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Are you kidding me!! How come few instructors talk about this!!!!

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, those are cuts from the video I posted, same exact angle.



    If you dont believe that, just use the waterline as your reference. His shoulder starts above the water and drops below it
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #93

    It’s a bunch of different things. Hopefully, you only have to do 1/2 things and get them all.



    Left arm off chest

    Left shoulder off chin

    “Keep back to target”

    Left shoulder down and forward to left leg

    Lead with right elbow

    Stay in left tilt longer

    Regain flexion

    Dropping arms (out and forward too)



    All of those are basically the same move. It’s all how you perceive it.




    Haha. I have practiced almost all of these feels. But I am clinically nuts.



    The only one I don’t do is regain flexion. Because I don’t know what it means and sincerely hope no one tries to explain it.




    kadey wrote:
    So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?




    The way I have been thinking about this is my butt sticks out as I also increase the bend at my hips/spine/lower my head and move my hands away from my chest. If I don’t do all that I’ll hit the hosel.



    That’s the thing that hits me - this whole transition move is a related set of changes - from pulling the handle vertically and goat humping and standing up (decreasing angel between hips/spine) early to the opposite.



    I hadn’t seen this thread till just now. It’s reassuring to me.




    Strange, you said you don't do it, but then you just described how you are in fact doing it!



    As Monte said, part of this move happening is regaining flexion, in order to regain flexion, you have to properly extend in the back-swing



    Lot's of amateurs dont properly extend in the backswing (myself included), so instead of regaining flexion in the downswing, they need to stand up/early extend, etc otherwise they would hit it fat.



    This is exactly what I have been working on with Monte (both the backswing extension and regaining flexion) and it's literally transformed my game
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #94
    Krt22 wrote:

    It’s a bunch of different things. Hopefully, you only have to do 1/2 things and get them all.



    Left arm off chest

    Left shoulder off chin

    “Keep back to target”

    Left shoulder down and forward to left leg

    Lead with right elbow

    Stay in left tilt longer

    Regain flexion

    Dropping arms (out and forward too)



    All of those are basically the same move. It’s all how you perceive it.




    Haha. I have practiced almost all of these feels. But I am clinically nuts.



    The only one I don’t do is regain flexion. Because I don’t know what it means and sincerely hope no one tries to explain it.




    kadey wrote:
    So is this move the result of a spine angle change, or is it a result of the Sneed Squat aka Monte's Zipper Away Drill?




    The way I have been thinking about this is my butt sticks out as I also increase the bend at my hips/spine/lower my head and move my hands away from my chest. If I don’t do all that I’ll hit the hosel.



    That’s the thing that hits me - this whole transition move is a related set of changes - from pulling the handle vertically and goat humping and standing up (decreasing angel between hips/spine) early to the opposite.



    I hadn’t seen this thread till just now. It’s reassuring to me.




    Strange, you said you don't do it, but then you just described how you are in fact doing it!



    As Monte said, part of this move happening is regaining flexion, in order to regain flexion, you have to properly extend in the back-swing



    Lot's of amateurs dont properly extend in the backswing (myself included), so instead of regaining flexion in the downswing, they need to stand up/early extend, etc otherwise they would hit it fat.



    This is exactly what I have been working on with Monte (both the backswing extension and regaining flexion) and it's literally transformed my game




    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.
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  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
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  • TMoakley1547TMoakley1547 Members Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
    Great description of extension. Once you understand what spine extension is, its pretty easy to do it properly. The hard part for me is the how and when of regaining flexion. I got a small taste of doing it properly and on time, and let me tell you i did not know i could strike a ball so good. But i lost the feeling and havent gotten it back. Been working on it ever since.
  • DLiverDLiver Members Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Lamb wrote:


    WTH!! Wait so all these years I just realised that in the downswing the lead shoulder should go down first as to around? I don't believe this! I am angry and shaking with rage that I wasted all these years and $$$$ that something so important was never mentioned to me by my instructors. Not once!!!. I fixed the issue myself having finally watched a YT video. The problem is that although the instruction on the shoulder turn on the DS has been right, far too much emphasis has been placed on the trail shoulder rather than the effects of the lead shoulder.



