What is better longer driver or better short game to work on

tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
Ok I been thinking about this and I am wondering when a kid going through puberty is it better to work on driving the ball longer and increasing speed or work on the short game.



I notice that once the courses get longer a lot kids scores go way up. I have feeling some kids who have great short game end up having a hard time hitting greens in 2

Comments

  • HubijerkHubijerk Members Posts: 753 ✭✭
    So, just because the courses get longer and the scores get higher doesn't mean that length or lack thereof equals the reason for higher scores. Short game could still be causing the higher scores because now there are more approach shots that miss leaving up and downs for par.



    Personally I would say focus on the 100 yards and in most as this includes short wedge shots that can lead to birdies on par 5's and short par 4's and chips and pitches that will save par.



    Hitting the ball farther is never a bad thing all other things being equal, and speed training is fine, but personally when I look at my numbers I find how well or poorly I'm driving it does not have as big an impact on my scores as how close I'm hitting my wedges.
    You can't sneak the cheese by a rat
  • Palmetto GolferPalmetto Golfer Members Posts: 154 ✭✭
    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.2018.html



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    edited Nov 7, 2018 #4
    leezer99 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    Ok I been thinking about this and I am wondering when a kid going through puberty is it better to work on driving the ball longer and increasing speed or work on the short game.



    I notice that once the courses get longer a lot kids scores go way up. I have feeling some kids who have great short game end up having a hard time hitting greens in 2




    Asked my boy and he said, 'why not both?'




    I agree you want both. But I also been told that when you hit the speed window you need to concentrate on distance more then short game practicing. I also been told the short game turns to garbage because distance go all over the place. I am not sure if that is true or not but does seem to make sense.



    I think my kid is entering this because in last month we jumped 2-3 club lengths and her drives are off the charts. Today she was so far I thought I dreaming. The scary thing I think she has way more to go if we push her.
  • AUSweeperAUSweeper Members Posts: 35 ✭✭
    If you can’t get it to the GIR it doesn’t matter how good your short game is.
  • HubijerkHubijerk Members Posts: 753 ✭✭
    To be clear were not saying practice one totally to the ignorance and detriment of the other correct? I think when we look at time spent working at increasing strength and clubhead speed vs. wedge practice is not equivalent. Outside of gym/strength work you can bang out swing speed training in 15 min. a day. Neither strength training nor speed training requires a golf course or daylight. So I don't necessarily think these are competing goals. The limiting factor is his desire and motivation to do it.



    Why not take the next practice round and have him play his ball... then toss another ball 10-15 yards (or whatever you think the reasonable distance gain target is) then have him play a 2nd ball out from there and see exactly what the impact is on proximity to the hole and scoring. If it makes a big difference then there's you're answer.



    But remember any time you work towards solving a puzzle another puzzle usually presents itself and creates a new set of things to consider and problems to address. That's just the nature of progression. Improved scoring doesn't always readily present itself when you improve individual skills, sometimes it takes a while to come together.
    You can't sneak the cheese by a rat
  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 422 ✭✭
    You mentioned speed window: if you are in that period of time then absolutely focus on maximizing speed to gain distance.



    Besides that though I think it depends on what your objective is. If the goal is to improve/maintain scoring immediately then work on the short game and putting. If trying to increase longer run potential then work on distance. I find that after a long layoff the rustiest part of the game is feel around the greens, but it comes back quickly. Not as quick a recovery in lost yardage.



    BTW I think consistency and accuracy in the full swing trumps both distance off the tee and short game. A repeatable swing that allows the player to control the ball is critical to scoring at any level of play or course length.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    CTgolf wrote:


    You mentioned speed window: if you are in that period of time then absolutely focus on maximizing speed to gain distance.



    Besides that though I think it depends on what your objective is. If the goal is to improve/maintain scoring immediately then work on the short game and putting. If trying to increase longer run potential then work on distance. I find that after a long layoff the rustiest part of the game is feel around the greens, but it comes back quickly. Not as quick a recovery in lost yardage.



    BTW I think consistency and accuracy in the full swing trumps both distance off the tee and short game. A repeatable swing that allows the player to control the ball is critical to scoring at any level of play or course length.




