We have launched our new enhanced Editor. There is an overview and tutorial Here.

Lower body starts downswing: How To Feel This

 juliette91 ·  
juliette91juliette91  1515WRX Points: 155Members Posts: 1,515
Joined:  in Instruction & Academy #1
Mostly I’ve flunked start of downswing 101. Could never get my brain to te my hips to start turning toward the target. But after watching a Gary Player lesson with Martin Hall where Gary passionately urged viewers to turn their chest to the target-to start the downswing ( which turns the hips), I tried it.



Turns out I can “tell” my chest to turn toward the target at the transition, and my hips follow in sync.



So all this instruction about turning hips to the target to initiate the downswing can be accomplished in other ways that trigger the hips to turn
Posted:
«1345
5

Comments

  • juliette91juliette91  1515WRX Points: 155Members Posts: 1,515
    Joined:  #2
    Typo sorry no edit feature—“Could never get my brain to tell...”
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • hack2489hack2489  240WRX Points: 23Members Posts: 240
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #3
    juliette91 wrote:




    ... to turn their chest to the target-to start the downswing ( which turns the hips)...






    That's one way... But, comes with the possibility of of then rotating or rolling the shoulders too much or too soon and thus not starting with hips.



    After failed attempts of turning hips 'back' (aka left hip back) and or starting with driving right hip to start the forward swing (aka downswing) by a now new swing thought of "belt buckle to left knee" ... So both a forward and rotation movement.



    The left hip back had me spinning out too much with no enough, or no, forward movement.



    The right hip drive had me pushing too far forward and not enough rotation.



    The belt buckle to left knee is the 'baby bear' ah just right swing thought for me.



    Subject to change without notice!
    Posted:
  • andrueandrue  1397WRX Points: 215Members Posts: 1,397
    Joined:  #4
    What seems to work for me is a sense of pulling my right buttock toward the target while consciously holding my head back. That movement creates a feeling of pulling along my left side. It also tends to cause my right elbow to come back to my hip. To me it feels like a disjointed, lateral move (ie; shift, then swing) but other people says there's a definite rotational aspect to it and the whole thing looks quite smooth.



    My problem is that I tend to forget to do it or (as yesterday for some reason) feel kind of afraid to. It's stupid - when I do that move I hit great shots but my brain still seems to think of it as a bit alien and risky. I also tend to neglect to fully turn my shoulders going back when I get like that.



    It's quite frustrating. The result of both those mistakes is not pretty and unfortunately they dent my confidence and make it even less likely I'll attempt them image/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />
    Posted:
    Callaway Rogue Driver.
    Callaway Big Bertha OS Hybrids (3/4/5)
    Callaway Big Bertha OS Irons (6/7/8/9/PW/AW/SW)
    Callaway 60* Sureout wedge
    Callaway 64* Sureout wedge
    Ghost Spider Si 72 Putter
    Callaway Super Soft Yellow (White in winter).
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los Angeles 5991WRX Points: 673Members Posts: 5,991
    Joined:  #5
    Oh wow, if the right people respond you’re going to hear everything from A to Z!



    I struggle with this too. A lot of what I once believed about this whole sequencing wasn’t valid. It is easy for me in the effort to start with my hips to way out of sequence, drop r shoulder, etc.



    What seems to work best for me is a focus on how to get right side thru- hands, arms, shoulder so that I get speed into the head thru impact.



    This requires me to get the left side out of the way. But a little like Player suggests, I focus more on shoulder than hips. I can’t pay attention to everything so I seems to hit it better if I stay focused shoulders, arms, hands and let the lower body react.
    Posted:
    Ping GMax 400 10.5 TPT 17 LKP
    Callawy Epic 5W 
    Callaway X-hot pro 3,4 h
    Mizuno MP4 4-W, KBS tour-v, 110 S
    Mizuno MP-64 4-W, c-taper lite, 105 R
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


  • Nard_SNard_S  3655WRX Points: 650Members Posts: 3,655
    Joined:  #6
    Rotate lead knee towards target.
    Posted:
  • mstrammstram  188WRX Points: 35Members Posts: 188
    Joined:  #7
    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • juliette91juliette91  1515WRX Points: 155Members Posts: 1,515
    Joined:  #8
    Please keep ‘em coming. One of these suggestions is bound to help some viewers.



