Help understand "fire the hips"

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  • ebrasmus21ebrasmus21 Serial Shanker Members Posts: 5,187 ✭✭
    This is what I’ve come to understand as “fire the hips” in my swing. Monte please correct me if I’m wrong in articulating.



    Working on my pivot with the ideas of getting some flexion in transition (belt-buckle down like Monte has taught me) while getting pressure into my lead heel. Once I get pressure into my lead heel I can push hard iinto the ground (with my lead leg) while I try to rotate my hips as hard as I can. This is what I’ve come to understand as “fire the hips”.



    This allows me to get a lot of space for my arms, club on plane, solid compression and exiting nice and low-left.
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  • Precis1onPrecis1on Members Posts: 94
    edited Nov 29, 2018 #33


    "Fire the hips" is just an expression that attempts to get the average golfer to activate a part of their body that is currently dead. I hardly ever see an adult amateur with over-active hips.




    My hips used to be more active than freaking Elvis. Result? My body ended up in a terrible position to hit the golf ball.



    Once I started working on quieting them (and am STILL working) and fixing other flaws in my swing, I hit it straighter, farther, and with 90% less effort.
  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,201 ✭✭



    "Fire the hips" is just an expression that attempts to get the average golfer to activate a part of their body that is currently dead. I hardly ever see an adult amateur with over-active hips.




    I see it every day all day.




    Then you probably work with younger guys than I do. The crowd I see tends to have spent their lives building up their upper body musculature to the point that they only use their hips and legs to stand up. I can't think of a single guy that suffers from the 'spin out' move that everyone here seems to be afraid of. It's the high school kids with rubber spines that seem to have issues, but I don't work with them.




    Lots of guys who are square at impact are square because the hips fire too early and then need to stall for the arms to catch up. Some might just look at impact and say their hips are under rotated, so telling them to fire the hips more will only make it worse.
  • MPStratMPStrat Members Posts: 942 ClubWRX
    The worst part about this bit of advice is that it's the simple golf digest tip that everyone wants to believe will make their swing more powerful. As amateurs we love this kind of stuff because it's three words and we don't have to google scary terms that we think are snake oil because we've never heard them.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    I suggest getting your hips almost pointed at the target at impact first. Otherwise folks "Fire the Hips" and the arms and wrists are like WTF? Way behind and out of position.
  • _Red__Red_ Members Posts: 32
    macedan wrote:


    Tread carefully here...



    Firing this hips led me to have upper body rotation that is way behind my lower body leading to me getting stuck beyond belief and hitting push fades, hooks, and a foot behind the ball.




    Spent a fair period a couple of seasons ago fighting it.



    Was one of my more demoralising spells of golf.
  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy SoDakClubWRX Posts: 1,440 ClubWRX
    The "Fire the hips" thought has definitely caused me issues and is still an issue in my swing. I get disconnected with my arms trailing my hips, hips stall at pretty much square to target and then I flip/dumb my leverage in an effort to make contact and square the face.



    gCp0Eas.jpg



    I'm sure Monte could explain in better detail

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  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,169 ✭✭
    Cam fires the hips rather nicely...



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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,605 ✭✭
    It seems to me that 'firing the hips' suggests that this motion creates power, eg, speed of hip rotation increases ss, linking back up to shoulder turn speed, etc That seems misleading.



    What does make sense to me is hip motion and especially getting force into the ground from lead leg creates space for the arms to swing, trail elbow to stay on a good plane, and propels greater speed. So the term 'fire the hips' at least for me created the wrong impression of what is helpful.
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Members Posts: 3,291 ✭✭
    Bought the Sheftic pressure board. Really looking forward to getting it. I've worked pretty much this season on transition and pressure - but frankly the lift the lead leg drill doesn't really work for me and finding a nice little downhill lie is hard to do at a range. Board not only gives the sense of the downhill move to start the swing but helps with posture/balance and sequencing. Saw it on the AMG video on fire the hips that I posted. Mark will get you onto his facebook page where he has further information on how to use the board, clips from lessons with it, etc. He already has a handful of video on his website about it's use.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,169 ✭✭
    glk wrote:


    Bought the Sheftic pressure board. Really looking forward to getting it. I've worked pretty much this season on transition and pressure - but frankly the lift the lead leg drill doesn't really work for me and finding a nice little downhill lie is hard to do at a range. Board not only gives the sense of the downhill move to start the swing but helps with posture/balance and sequencing. Saw it on the AMG video on fire the hips that I posted. Mark will get you onto his facebook page where he has further information on how to use the board, clips from lessons with it, etc. He already has a handful of video on his website about it's use.




    Maybe A hair off topic but I saw a great Instagram post yesterday by the AMG guys on lateral “slide” and hip rotation in powerful golf swings.