    For use have a repeatable swing is not an issue she is very constant and accurate. But lately we have an issue with club distance being longer every week. I am making up the yardage and club as I can't really think of a better to way to explain what is happening. For instance a 9 iron was going 95 yards and suddenly the next week it's 105 yards. All is great for a few days then we start to see the club go to 110 and that becomes the new norms. When things change this much it makes it very hard to hit GIR. Her swing speed has gone up 10-15 mph in a couple of months and lately her distance seems to match what we see on launch monitors.





    We practice everything like everyone else. For us like everyone else time is an issue you can only focus on so much every month. We also have found out that to be effective at her distance off the tee she needs to learn to shape her driver. This means working it both ways and curving it on doglegs. If you don't do that you will never hit a fairway. Of course learning that takes away time from elsewhere.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    You mentioned speed window: if you are in that period of time then absolutely focus on maximizing speed to gain distance.



    Besides that though I think it depends on what your objective is. If the goal is to improve/maintain scoring immediately then work on the short game and putting. If trying to increase longer run potential then work on distance. I find that after a long layoff the rustiest part of the game is feel around the greens, but it comes back quickly. Not as quick a recovery in lost yardage.



    BTW I think consistency and accuracy in the full swing trumps both distance off the tee and short game. A repeatable swing that allows the player to control the ball is critical to scoring at any level of play or course length.




    For use have a repeatable swing is not an issue she is very constant and accurate. But lately we have an issue with club distance being longer every week. I am making up the yardage and club as I can't really think of a better to way to explain what is happening. For instance a 9 iron was going 95 yards and suddenly the next week it's 105 yards. All is great for a few days then we start to see the club go to 110 and that becomes the new norms. When things change this much it makes it very hard to hit GIR. Her swing speed has gone up 10-15 mph in a couple of months and lately her distance seems to match what we see on launch monitors.





    We practice everything like everyone else. For us like everyone else time is an issue you can only focus on so much every month. We also have found out that to be effective at her distance off the tee she needs to learn to shape her driver. This means working it both ways and curving it on doglegs. If you don't do that you will never hit a fairway. Of course learning that takes away time from elsewhere.




    Young kids will always have these issues. They have to be able to adapt.
  • propredicrpropredicr Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    edited Nov 8, 2018 #10

    tiger1873 wrote:

    CTgolf wrote:


    You mentioned speed window: if you are in that period of time then absolutely focus on maximizing speed to gain distance.



    Besides that though I think it depends on what your objective is. If the goal is to improve/maintain scoring immediately then work on the short game and putting. If trying to increase longer run potential then work on distance. I find that after a long layoff the rustiest part of the game is feel around the greens, but it comes back quickly. Not as quick a recovery in lost yardage.



    BTW I think consistency and accuracy in the full swing trumps both distance off the tee and short game. A repeatable swing that allows the player to control the ball is critical to scoring at any level of play or course length.




    For use have a repeatable swing is not an issue she is very constant and accurate. But lately we have an issue with club distance being longer every week. I am making up the yardage and club as I can't really think of a better to way to explain what is happening. For instance a 9 iron was going 95 yards and suddenly the next week it's 105 yards. All is great for a few days then we start to see the club go to 110 and that becomes the new norms. When things change this much it makes it very hard to hit GIR. Her swing speed has gone up 10-15 mph in a couple of months and lately her distance seems to match what we see on launch monitors.





    We practice everything like everyone else. For us like everyone else time is an issue you can only focus on so much every month. We also have found out that to be effective at her distance off the tee she needs to learn to shape her driver. This means working it both ways and curving it on doglegs. If you don't do that you will never hit a fairway. Of course learning that takes away time from elsewhere.




    Young kids will always have these issues. They have to be able to adapt.




    😆Welcome to ages 9-end of puberty...re: doglegs, I kept reminding my kid that he has an expensive range finder to measure distance to the outside corner of doglegs AND 14 clubs in his bag. If driver is too long and will run out into the right trees, you can hit 3W or 3H/4H.



    Every hole is not automatically driver, nor is every chip around the hole, automatically, LW/SW. LOL. Enjoy the ride!
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭


    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee https://www.pgatour....02567.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - https://www.pgatour....02564.2018.html



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.




