Still Stunned After Getting Estimate From Club Champ Fitting

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Comments

  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    Ri_Redneck wrote:

    skyking wrote:


    On top of all that, I emailed the fitter yesterday asking for ALL the TM data and the fitting information, "lie, loft, length and the like". Guy writes back that I got ALL the TM data and I got the fitting info on my "Sales Order' sheet...BS. There is no lie, loft, length info...F'ing liar. My guess? He doesn't want to send it. My friend showed me a fitting sheet from CC because they are building a set for a customer.



    I have to go back on Friday to finish up the full bag fitting and it's not gonna be comfortable. Almost but not quite as bad as the feeling when dealing with a timeshare sales person.




    They list the full bag fitting on their website for $350. You are not obligated to buy your clubs there, but you can't blame them for trying! Be assertive and stick with your original plan. Just remember, armed only with the fitting data, you will have to seek out a builder that can get what you want.



    If the specs are not on the "Order Sheet", take it with you when you return and show them. They will print them out for you. Mistakes are made sometimes.



    BTW, what clubs, shafts and grips did they recommend for you?



    BT



    PS: You should also read their FAQ section on the website.




    Mizuno JPX-919 Hot Metal and Fujikura PRO 75i graphite with mid size grips of my choosing. They even charged above retail for the grips.
  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    DavePelz4 wrote:


    From their website...





    [background=rgb(224, 204, 182)] How does club pricing work when buying through Club Champion?[/background]





    When you get properly fit, there are two things that make up the cost of the golf club: The head and the shaft. Our prices on heads are EXACTLY the same as everywhere else. So that driver that is $399 at the Big Box megastore, it’s $399 from us. The difference is we are going to take out the stock shaft that comes with the driver. It is a low grade, low quality shaft in 99% of cases from EVERY manufacturer. Then we fit you for the best shaft for you that is on the market. So then we procure the shaft and build the club from there.



    Equally important to the Fitting, is the building. And we will build your set one club at a time to hit the proper length, lie, loft, swing weights, PUREING (www.sstpure.com), etc. If it’s not built right, or if it’s built on an assembly line, you won’t get the proper results from a great fit.



    I don't know about anyone else but I like grips on my clubs.




    I have already found new clubs for less than what they are charging. So stating, "Our prices on heads are EXACTLY the same as everywhere else", is a false statement. I do note they didn't say the shaft would be "EXACTLY" the same (price) as everywhere else. Therefore, they can charge double the full retail price...or more I guess.
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,173 ✭✭
    I think it's funny they say 99% of stock shafts are low quality, low grade. Maybe that was true 4+ years ago but not anymore. My Z785 came stock with a Tensei Pro Blue 60TX.
    WITB
    DRIVER MIA
    LTD Kai'li 70X
    818H2 Tour Blue 85X
    P790 4i Modus 120X
    P770 5-PW KBS Tour FLT
    Glide Stealth 2.0 50/10SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 54/12SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 58/12SS Modus 125 Wedge (Hi Toe 58 KBS Wedge in test)
    TP Black Copper Juno w/ PX 7.0 Wedge
    TP5X
    Sun Mountain 4.5 Bag

  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,297 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    I think it's funny they say 99% of stock shafts are low quality, low grade. Maybe that was true 4+ years ago but not anymore. My Z785 came stock with a Tensei Pro Blue 60TX.
    That and the fact that rather than order the shaft(s) ala carte they could buy the driver from the manufacturer, and sell, with the upcharge. But no!! It appears that no matter what they will sell you a stock set and then purchase the shafts they think you need.
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,173 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:

    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    I think it's funny they say 99% of stock shafts are low quality, low grade. Maybe that was true 4+ years ago but not anymore. My Z785 came stock with a Tensei Pro Blue 60TX.
    That and the fact that rather than order the shaft(s) ala carte they could buy the driver from the manufacturer, and sell, with the upcharge. But no!! It appears that no matter what they will sell you a stock set and then purchase the shafts they think you need.