    I tried like heck to get my lead knee to turn toward the target line but never could feel it to do it. I know the poster who said this one liner as though his posting ended the conversation might not believe something which sounds so easy to do could ever not be so.



    That’s why I started this thread—because what works for one doesn’t at all work for another.
    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S  3655WRX Points: 650Members Posts: 3,655
    Joined:  #9
    juliette91 wrote:


    Please keep 'em coming. One of these suggestions is bound to help some viewers.



    I tried like heck to get my lead knee to turn toward the target line but never could feel it to do it. I know the poster who said this one liner as though his posting ended the conversation might not believe something which sounds so easy to do could ever not be so.



    That's why I started this thread—because what works for one doesn't at all work for another.




    Hah, I guess that's me. If you cannot feel or execute that it's probably because your body is not in the position to do so. So you have to drill down and see why that is. For me it was because I had a false rotation, false coil. Good coil allows easy re-pivot, a falling into ball by flexion and rotation of lead knee.
    Posted:
  • me05501me05501  414WRX Points: 14Members Posts: 414
    Joined:  #10
    I think we each learn to execute things in different ways.



    Drawing from lessons I've taken to improve my golf, voice, work life, etc., I know I do far better with "do this" instructions than with "don't do that" instructions. I guess I don't like being told what not to do. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



    Having learned this about myself, I get more from each lesson. If an instructor says, "you're doing _____, don't do that" I'll ask them to give me an opposite/positive image to use instead. It's easier for me to remember and execute those.



    Anyhow...some golfers can think "turn the X to the Y" and others can think "don't let the Y get past the X." Either can be effective for different people.
    Posted:
  • ZitlowZitlow  433WRX Points: 149Members Posts: 433
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #11
    The shaft is swinging on a plane from the ball thru the base of the neck, the club head is swinging on a circle around the base of your neck. The club head isn't swinging on a circle around your belly button.



    Jamie Sadlowski said his legs are stabilizers in his swing.
    Posted:
  • cj4birdiecj4birdie  23WRX Points: 1Members Posts: 23
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #12
    I like to feel a push off the right heel/instep as the first move of the re-coil into the ball...that seems to be the best way for me to get my right hip through the shot NEAR simultaneous to the right arm "throwing" sidearm/underhanded WITHOUT me thinking about anything beyond transferring weight and letting the club follow to my ultimate goal, a straight, balanced "Stenson/Sorenstam" finish. I've never hit a truly horrid shot where I've gotten to that finish position, comfortable to evaluate the shot, from even a reasonable backswing. Jim Colbert used to say that he tried to "stand up and face the target as soon as I can" at the completion of the backswing. George Knudson was another guy who strove to hit that "evaluation" position as a major downswing thought. It all happens too fast to "create" positions w/ the club in free motion coming into the ball.



    Agree though, there are a million "feels" to accomplish what you're looking for, and what works for me won't necessarily work for others.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • NickcNickc  164WRX Points: 45Members Posts: 164
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #13
    The right knee & hence pushing off the right instep helped me - BUT as with anything thinking about it too much can and did lead to problems. Getting the belt buckle to rotate to the goal of facing the target was also useful.

    But as an olden I have found that having as few thoughts as possible and simply swinging to the right and through to the left works best - though the trigger is thinking about the feet - left for the backswing and right for the downswing and follow through (don't analyse or really think about it but suppose it is a push off from left for backswing - heel lifts slightly - and push off from right for down swing).The ground up rotation just naturally then happens.

    Try it with your eyes closed or just looking straight ahead and not at the ball - you may miss at first - but will free your body to just do its stuff.
    Posted:
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer  1706WRX Points: 318Members Posts: 1,706
    Joined:  #14
    Dont lean on a trigger to help fire hips JUST fire the hips!!!



