Why isn't there a stronger correlation between fairways hit and GIR?

LongWayToGoLongWayToGo Members Posts: 19
edited Nov 24, 2018 in Tour Talk #1
I was looking at the stats for fairways hit and GIR and I didn't see a very strong correlation between the two, which I found surprising. It would seem as though the guys who hit fairways should also be able to find more greens than the rest of the field. Would anyone be able to shed some light on this phenomena?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • shoot4parshoot4par Life's A Course ClubWRX Posts: 129 ClubWRX
    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.
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  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭
    Look at the correlation between high percentage fairway players and their driving distance. 100 from the rough and 150 from the fairway hit the green at around the same clip
    Enjoy the chase.
  • LongWayToGoLongWayToGo Members Posts: 19
    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭

    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn’t matter. This year my fairways hit would’ve ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there’s a point where you’re so close to the green it doesn’t matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo
    Enjoy the chase.
  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 2,907 ✭✭

    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.




    Yeah but as McCann pointed out, you're forgetting the discrepancies in distance among varying players.



    What you, individually do from the fairway vs rough is a totally different question...
  • OrangeGravyOrangeGravy WAPosts: 1,128 ✭✭

    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.




    To me this argument when it pops up is about terminology. "Fairways Hit" is the wrong terminology. It doesn't capture drives that are off the fairway that play as if they were still on the fairway. Simple as that. It's all about playable drives vs not playable. has nothing to do with the "fairway" and it should be a combined stat that includes includes distance left to the green somehow.
  • LongWayToGoLongWayToGo Members Posts: 19
    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    Ah, makes sense. I only hit my driver about 290(something) with roll on average. So it's important for me to be in the fairway. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.




    To me this argument when it pops up is about terminology. "Fairways Hit" is the wrong terminology. It doesn't capture drives that are off the fairway that play as if they were still on the fairway. Simple as that. It's all about playable drives vs not playable. has nothing to do with the "fairway" and it should be a combined stat that includes includes distance left to the green somehow.
    the stat you’re thinking of is called strokes gained
    Enjoy the chase.
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭

    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    Ah, makes sense. I only hit my driver about 290(something) with roll on average. So it's important for me to be in the fairway. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!
    the most important thing is having the right angle into the flag. Sometimes a good tee shot isn’t always in the short stuff. I’ll take my clear shot up the gut of the green from the rough vs fairway but a short sided angle more often than not
    Enjoy the chase.
  • LongWayToGoLongWayToGo Members Posts: 19
    McCann1 wrote:


    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    Ah, makes sense. I only hit my driver about 290(something) with roll on average. So it's important for me to be in the fairway. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!
    the most important thing is having the right angle into the flag. Sometimes a good tee shot isn't always in the short stuff. I'll take my clear shot up the gut of the green from the rough vs fairway but a short sided angle more often than not




    I got you. Leaving yourself an angle so you're not hitting over water or into a green side bunker (fried egg) with little to no green to work with if possible... Course management, it's an ongoing lesson.
  • OrangeGravyOrangeGravy WAPosts: 1,128 ✭✭
    McCann1 wrote:



    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.




    To me this argument when it pops up is about terminology. "Fairways Hit" is the wrong terminology. It doesn't capture drives that are off the fairway that play as if they were still on the fairway. Simple as that. It's all about playable drives vs not playable. has nothing to do with the "fairway" and it should be a combined stat that includes includes distance left to the green somehow.
    the stat you're thinking of is called strokes gained




    Yes you are correct. I should have guessed even though I don't know what all goes into it.
  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 490 ✭✭


    I was looking at the stats for fairways hit and GIR and I didn't see a very strong correlation between the two, which I found surprising. It would seem as though the guys who hit fairways should also be able to find more greens than the rest of the field. Would anyone be able to shed some light on this phenomena?




    Stats nerd time.



    Did you actually run a correlation calculation? If you did I think what you would find is that they are in fact positively correlated. Similarly if you ran a correlation calculation between driving distance and GIR you would also see that they are positively correlated. I have no idea which one is more positively correlated.



    Regarding the strokes gained comments you need to be specific. In the context of this conversation strokes gained off the tee is the one that matters since there are multiple strokes gained stats (putting, approach, etc).
  • DLYskes1976DLYskes1976 BigSexy Members Posts: 45
    i know a few years ago I read somewhere about how Bubba Watson's FIR wasn't that great, but his scoring and GIR was... and Bubba came out and said something about how he'd rather be 125 or closer to the green and just off the fairway, than to be in the fairway and 150+ from the green....



