Golf Popularity

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  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy Members Posts: 655 ✭✭
    FourTops wrote:

    llewol007 wrote:

    FourTops wrote:


    So someone takes the time to post a long overview of why golf is on the decline on WRX for a bunch of golf fanatics by default. Not sure what the goal is other than to complain about golf.
    Not complaining, just agreeing that your statement was enough to convince me. Instead of copying what you said, I agree with it.




    You have to take into account the audience and where they live. I'm in SoCal right now and every course is mobbed. Public course prices are well over $100 to have a chance at a 5 hour round. Now in other parts of the country it may be a different story....but from my friend's perspective who don't play at a private club, they wish people would quit.




    Golf in SoCal may be mobbed, but you don't get any Paige Spiranacs or girls like in your avatar at the ranges on the east coast (maybe in FL)...golf in all regions has its pros and its cons :-)



    In all seriousness, back to the original point...maybe this has always been the case, but the stigma about golf being for old, rich white guys, and about golf being a "pleasurable" pursuit rather than "athletic", has made it almost taboo in many of my social circles. I've almost stopped mentioning that I play a lot of golf...it always draws a negative reaction...like I must not be spending enough time at home or at work, or I must support the "elitist" crowd...whatever, but that stigma plays a part, too.
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    LeftDaddy wrote:

    FourTops wrote:

    llewol007 wrote:

    FourTops wrote:


    So someone takes the time to post a long overview of why golf is on the decline on WRX for a bunch of golf fanatics by default. Not sure what the goal is other than to complain about golf.
    Not complaining, just agreeing that your statement was enough to convince me. Instead of copying what you said, I agree with it.




    You have to take into account the audience and where they live. I'm in SoCal right now and every course is mobbed. Public course prices are well over $100 to have a chance at a 5 hour round. Now in other parts of the country it may be a different story....but from my friend's perspective who don't play at a private club, they wish people would quit.




    Golf in SoCal may be mobbed, but you don't get any Paige Spiranacs or girls like in your avatar at the ranges on the east coast (maybe in FL)...golf in all regions has its pros and its cons :-)



    In all seriousness, back to the original point...maybe this has always been the case, but the stigma about golf being for old, rich white guys, and about golf being a "pleasurable" pursuit rather than "athletic", has made it almost taboo in many of my social circles. I've almost stopped mentioning that I play a lot of golf...it always draws a negative reaction...like I must not be spending enough time at home or at work, or I must support the "elitist" crowd...whatever, but that stigma plays a part, too.




    Out in Socal golf is popular. I don't see the stigma aspect. Folks don't have to be rich to play golf. Ask my $89 1-SW set of Ping Eye 2's that I play sometimes. And there's plenty of decent cheap balls. Costco has 3 gloves for $15. And muni's out here can still be $40...I think. Lol.
  • NV825NV825 Just a Baby Fade Posts: 778 ✭✭
    Golf is pretty popular here in Northern Nevada as it has a healthy supply of courses at different price points with some nice high end courses all the way down to the value $20 afternoon rate courses. Equipment can be found for cheap too as a starter set can be bought for $100-200. I've also seen a lot of my friends gravitate to golf more often and them admitting that they now have the bug.



    The majority like to paint the picture of doom and gloom but I see golf only getting more popular as we move forward. I see more parents pushing their kids towards golf as a sport as there's a way less risk that they will get injured and end up with CTE later in life. Golf scholarships can help get junior to college, and then if they are good enough then the money is pretty **** good for a lot of players on tour. The millennial generation is also slowly growing older and with that will come higher level jobs, income, and the intro to golf most likely if they have not been yet.



    We are also in the start of the Tiger 2.0 bump because if he keeps winning, the eye balls and interest are going to keep coming.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    edited Dec 1, 2018 #35
    "I see more parents pushing their kids towards golf as a sport as there's a way less risk that they will get injured and end up with CTE later in life". Great point!



    The cheapest sport is probably tennis because you don't need to belong to an organization to play like soccer., hockey, baseball. I know parents who are shelling out big bucks for kids playing organized sports. One friend said golf would be a LOT cheaper!
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,166 ✭✭
    FourTops wrote:


    "I see more parents pushing their kids towards golf as a sport as there's a way less risk that they will get injured and end up with CTE later in life". Great point!



    The cheapest sport is probably tennis because you don't need to belong to an organization to play like soccer., hockey, baseball. I know parents who are shelling out big bucks for kids playing organized sports. One friend said golf would be a LOT cheaper!




    Golf here is cheap , but to get your kid in it it's not crazy for it to be more expensive than things like soccer or hockey. If you want to get your son/daughter into a good junior program , many places will require you to also be a member at the course. The courses with the best junior programs tend to also be mid/high end courses that are not super cheap to join. However the benefit when compared to Hockey is you can actually use your membership to do something for yourself too....so that is nice. It's not like in Soccer they have a game for adults next to the game for kids LOL....Golf you can hit balls or play while they are getting lessons



    The CTE comment is a real thing for sure. I played football growing up, i have many friends in the 35-45 range who will not let their sons play football.
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:

    FourTops wrote:


    "I see more parents pushing their kids towards golf as a sport as there's a way less risk that they will get injured and end up with CTE later in life". Great point!