    My hips are on auto pilot no thought needed but Im an ex college javelin chucker lol....



    How bout trying to really smash hard with driver cause I cant see anyone doing that without the hips going first....then once you got the feeling dial it back as far as needed to find fairway....ijs
    Posted:
    G30 LST
    3 wood M2 HL
    OnOffOnAgain Kuros 4-P
    Cleveland Blob
    SeeMore Butts
  • hack2489hack2489  240WRX Points: 23Members Posts: 240
    Joined:  #15
    me05501 wrote:


    I think we each learn to execute things in different ways.



    Drawing from lessons I've taken to improve my golf, voice, work life, etc., I know I do far better with "do this" instructions than with "don't do that" instructions. I guess I don't like being told what not to do. image/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



    Having learned this about myself, I get more from each lesson. If an instructor says, "you're doing _____, don't do that" I'll ask them to give me an opposite/positive image to use instead. It's easier for me to remember and execute those.



    Anyhow...some golfers can think "turn the X to the Y" and others can think "don't let the Y get past the X." Either can be effective for different people.




    Do not think of a pink elephant.



    So what did you do?



    It's got nothing do to with being told what not to do, it's how our brains work regwrding the focus subject of the thought.



    If you're thinking don't hit it fat, don't hit it left ... Chances are you will because that's what you're thought is focused on...



    Same for any swing thought. Exactly as you've discovered. It needs to be a positive focus that overcomes the error you are making.



    It may take several tries at different ones before it clicks too, which is the core of this thread...



    As I posted, thinking about pushing my left hip back didn't work, not right hip firwsrd, but belt buckle to knee did, does, for me ... ATM.



    Regardless of what we try, test, etc it needs to be a positive thought focus.



    Do not forget the milk!



    So what usually happens? 🤔



    Posted:
  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & Burgh 3718WRX Points: 442Members Posts: 3,718
    Joined:  edited Oct 30, 2018 #16
    Thinking to start the transition with just the lower body, i.e. hips, and then with a turning movement is a problematic concept. Both the upper and lower body centers shift laterally with a small amount of rotation up until lead arm parallel at which point rotation takes over.



    Sneds demonstrates the move

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf



    Rory too

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf



    And last but not least Rose who makes it clear about keeping that lead side low in transition

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf
    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • Rosco1216Rosco1216  3060WRX Points: 228Members Posts: 3,060
    Joined:  edited Oct 30, 2018 #17
    Unless it just comes natural to you, it is very difficult to consciously tell yourself to simply “rotate your hips” and actually do it because youre in the process of a dynamic motion without an opposing force to rotate against.



    There are tons of cues people have tried to get themselves to rotate hips better. One thing most people don’t realize is that there is something in their set up or stance that actually restricts hip turn, such as a wide stance.



    I always struggled with not enough hip clearing and too much lateral shift toward the target. The best cue that worked for me was to maintain a little more weight on the front door at the top of the backswing and then from their to simply move my lead
    On -, @ss cheek back(from the ball) and upward simultaneously. It helps me get my hips cleared better, restricts lateral shift towards target and also got me “posted” into my lead side much better at impact.
    Posted:
    Tour Issue M3 8.5*(7.4* @ 3.4* open) - Diamana DF 70tx
    FW - who knows
    P790 UDI 17* - PX 7.0
    Miura CB 1008(4-P) - PX 7.0
    Bridgestone TourB XW1 50/55//60* - X100
    Piretti Matera 2 Limited Release


    https://www.instagram.com/rc_nova
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • moehoganmoehogan  1076WRX Points: 146Members Posts: 1,076
    Joined:  #18
    When I was a youngster, a wise old timer once barked at me “Get your g’**** nose in the dirt!”.



    Translation: Regain hip flexion in transition
    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily  2769WRX Points: 176Members Posts: 2,769
    Joined:  #19
    On the backswing, take the lead foot and step back to the trail foot, tap the lead foot and then step forward with the lead foot, plant it, and swing.