    IMO it's just a ploy so they can convince you to buy an upcharge shaft and make more money off you. If I were to get a driver fitting at Club Champion, I'd order the driver bone stock from the OEM, buy whatever shaft I was fit into separately, then sell the stock shaft to recoup some $$.
    WITB
    DRIVER MIA
    LTD Kai'li 70X
    818H2 Tour Blue 85X
    P790 4i Modus 120X
    P770 5-PW KBS Tour FLT
    Glide Stealth 2.0 50/10SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 54/12SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 58/12SS Modus 125 Wedge (Hi Toe 58 KBS Wedge in test)
    TP Black Copper Juno w/ PX 7.0 Wedge
    TP5X
    Sun Mountain 4.5 Bag

  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    edited Nov 14, 2018 #37
    In retrospect and if I could do it over, I'd tell the fitter I want to spend the absolute least amount possible with maximum results and there was no way in **** I would spend more than a total of $1,500 for 7 irons and 3 wedges. I didn't say that because of wanting him to be completely committed to fitting me with the best combination and if he thought money was no object, I'd get a better fitting.



    Not smart...



    I thought going in saying, here's the way this is going down. Your gonna fit me, then I'm gonna buy the clubs, shafts and grips. Then you're gonna assemble them for a REASONABLE fee.
  • TomWishonTomWishon Sponsors Posts: 3,653 ✭✭
    skyking wrote:


    Just got fit at CC for 5-Gap and 3 wedges but they estimate is over 3 grand!!!! image/stink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stink:' />



    Is it acceptable to charge me TWICE the actual RETAIL price for graphite shafts and more than TWICE for steel?...really??? On top of that a buddy of mine was at Fujikura 2 weeks ago and they laughed when asked about PUREing shafts. He was told Fujikura shafts go through PUREing before leaving the plant and the shafts will be screwed up if they go through PUREing again by a shop. So there's another $30 for each shaft that would not only be pissed down the drain but have an adverse effect on performance.



    Yeah they charged more than retail for grips too...by at least 20%.



    What am I missing? Feel free to defend them. I've got to know how they justify their prices. In CC's favor they did charge the full retail price for the clubs. No discount whatsoever. I know...I've heard this before to a degree but until it happens to you...



    Thanks in advance!




    After 40-some years in clubhead and shaft design including consulting for two of the bigger clubhead production factories I can tell you how they justify what they charge you guys.



    1) Spend a ton on a facility with fancy fixtures and 500+ shafts and gadgets and you have a pretty strong starting nut to crack

    2) Dabble with TV ads paying Ledbetter and Haney to crow about your services and the nut just got a lot stronger

    3) Then for pay back, start by capitalizing on the sheer stupidity among so many golfers who do believe that "if it costs more it has to be better"

    4) Chiefly use shafts that are so far overpriced beyond what it costs to make them that it pushes point #3 above to an even more ridiculous level

    5) Add it all up and there you have your $3000 quote for 10 clubs that likely cost 10% of that to manufacture - and that's with profit for the production factory included



    But this here is the land where profit reigns supreme so if they can charge that much and get it, then by all means why not give it a shot. Because as P.T. used to say, there is one born every minute and it seems a lot of them ended up as a golf consumer.



    In this case RIP does not mean rest in peace. And BTW the very best clubfitters on the planet might charge about half of what you were quoted. But they all are one man shops with no money to pay super teachers to crow about them on The Golf Channel. But that's where the honest to gosh best fitting in this industry takes place. Bunches of people on WRX have found one of these few super fitters and worked with them and they can tell you.
  • propmanpropman Members Posts: 1,697 ✭✭
    TomWishon wrote:

    skyking wrote:


    Just got fit at CC for 5-Gap and 3 wedges but they estimate is over 3 grand!!!! image/stink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stink:' />



    Is it acceptable to charge me TWICE the actual RETAIL price for graphite shafts and more than TWICE for steel?...really??? On top of that a buddy of mine was at Fujikura 2 weeks ago and they laughed when asked about PUREing shafts. He was told Fujikura shafts go through PUREing before leaving the plant and the shafts will be screwed up if they go through PUREing again by a shop. So there's another $30 for each shaft that would not only be pissed down the drain but have an adverse effect on performance.



    Yeah they charged more than retail for grips too...by at least 20%.



    What am I missing? Feel free to defend them. I've got to know how they justify their prices. In CC's favor they did charge the full retail price for the clubs. No discount whatsoever. I know...I've heard this before to a degree but until it happens to you...