    3 tour pros data and one long drive pros data side by side. Interesting stuff. Check it out....



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  • OakLawnGolfProOakLawnGolfPro Members Posts: 147 ✭✭
    Article I did 2 years ago on GolfWRX on the subject . http://www.golfwrx.com/434068/develop-your-speed-in-your-golf-swing-but-dont-forget-the-brakes/



    You'll see the student gained distance and accuracy by not firing, but learning correct sequence and breaking.
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  • kyledeenkyledeen Members Posts: 411 ✭✭
    edited Nov 30, 2018 #44
    Chubbs Petersen preached use of the hips. and not being a **** fool. those are the fundamentals a rock solid game is built upon.
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  • Krt22Krt22 Members Posts: 6,201 ✭✭
    edited Nov 30, 2018 #45


    Cam fires the hips rather nicely...







    More important than that is how forward he gets the hands in front of those fast firing hips



    Cameron-Champ-power-move-swing-intro.jpg
  • dasamsdasams Members Posts: 241 ✭✭
    Another view of Cam and his hips. No one clears 'em better.
  • MPStratMPStrat Members Posts: 942 ClubWRX


    Cam fires the hips rather nicely...







    He has great rotation, no doubt. I love how he sets himself up to pivot hard early in the downswing. But there's a whole heck of a lot more going on there than "fire the hips." If an adult beginner hears "fire the hips" and then executes a swing that even remotely resembles what Cameron Champ does, they will be the first.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    Real quick...it's the equivalent of stepping into hitting a baseball or throwing a football.
  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,553 ✭✭
    Very open hips at impact is a sign of flexibility and not necessarily correct technique. You can only turn your hips as much as you can dissasociate them from your shoulders. If you don't have the flexibility trying to get hips more open will result in coming over the top because you can't keep your shoulders from spinning out.



    Even Hogan lost his ability to get his hips significantly open at impact in his senior years. You will find most players who clear their hips a lot are younger athletic players and the ladies who are generally more flexible than males.







  • ZitlowZitlow Members Posts: 116 ✭✭
    The legs and hips are like shock absorbers they provide stability, support and balance. If anyone tells you to bump your hips, don't walk, run from them.
  • BKN1964BKN1964 Members Posts: 958 ✭✭
    I thought I read either here or on the main site (I think it was Dan Carraher, but I could be wrong), that things like shaft lean and how open your hips are at impact are a result of how fast you're swinging, not the other way around.



    In other words, people who swing fast have a lot of shaft lean and their hips are wide open because it's needed to accommodate their fast swing. Someone who swings slower doesn't need need as much of these things, and trying to force it would be out of balance with their swing and would likely produce sub-optimal results.



    The vision that comes to mind for me is chopping down a tree with an axe. If you're taking easy swings, your hips will lead by a little. If you're swinging hard, your hips will be way out in front because it's not really possible to swing fast without doing so.
  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy SoDakClubWRX Posts: 1,440 ClubWRX
    BKN1964 wrote:


    I thought I read either here or on the main site (I think it was Dan Carraher, but I could be wrong), that things like shaft lean and how open your hips are at impact are a result of how fast you're swinging, not the other way around.



    In other words, people who swing fast have a lot of shaft lean and their hips are wide open because it's needed to accommodate their fast swing. Someone who swings slower doesn't need need as much of these things, and trying to force it would be out of balance with their swing and would likely produce sub-optimal results.



    The vision that comes to mind for me is chopping down a tree with an axe. If you're taking easy swings, your hips will lead by a little. If you're swinging hard, your hips will be way out in front because it's not really possible to swing fast without doing so.




    I'm not an instructor so I don't know squat to be an authority on the topic. However, I don't know what you would quantify as swinging the club fast but I can get the driver up to 110-112mph going after it and I pretty much have square hips at impact and have lost/dumped shaft lean (yes I have swing flaws that contribute to this). The hips don't just get open & the shaft leaning due from speed alone, proper sequencing and other factors influence it as well.

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  • MPStratMPStrat Members Posts: 942 ClubWRX
    BKN1964 wrote:


    I thought I read either here or on the main site (I think it was Dan Carraher, but I could be wrong), that things like shaft lean and how open your hips are at impact are a result of how fast you're swinging, not the other way around.



    In other words, people who swing fast have a lot of shaft lean and their hips are wide open because it's needed to accommodate their fast swing. Someone who swings slower doesn't need need as much of these things, and trying to force it would be out of balance with their swing and would likely produce sub-optimal results.



    The vision that comes to mind for me is chopping down a tree with an axe. If you're taking easy swings, your hips will lead by a little. If you're swinging hard, your hips will be way out in front because it's not really possible to swing fast without doing so.