    It's called the step back drill, I think. If you cant feel the hips lead with that drill then nothing will help.



    Great for tempo too.
    Posted:
  • TIM929TIM929 Los Angeles 1186WRX Points: 670Members Posts: 1,186
    Joined:  #20




    this.
    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 10.5* Driver                  HZRDUS SMOKE 6.0       Tour Velvet std 
    Titleist TS2 15*    3 Wood               HZRDUS SMOKE 6.0       Tour Velvet std  
    Titleist TS3 19*    Hybrid                 HZRDUS SMOKE 6.0       Tour Velvet std 
    Titleist 716 TMB  4-P                      DG S300                          Tour Velvet Align 2 wraps  
    Titleist SM7 52.12F (bent to 49.09)DG S400                           Tour Velvet plus4 1 wraps
    Titleist SM7 56.10S                         DG S400                          Tour Velvet plus4 1 wraps
    Titleist SM7 60.12D                        DG S400                           Tour Velvet plus4 1 wraps
    Titleist SC California Fastback         33" loft 6.5                       SS CounterCore Pistol GT  
    Titleist PROV1                                 ball
    Kirkland sig                                     glove 
    FJ rain glove                                    glove (rain)  
     

    WITB:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1729394-timbo929-witb/
  • Ray JacksonRay Jackson  1112WRX Points: 145Members Posts: 1,112
    Joined:  #21
    mstram wrote:


    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing




    This one has caused issues for me as the ankles rolling towards the target has caused my lower body to slide and my hips to get too parallel to the ground rather than pointing down and so then I get stuck behind. The better one I am going to try is belt buckle to the ground and then keep the left hip turning behind me. Hopefully that keeps arms in front of me and not behind.
    Posted:
  • juliette91juliette91  1515WRX Points: 155Members Posts: 1,515
    Joined:  #22
    cj4birdie wrote:


    I like to feel a push off the right heel/instep as the first move of the re-coil into the ball...that seems to be the best way for me to get my right hip through the shot NEAR simultaneous to the right arm "throwing" sidearm/underhanded WITHOUT me thinking about anything beyond transferring weight and letting the club follow to my ultimate goal, a straight, balanced "Stenson/Sorenstam" finish. I've never hit a truly horrid shot where I've gotten to that finish position, comfortable to evaluate the shot, from even a reasonable backswing. Jim Colbert used to say that he tried to "stand up and face the target as soon as I can" at the completion of the backswing. George Knudson was another guy who strove to hit that "evaluation" position as a major downswing thought. It all happens too fast to "create" positions w/ the club in free motion coming into the ball.



    Agree though, there are a million "feels" to accomplish what you're looking for, and what works for me won't necessarily work for others.




    This works for me too as I've adopted a Stenson like takeaway to eliminate actually moving off the ball after I begin the backswing (this way it's mostly done before I take the club back)

    but with the Stenson takeaway comes pressure on the rear foot/heel and that pressure is the coil for the re-coil of pushing off of it.

    getitdaily wrote:


    On the backswing, take the lead foot and step back to the trail foot, tap the lead foot and then step forward with the lead foot, plant it, and swing.



    It's called the step back drill, I think. If you cant feel the hips lead with that drill then nothing will help.



    Great for tempo too.




    Thanks, really great drill!
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • juliette91juliette91  1515WRX Points: 155Members Posts: 1,515
    Joined:  #23

    mstram wrote:


    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing




    This one has caused issues for me as the ankles rolling towards the target has caused my lower body to slide and my hips to get too parallel to the ground rather than pointing down and so then I get stuck behind. The better one I am going to try is belt buckle to the ground and then keep the left hip turning behind me. Hopefully that keeps arms in front of me and not behind.




    "left hip" ? sure you don't mean right hip? Or are you LH?
    Posted:
  • Tanner25Tanner25  6470WRX Points: 249Members Posts: 6,470
    Joined:  #24
    Barfolomew wrote:


    Dont lean on a trigger to help fire hips JUST fire the hips!!!