    Thanks in advance!




    After 40-some years in clubhead and shaft design including consulting for two of the bigger clubhead production factories I can tell you how they justify what they charge you guys.



    1) Spend a ton on a facility with fancy fixtures and 500+ shafts and gadgets and you have a pretty strong starting nut to crack

    2) Dabble with TV ads paying Ledbetter and Haney to crow about your services and the nut just got a lot stronger

    3) Then for pay back, start by capitalizing on the sheer stupidity among so many golfers who do believe that "if it costs more it has to be better"

    4) Chiefly use shafts that are so far overpriced beyond what it costs to make them that it pushes point #3 above to an even more ridiculous level

    5) Add it all up and there you have your $3000 quote for 10 clubs that likely cost 10% of that to manufacture - and that's with profit for the production factory included



    But this here is the land where profit reigns supreme so if they can charge that much and get it, then by all means why not give it a shot. Because as P.T. used to say, there is one born every minute and it seems a lot of them ended up as a golf consumer.



    In this case RIP does not mean rest in peace. And BTW the very best clubfitters on the planet might charge about half of what you were quoted. But they all are one man shops with no money to pay super teachers to crow about them on The Golf Channel. But that's where the honest to gosh best fitting in this industry takes place. Bunches of people on WRX have found one of these few super fitters and worked with them and they can tell you.




    Thanks for this. Would be nice to see a by state listings of these "super fitters". Know of one in Illinois ?
    15 hcp
  • ChronicSlicerChronicSlicer Members Posts: 909 ✭✭
    Thank you Mr.Wishon for an honest answer. Glad to see someone well respected in the industry trying to help someone, rather than rob them. Boy, I`d love to hear some of the industry insider stuff you know.
  • BY#99BY#99 Posts: 321 ✭✭
    I agree with most - the value is just not there. The prices are ridiculous and I would just go to get specs (if you have the urge to try them out) and have them built by somebody else for a reasonable price. I understand why they do it because you are not just really paying for the clubs but also all the expenses for CC. The building, inventory, equipment, etc. however, there appear to be people with money to burn and who do not care about price or they would not still be in business. I would never use them and have an excellent top fitter in my area where I have gotten full bag fittings and clubs for about half what CC would charge.
  • KMo23KMo23 Members Posts: 131 ✭✭
    Why would you expect to pay the same for someone to build your set by hand vs an OEM? That’s ludicrous.



    Be open- I want the cheapest set I can get my hands on OR I want the absolute BEST set I can get my hands on.



    If you don’t want CC to build your set - tell them “I want an OEM built set”



    Communication is key
  • 5hort5tuff5hort5tuff Members Posts: 3,286 ✭✭
    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!
    COBRA LTD w. Hzrdus Red
    WISHON 919 w. Hzrdus Red
    TAYLORMADE Issue Aeroburner w. Tensei Blue
    PING G25 w. Tensei Blue
    PING I200 w. AWT 2.0
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth
    MannKrafted Carbon WB Rattler
    Xenon Copper Wide X
    SGC 902
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,226 ✭✭
    It’s the PXG of club fittings.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • SullGolfSullGolf Members Posts: 8,746 ✭✭
    Outside of the extra services like PURE, I gather they are primarily more expensive because they sell the shaft separate from the club. You buy the club retail, then you have to buy the new shaft retail. Then you need to buy a new set of grips to go on that new shaft. If you buy from the OEM with a custom shaft, you pay an upcharge for the better shaft and that's it. No duplicate grip price, no retail on the new shaft. The only thing extra you pay for is the difference in price between the two shafts.



    Personally, I think CC provides a great service, and they provide more options than anything else I've seen. I just wouldn't buy a custom club from them.
  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    When I went to PING’s Tournament Division for the fitting, I got to see part of my set being built with exactly what Bill ordered, though I had to get our pro to place the order. It was very exacting I though, right down to the prescribed swingweight. So I don’t have a problem with an OEM but in this case the shaft is not available through Mizuno.