    Anyway, what I discovered is that getting the shoulder down leads when incorporated with dropping your arms leads to:



    No more early extension

    Amazing shoulder rotation though the ball

    No more coming over the top

    Divots in front of the ball

    Great contact





    Big shoutout to Shaun [email protected] Motion Golf for his life changing video. The sad thing is I saw the video and even posted it a while back but never noticed how important it was.





    [media=]




    This is exactly what I need to do. I know it, but I find it very hard to execute.
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    This question is for DLiver and I’m not picking on him at all. This is actually a question...and partial solution...for all of you.



    Let’s assume that you absolutely need this move and are setup to succeed in putting it in place.



    How long have you tried to implement this move?
  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #99
    Lead shoulder drop is the feel for most of us but a consequence of a good transition. Alot of us know about kelvin/snead/GG’s squat, but when executing the squat we could only increase flexion of trail knee but lose hip/trunk flexion ie extending the hip prematurally. Having the feel of lead shoulder actually drops 2 inches will help delaying hip extension and therefore solid contact.



    As of any swing fixes, do not over do it, just like the squat.
  • airjammerairjammer Members Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    This question is for DLiver and I’m not picking on him at all. This is actually a question...and partial solution...for all of you.



    Let’s assume that you absolutely need this move and are setup to succeed in putting it in place.



    How long have you tried to implement this move?




    Well I did it for 6 months after seeing Dan. Without Dan being actually there to remind me to get my hands deeper and my shaft more vertical this move throws my hand out too far towards the target line.



    My main issues are being dumped under in transition but with my shoulders spinning open. This move is so “powerful” it instantly fixed the dumped under part but couple that with open shoulders..equals shanks. That was with my left shoulder was barely staying down.



    And that is why it’s not talked about much. For the vast majority of golfers it exacerbates the main flaw in their swing..over the top.



    For me personally keeping my back to the target is a far better swing thought for me. I actually keep my left shoulder down better but my hand down get thrown out towards the target line as much.
  • golfarb1golfarb1 Members Posts: 180 ✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #101

    Rohlio wrote:


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
    Great description of extension. Once you understand what spine extension is, its pretty easy to do it properly. The hard part for me is the how and when of regaining flexion. I got a small taste of doing it properly and on time, and let me tell you i did not know i could strike a ball so good. But i lost the feeling and havent gotten it back. Been working on it ever since.


    You two are confusing hip flexion and spine flexion.

    When a golfer bends to the ball, ,he bends at the hips ;thus his hips are going into flexion or flexing

    The spine on the other should be neither flexed nor extended..This is called a "neutral spine" ..A "neutral spine'" happens when the three spines ,the cervical(neck),the thoracic(middle) and the lumbar(lower) are aligned with the 3 normal curvatures of the spine present..A "neutral" spine" is the position of the spine where it is the most stable,the strongest ,the least susceptible to injury and with the most ability to rotate .Now obviously the spine is not rigid like a piece of metal,so some small amounts of flexing and extending will happen around this neutral position. Suggesting that the spine flexes or extends beyond these small amounts is contrary to spinal kinesiology and contradicts what medical professionals consistently suggest.

    The below link shows movements of spinal extension to neutral to spinal flexing.At :45 he has extended his spine,while at :56 :he has flexed it

    TPI has referred to the 2 extremes of extension and flexing as the "S" curve and the "C " curve





    [media=]
  • LambLamb LondonMembers Posts: 342 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #102
    Okay I finally understand the whole process a lot more, I finally found a UK instructor who talked about this on his website and hopefully we visit soon. it's not just moving the left shoulder down but circular.



    To quote his site he says:





    "The angle that we set at the address position is typically the angle of inclination that is maintained throughout the golf swing until somewhere near the finish. To achieve this the shoulders turn in a circle with the left shoulder moving downwards on the way back then the opposite movement on the way down with the right shoulder moving downwards whilst the body weight moves towards the target (this true for a right handed golfer and opposite for a left handed player).



