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Prices in the UK

 babyfade ·  
babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
Joined:  in UK #1
Hello. I am travelling to the UK now for 3 years in a row and prices for green fees rise massively every year. Can someone tell me since when this proccess is going on and if it will last forever?



PS: I know about inflation, but the prices for green fees in the UK rise much more than regular inflation.
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  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2592WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 2,592
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    I know my course for next season is rising from 175 to 180 for a round.
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
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    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?
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  • Green ManGreen Man  3WRX Points: 12Members Posts: 3
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    I live in the UK and wouldn’t dream of paying the green fees to play courses over here that our US cousins are paying. I honestly would rather not play.

    I think as long as there are a long que of folks from the US and Japan willing to pay the more they will keep rising.

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  • Pleasedwith3puttsPleasedwith3putts  1744WRX Points: 136Members Posts: 1,744
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    Green Man wrote:


    I live in the UK and wouldn't dream of paying the green fees to play courses over here that our US cousins are paying. I honestly would rather not play.

    I think as long as there are a long que of folks from the US and Japan willing to pay the more they will keep rising.




    Try playing some of the US courses and see what the fees are. Seriously, the UK is good value in comparison with like for like ranked courses, it's just not as cheap as it used to be.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3794WRX Points: 311Members Posts: 3,794
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    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.
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  • Green ManGreen Man  3WRX Points: 12Members Posts: 3
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    I know. Some of the annual/monthly fees I read about are eye watering.



    I have managed to get a trip to Gleneagles earlier this year and we off to Turnberry in 2 weeks but we manage to get quite good deals including accommodation.



    The private members club I play at is £620 per year. As you say golf on either side of the pond is vastly different.
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  • tideridertiderider  2533WRX Points: 1,562Members Posts: 2,533
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    prices were rising long before brexit or any political/economic movement/figure ... the new courses in scotland/ireland are built for tourist dollars from the US and Asia ... the big courses have hiked their own fees as a result ... been happening since the '80s ... i'm going with some friends who haven't been before, and though i know the big courses aren't the true face of scottish golf, we're playing them ... i want to play them since i haven't played them and they're the ranked courses, and i have no doubt they will leave an impression ... but i'd love to go back and play a bunch of unknown courses ... the local courses that represent what golf really is in scotland ...
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
    Joined:  edited Oct 16, 2018 #9
    raynorfan1 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.




    Dornoch will be GBP 180 next year... maybe the course with the highest rise the last few years? It's a shame, because for me the Highlands always were a place (maybe the last place) where you can play first class golf courses for moderate prices. A day ticket at Brora will be 99 instead of 88 next year. Still a great price, but the direction is the same.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3794WRX Points: 311Members Posts: 3,794
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    babyfade wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.




    Dornoch will be GBP 180 next year... maybe the course with the highest rise the last few years? It's a shame, because for me the Highlands always were a place (maybe the last place) where you can play first class golf courses for moderate prices. A day ticket at Brora will be 99 instead of 88 next year. Still a great price, but the direction is the same.




    Agree. The Highlands were the last great place where elite golf courses were raw and unpolished. That said, I was first in Dornoch about 20 years ago, and it felt like it (the town and the club) was a shell of its former self. Part of me wonders if the current boom is actually just a bit of a re-set back to the seaside destination that it was 50-100+ years ago.
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  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2592WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 2,592
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    babyfade wrote:


    Dornoch will be GBP 180 next year... maybe the course with the highest rise the last few years? It's a shame, because for me the Highlands always were a place (maybe the last place) where you can play first class golf courses for moderate prices. A day ticket at Brora will be 99 instead of 88 next year. Still a great price, but the direction is the same.




    wow I was trying hard to get folk to drive up and play Dornoch in September but no one would go with me due to drive time and price. no chance now!
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
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    I will be in Dornoch next may. But I think it will be the last time for a few years. I will change to Machrihanish. Not much more travel time for me and also a great place with a wonderful course.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3794WRX Points: 311Members Posts: 3,794
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    In fairness to Dornoch, if you think about it in terms of its peer (by magazine rankings) courses, it has been - and continues to be - significantly underpriced. Muirfield will be GBP 250 next year; Pebble Beach is $600...so GBP 180 is a bargain in that company.
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
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    raynorfan1 wrote:


    In fairness to Dornoch, if you think about it in terms of its peer (by magazine rankings) courses, it has been - and continues to be - significantly underpriced. Muirfield will be GBP 250 next year; Pebble Beach is $600...so GBP 180 is a bargain in that company.