    I’m sure Tom could spot half a dozen things that a master fitter would or wouldn’t have done building them but at my level they served me well. For me the objective going to CC was to get fitted for a current model head and the “perfect” shaft for irons and driver using their expertise. The bonus being the hope of getting everything right there at a reasonable (to me) cost.
  • Golfer4LifeGolfer4Life Bob Parsons Bodyguard, Chump! ClubWRX Posts: 2,152
    BrianMcG wrote:


    It’s the PXG of club fittings.




    Too funny!



    Yawn!
    PXG Derangement Syndrome, it is real.......<br /><br />Equipment:<br /><br />A bag full of PXG’s<br />Non Titleist Welded Neck 35/330g SC 009<br /><br />“Check your Ego at the Club House and Play the Correct Tees”
  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that’s not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,361 ✭✭
    Either get the data or just learn to fit yourself.....that's what I did
  • Jim In SCJim In SC JiminSC Members Posts: 193 ✭✭
    My CC pricing for the recommended build was $3,400. This was for 10 clubs, shafts and grips, plus two shafts and grips for my current driver & hybrid. I ended up investing $2,100 for the entire build. I worked with my local fitter & got some of the clubs on WRX. I feel the $350 for the fitting was a good investment. Hard to replicate the ability to try out that many heads and shafts in 1 setting. I probably would have ended up with the same or similar heads, but probably not the shafts CC recommended. As we all know the price of a club gets pretty expensive if you have to buy the club and then have it reshafted with a quality shaft.
    Ping Gmax 10.5 VA Slay55 R
    Ping G400 SFT 3w,5w,7w Oban Isawa 65R
    Mizuno JPX 919HM 6-GW KBS TGI
    Titleiest H818-1
    Cleveland CBX 53, Titliest SM6 57
    Toulon Design Austin
  • 5hort5tuff5hort5tuff Members Posts: 3,286 ✭✭
    skyking wrote:

    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that’s not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.




    Great deal. I guess my point isnt that you PAID $350, but the place you want to normally charges $350. It's not surprising thst you got a great deal on the fitting, and want the same for the clubs. Hey...I would too. The difference is, I would never go to a premium place and expect to pay golftown prices for builds.



    In fairness...I went to TXG in Toronto...am excellent facility. I went for a putter fitting, was told my current putter had better numbers than anything k tired, and they charged me $0 for the fitting aswell.



    COBRA LTD w. Hzrdus Red
    WISHON 919 w. Hzrdus Red
    TAYLORMADE Issue Aeroburner w. Tensei Blue
    PING G25 w. Tensei Blue
    PING I200 w. AWT 2.0
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth
    MannKrafted Carbon WB Rattler
    Xenon Copper Wide X
    SGC 902
  • skykingskyking Posts: 957 ✭✭
    81PING wrote:

    skyking wrote:

    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that’s not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.




    Great deal. I guess my point isnt that you PAID $350, but the place you want to normally charges $350. It's not surprising thst you got a great deal on the fitting, and want the same for the clubs. Hey...I would too. The difference is, I would never go to a premium place and expect to pay golftown prices for builds.



    In fairness...I went to TXG in Toronto...am excellent facility. I went for a putter fitting, was told my current putter had better numbers than anything k tired, and they charged me $0 for the fitting aswell.




    TXG??? The guys who make the awesome YouTube videos? I found their videos last weekend. Kind of fired me up for my fitting on Monday. I assumed from their videos they are a high end facility and there’s been more than 1 set of $3,000 irons that have left that place. That’s very classy the way you were treated for the putter fitting.
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,467 ✭✭
    edited Nov 14, 2018 #53
    TollBros wrote:

    rightslice wrote:


    Watched a video with Kim Braly of KBS Pureing came up he kind of chuckled and wouldn't go near the subject. Told me all I need to know.




    The process is worthless. It's simply a way for clubmakers to jack up the bill for a totally unnecessary "service". I'd rather a priest sprinkle holy water on my clubs. It has more potential for benefit.




    So, you are telling me you dont know the actual specs of the shafts you are testing?



    Clubmakers who know what they are doing, measure all shafts to make sure the shaft we use to build the players clubs with is as identical to the fitting club as possible. Steel shafts are for the most pretty constant, but there is flyers, and on Graphite you never know what it is before its measured, and that goes for all price categories, even those with the label "Tour Issue."