    The issue I see and fix all the time is the shoulders turning too level during the down swing as the player tries to hit the ball (right shoulder moving across and not down). As the shoulders turn too level the golfers hips and weight tend to move backwards creating problems with strike and creating the slice. The level shoulders also create too much rotation at impact which will make the club swing across the ball.



    So what’s the solution? The shoulders need to turn in a circle. When the shoulders are turning too flat the player must exaggerate the opposite feelings I am about to explain in order to create a balanced shoulder movement"



    http://www.stephenpackergolf.com/2014/12/the-secrets-in-the-shoulder-turn/





    (I Used Manzellas pics to illustrate)



    6310233.png
  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    golfarb1 wrote:


    Rohlio wrote:


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
    Great description of extension. Once you understand what spine extension is, its pretty easy to do it properly. The hard part for me is the how and when of regaining flexion. I got a small taste of doing it properly and on time, and let me tell you i did not know i could strike a ball so good. But i lost the feeling and havent gotten it back. Been working on it ever since.


    You two are confusing hip flexion and spine flexion.

    When a golfer bends to the ball, ,he bends at the hips ;thus his hips are going into flexion or flexing

    The spine on the other should be neither flexed nor extended..This is called a "neutral spine" ..A "neutral spine'" happens when the three spines ,the cervical(neck),the thoracic(middle) and the lumbar(lower) are aligned with the 3 normal curvatures of the spine present..A "neutral" spine" is the position of the spine where it is the most stable,the strongest ,the least susceptible to injury and with the most ability to rotate .Now obviously the spine is not rigid like a piece of metal,so some small amounts of flexing and extending will happen around this neutral position. Suggesting that the spine flexes or extends beyond these small amounts is contrary to spinal kinesiology and contradicts what medical professionals consistently suggest.

    The below link shows movements of spinal extension to neutral to spinal flexing.At :45 he has extended his spine,while at :56 :he has flexed it

    TPI has referred to the 2 extremes of extension and flexing as the "S" curve and the "C " curve





    [media=]






    Appeal to authority:



    I have a masters in biomechanics and a doctorate in Physical Therapy and exclusively treat and publish on the spine and Axial column.... And NOOOOOO a neutral spine is not when the spine can rotate the most (that is utter bullocks and without a further discussion of coupled motion and the problems with Fryettes laws, we have no hope of arriving at that today)...further a Neutral spine is not even well defined within the literature on Spinal biomechanics.



    Hip and Spine Flexion as translated through the lumbopelvic complex are very often linked and will rely on way too many confounding factors to even be commented on in a specific golfer without significant 3d analysis. Any analysis of a golfer that looks at how flexed his trunk is and has sufficient measuring tools will show both hip and spine flexion to varying degrees.



    Clarification:



    I specifically said TRUNK flexion for a reason...this includes the lumbopelvic complex and it is indeed in flexion...how much SPINE flexion someonw has will be dependent on the golfer involved.



    Further:



    Nothing you said refutes my point. I never mentioned the spine once. The persons trunk is moving into and out of flexion and the golfer will move into and out of the components of knee, Femoracetabular, pelvic, Lumbar and thoracic extension and flexion in order to accomplish the physiologic movements that I mentioned.



    So please feel free to explain how your post clarifies the question asked by the poster who stated he didn't understand the concept of extension that was not addressed by my post.
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  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:

    golfarb1 wrote:


    Rohlio wrote:


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn⤙t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don⤙t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
    Great description of extension. Once you understand what spine extension is, its pretty easy to do it properly. The hard part for me is the how and when of regaining flexion. I got a small taste of doing it properly and on time, and let me tell you i did not know i could strike a ball so good. But i lost the feeling and havent gotten it back. Been working on it ever since.


    You two are confusing hip flexion and spine flexion.