    I've had some rounds when I was hitting the ball really well, but was just off the fairway and would get a decent lie in the short rough... and was still able to stick the ball on the green in my next shot... I know it doesnt always make sense, but i tend to hit the ball better from the 1st cut, than off the fairway lol.....
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 24,961 ✭✭

    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.






    Eh. I learned the game with a wild but long driver and from Bermuda rough. So I’m used to approaches from the rough with wedges. Some days I actually comment that I’d hit more greens if I could miss a few fairways. Lol. Inside 150 yards it’s really a non issue from a GIR standpoint. Now getting it closer is another story. Proximity is where you should look. Does it change from the rough ?
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  • delmerdelmer ClubWRX Posts: 439 ClubWRX
    McCann1 wrote:


    Look at the correlation between high percentage fairway players and their driving distance. 100 from the rough and 150 from the fairway hit the green at around the same clip




    This is my thought. It would also be nice to see the severity of the miss on the tee shots. I personally would hit more greens with a wedge from the rough than I would with a 6 iron from the fairway.
  • deboer69deboer69 Members Posts: 24 ClubWRX
    I think will all the different settings on today's drivers, you find find the right setting to make your driver go straight. You can't do that with irons. You have to hit them straight and the correct distance. With a driver you can just swing away. I know I can hit 4 out of 5 fairways but I'm lucky if I can get 50% GIRs.
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  • SurfDufferSurfDuffer Posts: 3,008 ClubWRX
    The rough simply isn't deep or thick enough.
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  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn’t matter. This year my fairways hit would’ve ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there’s a point where you’re so close to the green it doesn’t matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    That kind of comparison makes no sense. Unless you're playing on pga tour courses you can't compare your stats to theirs. Elite ams would likely have more GIR and FIR than pga tour players because their avg course is easier
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭
    edited Nov 24, 2018 #20
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn’t matter. This year my fairways hit would’ve ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there’s a point where you’re so close to the green it doesn’t matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    That kind of comparison makes no sense. Unless you're playing on pga tour courses you can't compare your stats to theirs. Elite ams would likely have more GIR and FIR than pga tour players because their avg course is easier
    I played on the Canadian tour this season. And yes it makes perfect sense. That is exactly what the whole strokes gained statistics spell out
    Enjoy the chase.
  • terrell75terrell75 Posts: 223
    edited Nov 24, 2018 #21
    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    Ah, makes sense. I only hit my driver about 290(something) with roll on average. So it's important for me to be in the fairway. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!




    This is the way of things. There are some, maybe many, who hit the ball long off the tee, and even some who can do so with some degree of accuracy. They play a slightly different game than those who do not. Some courses do not allow this to be an advantage, but most do.



    It is well known by now that hitting it long is the greatest gateway to scoring well. Not that it is the only way. I can’t quote fact here but I’ll wager that long hitters outnumber elite ballstrikers. Add a little short game and a little putty-putt to a long hitters game and watch out.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,342 ClubWRX
    edited Nov 25, 2018 #22

    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    Ah, makes sense. I only hit my driver about 290(something) with roll on average. So it's important for me to be in the fairway. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!




    "Only" 290 average drives - lol.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • BNGLBNGL Members Posts: 1,557 ✭✭
    McCann1 wrote:
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn’t matter. This year my fairways hit would’ve ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there’s a point where you’re so close to the green it doesn’t matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    That kind of comparison makes no sense. Unless you're playing on pga tour courses you can't compare your stats to theirs. Elite ams would likely have more GIR and FIR than pga tour players because their avg course is easier
    I played on the Canadian tour this season. And yes it makes perfect sense. That is exactly what the whole strokes gained statistics spell out




    Whoa nicely done! You move up to the Web this year and make the Can Open?
  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    McCann1 wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    McCann1 wrote:


    shoot4par wrote:


    Drivers ideally hit slightly on the upswing, irons are normally leaned and hit down on... Just a thought. I'm a good driver of the golf ball who doesn't hit the irons particularly well from a GIR perspective.