    Thats true!
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  • ceejay81ceejay81 Love that chicken from Popeyes! Washington, DC 2017WRX Points: 1,136Members Posts: 2,017
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    Kingsbarns is £268 in 2018 but I just prepaid my round for 2019 and it's £288.



    At $380, it's similar to price as Pinehurst #2 if you're not staying on the resort.
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
    Joined:  edited Oct 16, 2018 #16
    ceejay81 wrote:


    Kingsbarns is £268 in 2018 but I just prepaid my round for 2019 and it's £288.



    At $380, it's similar to price as Pinehurst #2 if you're not staying on the resort.




    Yes, the highest in the UK. Followed by the Trump courses.



    Maybe Skibo and Renaissance are around the same. Don't know really, as it's hard to get tee times there.
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  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2592WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 2,592
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    ceejay81 wrote:


    Kingsbarns is £268 in 2018 but I just prepaid my round for 2019 and it's £288.



    At $380, it's similar to price as Pinehurst #2 if you're not staying on the resort.




    I remember when kinsbarns one April for 200 sounds for a 4 ball!



    I got trump for 90 ish this year and that was a good price, its not worth the full price.
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Iowa 19123WRX Points: 3,108ClubWRX Posts: 19,123
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    babyfade wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.




    Dornoch will be GBP 180 next year... maybe the course with the highest rise the last few years? It's a shame, because for me the Highlands always were a place (maybe the last place) where you can play first class golf courses for moderate prices. A day ticket at Brora will be 99 instead of 88 next year. Still a great price, but the direction is the same.




    That's a little misleading. Catch an evening rate and it's half that price, at least it would have been 90 GBP each for us the Thursday evening after the Sunday afternoon we had paid full price, except one of our caddies invited my oldest daughter and I to play as his guests that evening (I paid the 20 GBP per guest fee he was to be charged gladly and bought him a drink, but of course, then he had to buy a round - awesome folks up there!). We got discounted rates with replays/evening rates at a couple of other places. I get the point, but even at 90 GBP on a sunny evening that lasts until after 10:00 pm, it's a steal playing Royal Dornoch at that price.
    Posted:
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3794WRX Points: 311Members Posts: 3,794
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    It wouldn't be Scotland if the locals weren't complaining about the price.
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  • babyfadebabyfade  569WRX Points: 107Members Posts: 569
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    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:

    raynorfan1 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.




    Dornoch will be GBP 180 next year... maybe the course with the highest rise the last few years? It's a shame, because for me the Highlands always were a place (maybe the last place) where you can play first class golf courses for moderate prices. A day ticket at Brora will be 99 instead of 88 next year. Still a great price, but the direction is the same.




    That's a little misleading. Catch an evening rate and it's half that price, at least it would have been 90 GBP each for us the Thursday evening after the Sunday afternoon we had paid full price, except one of our caddies invited my oldest daughter and I to play as his guests that evening (I paid the 20 GBP per guest fee he was to be charged gladly and bought him a drink, but of course, then he had to buy a round - awesome folks up there!). We got discounted rates with replays/evening rates at a couple of other places. I get the point, but even at 90 GBP on a sunny evening that lasts until after 10:00 pm, it's a steal playing Royal Dornoch at that price.




    Twilight rates (after 6 pm) will be 110 gbp next year.



    Don't get me wrong. Dornoch just was a good example for the increase in prices. This thread shouldn't be about complaining about the prices in Dornoch. It still is much cheaper than other courses.