    Just look into this list of random shafts ive measured to visualize this a few years ago

    There is at least 2 of each shaft model and flex, but they all vary depending on how its installed, and that goes for both FLO and flex. You will see 2 flyers on the same list, a PL BLUE AXIS S and a TOUR S, who both is way off their normal flex (about 1 flex class) depending on how they are installed. (Label up/down or Weak/Strong FLO line)



    its only a collection of 5 different models, but among 3 of them i found 1 shaft that was off by about 1 flex, with either 8, 9 or at the max 12 CPM. There is also a few with a rather large difference between the weak and the strong flo line, so the same shaft could play 7 CPM in difference or close to a whole flex depending on install.



    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1232002-floing-golf-clubs/#entry12243646



    This is what FLOing or PUREing of shafts is all about, its a quality control we cant drop if we want to make sure we duplicate all specs from one club to the other, just like we cant drop loft and lie.

    Just like True Temper weight sort the old Dynamic first to GOLD standard, then to TOUR ISSUE, this is the next stage, the final control, its not Voodoo or Hogwash, but its up to any player to decide if he want this level of quality and how much he is willing to pay for it.



    It boils down to, what club specs is important for you, and how much are you willing to pay to get it?

    Being fitted for a upgrade exotic shaft where we dont know actual specs on the shaft used during fitting, or the one we get delivered is Russian roulette with money, we simply have no clue if this 2 shafts actually is the same before they are measured.



    A high end fitting like CC offers without knowing actual specs on the clubs we use for fitting and later build, what can that be used for? I was on the top 10 list for PFC Tour issue product sales in 2011, so ive measured more shafts than most of you ever will, and i stand by my words when i say, modern graphite shafts is still not good enough to drop this quality control if we really want to know what we are dealing with, thats why i always did it and still do.



    If i should come with any negative comment against CC, then its their pricing for the same services, they are higher than what European club makers is able to charge, and our cost level is at least the double of what it is in the US. FLO with CPM test of a shaft takes anything from 1-3 minutes and should only cost a few buck (IMO), but if they use PURE they are charged them self with a license fee that pushes the price higher, so its the price aspect thats a bit off (IMO), not the service they offer.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • skyking wrote:


    Just got fit at CC for 5-Gap and 3 wedges but they estimate is over 3 grand!!!! image/stink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stink:' />



    Is it acceptable to charge me TWICE the actual RETAIL price for graphite shafts and more than TWICE for steel?...really??? On top of that a buddy of mine was at Fujikura 2 weeks ago and they laughed when asked about PUREing shafts. He was told Fujikura shafts go through PUREing before leaving the plant and the shafts will be screwed up if they go through PUREing again by a shop. So there's another $30 for each shaft that would not only be pissed down the drain but have an adverse effect on performance.



    Yeah they charged more than retail for grips too...by at least 20%.



    What am I missing? Feel free to defend them. I've got to know how they justify their prices. In CC's favor they did charge the full retail price for the clubs. No discount whatsoever. I know...I've heard this before to a degree but until it happens to you...



    Thanks in advance!




    I was quoted $25 more per club to get a set of irons reshafted compared to OEM doing the same exact work. Needless to say, I was very turned off and will never consider them again for anything.
  • ThayneilThayneil Members Posts: 523 ✭✭
    81PING wrote:

    skyking wrote:

    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that's not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.




    Great deal. I guess my point isnt that you PAID $350, but the place you want to normally charges $350. It's not surprising thst you got a great deal on the fitting, and want the same for the clubs. Hey...I would too. The difference is, I would never go to a premium place and expect to pay golftown prices for builds.



    In fairness...I went to TXG in Toronto...am excellent facility. I went for a putter fitting, was told my current putter had better numbers than anything k tired, and they charged me $0 for the fitting aswell.




    TXG are super at least their videos are



    Lots of knowledge and no over selling



    Ian is a fellow Scotsman and seems genuine as they come
  • 5hort5tuff5hort5tuff Members Posts: 3,286 ✭✭
    Thayneil wrote:

    81PING wrote:

    skyking wrote:

    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that's not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.