    When a golfer bends to the ball, ,he bends at the hips ;thus his hips are going into flexion or flexing

    The spine on the other should be neither flexed nor extended..This is called a "neutral spine" ..A "neutral spine'" happens when the three spines ,the cervical(neck),the thoracic(middle) and the lumbar(lower) are aligned with the 3 normal curvatures of the spine present..A "neutral" spine" is the position of the spine where it is the most stable,the strongest ,the least susceptible to injury and with the most ability to rotate .Now obviously the spine is not rigid like a piece of metal,so some small amounts of flexing and extending will happen around this neutral position. Suggesting that the spine flexes or extends beyond these small amounts is contrary to spinal kinesiology and contradicts what medical professionals consistently suggest.

    The below link shows movements of spinal extension to neutral to spinal flexing.At :45 he has extended his spine,while at :56 :he has flexed it

    TPI has referred to the 2 extremes of extension and flexing as the "S" curve and the "C " curve





    [media=]






    Appeal to authority:



    I have a masters in biomechanics and a doctorate in Physical Therapy and exclusively treat and publish on the spine and Axial column.... And NOOOOOO a neutral spine is not when the spine can rotate the most (that is utter bullocks and without a further discussion of coupled motion and the problems with Fryettes laws, we have no hope of arriving at that today)...further a Neutral spine is not even well defined within the literature on Spinal biomechanics.



    Hip and Spine Flexion as translated through the lumbopelvic complex are very often linked and will rely on way too many confounding factors to even be commented on in a specific golfer without significant 3d analysis. Any analysis of a golfer that looks at how flexed his trunk is and has sufficient measuring tools will show both hip and spine flexion to varying degrees.



    Clarification:



    I specifically said TRUNK flexion for a reason...this includes the lumbopelvic complex and it is indeed in flexion...how much SPINE flexion someonw has will be dependent on the golfer involved.



    Further:



    Nothing you said refutes my point. I never mentioned the spine once. The persons trunk is moving into and out of flexion and the golfer will move into and out of the components of knee, Femoracetabular, pelvic, Lumbar and thoracic extension and flexion in order to accomplish the physiologic movements that I mentioned.



    So please feel free to explain how your post clarifies the question asked by the poster who stated he didn't understand the concept of extension that was not addressed by my post.






    Thats exactly why golf swing can be farely complicated. A good portion of the swing is controlled by postural muscles that we cannot command conciously (eg try to control segmental lumbopelvic motion/spinal movement with multifidus? No chance!). Swing can be simplified by focusing on feels and let our instinct sort out the rest of swing. Also it explains why we need to maintain our swing, practise is one part but our feel can lead to excessive flaws.
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    This question is for DLiver and I’m not picking on him at all. This is actually a question...and partial solution...for all of you.



    Let’s assume that you absolutely need this move and are setup to succeed in putting it in place.



    How long have you tried to implement this move?




    This is a great question. I was thinking about this earlier today then saw this post.



    Some new moves can feel difficult, like a mind and body hurdle. It doesn’t just feel different but it feels hard and like such a stretch - how the **** can I do that kind of feeling. Plus it maybe just doesn’t fit my current mental map of the swing and feels like an artificial appendage. Often, I will only try this sporadically. But I come back to it. And come back to it.



    Then all of a sudden it starts to make sense. Maybe other complementary moves have emerged that support it. Maybe the neural pathway gets a little more formed. Maybe doing a bunch of very slow motion swings gives me confidence I can do it. Something shifts because I have been chipping away at the idea/move - even if I had to take a side route to get there.



    A whole new pattern of the swing kind of falls into place and it isn’t just one isolated move but the whole interconnected system changes together.



    Persistence is key. Persistence is key. At the risk of repeating myself... persistence is key.



    This seems like a huge deal in learning.
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  • golfarb1golfarb1 Members Posts: 180 ✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #106
    Rohlio wrote:

    golfarb1 wrote:


    Rohlio wrote:


    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?
    Great description of extension. Once you understand what spine extension is, its pretty easy to do it properly. The hard part for me is the how and when of regaining flexion. I got a small taste of doing it properly and on time, and let me tell you i did not know i could strike a ball so good. But i lost the feeling and havent gotten it back. Been working on it ever since.


    You two are confusing hip flexion and spine flexion.