    The thread was more about the trend in general. I just asked myself if this will stop eventually.
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  • davep043davep043  4111WRX Points: 1,309Members Posts: 4,111
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    From everything I've read, those of us lucky enough to visit Scotland pay high fees that subsidize the golf for the local members, and I have no problem with that. As others have said, outside of a few recently built courses (I mean Kingsbarns age or younger), the prices are actually lower than we'd pay for similarly-regarded courses in the US. If we were actually allowed to play them! We're not going to see Congressional or Oakmont or Olympic Club routinely open their tee sheet to non-members, yet Muirfield and Royal Troon and Royal Dornoch and Prestwick do it all the time. So as the cost of operating a golf club rises, we visitors are going to have to expect to pay for those increases in a disproportionate manner, as the clubs try to keep costs low for their members. I'm good with that, and I'm happy to be allowed (and warmly welcomed) to play these brilliant courses.
    Posted:
  • duffer987duffer987 I'm oot. Canadian in California 9428WRX Points: 774Members Posts: 9,428
    Joined:  edited Oct 17, 2018 #22
    I'm one who falls in the - these courses are largely an awesome deal vs. North America - camp.



    The tourist trail UK courses can keep going 5% annually or so for as long as they like and punters from outside the UK will keep on filling their teesheets. Yes at some point they will crest, but I think they've got a fair ways to go. And then of course there are clubs that don't really care if they get visitors and can put their fees wherever they want.



    I've been over 3 times this year - including last week - and paid as little as 22.50GBP up to quite a bit and only one course did I think really wasn't "worth" its green fee. Otherwise I'm fine paying what these private golf clubs post as their visitor rates. I like 'traditional' courses and get a ton of golfing joy out of them, and typically I also enjoy the non-golf a **** sight more there than where North American 'destination' resorts are.



    Conversely, tourist trail Irish courses pretty much operate as a cartel in regards to green fees, at least in the UK there is loads of variety in regards to finding courses with green fees you find more palatable for enjoying a long weekend, 1 or 2 week trip.

    Funnily enough, the first time I played Old Head it cost me 35 Irish punts in the late 90s.
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  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2592WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 2,592
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    davep043 wrote:


    From everything I've read, those of us lucky enough to visit Scotland pay high fees that subsidize the golf for the local members,




    my club gets roughly the same money from visitors as it does members fees. we do only have 350 full members.



    visitors up 5er a round and our fees went up too, no idea by how much.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1  3794WRX Points: 311Members Posts: 3,794
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    davep043 wrote:


    From everything I've read, those of us lucky enough to visit Scotland pay high fees that subsidize the golf for the local members, and I have no problem with that.




    I think that's really only true for a tiny fraction of golf courses. The St. Andrews Links; Dornoch; Muirfield; Carnoustie; probably Gullane, Prestwick, North Berwick...and that's about it.



    The high $$$ resorts (Gleneagles, Turnberry, Kingsbarns, et. al.) are expensive for everybody. The more local courses don't generate the visitor volume (or price) that the well-known courses do.



    It feels good for the visitor to believe there's some altruistic support going on here, but for the most part, courses in Scotland are maintained on a much lower budget than their American counterparts, and that's why the members' fees are so much lower.
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  • StallStall  400WRX Points: 74Members Posts: 400
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    raynorfan1 wrote:

    davep043 wrote:


    From everything I've read, those of us lucky enough to visit Scotland pay high fees that subsidize the golf for the local members, and I have no problem with that.




    I think that's really only true for a tiny fraction of golf courses. The St. Andrews Links; Dornoch; Muirfield; Carnoustie; probably Gullane, Prestwick, North Berwick...and that's about it.



    The high $$$ resorts (Gleneagles, Turnberry, Kingsbarns, et. al.) are expensive for everybody. The more local courses don't generate the visitor volume (or price) that the well-known courses do.



    It feels good for the visitor to believe there's some altruistic support going on here, but for the most part, courses in Scotland are maintained on a much lower budget than their American counterparts, and that's why the members' fees are so much lower.




    My mate has a membership at Crail and it is buttons...... I was told it is mainly because they get to charge the walk up punter £80 per pop. 0f course its proximity to St Andrews and the history of the course helps.
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  • ZigzogZigzog  260WRX Points: 75Members Posts: 260
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    Golf is on the decline in general, but while they can get the tees booked up in the summer they will charge as much as they can - sad but true as they need to make up the loss of income at others times of the year someway.