    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    propredicr wrote:






    ��Welcome to ages 9-end of puberty...re: doglegs, I kept reminding my kid that he has an expensive range finder to measure distance to the outside corner of doglegs AND 14 clubs in his bag. If driver is too long and will run out into the right trees, you can hit 3W or 3H/4H.



    Every hole is not automatically driver, nor is every chip around the hole, automatically, LW/SW. LOL. Enjoy the ride!






    For the most part choosing a different club is a way to lower scores and you can probably get in the 70's with this strategy. But in her case she is much longer than average. We played a tournament with that strategy a few months ago and she couldn't use a driver on any hole except for may a few par 5's. That really didn't giver her any advantage and she had long approaches to the green. You can still par the hole but it makes it tough. Most likely never break mid 70's doing this



    In the last few months she been learning how to shape her shot. Lots of success in practice but it not an easy thing to do for anyone. When she shapes the shot and figures out how to control ball flight successfully getting a par is easy for her and good chance she could make birdie. This how you end up getting under par.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭



    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee https://www.pgatour....02567.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - https://www.pgatour....02564.2018.html



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.




    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.




    I think with junior golfers good wedge play and short game will almost certainly win the most tournaments when they are younger. I don't believe though that once the distances get longer that many of those kids can keep up. I also think the longer kids who can bomb the ball have a harder time for sure to control the ball. It much harder to stop a ball on the green if you have more power or keep it in the fairway to begin with.



    Once they get older though they are going to need to bomb the ball to keep up. For girls over 13 I would expect 220 yards minimum and for boy 270 yards. Anything less than that you at a huge disadvantage for sure.
  • propredicrpropredicr Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    edited Nov 8, 2018 #14
    tiger1873 wrote:




    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee [url="https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.2018.html"]https://www.pgatour....02567.2018.html[/url]



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - [url="https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.2018.html"]https://www.pgatour....02564.2018.html[/url]



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.




    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.




    I think with junior golfers good wedge play and short game will almost certainly win the most tournaments when they are younger. I don't believe though that once the distances get longer that many of those kids can keep up. I also think the longer kids who can bomb the ball have a harder time for sure to control the ball. It much harder to stop a ball on the green if you have more power or keep it in the fairway to begin with.



    Once they get older though they are going to need to bomb the ball to keep up. For girls over 13 I would expect 220 yards minimum and for boy 270 yards. Anything less than that you at a huge disadvantage for sure.




    I didn’t catch how old your daughter is? What distances does she play, that driver is too long for a fairly straight par 4? Could it be the fairways were cut, recently? I know when there is any work done on the fairways, my kids distances gain/lose.



    I do agree with your distances, for the 13 yo age above. I know all the top competitors and their drives are spot on your numbers. Usually, the 6000-6700 par 4’s are 350-420, here.



    My 11 yo is playing anywhere from 6000-6700, this year. We focused on distance/full swing (less on short game, but, still practice it) for the past two years, which I think has helped. It is a hinderance in tourneys from the shorter distances, to your point. From longer distances he goes in with full irons and less “touch/feel” shots, which has helped him compete.



    I don’t expect his tourney distances to get shorter, because what kid goes backwards and starts playing down in age divisions and shorter distances LOL.



    I think lack of distance will catch up, at some point. Then, again, it may all even out once everyone hits/finishes puberty.



    I look at it, this way... Yes, Furyk and ZJ have won, but, week-in-out (lately), it’s generally the guy who can launch a bomb or dial back with iron/3W and then wedge.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    propredicr wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:




    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee https://www.pgatour....02567.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - https://www.pgatour....02564.2018.html



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.




    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.




    I think with junior golfers good wedge play and short game will almost certainly win the most tournaments when they are younger. I don't believe though that once the distances get longer that many of those kids can keep up. I also think the longer kids who can bomb the ball have a harder time for sure to control the ball. It much harder to stop a ball on the green if you have more power or keep it in the fairway to begin with.



    Once they get older though they are going to need to bomb the ball to keep up. For girls over 13 I would expect 220 yards minimum and for boy 270 yards. Anything less than that you at a huge disadvantage for sure.