    Great deal. I guess my point isnt that you PAID $350, but the place you want to normally charges $350. It's not surprising thst you got a great deal on the fitting, and want the same for the clubs. Hey...I would too. The difference is, I would never go to a premium place and expect to pay golftown prices for builds.



    In fairness...I went to TXG in Toronto...am excellent facility. I went for a putter fitting, was told my current putter had better numbers than anything k tired, and they charged me $0 for the fitting aswell.




    TXG are super at least their videos are



    Lots of knowledge and no over selling



    Ian is a fellow Scotsman and seems genuine as they come




    They do excellent work here in the GTA. Great staff too. I've never had them build anything for me...I generally try to do whatever I can on my own...
    COBRA LTD w. Hzrdus Red
    WISHON 919 w. Hzrdus Red
    TAYLORMADE Issue Aeroburner w. Tensei Blue
    PING G25 w. Tensei Blue
    PING I200 w. AWT 2.0
    PING Glide 2.0 Stealth
    MannKrafted Carbon WB Rattler
    Xenon Copper Wide X
    SGC 902
  • Hateto3PuttHateto3Putt Smoking Makes You Look Cool! Members Posts: 6,271 ✭✭
    Question for those of you who have been professionally fitted.



    How much did the fitted set improve your game?



    Inquiring minds want to know.....
  • Jim In SCJim In SC JiminSC Members Posts: 193 ✭✭


    Question for those of you who have been professionally fitted.



    How much did the fitted set improve your game?



    Inquiring minds want to know.....




    "Improve" Just got my irons, so still too early to make a fact based statement. I am a super-senior so, I have 3 fw's in the bag. With the new fw's and a new driver shaft I have already experienced real improvement in FIR and GIR. My expectation is the irons will also contribute to better GIR. I play an extremely tight course with tough bermuda rough, so FIR is a big plus. Having confidence in the clubs is translating into more positive expectations and better shot execution and making the game more enjoyable.



    I have been away from the game for 5 years and had a hard time accepting how much distance, shotmaking & short game ability I had lost ( index doubled when I came back). My 2019 goal is to regain my index I had when I quit. I expect the new bag to contribute at least 40/50% to achieving my goal.



    I've played the game long enough to know it is mostly the Indian, but the right arrows do make a difference.
    Ping Gmax 10.5 VA Slay55 R
    Ping G400 SFT 3w,5w,7w Oban Isawa 65R
    Mizuno JPX 919HM 6-GW KBS TGI
    Titleiest H818-1
    Cleveland CBX 53, Titliest SM6 57
    Toulon Design Austin
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,173 ✭✭
    81PING wrote:

    Thayneil wrote:

    81PING wrote:

    skyking wrote:

    81PING wrote:


    I hate to say this...but you went to a fitting at a premium facility- spent a lot of money on the fitting alone - and expected a reasonable quote? To pay $350 USD for a fitting is about as much as you can spend. A quick search about CC will reveal your exact thread many times over.



    What did you expect?



    Ultimately, you will leave this experience with accurate specs for every club on the bag. That is very valuable. Source the heads and shafts out yourself and bring them to a local builder. Save thousands.



    Goodluck!




    I did NOT pay $350. I paid $175 knowing they run specials through January. To me it was worth 175. I would never ever pay $350 for a fitting, especially since that's not deducted from the purchase price.



    For the sake of completeness I will say that I did purchase the suggested putter...so there. Why? Because the price of a PING putter is set in concrete regardless of merchant. And I knew it would be difficult to for him to say I needed an expensive aftermarket putter shaft.




    Great deal. I guess my point isnt that you PAID $350, but the place you want to normally charges $350. It's not surprising thst you got a great deal on the fitting, and want the same for the clubs. Hey...I would too. The difference is, I would never go to a premium place and expect to pay golftown prices for builds.



    In fairness...I went to TXG in Toronto...am excellent facility. I went for a putter fitting, was told my current putter had better numbers than anything k tired, and they charged me $0 for the fitting aswell.




    TXG are super at least their videos are



    Lots of knowledge and no over selling



    Ian is a fellow Scotsman and seems genuine as they come




    They do excellent work here in the GTA. Great staff too. I've never had them build anything for me...I generally try to do whatever I can on my own...


