New TP5 and TP5X

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  • arzee2arzee2 Members Posts: 224 ✭✭
    Hammer22 wrote:

    Stanks wrote:


    I think a lot of this thread went severely off topic. No hard feelings about the 18 cap and ability to understand golf ball reactions etc. it’s all good.

    I personally know a lot of fantastic golfers that play single digits cap and borderline scratch and am asked a lot of questions from them for golf tech, swing questions, etc etc. i know the game extremely well. No need to prove it to anyone.



    In other news, my local spot has been having trouble keeping these in stock (TP5 and X). I’m in sunny San Diego and obviously TM HQ is in Carlsbad about 25 mins outta the city. Looks like the reception to the new balls is quite warm. Granted, the past month has been all rain and “bad weather”. The golfers down here consider a drizzle to be like a hurricane.




    For your index, try the ‘18 TM project (a) - it’s basically a 3-layer version of the TP5 and one of the biggest sleeper balls out there. If you hunt around, they can be scored for around $25 dozen. Paying $40-50 for “premium” balls that won’t make a difference for you is silly. I’m a mid single digit and I love the (a) - plenty long and fantastic spin, plus they just feel great.




    I think worrying about how someone else spends their money is silly. Maybe we could keep it on topic. "New TP5 & TP5X"
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    TP5X
  • StanksStanks Everything I post is confrontational Members Posts: 1,284 ✭✭
    arzee2 wrote:

    Hammer22 wrote:

    Stanks wrote:


    I think a lot of this thread went severely off topic. No hard feelings about the 18 cap and ability to understand golf ball reactions etc. it’s all good.

    I personally know a lot of fantastic golfers that play single digits cap and borderline scratch and am asked a lot of questions from them for golf tech, swing questions, etc etc. i know the game extremely well. No need to prove it to anyone.



    In other news, my local spot has been having trouble keeping these in stock (TP5 and X). I’m in sunny San Diego and obviously TM HQ is in Carlsbad about 25 mins outta the city. Looks like the reception to the new balls is quite warm. Granted, the past month has been all rain and “bad weather”. The golfers down here consider a drizzle to be like a hurricane.




    For your index, try the ‘18 TM project (a) - it’s basically a 3-layer version of the TP5 and one of the biggest sleeper balls out there. If you hunt around, they can be scored for around $25 dozen. Paying $40-50 for “premium” balls that won’t make a difference for you is silly. I’m a mid single digit and I love the (a) - plenty long and fantastic spin, plus they just feel great.




    I think worrying about how someone else spends their money is silly. Maybe we could keep it on topic. "New TP5 & TP5X"




    Forums equals people complaining about stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. But I play off 18 so I have no idea what I’m talking about
  • Hammer22Hammer22 Members Posts: 474 ✭✭
    arzee2 wrote:


    I think worrying about how someone else spends their money is silly. Maybe we could keep it on topic. "New TP5 & TP5X"




    Worrying? No. Couldn't care less. Simply making a 'helpful' suggestion, since people actually come to forums in order to give and receive them.


    Stanks wrote:


    Forums equals people complaining about stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. But I play off 18 so I have no idea what I'm talking about




    Well, as an 18, you are shooting in the 90's (and above), so a ball that's $20 or $50 per dozen isn't going to make a difference. Whatever. As you already stated, “...a handicap doesn’t mean s*** when judging performance...”. It is WRX after all, so everyone plays muscle-back blades with X-100's tipped 1". People, again, actually do like to chip in with suggestions that may actually help others out, but suit yourself.
    nflam-button.png
  • StanksStanks Everything I post is confrontational Members Posts: 1,284 ✭✭
    Hammer22 wrote:

    arzee2 wrote:


    I think worrying about how someone else spends their money is silly. Maybe we could keep it on topic. "New TP5 & TP5X"




    Worrying? No. Couldn't care less. Simply making a 'helpful' suggestion, since people actually come to forums in order to give and receive them.