    When a golfer bends to the ball, ,he bends at the hips ;thus his hips are going into flexion or flexing

    The spine on the other should be neither flexed nor extended..This is called a "neutral spine" ..A "neutral spine'" happens when the three spines ,the cervical(neck),the thoracic(middle) and the lumbar(lower) are aligned with the 3 normal curvatures of the spine present..A "neutral" spine" is the position of the spine where it is the most stable,the strongest ,the least susceptible to injury and with the most ability to rotate .Now obviously the spine is not rigid like a piece of metal,so some small amounts of flexing and extending will happen around this neutral position. Suggesting that the spine flexes or extends beyond these small amounts is contrary to spinal kinesiology and contradicts what medical professionals consistently suggest.

    The below link shows movements of spinal extension to neutral to spinal flexing.At :45 he has extended his spine,while at :56 :he has flexed it

    TPI has referred to the 2 extremes of extension and flexing as the "S" curve and the "C " curve





    [media=]






    Appeal to authority:



    I have a masters in biomechanics and a doctorate in Physical Therapy and exclusively treat and publish on the spine and Axial column.... And NOOOOOO a neutral spine is not when the spine can rotate the most (that is utter bullocks and without a further discussion of coupled motion and the problems with Fryettes laws, we have no hope of arriving at that today)...further a Neutral spine is not even well defined within the literature on Spinal biomechanics.



    Hip and Spine Flexion as translated through the lumbopelvic complex are very often linked and will rely on way too many confounding factors to even be commented on in a specific golfer without significant 3d analysis. Any analysis of a golfer that looks at how flexed his trunk is and has sufficient measuring tools will show both hip and spine flexion to varying degrees.



    Clarification:



    I specifically said TRUNK flexion for a reason...this includes the lumbopelvic complex and it is indeed in flexion...how much SPINE flexion someonw has will be dependent on the golfer involved.



    Further:



    Nothing you said refutes my point. I never mentioned the spine once. The persons trunk is moving into and out of flexion and the golfer will move into and out of the components of knee, Femoracetabular, pelvic, Lumbar and thoracic extension and flexion in order to accomplish the physiologic movements that I mentioned.



    So please feel free to explain how your post clarifies the question asked by the poster who stated he didn't understand the concept of extension that was not addressed by my post.
    I

    Yes,you did not mention the spine specifically ,so i apologize for that .

    The lumbar spine and the pelvis are fused together so it is obviously true that they are linked,When a golfer flexes his hips his pelvis will also tilt ,BUT because of the linkage mentioned above ,so will the lumbar spine and his entire spine ..I do not see why there should be any flexion /extension at the spine beyond a small amount



    In defining a neutral spine I used 2 components,alignment and curvature .Which one of these two are questionable or are there additional components.

    Which spine position is the best for rotation and what are the problems with Freyettes laws.You can PM this to me if it is beyond the scope of this discussion.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    airjammer wrote:



    This question is for DLiver and I'm not picking on him at all. This is actually a question...and partial solution...for all of you.



    Let's assume that you absolutely need this move and are setup to succeed in putting it in place.



    How long have you tried to implement this move?




    Well I did it for 6 months after seeing Dan. Without Dan being actually there to remind me to get my hands deeper and my shaft more vertical this move throws my hand out too far towards the target line.



    My main issues are being dumped under in transition but with my shoulders spinning open. This move is so "powerful" it instantly fixed the dumped under part but couple that with open shoulders..equals shanks. That was with my left shoulder was barely staying down.



    And that is why it's not talked about much. For the vast majority of golfers it exacerbates the main flaw in their swing..over the top.



    For me personally keeping my back to the target is a far better swing thought for me. I actually keep my left shoulder down better but my hand down get thrown out towards the target line as much.




    This makes sense, except it's actually not my experience, and I am the classic OTT early extender. For whatever reason, this lowering/flexion/whatever its called motion just makes shallowing the club feel more intuitive. Actually, I sort of tumbled onto the need to do this flexion as a result of the shallowing move - as my hands moved more out than down, I needed to counter it by moving my butt father from the ball so I wouldn't hit all hosel rockets.
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Rohlio wrote:



    Ha! I figured I was somehow doing it - I just didn’t understand the definition. These related moves/feels all seem to be part of a package that work together.