    I can vouch for TXG, I just got fit there. Best fitting I've ever had from all aspects - knowledge of the fitters is immense (they've all got top notch game, too), laid back, 0 pressure atmosphere. Heck.. they even told me to NOT buy clubs through them because of shipping/duty fees as I live in the USA. I will never go anywhere else again... I've got total trust in these guys.



    Even if you have to fly in like I did, I highly recommend you give them a go.
    WITB
    DRIVER MIA
    LTD Kai'li 70X
    818H2 Tour Blue 85X
    P790 4i Modus 120X
    P770 5-PW KBS Tour FLT
    Glide Stealth 2.0 50/10SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 54/12SS AMT Wedge
    Glide Stealth 2.0 58/12SS Modus 125 Wedge (Hi Toe 58 KBS Wedge in test)
    TP Black Copper Juno w/ PX 7.0 Wedge
    TP5X
    Sun Mountain 4.5 Bag



  • I am not a representative of Club Champion but as a educated golf industry person who wanted to weigh in on this post. Because I know CC and all other places to buy clubs well.




    Also Tom Wishon is where he is on this forum because he's very small minded and set in his ways "the world should work" but doesn't, never will, not because of ill manner but because of simple economics and business principals that every company runs on. CC or any other fitter isn't doing anything different than any other business in the world. I contend they are more forthright than most because it all happens in front of you and they stand behind it. They pay endorsers like every company on the planet, so get over that. Tell Gillet to stop paying Tom Brady so your shaving cream you use every morning will get cheaper. Guess what Tom Brady or not Tom Brady it's staying the same price. Thats economics and facts, not price gauging.



    Understand the business model is to deliver a better fit with lower scores. For years CC (and others) learned the only way to do this is by controlling the ENTIRE process, from the fit to the build to deliver improved performance on the course. Twenty years of industry knowledge and studying the best in the game, accompanied by Golf Digest and Golf Magazine testing verifies their process leads to longer more accurate shots and lower scores. NO OTHER COMPANY I HAVE BEEN TO OR VISITED HAS DONE THE STUDIES AND BACKED UP THEIR CLAIMS LIKE CC (Fitting company). I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but they are the best of the best when it comes to fitting and delivering.



    Golf Magazine Study on Club Champion Custom Fitting

    http://www.golf.com/...lower-instantly



    Golf Digest Study on Club Champion Custom Fitting

    https://www.golfdige...study-hennessey



    Understand a true fitting process with all the tech, demos, people will be expensive and intensive and may not be for everyone. CC certainly try to work with individuals from my experience that still want their service in some capacity, but may not want the “Full Monty”.



    Moving on to individual concerns brought up BROUGHT UP IN MANY POSTS.



    1) SST Pure - CC are one of the original licensee and have been PUREing shafts for the last 17 years. There are many costs to doing this process, machines, licensee fees, man power, and time. I won't lie they make some money on PUREing, but its not all gravy is the point. CC truly believe as do their customers (The one's you can't believe they have and have built an awesome business on) and some of the best PGA Tour pros that SST PUREing makes a difference. Here is test performed by PluggedinGolf that demonstrates the benefits of PUREing: http://pluggedingolf...yths-unplugged/. Remember, PUREing is optional but there is no arguing there's a benefit. It's up to the golfer to decide if he or she sees the value in those benefits. Remember every manufacturer will tell you Puring is irrelevant, by telling you Puring is true they are admitting to making a product with defects, they won't do that (Kim Braly is a friend of course he will say that, he isn't bashing his own shaft, but he does all his R&D at Cool Clubs that Pures all shafts, hmmmm, but behind the curtain he does). CC has the data above and the others can’t produce data to support their side.



    2) The Club Fitting Process – At Club Champion they will let you hit WHATEVER you want in my experience. If a fitter in the company doesn't let you, talk to their manager or just speak up, you're all adults, talk communicate. To my knowledge they do NOT instruct their fitters to sell any brand over another, or any price point for that matter. They do instruct them to conserve swings and try to not waste swings with illogical choices, but at the end of the day, it’s the customer’s money and time so they will do what the client asks. I get it, you think they are here to sell everybody something expensive, that’s not the case. Many times I have seen recommendations to the customer to stick with one of their current clubs. CC's goals from my view is to fit a customer to the club that performs best regardless of cost and it costs something.