    Stanks wrote:


    Forums equals people complaining about stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. But I play off 18 so I have no idea what I'm talking about




    Well, as an 18, you are shooting in the 90's (and above), so a ball that's $20 or $50 per dozen isn't going to make a difference. Whatever. As you already stated, “...a handicap doesn’t mean s*** when judging performance...”. It is WRX after all, so everyone plays muscle-back blades with X-100's tipped 1". People, again, actually do like to chip in with suggestions that may actually help others out, but suit yourself.




    You’re inserting foot in mouth. Satirical comments don’t exactly resonate in these threads. And, I don’t pay that much for TP5s
  • swizbeatzswizbeatz Members Posts: 5,631 ✭✭
    It’s official guys, I hit 8 balls OB yesterday with the Pro V and only 6 today with the TP5x! This ball is so much straighter than anything I’ve used in the past.
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  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members Posts: 2,026 ✭✭
    Stanks wrote:


    Stanks wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:


    Early reports were that this ball was amazing. Actual testing says that there is little to no improvement over past years. What made Rickie switch?




    The ball is amazing in comparison to the PROv1. Anyone that knows me know how outspoken I am against the prov1 line. A 3 piece ball isn't worth the price they're selling at. Same with the V1x. The taylormade ball is cheaper and reacts better.



    It is all about the $¤£¥. I think, when the rest of my ball stash is gone (8 dozen RZN platinum, 1 dozen Snell, 3 TP5/x, 2 dozen KSIG on and on) then I'll go MTB X. Cheap and performs. By then, TP5 will be on sale




    No offense but if your handicap is really a 15 I don't think any ball will make much of a difference. You can really only see the difference in these balls when you strike it solid and mainly from 120 and in (especially around the greens). If you gave a 0 handicap 6 balls of each PV1 and TP5X and watched them hit different shots around the green you could easily see and also hear a very big difference between these balls. I have tried for years to beat the V1 and V1X and can't seem to ever do it.




    I'm more off 18 right now actually. Fortunately for you, I can and do feel a difference. My score doesn't constitute the ability to see how a ball performs for me. I've played every style premium ball in the last 4-5 years. Yeah, I can feel a difference and see a difference.



    I'll go ahead and say that most of the balls used on tour are because of money and continued performance. That's just how it is. Taylormade might be paying rickie more. Bridgestone is paying tiger absurd amounts. Rory said he loved platinum RZN tour or black, which was produced by Bridgestone, but oh wait, he doesn't use that because TM pays him more.



    Long story short, a handicap doesn't mean s*** when judging performance. I'll tell people to buy this ball over titleist prov1 and x all day every day.




    I'm sorry but if you are an 18 handicap you are not making consistent enough solid contact to tell a difference. I would argue that most scratch or better players scores would not change over a 10 round average between the TP5 and ProV1. The differences between all these balls is very minor but at the end of the day can lead to a 3ft par putt versus a 4ft par putt which very well could be a stroke difference in score. Again this one foot difference is assuming you strike it well, if your chip it thin or fat it won't make a difference. I think the sound and feel is what changes the most between the balls and that just comes down to a comfort level.



    Of all the premium balls I tested this year the only very obvious noticeable difference I found (other then feel or sound) was the TP5 excessive spin on full wedges. Basically all the other balls have slight differences that really are not going to make or break you over a 10 round average. The TP5 I found that I have to play a lot of dead hand/ knock down wedge shots or account for the spin.


    By that logic , an 18 index may benefit MORE from a ball as feel and sound could give them the confidence and confront to play better, to where a scratch golfer as you say may only see 1 stroke per round difference.



    Years ago the B330-RX was such a good ball for me (and still is) and now the XV (since the 2017 version hit the market) are better for my game. I hover between a 10-13 index over the last couple years and some balls just don’t make me feel good on feedback and response that I like. If the ball is too mushy , it changes how I release the club mentally and can change my scoring average quickly.