    I understand the mechanical differences between a driver and iron swing. For me, the more fairways I hit, the easier it is for me to hit greens. Maybe I should start keeping a better record of my fairway/GIR ratio.
    that doesn't matter. This year my fairways hit would've ranked me around 60th on tour but I was ranked 4th in GIR. Why? Because when I hit it 320 I usually missed the fairway but I was hitting SW into the green when most of my playing partners hit 8i or more. Yes being in the fairway certainly helps, but there's a point where you're so close to the green it doesn't matter. You should keep track of strokes gained vs outdated Fairways, Greens, Putts imo




    That kind of comparison makes no sense. Unless you're playing on pga tour courses you can't compare your stats to theirs. Elite ams would likely have more GIR and FIR than pga tour players because their avg course is easier
    I played on the Canadian tour this season. And yes it makes perfect sense. That is exactly what the whole strokes gained statistics spell out




    and why strokes gained is a poor measure if you're playing on different level courses. It's more applicable for you because the courses aren't going to be vastly different but for an average am it will not be as relevant.



    hitting it close from 100 yards is much different on a cow pasture than a course with fast firm greens for instance.
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭
    You don’t get it. It has been proven closer in the rough is similar if not better than further away in the fairway.
    Enjoy the chase.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,342 ClubWRX
    deboer69 wrote:


    I think will all the different settings on today's drivers, you find find the right setting to make your driver go straight. You can't do that with irons. You have to hit them straight and the correct distance. With a driver you can just swing away. I know I can hit 4 out of 5 fairways but I'm lucky if I can get 50% GIRs.




    If only.



    But congrats - at 80% and with the driver, you are way ahead of any PGA/Euro Tour players the past decade.
  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    McCann1 wrote:


    You don't get it. It has been proven closer in the rough is similar if not better than further away in the fairway.




    huh? I don't think you're talking about what I am. I'm saying the stats aren't comparable if you aren't playing on similar courses. you said you're on canadian tour so I said those stats are probably more closely comparable to pga tour. however someone who plays at a wide open muni, their stats are not well comparable to the pga tour.
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • McCann1McCann1 Tour Player Members Posts: 1,723 ✭✭
    pinhigh27 wrote:

    McCann1 wrote:


    You don't get it. It has been proven closer in the rough is similar if not better than further away in the fairway.




    huh? I don't think you're talking about what I am. I'm saying the stats aren't comparable if you aren't playing on similar courses. you said you're on canadian tour so I said those stats are probably more closely comparable to pga tour. however someone who plays at a wide open muni, their stats are not well comparable to the pga tour.
    I’m sorry you’re right about that. But the correlation is still there. Anybody is better off the closer they are
    Enjoy the chase.
  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,573 ✭✭
    right, agreed
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • shoot4parshoot4par Life's A Course ClubWRX Posts: 129 ClubWRX
    edited Nov 25, 2018 #30
    McCann1 wrote:


    You don't get it. It has been proven closer in the rough is similar if not better than further away in the fairway.




    On a really difficult golf course id rather be in the fairway, having an idea on how my ball will react on the green then further in the rough (case in point Oakmont, Bethpage, (Tournament conditions, FAST greens)) (IMHO). Also one can't offer an opinion like that without statistical evidence (who are we even talking about- tour players? quality amateurs?).
    Jones did it with corn whiskey. Hogan with cigarettes & Tiger with will.
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    Putter: I try to change everyday to ward off monotony and consistency

    WITB
  • c7015c7015 Members Posts: 2,078 ✭✭
    edited Nov 25, 2018 #31


    I was looking at the stats for fairways hit and GIR and I didn't see a very strong correlation between the two, which I found surprising. It would seem as though the guys who hit fairways should also be able to find more greens than the rest of the field. Would anyone be able to shed some light on this phenomena?




    I would hypothesize that because they hit the fairway they get more aggressive to a pin (scoring opportunity) vs the ones who miss and adjust the goal to the center of the green (GIR objective).



    Edit and Mark Brodie is the guy who can likely shed more light on this subject.
    915 D3 Rip Phenom 70g (S Flex)
    913 FD 3 wood Whiteboard (X Flex)
    915 F 5 wood Blueboard (S Flex)
    712 U 4 Iron | 714 AP2 5 Iron
    714cb 6-PW
    Vokey 52, 56, 60
    SC Newport 2.5
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