    The cheapest sport is probably tennis because you don't need to belong to an organization to play like soccer., hockey, baseball. I know parents who are shelling out big bucks for kids playing organized sports. One friend said golf would be a LOT cheaper!




    Golf here is cheap , but to get your kid in it it's not crazy for it to be more expensive than things like soccer or hockey. If you want to get your son/daughter into a good junior program , many places will require you to also be a member at the course. The courses with the best junior programs tend to also be mid/high end courses that are not super cheap to join. However the benefit when compared to Hockey is you can actually use your membership to do something for yourself too....so that is nice. It's not like in Soccer they have a game for adults next to the game for kids LOL....Golf you can hit balls or play while they are getting lessons



    The CTE comment is a real thing for sure. I played football growing up, i have many friends in the 35-45 range who will not let their sons play football.




    You made a great observation. And yes, some golf programs are not "cheap", but you know as well as I do once you get into the club and get the pro's drunk on Tequila shots...they "overlook" some of the costs.
  • gatorMDgatorMD Hacker-in-Chief ClubWRX Posts: 4,568 ClubWRX
    Time, money, and patience.



    Most people do not have ample amounts of those three which are required for golf, especially if u want to "realize your potential."
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    gatorMD wrote:


    Time, money, and patience.



    Most people do not have ample amounts of those three which are required for golf, especially if u want to "realize your potential."




    Most people aren't broke.
  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,446 ✭✭
    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,166 ✭✭
    Soloman1 wrote:


    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.




    Does mortgage debt count towards this debt figure? Or is the 173K number mostly student loans and other things?



    I never know how they account for mortgages, because you obviously owe a lot to the bank, but it's an asset too where you can make money upon sale



    I mean i owe more than 173K to my bank, but i have more than that number in equity. So i never know how they calculate these things
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,310 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:

    Soloman1 wrote:


    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.




    Does mortgage debt count towards this debt figure? Or is the 173K number mostly student loans and other things?



    I never know how they account for mortgages, because you obviously owe a lot to the bank, but it's an asset too where you can make money upon sale



    I mean i owe more than 173K to my bank, but i have more than that number in equity. So i never know how they calculate these things




    Depends on where you look but it should INCLUDE mortgages.



    Ol' Soloman copied right from an article. Here it says $134K on average and states it DOES include mortgages. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average-credit-card-debt-household/

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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,166 ✭✭
    That actually doesn't seem that bad then from a debt perspective.



    Though the paycheck to paycheck thing isn't good. That is common here too
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    edited Dec 2, 2018 #44
    MtlJeff wrote:

    Soloman1 wrote:


    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.




    Does mortgage debt count towards this debt figure? Or is the 173K number mostly student loans and other things?



    I never know how they account for mortgages, because you obviously owe a lot to the bank, but it's an asset too where you can make money upon sale



    I mean i owe more than 173K to my bank, but i have more than that number in equity. So i never know how they calculate these things




    MtlJeff....Fair market value less mortgage = equity, or what you effectively would "gain or lose" if the asset was sold. If you went to a financial planner, they would tally up all your assets and subtract liens against those assets.
  • @_the_crook@_the_crook Posts: 606 ✭✭
    in our immediate family I can see the shift away from this game.

    only one player out of all the kids in the generation behind me and he hasn't been out regularly for a bit.

    he lives close to a course but has time limits and family responsibilities.

    no one else got the spark.
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    Golf is "as popular" as how good you are.
  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,778 ✭✭
    Being "good" is not a requisite for enjoying the game.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,166 ✭✭
    FourTops wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:

    Soloman1 wrote:


    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.




    Does mortgage debt count towards this debt figure? Or is the 173K number mostly student loans and other things?



    I never know how they account for mortgages, because you obviously owe a lot to the bank, but it's an asset too where you can make money upon sale



    I mean i owe more than 173K to my bank, but i have more than that number in equity. So i never know how they calculate these things




    MtlJeff....Fair market value less mortgage = equity, or what you effectively would "gain or lose" if the asset was sold. If you went to a financial planner, they would tally up all your assets and subtract liens against those assets.




    Thanks, yes that i know and agree, i was just curious with these data points if that's how they calculate it.... i just figure they can't really because it's too hard to factor in home value. So maybe for these "Americans have X amount of debt" they are just considering mortgages and not home value.....which makes it seem like we are poorer than we are
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  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:

    FourTops wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:

    Soloman1 wrote:


    Depends on your definition of “broke.”

    57% of American households have less than $1,000 in savings, while the average household debt is over $173,000.




    Does mortgage debt count towards this debt figure? Or is the 173K number mostly student loans and other things?



    I never know how they account for mortgages, because you obviously owe a lot to the bank, but it's an asset too where you can make money upon sale



    I mean i owe more than 173K to my bank, but i have more than that number in equity. So i never know how they calculate these things




    MtlJeff....Fair market value less mortgage = equity, or what you effectively would "gain or lose" if the asset was sold. If you went to a financial planner, they would tally up all your assets and subtract liens against those assets.