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  • StanksStanks Everything I post is confrontational Members Posts: 1,284 ✭✭
    swizbeatz wrote:


    It’s official guys, I hit 8 balls OB yesterday with the Pro V and only 6 today with the TP5x! This ball is so much straighter than anything I’ve used in the past.




    Guy!!! Right?! Preach!!!
  • ShooterMcDabbinShooterMcDabbin LongmontMembers Posts: 25 ✭✭
    Played the new TP5x last week and was very impressed with the feel, flight, and how it cut through 15mph winds despite my high launch and spin off the tee. Wound up doing the B3G1 deal. Looking forward to gaming this ball for a long time.

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  • DrudershDrudersh ClubWRX Posts: 2,931 ClubWRX
    Am I still the only one finding the new TP5 to spin like a top and get eaten up in the wind???



    -Perplexed in PA
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  • FAbbFAbb Members Posts: 15,964 ✭✭
    Drudersh wrote:


    Am I still the only one finding the new TP5 to spin like a top and get eaten up in the wind???



    -Perplexed in PA




    I haven't hit the new version, but I found that same thing with the original tp5.
  • trackcoach13trackcoach13 Members Posts: 974 ✭✭
    FAbb wrote:

    Drudersh wrote:


    Am I still the only one finding the new TP5 to spin like a top and get eaten up in the wind???



    -Perplexed in PA




    I haven't hit the new version, but I found that same thing with the original tp5.




    If you are already generating high spin on full shots this would be a bad ball for you on a windy day. The TP5 is a very spinny ball on iron shots.
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  • GolfTurkeyGolfTurkey Members Posts: 572 ✭✭
    edited Mar 7, 2019 3:41am #553


    Played the new TP5x last week and was very impressed with the feel, flight, and how it cut through 15mph winds despite my high launch and spin off the tee. Wound up doing the B3G1 deal. Looking forward to gaming this ball for a long time.




    How were iron shots? I'm thinking of changing from the ProV1x to TP5x because my iron shots are getting chewed up by wind.
  • d.m.gannond.m.gannon Members Posts: 140 ✭✭
    How does the compare to the Q-Star Tour in terms of launch. Looking for a ball which launches a little bit higher and spins a bit less.
  • 8overpar8overpar Members Posts: 206 ✭✭
    GolfTurkey wrote:



    Played the new TP5x last week and was very impressed with the feel, flight, and how it cut through 15mph winds despite my high launch and spin off the tee. Wound up doing the B3G1 deal. Looking forward to gaming this ball for a long time.




    How were iron shots? I'm thinking of changing from the ProV1x to TP5x because my iron shots are getting chewed up by wind.


    I did the same ball switch. Cross wind shots were night and day. I take my normal shot 95% of the time on anything below say honestly 15mph. 15+ I work against it, that's my game. With the ProV1X in play I really had to figure out how much I was willing to hang it out off the green and hope I flushed the contact. Straight into a breeze/wind is kryptonite for me no matter what. TP5X helps my confidence. I can't hit a knockdown for a million bucks and if I do luck out, it's turning at 10k RPM with a 7 iron which is balloon territory.
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  • cristphotocristphoto Members Posts: 3,345 ✭✭
    I’ve played Acushnet branded balls most of my life. Started with the Club Special back in the early 60’s, moved through the DT, Professional, then the Prov1 for the last 20 years. No longer. In the past Titleist had better quality and maybe technology but everyone else has caught up or surpassed them. I currently play the 2018 TP5X ball and love the performance. I recall Titleist ads from years back saying they were number one and nobody is ever paid to play their ball. No longer - they pay the pros. I’m guessing this is to stay #1 in the weekly ball count. If they loose that you may see tons of defections to the competition.
  • Frankensteins MonsterFrankensteins Monster Members Posts: 6,683 ✭✭
    mmack067 wrote:


    mmack067 wrote:



    I asked this earlier, but need more clarification. I currently use Pro V1. The X has too much side spin for me off the driver which is odd considering the X is supposed to be lower driver spin if memory serves. Which TP5 should I be looking into then?




