Hot summer days with clubs left in car, epoxy compromised?

GimmieHendrixGimmieHendrix Unregistered Posts: 153
Just curious what the club experts say about that. We golfed the hottest day on record for our city this year, 100 degrees. The car was basically melting when I got back, that got me thinking about this. We spend plenty on clubs then leave them in car on hot day where it likely routinely reaches well over 200 degrees in there, isn't that right about where club head epoxy breaks down?



So the two questions for the experts are:



1. Are we compromising our clubs leaving in the car on hot days?

2. If the epoxy connecting the head to the shaft heats up and then cools back down (without any shifting in the joint) does that result in compromised energy transfer?



Thanks! image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Comments

  • FlopperFlopper Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    I forgot which magazine did the test but they tested this exact thing and they found that the heat does not do anything to the epoxy. I think they left the clubs in the trunk on a hot day and it didn’t affect playability
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,342 ✭✭
    The inside of the car does not reach 200F. More like 140, even on a hot 100F day. Some epoxies may get a little soft at these kinds of temps but as soon as the clubs cool off the strength returns.
    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S (i200 backups)
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,222 ClubWRX


    Just curious what the club experts say about that. We golfed the hottest day on record for our city this year, 100 degrees. The car was basically melting when I got back, that got me thinking about this. We spend plenty on clubs then leave them in car on hot day where it likely routinely reaches well over 200 degrees in there, isn't that right about where club head epoxy breaks down?



    So the two questions for the experts are:



    1. Are we compromising our clubs leaving in the car on hot days?

    2. If the epoxy connecting the head to the shaft heats up and then cools back down (without any shifting in the joint) does that result in compromised energy transfer?



    Thanks! image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />


    Shouldn't you be shoveling snow right about now instead of worrying about hot trump temperatures?



    Unless crappy epoxy was used, there will be no issues.
    Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"
    Cobra F8 5-6 Fwy at 18.5° Stiff
    Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
    X2 Hot 4_-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
    Ping Forged 52°, ES 56º and ES 60º
    Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.5"
    MCC Align Midsize
    Moving to the bench:
    Jazz Bear Cat 3 wd Aerotech Stiff
    Vokey SM2 52º cc
    Scotty X7M Dual 38"
  • wcbjrwcbjr Members Posts: 2,789 ✭✭
    Texas resident here with 110* outdoor temps, no issues, ever. But...rubber grips don't seem to like it much over time.
  • DaveGoodrichDaveGoodrich Members Posts: 991 ✭✭
    My clubs never leave my trunk except when I am playing. I live in inland SoCal where the temps regularly reach 110* in the summer. I've never had an issue. It doesn't get nearly as hot in the trunk as it does in the passenger compartment because of the greenhouse effect raising temperatures above what can occur in a closed trunk, but I still don't think you could get to temps that break down the epoxy.
    Titleist 917D3 w/YS-6+
    Taylormade V-steel 15* w/YS-6+ FW
    Titleist 909h 17* and 21* w/YS-hybrid
    Adams dHy 24* w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Adams XTD Forged 6 (28*) - PW (48*) w/Aldila RIP Tour 115 (bent to 5* loft gaps)
    Vokey SM4 TVD 50M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 56S w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 60M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #5
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,221 ✭✭
    I might actually be concerned about the minuscule expansion and contraction that occurs with wild temperature swings over 100’s of cycles. Perhaps it’s bad for the epoxy bond.



    When I lived in Palm Springs I would never leave my clubs in the trunk on a regular basis. 110 in the day and 70 at night. I really have no idea if it would actually matter or not but I just didn’t do it.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • Sparky14Sparky14 Members Posts: 354 ✭✭
    It's happened to me a few times in those beautiful 120* sunny Phoenix days.
  • DaveGoodrichDaveGoodrich Members Posts: 991 ✭✭
    Sparky14 wrote:


    It's happened to me a few times in those beautiful 120* sunny Phoenix days.




    What's happened to you? Epoxy broke down? Details please.
    Titleist 917D3 w/YS-6+
    Taylormade V-steel 15* w/YS-6+ FW
    Titleist 909h 17* and 21* w/YS-hybrid
    Adams dHy 24* w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Adams XTD Forged 6 (28*) - PW (48*) w/Aldila RIP Tour 115 (bent to 5* loft gaps)
    Vokey SM4 TVD 50M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 56S w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 60M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #5
  • Golfer4LifeGolfer4Life “Don’t bother me with your pettiness” Lake Placid, N.Y. Whiteface G.C.ClubWRX Posts: 2,292 ✭✭
    I never leave my clubs in the car. Are you craaazy? Lol...
    PING 400 Max and a Bag full of PXG’s.......
    Non Titleist Cameron Welded Neck 35/330g SC 009
    “Check your Ego at the Club House and Play the Correct Tees”
  • GimmieHendrixGimmieHendrix Unregistered Posts: 153
    Awesome info, thanks to all. So in theory possible but in practice not likely enough to be concerned. Rodger.