    I didn't catch how old your daughter is? What distances does she play, that driver is too long for a fairly straight par 4?



    I do agree with your distances, for the 13 yo age above. I know all the top competitors and their drives are spot on your numbers. Usually, the 6000-6700 par 4's are 340-400, here.



    My 11 yo is playing anywhere from 6000-6700, this year. We focused on distance/full swing (less on short game, but, still practice it) for the past two years, which I think has helped. It is a hinderance in tourneys from the shorter distances, to your point. From longer distances he goes in with full irons and less "touch/feel" shots, which has helped him compete.



    I don't expect his tourney distances to get shorter, because what kid goes backwards and starts playing down in age divisions and shorter distances LOL.



    I think lack of distance will catch up, at some point. Then, again, it may all even out once everyone hits/finishes puberty.



    I look at it, this way... Yes, Furyk and ZJ have won, but, week-in-out, it's generally the guy who can launch a bomb or dial back with iron/3W and then wedge.




    My daughter is 11 so she is playing 5000 yard courses in tournaments. Girls play a lot shorter courses then the boys most of the par 4 are under 300 yards.



    I am reluctant to post her distance because most people will not believe me and I don't blame them. In the last year she has been averaging over 200 yards for a while and I seen other kids her age have been doing this as well as it was long but not game changing long. In the last few weeks though things have just took off we are seeing a huge increase in yardage probably averaging 230-240 now off the tee which is sort of crazy long for a girl her age. The scary part is she broke her driver this week and we replaced it yesterday and were only able to play a few holes but it seem like she may have actually gained even more yards.



    What all this means I don't know but that distance is well above average for sure. We have a good coach who recommend a great trainer who works with LPGA and PGA players. Both of them told me her distance, speed and strength is game changing if she works at it.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,852 ClubWRX
    Hey Tiger,



    Just curious how you are measuring your daughter's yardages. You use words like 'probably' and averaging. If you use trackman, it gives you a single number average. You can't average 230-240. Also, was it the training that has benefited her the most recently?



    I put my son on trackman recently and he averaged 151 with driver, which was a bit shorter than I thought he was.
  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members Posts: 172 ✭✭
    edited Nov 8, 2018 #17
    kekoa wrote:


    Hey Tiger,



    Just curious how you are measuring your daughter's yardages. You use words like 'probably' and averaging. If you use trackman, it gives you a single number average. You can't average 230-240. Also, was it the training that has benefited her the most recently?



    I put my son on trackman recently and he averaged 151 with driver, which was a bit shorter than I thought he was.






    I found trackman to be inaccurate for my boys distance. Instead I use this.

    https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B079YM6QPL



    Oh, and I found out he was shorter during Montery due to elevation change.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭
    mrshinsa wrote:

    kekoa wrote:


    Hey Tiger,



    Just curious how you are measuring your daughter's yardages. You use words like 'probably' and averaging. If you use trackman, it gives you a single number average. You can't average 230-240. Also, was it the training that has benefited her the most recently?



    I put my son on trackman recently and he averaged 151 with driver, which was a bit shorter than I thought he was.






    I found trackman to be inaccurate for my boys distance. Instead I use this.

    https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B079YM6QPL



    Oh, and I found out he was shorter during Montery due to elevation change.




    Those are awesome along with a Garmin Watch which is what I have. The problem is you can't use it on the range because it is GPS driven. Using devices like these Arcoss, or Game Golf will give you much accurate stats.
  • propredicrpropredicr Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    edited Nov 8, 2018 #19
    tiger1873 wrote:

    propredicr wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:




    Just my opinion...you got to get off the tee then you got to get it on the green. I know short game is very important. It is tough to win without at least a decent short game. But, you have zero chance of winning if you cannot get off the tee and onto the green. I base that off the stats below.



    2018 strokes gained off the tee [url="https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.2018.html"]https://www.pgatour....02567.2018.html[/url]



    2018 strokes gained tee to green - https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02674.2018.html



    2018 strokes gained putting - [url="https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.2018.html"]https://www.pgatour....02564.2018.html[/url]



    the top 10 of strokes gained off the tee and tee to green are a whose who of golf. It doesn't even compare to the top 10 in strokes gained putting. You might be the best putter in the world but if you can't get birdie putts it doesn't matter.