    My hips are on auto pilot no thought needed but Im an ex college javelin chucker lol....



    How bout trying to really smash hard with driver cause I cant see anyone doing that without the hips going first....then once you got the feeling dial it back as far as needed to find fairway....ijs




    My smash with the driver swing will end up 225 way to the right, lol
    Posted:
  • smdykassmdykas  174WRX Points: 51Members Posts: 174
    Joined:  #25
    glk wrote:


    Thinking to start the transition with just the lower body, i.e. hips, and then with a turning movement is a problematic concept. Both the upper and lower body centers shift laterally with a small amount of rotation up until lead arm parallel at which point rotation takes over.



    Sneds demonstrates the move

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf



    Rory too

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf



    And last but not least Rose who makes it clear about keeping that lead side low in transition

    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf




    The JR video changed my game last month while trying it. I didn't realize my hips were spinning out and I had the club so far behind me I was stuck.
    Posted:
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee  507WRX Points: 93Members Posts: 507
    Joined:  #26
    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.



    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.
    Posted:
  • Pleasedwith3puttsPleasedwith3putts  1744WRX Points: 136Members Posts: 1,744
    Joined:  #27
    moehogan wrote:


    When I was a youngster, a wise old timer once barked at me "Get your g'**** nose in the dirt!".



    Translation: Regain hip flexion in transition




    I like this move too. The problem with using the feel of you torso turning towards the target is it can easily result in casting.



    If you look at the move Rose uses in his practice swing it is to feel you are moving your head down into the ball and pulling hard to the left.



    It's very hard to cast if you retain spine angle and stay on top of the ball correctly at impact. The feeling of burying your nose in the dirt by the ball helps that and frankly if you don't clear your hips then this move will mean you literally have no room to swing the club into and are likely to shank everything , whereas a caster will create room by losing spine angle and standing up on the shot.



    So my two thoughts would be to feel like you keep your head on top of the ball on the way down and that your head does not move towards the target until after impact.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • golfstripegolfstripe  27WRX Points: 5Members Posts: 27
    Joined:  #28

    moehogan wrote:


    When I was a youngster, a wise old timer once barked at me "Get your g'**** nose in the dirt!".



    Translation: Regain hip flexion in transition




    I like this move too. The problem with using the feel of you torso turning towards the target is it can easily result in casting.



    If you look at the move Rose uses in his practice swing it is to feel you are moving your head down into the ball and pulling hard to the left.



    It's very hard to cast if you retain spine angle and stay on top of the ball correctly at impact. The feeling of burying your nose in the dirt by the ball helps that and frankly if you don't clear your hips then this move will mean you literally have no room to swing the club into and are likely to shank everything , whereas a caster will create room by losing spine angle and standing up on the shot.



    So my two thoughts would be to feel like you keep your head on top of the ball on the way down and that your head does not move towards the target until after impact.




    Was taught this too, real powerful. That feel for me is compressing-flexing something in the lower lead lumbar spine area in transition, but not sure what muscle it is but it slows initial torso rotation just the right amount for me.
    Posted:
    Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see.
  • Tanner25Tanner25  6470WRX Points: 249Members Posts: 6,470
    Joined:  #29
    oz dee cee wrote:


    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.



    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.




    And blow out a rear knee!
    Posted:
  • MillbrookMillbrook  1737WRX Points: 124Members Posts: 1,737
    Joined:  #30
    As someone has already said move lead knee to over the lead foot.



    For me it produces the move which was in Montes instagram message which Timbo posted. I see this as the Hogan move of returning the left buttock to the wall without the right buttock coming off the wall for a RH player.
    Posted:
    All comments are made from the point of
    view of my learning and not a claim
    to expertise.
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee  507WRX Points: 93Members Posts: 507
    Joined:  #31
    Tanner25 wrote:

    oz dee cee wrote:


    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.



    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.




    And blow out a rear knee!




    Nah, you’re doing it wrong! 😆
    Posted:
5

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.