    More like 140, even on a hot 100F day




    My bad. Not sure what I was thinking. You are 100% correct.
  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey Members Posts: 393 ✭✭
    edited Oct 11, 2018 #12
    I would venture a guess that a hot car is the most common storage location for the clubs of avid golfers (I know it is for me). If this was a terribly common problem, we'd all know about it empirically instead of speculating about it here.
  • HondabuffHondabuff Members Posts: 1,482 ✭✭
    4 years ago I took a trip to visit friends in Phoenix and left my clubs in the trunk for the first few days of the rental. Temps were 110*outside. We got to the range at Dinosaur Mountain and my 7 and 8 iron had both heads twist. It was kinda tough not playing with those 2 clubs all day. Pretty sure it was 3M DP-810 I was using at the time and the hot Desert sun did soften up the glue.
    Titleist TS2 9.5* Aldila Rogue Silver 125msi 60 TX
    Titleist 915F 15* Aldila Rogue Silver 110 60X
    Titleist 816 H2 Aldila Rogue Silver 110 85X
    Titleist 716 AP2 Project X 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM4 50/54/58 Project X 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Futura 6M
    Titleist Staff Stand Bag
    Titleist AVX
    Bushnell Tour Z6
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,342 ✭✭
    Hondabuff wrote:


    4 years ago I took a trip to visit friends in Phoenix and left my clubs in the trunk for the first few days of the rental. Temps were 110*outside. We got to the range at Dinosaur Mountain and my 7 and 8 iron had both heads twist. It was kinda tough not playing with those 2 clubs all day. Pretty sure it was 3M DP-810 I was using at the time and the hot Desert sun did soften up the glue.




    DP-810 does soften from heat more so than epoxies like DP-420 and 460. I agree with not using that stuff in extreme temp situations. I use it regularly but I don't store my clubs in the car and I don't play when it's super hot outside.
    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S (i200 backups)
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • mcs4mcs4 South FloridaMembers Posts: 650 ✭✭
    I live in South Florida. A little while back, my clubs "lived" in my trunk for 5+ years because I had a one-bedroom apartment with nowhere else to put them. I didn't have any problems with epoxy. It is at least possible that the heat contributed to the grips breaking down more quickly, although I can't say that with much confidence as I tend to put wear on grips fairly quickly regardless of whether I keep the clubs in the trunk.



    I have had issues with weaker glue in other items melting, such as a pair of gym shoes and a sunglasses case that apparently had an inner plastic later glued into the outer shell.
    Cobra King F7 (Kuro Kage Silver TiNi DC 60, stiff)
    Cobra AMP 4w (Comp CZ)
    Mizuno MP-H4 3 iron (Aldila Tour Green 85)
    Mizuno MP-H4 4 iron (Steelfiber 95)
    Mizuno MP-25 5-PW (Steelfiber 110)
    Ping i E1, 50 deg. (Recoil 110)
    Nike Engage 56 deg. (Recoil 95)
    Nike Engage 59 deg. (Recoil 95)
  • Sparky14Sparky14 Members Posts: 354 ✭✭

    Sparky14 wrote:


    It's happened to me a few times in those beautiful 120* sunny Phoenix days.




    What's happened to you? Epoxy broke down? Details please.




    Correct, epoxy got hot enough to allow slight head movement. A couple of times it happened to new club builds, so that is not shocking. However, a couple of times it happened to clubs that I had played for a couple of years.
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,121 ✭✭
    Shouldnt matter, I would think clubs would come with some sort of warning you couldn't leave them in a car.
  • DaveGoodrichDaveGoodrich Members Posts: 991 ✭✭
    So it seems like the consensus answer from all of these posts is: "it can happen, but it doesn't happen very often, and it might be related to the specific epoxy used."