    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.




    I think with junior golfers good wedge play and short game will almost certainly win the most tournaments when they are younger. I don't believe though that once the distances get longer that many of those kids can keep up. I also think the longer kids who can bomb the ball have a harder time for sure to control the ball. It much harder to stop a ball on the green if you have more power or keep it in the fairway to begin with.



    Once they get older though they are going to need to bomb the ball to keep up. For girls over 13 I would expect 220 yards minimum and for boy 270 yards. Anything less than that you at a huge disadvantage for sure.




    I didn't catch how old your daughter is? What distances does she play, that driver is too long for a fairly straight par 4?



    I do agree with your distances, for the 13 yo age above. I know all the top competitors and their drives are spot on your numbers. Usually, the 6000-6700 par 4's are 340-400, here.



    My 11 yo is playing anywhere from 6000-6700, this year. We focused on distance/full swing (less on short game, but, still practice it) for the past two years, which I think has helped. It is a hinderance in tourneys from the shorter distances, to your point. From longer distances he goes in with full irons and less "touch/feel" shots, which has helped him compete.



    I don't expect his tourney distances to get shorter, because what kid goes backwards and starts playing down in age divisions and shorter distances LOL.



    I think lack of distance will catch up, at some point. Then, again, it may all even out once everyone hits/finishes puberty.



    I look at it, this way... Yes, Furyk and ZJ have won, but, week-in-out, it's generally the guy who can launch a bomb or dial back with iron/3W and then wedge.




    My daughter is 11 so she is playing 5000 yard courses in tournaments. Girls play a lot shorter courses then the boys most of the par 4 are under 300 yards.



    I am reluctant to post her distance because most people will not believe me and I don't blame them. In the last year she has been averaging over 200 yards for a while and I seen other kids her age have been doing this as well as it was long but not game changing long. In the last few weeks though things have just took off we are seeing a huge increase in yardage probably averaging 230-240 now off the tee which is sort of crazy long for a girl her age. The scary part is she broke her driver this week and we replaced it yesterday and were only able to play a few holes but it seem like she may have actually gained even more yards.



    What all this means I don't know but that distance is well above average for sure. We have a good coach who recommend a great trainer who works with LPGA and PGA players. Both of them told me her distance, speed and strength is game changing if she works at it.




    With her average length, and par 4’s @ 300, she should be practicing 100 and in. Especially, if she isn’t at least even or around even from 5000 yds. The best young lady in our 11-12 division is scratch and regularly is subpar and is long. Don’t think she averages 240, though.



    It’s possible your daughter has natural ability, and hit puberty early, to hit longer and with additional focus, can go longer. There are ladies on the LPGA who average 270. Why not? Best of luck with her short game. Get a Garmin watch for the course.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    kekoa wrote:


    Hey Tiger,



    Just curious how you are measuring your daughter's yardages. You use words like 'probably' and averaging. If you use trackman, it gives you a single number average. You can't average 230-240. Also, was it the training that has benefited her the most recently?



    I put my son on trackman recently and he averaged 151 with driver, which was a bit shorter than I thought he was.




    Yes the training has helped a lot but I wouldn’t do it until there 10-11 years old and make sure they understand golf. Haven’t used track man in while so do not the distance but it can be off if not setup correctly.



    We live on a golf course and it is empty in the afternoons so it pretty easy to measure drives with a laser finder using balls she plays with. Heck the other day we ran out and hit a few balls on a few holes during lunch just see how her new driver is. One other thing I learned different balls make a big difference too all I can say don’t use cheap balls.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    propredicr wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:

    propredicr wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:



    You can't go on what the PGA tour does because they are better than anyone in the world. As a junior golfer, give me wedge play and short game. If you don't have it, you can't score. You can score without distance, just makes it harder. Furyk, Z. Johnson, and many others win without being long.




    I think with junior golfers good wedge play and short game will almost certainly win the most tournaments when they are younger. I don't believe though that once the distances get longer that many of those kids can keep up. I also think the longer kids who can bomb the ball have a harder time for sure to control the ball. It much harder to stop a ball on the green if you have more power or keep it in the fairway to begin with.