    1) there's no such thing as side spin. There is spin, and spin axis tilt. It's can't spin in two different directions at the same time.

    2) driver spin is largely similar across balls so you won't see a ton of difference from the TP5 to X with a driver.



    Out of curiosity, why do you think the X spins too much for you off the driver?


    That's just the performance I get from them. When I use the V1X my fades have way too much spin and are offline by quite a bit. V1 and I have far more control, can go after it much harder, and my misses are not in the same realm as V1X.




    There's always the chance that the X doesn't spin enough for you and that's causing your flight to become a bit unstable on misses, although I wouldn't expect it so much with a fade pattern. Best bet is to get on a launch monitor and get some numbers with the various balls and go from there.




    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,386 ✭✭

    mmack067 wrote:


    mmack067 wrote:



    I asked this earlier, but need more clarification. I currently use Pro V1. The X has too much side spin for me off the driver which is odd considering the X is supposed to be lower driver spin if memory serves. Which TP5 should I be looking into then?




    1) there's no such thing as side spin. There is spin, and spin axis tilt. It's can't spin in two different directions at the same time.

    2) driver spin is largely similar across balls so you won't see a ton of difference from the TP5 to X with a driver.



    Out of curiosity, why do you think the X spins too much for you off the driver?


    That's just the performance I get from them. When I use the V1X my fades have way too much spin and are offline by quite a bit. V1 and I have far more control, can go after it much harder, and my misses are not in the same realm as V1X.




    There's always the chance that the X doesn't spin enough for you and that's causing your flight to become a bit unstable on misses, although I wouldn't expect it so much with a fade pattern. Best bet is to get on a launch monitor and get some numbers with the various balls and go from there.




    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.




    With the V1 and V1x, it becomes more complicated as many people who have tested the balls on launch monitor find that the V1x still spins less than the V1, despite Titleist claiming the opposite.



    A while back companies went away from trying to tell people what swing speeds they needed for certain balls. Only guessing here, but my guess is that obviously was not good for sales. Only a very small percentage of the market swing faster than 105. But I would think that swing speed still comes in play when talking about how much different balls spin.



    If you’re not compressing a certain ball enough into the core with your driver, then how does the ball know you’re hitting a driver and not an iron that you want to spin?
  • chris975dchris975d GeorgiaClubWRX Posts: 1,919 ClubWRX
    Maximilian wrote:




    With the V1 and V1x, it becomes more complicated as many people who have tested the balls on launch monitor find that the V1x still spins less than the V1, despite Titleist claiming the opposite.



    A while back companies went away from trying to tell people what swing speeds they needed for certain balls. Only guessing here, but my guess is that obviously was not good for sales. Only a very small percentage of the market swing faster than 105. But I would think that swing speed still comes in play when talking about how much different balls spin.



    If you're not compressing a certain ball enough into the core with your driver, then how does the ball know you're hitting a driver and not an iron that you want to spin?




    Oddly enough, that marketing by swingspeed was the key thing that drove Bridgestone ball sales here in the US to their highest point/highest marketshare. The last CEO got away from that, and lost all the gains they had made. Now that the new CEO (and coincidentally enough, the head marketing guy back when they did sell based off of swingspeed) is back, it's not surprising that the first product launched under his leadership is the new e12...and is specifically marketed/separated by swingspeed. So selling balls in the US based off of swingspeed will work, as long as it's geared toward the average golfer. I see firsthand everyday at how they have "analysis paralysis" in trying to choose from the multitude of golf balls on the market now.
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  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,386 ✭✭
    chris975d wrote:

    Maximilian wrote:




    With the V1 and V1x, it becomes more complicated as many people who have tested the balls on launch monitor find that the V1x still spins less than the V1, despite Titleist claiming the opposite.



    A while back companies went away from trying to tell people what swing speeds they needed for certain balls. Only guessing here, but my guess is that obviously was not good for sales. Only a very small percentage of the market swing faster than 105. But I would think that swing speed still comes in play when talking about how much different balls spin.