    Plus I don’t understand the def of extend on backswing. I keep reading about it and tried to look it up but just got confused.




    Pretty simple concept.



    Flexion is the opposite of extension.



    Stand in address position over the golf ball you are bent forward at the waist a certain amount. This is your amount of trunk flexion.





    As you move to your backswing you must decrease this amount of flexion or your head would end up way behind the ball, so you extend your trunk. It is the same move as standing up from your address position, but it is hard to notice because you are also rotating and sidebending to the left at the same time.



    You must then reestablish trunk flexion during the downswing while you rotate to the left and sidebending to the right or you are going to swing miles over the top of the ball



    Make sense now?




    Yes, thank you. (And reading the subsequent debate just confused me. So I stopped trying to add anything more than this to my understanding.)
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  • Swisstrader98Swisstrader98 Members Posts: 3,559 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Oct 7, 2018 #109
    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don’t over think it, don’t over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you’re driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It’s truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,812 ClubWRX
    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don’t over think it, don’t over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you’re driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It’s truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol




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  • johnrobisonjohnrobison In endless pursuit of P6 Members Posts: 740 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don't over think it, don't over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you're driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It's truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol
    Wow, indeed
  • Ghost of SneadGhost of Snead Members Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don't over think it, don't over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you're driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It's truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol
    Wow, indeed




    At least he didn't say let gravity fire that right shoulder down ...
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  • ebrasmus21ebrasmus21 Serial Shanker CAMembers Posts: 5,748 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don't over think it, don't over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you're driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It's truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol
    Wow, indeed




    At least he didn't say let gravity fire that right shoulder down ...




    Wait. You mean that’s not a thing?
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  • LambLamb LondonMembers Posts: 342 ✭✭✭✭


    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don't over think it, don't over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you're driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It's truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol




    LMAO... Yeah the right shoulder going down is going to make the left go down? Never laughed so much
  • jromes23jromes23 Members Posts: 34
    Lamb wrote:

    jromes23 wrote:


    Lead shoulder actually should always move up and out




    Rubbish




    You’re right, I wrote that matter-of-factly in a rushed post. I do firmly believe the lead shoulder should be doing that from the very beginning though up until impact. I hope to share a few videos soon on this.
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Wow, just wow!



    Only on WRX would people over engineer what is quite possibly the easiest and one of the most powerful moves in golf...right shoulder down, not around!



    Try doing it the WRONG way first. On your forward swing, turn your right shoulder around your spine. Don't over think it, don't over do it, just turn your shoulder. Simple. Simple, but not what we want.



    Now the RIGHT way. Start your forward swing but instead of turning your right shoulder, fire that right shoulder DOWN, not around. Almost like you're driving the tip of your right shoulder into the ground.



    It's truly that easy. No need to even watch YouTube video on it. Lol
    Wow, indeed




    At least he didn't say let gravity fire that right shoulder down ...




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  • Buckets2Buckets2 Members Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    So the front shoulder goes down and starts to go slightly around/open before starting to go up-around once the hands are near the rear thigh?
  • jromes23jromes23 Members Posts: 34




    Just a short clip done indoors since it’s cold here. All I’m trying to show is how my lead shoulder works up and out from the very beginning. Hopefully I can get some outdoor stuff done tomorrow.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    jromes23 wrote:






    Just a short clip done indoors since it’s cold here. All I’m trying to show is how my lead shoulder works up and out from the very beginning. Hopefully I can get some outdoor stuff done tomorrow.




    The best players absolutely don’t have lead shoulder work up and “out” in transition.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Go_Time wrote:


    So the front shoulder goes down and starts to go slightly around/open before starting to go up-around once the hands are near the rear thigh?




    Correct. Starts working up just after p5, so a bit before hands get right thigh.

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