    Once they get older though they are going to need to bomb the ball to keep up. For girls over 13 I would expect 220 yards minimum and for boy 270 yards. Anything less than that you at a huge disadvantage for sure.




    I didn't catch how old your daughter is? What distances does she play, that driver is too long for a fairly straight par 4?



    I do agree with your distances, for the 13 yo age above. I know all the top competitors and their drives are spot on your numbers. Usually, the 6000-6700 par 4's are 340-400, here.



    My 11 yo is playing anywhere from 6000-6700, this year. We focused on distance/full swing (less on short game, but, still practice it) for the past two years, which I think has helped. It is a hinderance in tourneys from the shorter distances, to your point. From longer distances he goes in with full irons and less "touch/feel" shots, which has helped him compete.



    I don't expect his tourney distances to get shorter, because what kid goes backwards and starts playing down in age divisions and shorter distances LOL.



    I think lack of distance will catch up, at some point. Then, again, it may all even out once everyone hits/finishes puberty.



    I look at it, this way... Yes, Furyk and ZJ have won, but, week-in-out, it's generally the guy who can launch a bomb or dial back with iron/3W and then wedge.




    My daughter is 11 so she is playing 5000 yard courses in tournaments. Girls play a lot shorter courses then the boys most of the par 4 are under 300 yards.



    I am reluctant to post her distance because most people will not believe me and I don't blame them. In the last year she has been averaging over 200 yards for a while and I seen other kids her age have been doing this as well as it was long but not game changing long. In the last few weeks though things have just took off we are seeing a huge increase in yardage probably averaging 230-240 now off the tee which is sort of crazy long for a girl her age. The scary part is she broke her driver this week and we replaced it yesterday and were only able to play a few holes but it seem like she may have actually gained even more yards.



    What all this means I don't know but that distance is well above average for sure. We have a good coach who recommend a great trainer who works with LPGA and PGA players. Both of them told me her distance, speed and strength is game changing if she works at it.




    With her average length, and par 4’s @ 300, she should be practicing 100 and in. Especially, if she isn’t at least even or around even from 5000 yds. The best young lady in our 11-12 division is scratch and regularly is subpar and is long. Don’t think she averages 240, though.



    It’s possible your daughter has natural ability, and hit puberty early, to hit longer and with additional focus, can go longer. There are ladies on the LPGA who average 270. Why not? Best of luck with her short game. Get a Garmin watch for the course.




    Have the Garmin both watch and laser finder there worth every penny. She does well in US kid tournaments but don’t do those any more she usually well under par on those last one she got like 2 eagles in 9 holes because she hit the greens on 1 on a bunch of them. I thought about doing worlds and some other regionals but decided I didn’t want to spend the money on 9 holes. Plus if she does well I worry about pressure too early



    Right now I just want her to have fun and work on her game.
  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 279 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:




    Have the Garmin both watch and laser finder there worth every penny. She does well in US kid tournaments but don’t do those any more she usually well under par on those last one she got like 2 eagles in 9 holes because she hit the greens on 1 on a bunch of them. I thought about doing worlds and some other regionals but decided I didn’t want to spend the money on 9 holes. Plus if she does well I worry about pressure too early



    Right now I just want her to have fun and work on her game.




    I’m curious. If she is driving greens routinely, what purpose would increasing distance serve unless you are hoping to bump her up into the older groups? Sounds like the answer is right there. Work on the short game.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,043 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:




    Have the Garmin both watch and laser finder there worth every penny. She does well in US kid tournaments but don’t do those any more she usually well under par on those last one she got like 2 eagles in 9 holes because she hit the greens on 1 on a bunch of them. I thought about doing worlds and some other regionals but decided I didn’t want to spend the money on 9 holes. Plus if she does well I worry about pressure too early



    Right now I just want her to have fun and work on her game.




    I’m curious. If she is driving greens routinely, what purpose would increasing distance serve unless you are hoping to bump her up into the older groups? Sounds like the answer is right there. Work on the short game.




    Perfectly good question. She not going to be playing short courses for the rest of her life. US kids tees are kind of short and not really fun as she tends to like to go after the ball and drive it. (Don’t we all) The hope is we will begin to play AGJA and one day invatationals those courses are longer so distance is needed.