    That being said, for those of us living in hot climates, it seems it would be best to use an epoxy with a relatively high breakdown temperature. I generally use the golfworks 24 hour epoxy, which hasn't ever failed for me, even though I store my clubs in my trunk. Are the various "quick set" epoxies likely to have higher or lower temperature resistance?
    Titleist 917D3 w/YS-6+
    Taylormade V-steel 15* w/YS-6+ FW
    Titleist 909h 17* and 21* w/YS-hybrid
    Adams dHy 24* w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Adams XTD Forged 6 (28*) - PW (48*) w/Aldila RIP Tour 115 (bent to 5* loft gaps)
    Vokey SM4 TVD 50M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 56S w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 60M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #5
  • DaveGoodrichDaveGoodrich Members Posts: 991 ✭✭
    I did some googling looking for definitive answers, but didn't find any. I did find this post from another forum from someone who sounds pretty knowledgeable:


    I've mentioned in a few other places here that I'm a polymers guy. Here are a few thoughts:



    The shaft resin and adhesives used in golf clubs are thermosets - they do not "melt" in the sense that they can be reworked. They do, however, soften - lose their strength - at higher temperatures. Think of a how stiff a rubber garden hose is in winter vs summer. But it won't "melt." Epoxies soften too, just at higher temperatures. The epoxy adhesives used in golf clubs soften enough to yank the shaft from the clubhead at about 250 degrees F under force. That is hotter than the interior of a car gets on the hottest day, and it is hotter than you can hold in your hands. Most reports I have read say the interior temperature gets to about 50-60 degrees above the outdoor temperature, So on a 100 degree day, the interior of a car can approach 160 degrees. I have seen claims of 200 degrees, but even this is likely too low to soften the resin enough under a full swing, even if you could hold the club. The other interesting thing is that the trunk is 5-10 degrees cooler than the interior, because the trunk has no glass/greenhouse effect.



    That said, moderate temperatures are less harmful to clubs than extremes - hot or cold - so I tend to keep the clubs out of the car unless I know I'll be playing that day. How much more harmful is hot storage? I would drive across the South on a sunny 90 degree week-long road trip with my clubs in my trunk, but if I don't need to keep them in there, I don't. I don't dispute that some of you saw clubheads fly, but temperatures were probably at most a contributing factor, not the primary factor.



    Grips are a little different. They are softer at lower temperatures, and they may contain additives to tackify the grip, or at least things like stabilizers/antioxidants. Sometimes, these additives are designed to be incompatible with the rubber used in the grips, so that the tackifier or whatever slowly bleeds to the surface so the tackiness is always being renewed - until it gets really hot, then the bleeding occurs much faster and the grips get, to use a technical term, yucky. Even compatible additives can migrate more to the surface in really hot weather and create some of that same yuckiness. And if the grips are made of the right (or wrong) type of rubber, trunk temperatures could allow irreversible deformation of a grip that is being pushed by another shaft. It didn't actually melt, but it was soft enough to allow the deformation to go far enough that it wouldn't bounce back. Those of a certain age who used to pull six-pack rings probably did just that with the plastic. For the rest of you, think of a tree branch. Under gentle winds, the branch yields and recovers. Given too much wind or ice, the branch will bend or break and not rebound. It takes less force to deform when the rubber is hot - or more force/longer times at lower temperatures.



    Bottom line - IMHO, I avoid hot or cold storage, but I consider it more of a good-to-do than a must-do.
    Titleist 917D3 w/YS-6+
    Taylormade V-steel 15* w/YS-6+ FW
    Titleist 909h 17* and 21* w/YS-hybrid
    Adams dHy 24* w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Adams XTD Forged 6 (28*) - PW (48*) w/Aldila RIP Tour 115 (bent to 5* loft gaps)
    Vokey SM4 TVD 50M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 56S w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Vokey SM6 60M w/Aldila RIP Tour 115
    Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #5
  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,222 ClubWRX
    Nessism wrote:

    Hondabuff wrote:


    4 years ago I took a trip to visit friends in Phoenix and left my clubs in the trunk for the first few days of the rental. Temps were 110*outside. We got to the range at Dinosaur Mountain and my 7 and 8 iron had both heads twist. It was kinda tough not playing with those 2 clubs all day. Pretty sure it was 3M DP-810 I was using at the time and the hot Desert sun did soften up the glue.




    DP-810 does soften from heat more so than epoxies like DP-420 and 460. I agree with not using that stuff in extreme temp situations. I use it regularly but I don't store my clubs in the car and I don't play when it's super hot outside.


    The very reason why I won't use DP-810.
    Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"
    Cobra F8 5-6 Fwy at 18.5° Stiff
    Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
    X2 Hot 4_-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
    Ping Forged 52°, ES 56º and ES 60º
    Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.5"
    MCC Align Midsize
    Moving to the bench:
    Jazz Bear Cat 3 wd Aerotech Stiff
    Vokey SM2 52º cc
    Scotty X7M Dual 38"
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