design. Jeremy Chell's design allows for greater freedom to adjust the weight location. And the Roswell has interesting features (I don't think they've even gotten to the Tribecular design stuff either).



    Tough to see those get put to the wayside instead of being developed further.













    RH


    I thought Streelman provided some input on the first season? As far as a regular presence might be hard to coordinate that with playing schedules. However a guy like Mike Small could be a good fit. U of Illinois golf coach so he's relatively close by. Excellent player who competes semi-regularly on Champions Tour and longtime Wilson staffer. IRT the designs that get eliminated, I wonder if Wilson retains IP rights to the designs that would prevent someone from taking their design elsewhere for further development?
    Posted:
    Ping G400 10*
    TM M1 (2016) 14*
    Maltby KE4 Tour 19*
    W/S C300 Forged 4-P
    W/S PMP 50/54/58
    TM Ardmore 3
  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro AL 3365WRX Points: 320Handicap: +1ClubWRX Posts: 3,365
    Joined:  #194
    Watched the next episode, demo day.



    First off, I’m tired of Frank the engineer.



    Magnus reminds me of one of Ben Hogan golf’s first attempts at adjustable weight drivers. I believe it was called the Big Ben CS3. Pretty ugly IMO.



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/12009-ben-hogan-big-ben-cs3/



    I say the cortex is going to win. The Roswell is just too much, same with dial s***. The magnus looks like old tech. No reason for a driver with a removable top - reminds me of a lunch box. Wonder if I can my lunch in it to help with the sound?

























    Posted:
    Taylormade m5 Tour Atmos Black TS
    Taylormade m6 fairway Atmos
    Titleist TS3 19 hybrid Evenflow Black
    Mizuno Hot Metal Pro 4-pw
    Vokey SM7 52/58 wedges 
    Scotty Cameron Futura 5.5m
  • bbr16bbr16  97WRX Points: 76Members Posts: 97
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    I was surprised to see them making another driver vs driver, but from Wilson’s point of view it makes sense. Lots of brand exposure, and it it doesn’t look like it can get any worse than the triton this year.



    Seeings the pros test the drivers was interesting. Rick Shiels was a good addition to the show. I think it will either be Roswell or Cortex that wins. Jimmy comes off as arrogant to me, and probably next to get the boot.
    Posted:
  • tjl48tjl48 MN 226WRX Points: 49Handicap: 4Members Posts: 226
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    bbr16 wrote:


    Jimmy comes off as arrogant to me, and probably next to get the boot.




    I agree. I thought he should have gotten the boot just based off his response to the question they gave him last night.
    Posted:
  • munichopmunichop  317WRX Points: 179Members Posts: 317
    Joined:  #197
    Based on the shows edits it appears the cortex and roswell are in the lead. I expect they will be the final 2 and manufacturing costs will determine the winner though they likely won't tell us that. The removable lid design has disaster written all over it even worse than the non conforming Triton because Wilson will have to refund money to pissed off customers. Plus the USGA may not like that aspect of the design and rule it non conforming. The other driver looks too odd for too many people so I see that one leaving as well. what I am interested in seeing is a Rick Shiels review on the winnig club where he compares it to Ping, Callaway and Taylormade products.
    Posted:
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  • Double GeeDouble Gee  1081WRX Points: 99Members Posts: 1,081
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    Cortex looks excellent. Easily as sweet as half the mainstream products. I can quite easily see that on a sales rack and selling.
    Posted:
  • scotty_2987scotty_2987  269WRX Points: 104Handicap: 4.0Members Posts: 269
    Joined:  #199
    tjl48 wrote:

    bbr16 wrote:


    Jimmy comes off as arrogant to me, and probably next to get the boot.




    I agree. I thought he should have gotten the boot just based off his response to the question they gave him last night.




    I agree as well, I really hope he doesn’t win. His head couldn’t get any bigger.
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt  3955WRX Points: 596Members Posts: 3,955
    Joined:  #200
    I understand where Jimmy is coming from. That's his baby and some people do not give it a fair shot because of its looks. It performed the best in terms of accuracy and precision and it would be aggravating to me to hear people complain about the look when the idea of equipment and golf is to shoot the lowest scores. If people complained about the lack of distance compared to another driver, then Jimmy would have less of a right to be defensive. Even if it was a feel or sound issue the argument is better. But a looks issue...I just don't buy into it if the club is performing better.



    From what I have gathered, Jimmy has created an incredibly forgiving head in terms of accuracy and precision, but w/o all of this MOI which increases the spin. So it's a forgiving club in terms of accuracy, but it still has high launch and low spin capability. The issue appears that from a distance perspective, there's more of a distance loss on off center hits than the other clubs or a Ping G400 Max driver.



    I don't think Jimmy has handled it with the best of tact. It's one thing to be confrontation with Tim Clarke, Roenick and Shiels...it's another to be confrontational with customers before the product has been released. But...I do see where he's coming from.











    RH
    Posted:
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky  2413WRX Points: 809Members Posts: 2,413
    Joined:  #201
    munichop wrote:


    Based on the shows edits it appears the cortex and roswell are in the lead. I expect they will be the final 2 and manufacturing costs will determine the winner though they likely won't tell us that. The removable lid design has disaster written all over it even worse than the non conforming Triton because Wilson will have to refund money to pissed off customers. Plus the USGA may not like that aspect of the design and rule it non conforming. The other driver looks too odd for too many people so I see that one leaving as well. what I am interested in seeing is a Rick Shiels review on the winnig club where he compares it to Ping, Callaway and Taylormade products.