    If you're not compressing a certain ball enough into the core with your driver, then how does the ball know you're hitting a driver and not an iron that you want to spin?




    Oddly enough, that marketing by swingspeed was the key thing that drove Bridgestone ball sales here in the US to their highest point/highest marketshare. The last CEO got away from that, and lost all the gains they had made. Now that the new CEO (and coincidentally enough, the head marketing guy back when they did sell based off of swingspeed) is back, it's not surprising that the first product launched under his leadership is the new e12...and is specifically marketed/separated by swingspeed. So selling balls in the US based off of swingspeed will work, as long as it's geared toward the average golfer. I see firsthand everyday at how they have "analysis paralysis" in trying to choose from the multitude of golf balls on the market now.




    Oh I definitely agree that it was a smart move by Bridgestone to make a tour ball for average swing speeds! But they may very well have lost a lot of their market when the other manufacturers jumped on board saying that their balls are great for any swing speeds.



    I’m really no expert in golf ball designs, but logic would tell me that a fourth layer adds spin to irons since it’s not as easy to completely compress, thus, a three piece ball is easier to compress to the core making it easier to spin less. BUT, a higher compression ball might have the ability to create higher ball speeds if you actually can compress it, and maybe that’s why some high swing speed players actually get less spin with the X? Maybe, I don’t know.



    There’s good players on YouTube and members here that are finding the X to spin less after testing on monitor. Personally I can’t really tell. I just know they feel different.
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 407 ✭✭


    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.




    Some of the marketing people from Titleist have implied this, but people who have tested it and people (Ian at TXG) who have talked to the actual ball people at Titelist dispute it. The Pro V1x launches slightly higher and spins slightly less off the irons. They have almost identical characteristics off the driver. And they should have very near identical spin near the green on partial shots. The biggest difference between the two balls is actually feel.
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  • chris975dchris975d GeorgiaClubWRX Posts: 1,919 ClubWRX
    arbeck wrote:



    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.




    Some of the marketing people from Titleist have implied this, but people who have tested it and people (Ian at TXG) who have talked to the actual ball people at Titelist dispute it. The Pro V1x launches slightly higher and spins slightly less off the irons. They have almost identical characteristics off the driver. And they should have very near identical spin near the green on partial shots. The biggest difference between the two balls is actually feel.




    It's not implied, Titleist specifically said it here. The senior manager of golf ball development, along with the golf ball R&D rep. The ProV1x used to spin less than the ProV1 at intro, and now the ProV1x is the higher spinning ball.



    https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2019/02/26/know-the-differences-titleist-pro-v1-pro-v1x-golf-ball-equipment.html
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  • RacineBoxerRacineBoxer Members Posts: 838 ✭✭
    arbeck wrote:



    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.




    Some of the marketing people from Titleist have implied this, but people who have tested it and people (Ian at TXG) who have talked to the actual ball people at Titelist dispute it. The Pro V1x launches slightly higher and spins slightly less off the irons. They have almost identical characteristics off the driver. And they should have very near identical spin near the green on partial shots. The biggest difference between the two balls is actually feel.




    When Rick Shiels did his test the ProV1x spun slightly more on the 7iron and the 100 yard wedge shot.
  • MaximilianMaximilian Members Posts: 1,386 ✭✭

    arbeck wrote:



    Turns out, Pro V1x is the higher spinning Pro V model. A few years back it switched. It's a hight launching higher spinning ball. TP5=Pro V1x -- TP5x=Pro V1 in terms of spin.




    Some of the marketing people from Titleist have implied this, but people who have tested it and people (Ian at TXG) who have talked to the actual ball people at Titelist dispute it. The Pro V1x launches slightly higher and spins slightly less off the irons. They have almost identical characteristics off the driver. And they should have very near identical spin near the green on partial shots. The biggest difference between the two balls is actually feel.