    The other thing is it is possible that she may actually have the talent to go 300 yards. Who knows if that will be the case she may top out early and not increase much more. As a parent I don’t want to do anything that may hurt that potential.
  • blairdblaird Members Posts: 2,153 ✭✭
    I read an article years ago in golf magazine where it asked the same 3 questions to 3 different professionals and posted their answers. One of the questions was if you had a kid just beginning what would you work on...2 of the guys gave generic answers like grip and posture just basic fundamental stuff, the 3rd guys said let them swing at it hard, start building the foundation for distance, you can teach short game but you cant teach distance.



    Short game is def important but I think being able to hit the ball long is more important. Like posted above, if you look at the stats, the SG off the tee is where the money is being made. I will say that those with the hottest putter tend to win for the week but hitting it long is way more sustainable than making 20 footers at a ridiculously high clip.



    Ive always said the key to my game is hitting the tee ball in play. I hit it plenty long enough but I dont shoot bad scores because of putting, I shoot bad scores because I cant hit the drive in play. Hit it long (longer than average kids the same age) and keep it in play, and its hard to be too bad at short game to not post a solid score.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭
    blaird wrote:


    I read an article years ago in golf magazine where it asked the same 3 questions to 3 different professionals and posted their answers. One of the questions was if you had a kid just beginning what would you work on...2 of the guys gave generic answers like grip and posture just basic fundamental stuff, the 3rd guys said let them swing at it hard, start building the foundation for distance, you can teach short game but you cant teach distance.



    Short game is def important but I think being able to hit the ball long is more important. Like posted above, if you look at the stats, the SG off the tee is where the money is being made. I will say that those with the hottest putter tend to win for the week but hitting it long is way more sustainable than making 20 footers at a ridiculously high clip.



    Ive always said the key to my game is hitting the tee ball in play. I hit it plenty long enough but I dont shoot bad scores because of putting, I shoot bad scores because I cant hit the drive in play. Hit it long (longer than average kids the same age) and keep it in play, and its hard to be too bad at short game to not post a solid score.






    Not disagreeing with you, but I don't think that is the question the OP asked.
  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members Posts: 875 ✭✭
    To the OP, according to Titleist Performance Institute, there are two primary speed windows for youth. I believe some speed can be gained also once older but perhaps doesn't come as naturally (although again still achievable to add MPH to the clubhead speed.)



    If my kid is in this window, we are working on speed especially when working on driver. That being said, we are still trying to evenly divide out practice time between driver/short game/putting.
  • blairdblaird Members Posts: 2,153 ✭✭

    blaird wrote:


    I read an article years ago in golf magazine where it asked the same 3 questions to 3 different professionals and posted their answers. One of the questions was if you had a kid just beginning what would you work on...2 of the guys gave generic answers like grip and posture just basic fundamental stuff, the 3rd guys said let them swing at it hard, start building the foundation for distance, you can teach short game but you cant teach distance.



    Short game is def important but I think being able to hit the ball long is more important. Like posted above, if you look at the stats, the SG off the tee is where the money is being made. I will say that those with the hottest putter tend to win for the week but hitting it long is way more sustainable than making 20 footers at a ridiculously high clip.



    Ive always said the key to my game is hitting the tee ball in play. I hit it plenty long enough but I dont shoot bad scores because of putting, I shoot bad scores because I cant hit the drive in play. Hit it long (longer than average kids the same age) and keep it in play, and its hard to be too bad at short game to not post a solid score.






    Not disagreeing with you, but I don't think that is the question the OP asked.




    Thought the questions was what should be worked on long game or short game...if I missed this my bad. I was just posting a couple examples of why I think its important to work on long game.
  • castle24rdcastle24rd Members Posts: 138
    My daughter is tall for her age (8) and hits it pretty hard but 7 putted a hole during her club champ. She ended up winning it anyway but I think it’s because she hits driver so well she puts herself into scoring position on every hole.
    915 D2 Adilia Rogue Silver X
    915fd Adilia Rogue Black X
    910h 19* Tour AD DI 8X
    AP2 4-pw Project X PxI 6.5
    Vokey wedges
    Cameron TeI3
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