    Thanks, yes that i know and agree, i was just curious with these data points if that's how they calculate it.... i just figure they can't really because it's too hard to factor in home value. So maybe for these "Americans have X amount of debt" they are just considering mortgages and not home value.....which makes it seem like we are poorer than we are




    They take an average and extrapolate from there.
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,121 ✭✭
    I don't think we need research articles to state the obvious that is all around us.

    1. people 40 or younger grew up with video games and their kids obviously even more so as a hobby and interest

    2. the game has always been and IMO, sans any huge rules changes (not needed), will continue to be which hurts it's popularity

    3. it hasn't gotten any cheaper

    4. It take 4-5 hours of time, which in today's world seems like a big time commitment away from work, family, other interests

    5. private clubs are expensive and would be a good glue for young families to the game of golf as they have country club amenities, but entrance cost is high further hurting young participation.

    6. there was an oversupply of courses built in the 80/90's fueled by real estate developments which have consolidated and will need to further consolidate.



    There are other reasons, but I think we can state the above as obvious. Thoughts?
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭
    Another course near me just closed.
  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,446 ✭✭
    Almost 400 courses closed in 2018. Last year was about 200 and it was about 150 per year for the last decade, so the rate accelerated.



    Another 2,000 or so will have to close to better match demand. I think the rate will accelerate more.



    What’s the over/under on 600 next year?
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  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members Posts: 7,347 ✭✭
    A lot of variables and factors...



    When the economy was doing well, TOO MANY courses were built...



    Of those courses that were built, the majority of them were "championship" courses and too difficult for the masses and were more expensive to maintain...



    Saturation of the market plus a struggling economy...



    The normal complaints about golf are...



    - Too Expensive

    - Too Long

    - Too Hard



    There's some truth I suppose...but if one truly LOVES THE GAME, none of those are true issues...



    Today's culture is all about "wanting it now", "needs to be quick", "take the easier path"...Those are probably inaccurate stereotypes, but what the heck...



    We have had decades of golfers looking for the best deals on golf due to competition...



    The instructional industry is a mess...



    Approximately 300 courses are closing per year...That number will start lowering...



    If you LOVE something...time, money, difficulty are no longer issues...
  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,446 ✭✭
    300 per year? Apparently I’m a fool for posting here since no one reads anymore.
    I'm quitting at 6.022 x 10^23 posts.
    Avogadro would be proud.
  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members Posts: 7,347 ✭✭
    I'm not 100% on that number, but I've heard that from what I consider to be a fairly reliable source...
  • Showtime9Showtime9 MonsterHeel Members Posts: 160 ✭✭
    I am 33 Years and old and classify myself as an "Elder Millennial. For guys around my age, they dont have the time as we are all starting families so its much easier to go play beer league hockey or Basketball and be gone for 2 hours (1 extra for a couple of beers after) than it is for 5 or 6.



    Also, around these parts, we only get a good 4 months of golf for the year (5 total, 6 if we are lucky). Its still to expensive for some to join a club and justify the membership by not getting your monies worth of rounds for the year.



    In an age where we all suffer from A.D.D. its tough to go out for some people and not look at their phones for 5 hours and commit to something otherwise. Few people want to work at something rather settling for immediate gratification. Golf will never give someone immediate gratification that we are so accustomed to now in the modern era.
  • sthompson42sthompson42 Texas42 Members Posts: 69 ✭✭
    I can’t remember which one, but I heard the argument on a podcast that we should “shrink” the game instead of the focus on “growing” it. Not sure I 100% agree but I do thing one has to accept that it’s not a game for everyone. I love the challenge of self improvement and the subtle skills involved whether it’s reading a green, creativity/touch with a chip or hitting a long drive that gives that perfect angle in. It’s not a “quick” sport. I play fast and despise slow rounds, but there also is a beauty to the pace of this game in between shots. I don’t really feel the need to defend the game or change it to give it mass appeal. I’m ok with a niche hobby/sport that many don’t understand or prefer not to play. Maybe figuring out how to rightsize the game is an approach. With all that said, I support getting kids involved who really want to but don’t have the means or access. I don’t want an exclusive or elite form of the sport. I’m ok with a smaller and diverse golf community.
  • Showtime9Showtime9 MonsterHeel Members Posts: 160 ✭✭
    I also think they need to promote a "9 holes" round more than 18. You see the commercials during tour events by the USGA but courses need to follow by creating a "9 hole" rate and promoting it just as much as an "18 hole rate".
  • Sonja HenieSonja Henie Members Posts: 108 ✭✭
    A bunch of courses around me are offering that foot golf thing just to get more people to spend $ at the course.
  • MountainGoatMountainGoat Mid-MarylandMembers Posts: 1,582 ✭✭


    A bunch of courses around me are offering that foot golf thing just to get more people to spend $ at the course.




    Foot golf thing?
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,659 ✭✭
    mikpga wrote:


    I'm not 100% on that number, but I've heard that from what I consider to be a fairly reliable source...




    He posted the numbers a post or two above your post.
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