    I’m betting w/s learned from the triton mistake and will figure out how to get the winner on the conforming list around the release/announcement if show winner to avoid that disaster two years in a row.
    Posted:
  • salmon2salmon2  100WRX Points: 60Members Posts: 100
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    tjl48 wrote:

    bbr16 wrote:


    Jimmy comes off as arrogant to me, and probably next to get the boot.




    I agree. I thought he should have gotten the boot just based off his response to the question they gave him last night.




    He just needs to learn a little tact. He wanted something that was higher performing AND looked different as a completely different option from the mainstream designs. He didn't need to be such a smug ***** about it. He could have said that Ping, Titleist, Taylor etc already have that traditional look and he wasn't simply looking to copy what had already been achieved by other manufacturers. He did pretty much demonstrate why the engineering departments is separate from the marketing or sales department though!
    Posted:
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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU  9085WRX Points: 2,589Handicap: 8Members Posts: 9,085
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    RichieHunt wrote:


    I understand where Jimmy is coming from. That's his baby and some people do not give it a fair shot because of its looks. It performed the best in terms of accuracy and precision and it would be aggravating to me to hear people complain about the look when the idea of equipment and golf is to shoot the lowest scores. If people complained about the lack of distance compared to another driver, then Jimmy would have less of a right to be defensive. Even if it was a feel or sound issue the argument is better. But a looks issue...I just don't buy into it if the club is performing better.



    From what I have gathered, Jimmy has created an incredibly forgiving head in terms of accuracy and precision, but w/o all of this MOI which increases the spin. So it's a forgiving club in terms of accuracy, but it still has high launch and low spin capability. The issue appears that from a distance perspective, there's more of a distance loss on off center hits than the other clubs or a Ping G400 Max driver.



    I don't think Jimmy has handled it with the best of tact. It's one thing to be confrontation with Tim Clarke, Roenick and Shiels...it's another to be confrontational with customers before the product has been released. But...I do see where he's coming from.











    RH




    the problem is that looks is almost as important as performance when someone buys a club. maybe more so for initial interest.
    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway Epic SubZero 3D 9*, Fujikura Ventus 7X
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Mizuno MP-18 MB Aldila RIP SLT Tour 115X Flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 52, 58, 64
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
  • Mtngolfer1Mtngolfer1  1720WRX Points: 148Handicap: 12Lefty Boomers Posts: 1,720
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    Based on the feedback from the demo day and the numbers posted I agree with what some others have already said in that the Cortex is the front runner. I believe last year's winner Titan was too far removed from the mainstream, that paired with the initial launch conforming issue negatively impacted market perception and ultimately sales numbers. I saw good result wit the Titan when I demoed it, so performance IMO was not the issue. The Cortex appears to have overcome the appearance hurdle and I would be very surprised if the USGA approval became a issue again. I just don't see any of the other designs doing enough this late in the contest to overcome the Cortex advantage. I could be wrong, it will b fun to watch and find out.
    Posted:
  • ssfrannyssfranny  2990WRX Points: 269Lefty Boomers Posts: 2,990
    Joined:  #205
    Walkerdb7 wrote:


    Hi All, My name is Jon and I work for EOS 3D printing. My company supported this week's episode of the show. Ti 3D printing was used to build the prototypes used for show.



    I am happy to answer any questions anyone has!



    Here's an article about the upcoming episdoe:



    [url="http://Hi All, My name is Jon and I work for EOS 3D printing. My company supported this week"]https://golfweek.com...-in-drivers-ed/[/url]




    Your company should have a deaign contest and these best one sell to a major OEM. What doea it cost to build one of these Ti prototypes?
    Posted:
  • gbartkogbartko Whooooo!  668WRX Points: 224Members Posts: 668
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    Meh. I’ll watch when DeNinny is on the show.
    Posted:
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX  3710WRX Points: 478Members Posts: 3,710
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    He should have checked into the name a bit more. When I hear cortex, I immediately think of Babolat tennis racquets. They’ve used cortex for over a decade.



    Posted:
    “I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from **** is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU  9085WRX Points: 2,589Handicap: 8Members Posts: 9,085
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    SubaruWRX wrote:


    He should have checked into the name a bit more. When I hear cortex, I immediately think of Babolat tennis racquets. They've used cortex for over a decade.







    I have never heard of babbadook tennis racquets. so their use of the name has no influence on me.
    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway Epic SubZero 3D 9*, Fujikura Ventus 7X
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Mizuno MP-18 MB Aldila RIP SLT Tour 115X Flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 52, 58, 64
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
  • theboypinoytheboypinoy  2102WRX Points: 146Members Posts: 2,102
    Joined:  #209

    tjl48 wrote:

    bbr16 wrote:


    Jimmy comes off as arrogant to me, and probably next to get the boot.




    I agree. I thought he should have gotten the boot just based off his response to the question they gave him last night.




    I agree as well, I really hope he doesn't win. His head couldn't get any bigger.




    Well based on the preview they ran of next week's episode, looks like there'll be more material to use in disliking him
    Posted:
  • TheMoneyShotTheMoneyShot ***FIGJAM/Twirl of Doom***  31904WRX Points: 1,676Members Posts: 31,904
    Joined:  #210
    SubaruWRX wrote:


    He should have checked into the name a bit more. When I hear cortex, I immediately think of Babolat tennis racquets. They’ve used cortex for over a decade.







    The tennis racket of Rafael Nadel!!!
    Posted:
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  • zeke66zeke66  198WRX Points: 76Members Posts: 198
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    Wilson dropping the ball big time by not implementing some of their own tennis racket technology to help drive the narrative. Or the “Duke” name. Very strong in those categories and can’t do anything to drive the story? Wilson great in baseball as well. Own a few bat companies.... not sure why they can’t figure this out.. create the narrative and explain away the commoditized technology from their.
    Posted:
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