    Joe Miller is goat humping with completely square hips at impact
  • OakLawnGolfProOakLawnGolfPro Members Posts: 147 ✭✭
    edited Dec 4, 2018 #54




    Did a video here with some tips I use. In 3D world, if you add right side bend, you will read more open, but you have to get to that point the right way or you're in trouble. Hope this helps!
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  • SilkySilky Members Posts: 727 ✭✭
    [sharedmedia=core:attachments:4709778]



    We would look awkward and weak doing a sidearm throw without "clearing the hips".



    A good human golf swing can have 2 levers - the left arm as the top lever and the right forearm as the lower lever. After transition, with the right forearm external rotated and about perpendicular to the spine while the right elbow affixed to the right hip, "firing the hips" create a force couple powering the lower lever.



    That is my understanding.
  • ZitlowZitlow Members Posts: 116 ✭✭
    Another way of looking at a golf swing motion.



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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,188 ✭✭
    edited Dec 4, 2018 #57
    How open your hips get is a function of many things.



    COM of club in transition

    Face angle

    Side bend

    Lateral hip movement amount

    Flexibility

    hand path



    I could go on.



    If none of those things matchup for open hips and all you try and do is get hips open....have fun.
  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,553 ✭✭
    Silky wrote:






    We would look awkward and weak doing a sidearm throw without "clearing the hips".



    A good human golf swing can have 2 levers - the left arm as the top lever and the right forearm as the lower lever. After transition, with the right forearm external rotated and about perpendicular to the spine while the right elbow affixed to the right hip, "firing the hips" create a force couple powering the lower lever.



    That is my understanding.


    Moe is a poor example of clearing the hips. According to Jim Suttie who was a trusted friend, Moe was totally against open hips at impact. He wanted everything square and facing the ball at impact. He called this square tracking and you can see in slow motion videos of his swing his hips are barely open at impact, certainly much less open than the average pro.



    The pic you posted is not from a swing of Moe. It is from a demonstration of his "vertical drop and horizontal tug" move.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭


    https://youtu.be/0DG3anfYiiw



    Did a video here with some tips I use. In 3D world, if you add right side bend, you will read more open, but you have to get to that point the right way or you're in trouble. Hope this helps!




    Good video! What gets lost in the swing, and what instructors (for me) don't teach is we need to mimic the "step in" motion we use when throwing a ball or a rock across a pond. It's hard because we can't actually step-in...but that explains why Player would hit and walk forward....continuing the "step-in" move.
  • FourTopsFourTops Banned Posts: 1,676 ✭✭
    dap wrote:

    Silky wrote:


    We would look awkward and weak doing a sidearm throw without "clearing the hips".



    A good human golf swing can have 2 levers - the left arm as the top lever and the right forearm as the lower lever. After transition, with the right forearm external rotated and about perpendicular to the spine while the right elbow affixed to the right hip, "firing the hips" create a force couple powering the lower lever.



    That is my understanding.


    Moe is a poor example of clearing the hips. According to Jim Suttie who was a trusted friend, Moe was totally against open hips at impact. He wanted everything square and facing the ball at impact. He called this square tracking and you can see in slow motion videos of his swing his hips are barely open at impact, certainly much less open than the average pro.



    The pic you posted is not from a swing of Moe. It is from a demonstration of his "vertical drop and horizontal tug" move.




    You MUST BE a film editor! Great catch!
  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ClubWRX
    Warning. Mid-capper opinion incoming...



    I’ve gained a lot of clubhead speed in the last year. A portion of that was due to using hip rotation as a foundation on which to rotate my trunk and arms. Layers of rotation creating speed.



    Having said that I personally don’t like the term ‘firing the hips’ at all, largely because it gave me the idea of some sort of spasmodic ‘power twitch’ that did absolutely nothing for me.



    As I gain speed, hip rotation is something I feel and utilize more and more, but it’s not some sort of explosive pyrotechnic phenomenon, it’s simply a controlled buildup of rotational speed in the hips that’s essentially driven by the legs and glutes.



    The way I feel it best outside of a driver swing is to simply take a golf posture with no club and put my hands in my pockets. That locks out trunk rotation and arm rotation for me. Now, if I make a backswing move followed by a through-swing move that way it’s all hip rotation, and is really easy to feel in that isolated way. For me, there’s certainly more rotation and a greater buildup of speed than there was when I was 15 mph slower. But, I feel that as a leg/glute driven move... not as a ‘firing’.



    Finally, where the hips finish at impact is surely based on how you sequence, how the various movements in the swing have to match up to hit a straight shot, and when and how hard the upper segments are rotated. I’m not sure the position at impact (e.g. square) necessarily proves that the hips weren’t effectively rotated in the golf swing.
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