    A lot of the popular big name course could probably charge what they like and still get the tee filled up.
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  • scott_Donaldscott_Donald Aberdeen, Scotland & Houston 2592WRX Points: 267Members Posts: 2,592
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    Zigzog wrote:


    Golf is on the decline in general, but while they can get the tees booked up in the summer they will charge as much as they can - sad but true as they need to make up the loss of income at others times of the year someway.



    A lot of the popular big name course could probably charge what they like and still get the tee filled up.




    the way I see it -



    visitors supplement the costs to running the club for the members. My course limits the visitors as they just need to get X amount per year after the membership fees are taken the previous October.



    I am all for visitors, some of them really struggle in the wind and play stupid slow!
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  • robleighlefty89robleighlefty89  139WRX Points: 49Members Posts: 139
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    Zigzog wrote:


    Golf is on the decline in general, but while they can get the tees booked up in the summer they will charge as much as they can - sad but true as they need to make up the loss of income at others times of the year someway.



    A lot of the popular big name course could probably charge what they like and still get the tee filled up.




    I think a lot of courses have/are exhausting their market with increased green fees. For years (in England, can't speak for elsewhere) Clubs have regularly increased green fees without improving the experience offered. What a lot of Clubs tend to do now is look at how they can make the day special so that people don't mind paying the high fees.



    You want people to walk away saying "I can't wait to come back and have another go at that course next year" rather than "That was good to play, one off the list..".



    Retention isn't just important for Membership numbers, it's important for visitors too.
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  • ceejay81ceejay81 Love that chicken from Popeyes! Washington, DC 2017WRX Points: 1,136Members Posts: 2,017
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    raynorfan1 wrote:

    davep043 wrote:


    From everything I've read, those of us lucky enough to visit Scotland pay high fees that subsidize the golf for the local members, and I have no problem with that.




    I think that's really only true for a tiny fraction of golf courses. The St. Andrews Links; Dornoch; Muirfield; Carnoustie; probably Gullane, Prestwick, North Berwick...and that's about it.



    The high $$$ resorts (Gleneagles, Turnberry, Kingsbarns, et. al.) are expensive for everybody. The more local courses don't generate the visitor volume (or price) that the well-known courses do.



    It feels good for the visitor to believe there's some altruistic support going on here, but for the most part, courses in Scotland are maintained on a much lower budget than their American counterparts, and that's why the members' fees are so much lower.




    Was just able to snag a tee time at Carnoustie for only myself on my July wedding trip. Have to prepay the greens fees, which are 210 GBP. It's about $270 USD and honestly I did not bat an eyelid at that price. Put that course with all of its history in the USA and it's probably $500 plus mandatory lodging fees. Silly, but probably not far off.



    So, I'll be playing Carnoustie during the final round of The Open Championship this year. Unfortunately, I'm a year late. image/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
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  • ChancemanChanceman  701WRX Points: 142Members Posts: 701
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    Interesting how this price of about GBP200 is the going rate for the top UK courses. They must all have the same cost structure... Where does all the money go, I wonder.
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  • Matt JMatt J  8735WRX Points: 336Members Posts: 8,735
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    raynorfan1 wrote:

    babyfade wrote:


    I know a course that is rising from 160 to 180. Or from 85 to 95. And they rise that much every year. I just wunder if thats normal for golf courses? Or are we in a time where travelling to golf courses gets more popular?




    Two trends working towards rising visitor greens fees in the UK:



    (1) strong global economy means a lot of golf tourism;

    (2) the brexit devaluation of the pound means that prices have actually been pretty flat for foreign visitors; looking back at my email receipts, a round at Royal Dornoch was GBP 120 in 2015 - $193...and it's GBP 160 in 2018 - $210 a 33% rise in GBP but "only" an 8% rise in USD.




    This.



    Also, generally tourism businesses including golf courses have been adopting Demand Based Pricing. Having just booked several tee times in Scotland for off-season play, tee times are a fraction of high season prices.



    Until they reach market equilibrium wouldn't you keep raising the rate?
    Posted:
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