    3) The Build Process - Understand you can buy clubs from CC like anywhere else and they are happy to do that (Not all fitters allow that). Understand they want you to build the clubs through them because there are clear and present benefits to doing it that way. They build clubs the same way they are built on the PGA TOUR, distinctively for one individual, like a fingerprint. Let me break that down further. Not all manufacturers will build to swing weight. Understand swing weight can be one of the biggest influences to the performance of the club. To how the shaft plays, loads, and you release at the ball. Every piece that goes into the build affects swing weight. Second, weight sorting –



    Understand, they are not knocking manufacturers. It’s just a law of numbers. When a manufacturer needs 100,000 shafts, they go to a manufacturer place the order and that manufacturer finds an overseas partner to run that job. The job is priced based on the quality and price the manufacture wants. So sometimes the quality is a great unknown. CC source all their shafts from the shaft manufacturer’s tour stock. The same shafts sent to the tour are the same shafts put in your clubs when you buy from CC. Sure there are certain outliers to my comments but nobody here knows the manufacturing world of golf like I and others do and these are the facts. CC sources and weight sorts their customers’ shafts to make sure their clubs are built with the very best.



    Last, please recognize that with CC's process your clubs are one order on a bench with one master builder, everywhere else your clubs are on an assembly line. I Have been in their production facility and it is impressive and even many manufacturers respect their facility. Not to say that assembly line is bad, I am impressed by many production lines in the industry. But the more moving parts the more mistakes. The best in the world at this game understand that and that's why there are tour vans.



    4) The Cost - CC from my angle have a very simple formula. MAP (minimum advertised price) on all heads. Understand buying just the head does not affect the pricing CC has to sell it at. The manufacturer sets their minimum advertised prices and CC have to abide by that pricing. On shafts, CC sells at MAP plus $35. Then, if a shaft needs to be PURED its $30 additional. For installation of grips, CC sells at MAP plus $4 for installation. I was told if they are approached by a customer with a different price exists from a reputable dealer the conversation can be had to match or adjust that price. FYI because it was said earlier and it bothers me Dan's Discount golf is one more sale from losing all their accounts for price skimming, theres a reason they don't show price, they can't, it breaks MAP rules. They are bad for the industry because nobody makes money, when nobody makes money, nobody innovates. You get what you pay for is all I'll say.



    5) Additional Points – When CC's control the process they back the results with their Perfect Fit Guarantee. When CC doesn't control the entire process, CC cannot guarantee the results. If a customer wants to supply the components CC will certainly give you a quote to build your clubs and build them. If you want to buy through the manufacturer, you can do that too. CC to my knowledge will take the time to make sure the manufacturer built it to the specs we provided.



    Again, from my dealings with CC they are an open book. Their goal is to get you the highest performing clubs on the market and everybody puts a different economic value on that. They seem to respect everybody's view on that as well, but they haven't changed their view. Club Champion’s service is for the golfer who doesn’t want to leave any stone unturned to get the best performance possible. It’s not cheap but neither is a AMC Mercedes or a Shelby Ford Mustang. Money creates innovation.




    Also don't forget what else in your life do you spend as much time on as golf. Maybe work, sleep, family. So golf is 4? (Be honest your on this site, it's at least 4th if not higher) I would invest in something that is 4th in my life. Just make sense.




    FYI the reason I normally don't post is I won't argue facts. I leave and you decide. So I won't be responding to any replies. Use what you want, use none.




    Fairways & Greens,




    The GolfFather
  • Ping ZingsPing Zings Posts: 829 ✭✭
    edited Nov 15, 2018 #61
    hmm





    Posted 28 minutes ago



    ad-label.gif





    I am not a representative of Club Champion but as a educated golf industry person who wanted to weigh in on this post. Because I know CC and all other places to buy clubs well.









    Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:06 AM



    ad-label.gif



    As a representative of Club Champion I wanted to weigh in on this post. I also want to thank many of you for kind things written about Club Champion and to clarify and address some of the misconceptions brought up a lot on forums.



    http://golfwrx.com/f.../#entry16409286
This discussion has been closed.