    When Rick Shiels did his test the ProV1x spun slightly more on the 7iron and the 100 yard wedge shot. https://www.youtube....lOSfYSOE&t=554s


    He also found the V1 to have "much higher ball flight" compared to the X, which goes against the marketing. It's so hard to know what is strategic marketing or how much peoples different swings come into play. Unfortunately I think it all just comes down to trial and error with finding what ball works the best for you. In a blind test, I'm sure I would never be able to tell much difference part from feel.
  • OldAndLameOldAndLame Members Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Stanks wrote:

    Holy Moses wrote:


    Early reports were that this ball was amazing. Actual testing says that there is little to no improvement over past years. What made Rickie switch?




    The ball is amazing in comparison to the PROv1. Anyone that knows me know how outspoken I am against the prov1 line. A 3 piece ball isn't worth the price they're selling at. Same with the V1x. The taylormade ball is cheaper and reacts better.



    It is all about the $€£¥. I think, when the rest of my ball stash is gone (8 dozen RZN platinum, 1 dozen Snell, 3 TP5/x, 2 dozen KSIG on and on) then I'll go MTB X. Cheap and performs. By then, TP5 will be on sale




    By then I would be 10 years older...
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  • kiddockiddoc Members Posts: 608 ✭✭
    15mph winds in Scottsdale yesterday



    2018 V’s 2019 X



    Both good, but 2019 stayed on a rope.

    Well struck shots resisted gusts and side to side variation visibly better.





  • DrudershDrudersh ClubWRX Posts: 2,931 ClubWRX

    FAbb wrote:

    Drudersh wrote:


    Am I still the only one finding the new TP5 to spin like a top and get eaten up in the wind???



    -Perplexed in PA




    I haven't hit the new version, but I found that same thing with the original tp5.




    If you are already generating high spin on full shots this would be a bad ball for you on a windy day. The TP5 is a very spinny ball on iron shots.




    I’m not a high spin player with the irons. I played a few holes with a friend who isn’t particularly high spin either. We both hit shots with the new TP5 and the 2017 TP5 tonight and he saw the same thing I did. Shots he hit well fell out of the sky into the wind (which was a light breeze) with the new version while the 2017 was excellent into the breeze.
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  • Natural1Natural1 Members Posts: 93 ✭✭
    I'm about 5 rounds in with the 2019 TP5x. Been alternating it during those rounds with the 2017 version.

    So far, performance-wise vs. the 2017 ball I'm not really seeing any noticeable differences. Winter ground conditions aren't the best for comparisons though, so that may change.

    It probably does feel a tiny bit firmer but not enough to worry about, and durability may be slightly improved. Neither of those is night-and-day vs the old ball, and it's definitely still not as durable as the 2017 Pro V1x.



    Still a great performing ball!
  • bladehunterbladehunter Rain rain go the hell away ! south carolinaMembers Posts: 26,673 ✭✭
    I’ve been testing the new tp5x and the 19 v1x. Very much the same off driver. Irons , I just prefer the v1x over the tp5x. I guess it’s spin. The 5x just doesn’t want to turn like my eye sees a shot. I guess if you played a wide open course with straight shots it wouldn’t matter. I still have a couple sleeves left so I’m not done yet. But not blown away by the tp5x . It’s a good ball but so is the 19 v1x. Much more improvement from 17-19 v1x than from last tp5x to the new one in my opinion. ( tested both side by side ).
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21 ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-pw  Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • MattyMacMattyMac Members Posts: 7 ✭✭
    So how would either of these two compare to the Wilson Staff FG tour ball?
  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,307 ClubWRX
    MattyMac wrote:


    So how would either of these two compare to the Wilson Staff FG tour ball?


    If the TP5's were at the top of the page in a performance ranking... Way down towards the bottom of that page would be the FG ball.
    Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"
    Cobra F8 5-6 Fwy at 18.5° Stiff
    Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
    X2 Hot 4_-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
    Ping Forged 52°, ES 56º and ES 60º
    Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.5"
    MCC Align Midsize
    Moving to the bench:
    Jazz Bear Cat 3 wd Aerotech Stiff
    Vokey SM2 52º cc
    Scotty X7M Dual 38"
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