Why am I flipping?

stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
edited Dec 5, 2018 in Instruction & Academy #1
I seem to flipping the club at the bottom.



I think it may have something to do with my right arm collapsing or folding past 90*, what do you think?



FO Swing:



DTL Swing:



edited to add down the line swing.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    Your releasing and flipping because if you didn't you wouldn't even hit the ball. There are plenty of people here that can tell you why that is.
  • stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
    b_f_c_99 wrote:


    Your releasing and flipping because if you didn't you wouldn't even hit the ball. There are plenty of people here that can tell you why that is.


    Thanks that's what I thought
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,292 ✭✭
    edited Dec 4, 2018 #4
    Not reginaing flexion properly and it doesn’t look like you’re right tilting at impact enough.



    Need dtl
  • thatgreenbroncothatgreenbronco Members Posts: 1
    I did this exact thing, just not quite as drastic. I fixed it with a stronger grip (rotate your hands, not harder) and doing the things in this video.
  • carreracarrera Members Posts: 2,565 ✭✭


    I did this exact thing, just not quite as drastic. I fixed it with a stronger grip (rotate your hands, not harder) and doing the things in this video. https://youtu.be/LsYIrXIF29k




    Welcome to the forum and thanks for your first post, but that video is unlikely to be helpful to the OP, who has the issues identified by Monte above (lack of flexion and right side bend on downswing). Need a DTL video as noted above to be sure.



    As an aside, the guy in the video sure has a weird left arm at P5-5.5 in that video. Not sure what's going on to get that left arm bend at that point in the downswing.
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  • stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
    Down the line added guys
  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    edited Dec 5, 2018 #8
    Hopefully Monte or the other instructors will chime in. Nice video btw. Have you ever noticed how during high really good swings the head gets lower than where it started? Yours doesn’t. If you were to create shaft lean or lag through the hitting area you would miss the ball entirely. Since your brain doesn’t want to miss the ball it releases the club early. Pretty fantastic athletic motion when you think about it. How do you fix this? I would get a lesson from a qualified instructor. I don’t think you need a massive swing rebuild. Just a better understanding of what your really trying to do with the club.
  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro ALClubWRX Posts: 3,257 ClubWRX
    You aren’t turning through impact so your arms lose momentum and the club head passes the hands.



    There’s an app for iPhone called golfmtrx. It will show you your hip movement through the swing. Get it and work on turning more while maintaining some right side bend.
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  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    bogeypro wrote:


    You aren’t turning through impact so your arms lose momentum and the club head passes the hands.



    There’s an app for iPhone called golfmtrx. It will show you your hip movement through the swing. Get it and work on turning more while maintaining some right side bend.




    He doesn’t shallow the club at all. I would be concerned that without a better understanding of sequencing he will just really create a massive over the top move if he just starts flinging his hips around. That or a really cool goat hump move. It looks like someone told him to keep his head still when he first started and then it evolved from there.
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,292 ✭✭
    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.
  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,600 ClubWRX
    bogeypro wrote:


    You aren't turning through impact so your arms lose momentum and the club head passes the hands.



    There's an app for iPhone called golfmtrx. It will show you your hip movement through the swing. Get it and work on turning more while maintaining some right side bend.




    That app looks cool - sadly as an Android user it appears I'm stuck on the outside looking in!

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  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭


    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.




    ddets, Listen to Monte, better yet he has the video, pay him for an online lesson. It's easy to see WHAT is happening in a nice slow motion swing. The hard part is to back it up to the root and fix what starts the sequence of events. Trying random stuff that doesn't relate to the root cause will just create other problems. Monte has an incredible ability to pinpoint what the cause is, it will be up to you to do the work. I watched him at one of his seminars work with 20 different people, and each of them had something different that was the real issue.
  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,600 ClubWRX
    b_f_c_99 wrote:



    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.




    ddets, Listen to Monte, better yet he has the video, pay him for an online lesson. It's easy to see WHAT is happening in a nice slow motion swing. The hard part is to back it up to the root and fix what starts the sequence of events. Trying random stuff that doesn't relate to the root cause will just create other problems. Monte has an incredible ability to pinpoint what the cause is, it will be up to you to do the work. I watched him at one of his seminars work with 20 different people, and each of them had something different that was the real issue.




    I'm not the OP, so not sure if this was meant for me. However, I will say that I too also have a stall/flip problem at the moment.



    I attended one of Monte's clinic here in early June this year, and have been working on my major flaws (grip too weak and having an open clubface in downswing, backswing too long causing my arms to trail my body). I've seen some improvements in both shortening my backswing and getting the grip stronger but still need more improvement to both. The area I am still struggling is getting my arms not to trail, and having my lower bad stall and then flip/dump my angles early to save it.



    I'm planning on doing an online lesson to get an update and direction on how to keep moving forward, but my guess is a bit of the response is going to be plenty of the same things he's been telling me I still do wrong.

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  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    ddetts wrote:

    b_f_c_99 wrote:



    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.




    ddets, Listen to Monte, better yet he has the video, pay him for an online lesson. It's easy to see WHAT is happening in a nice slow motion swing. The hard part is to back it up to the root and fix what starts the sequence of events. Trying random stuff that doesn't relate to the root cause will just create other problems. Monte has an incredible ability to pinpoint what the cause is, it will be up to you to do the work. I watched him at one of his seminars work with 20 different people, and each of them had something different that was the real issue.




    I'm not the OP, so not sure if this was meant for me. However, I will say that I too also have a stall/flip problem at the moment.



    I attended one of Monte's clinic here in early June this year, and have been working on my major flaws (grip too weak and having an open clubface in downswing, backswing too long causing my arms to trail my body). I've seen some improvements in both shortening my backswing and getting the grip stronger but still need more improvement to both. The area I am still struggling is getting my arms not to trail, and having my lower bad stall and then flip/dump my angles early to save it.



    I'm planning on doing an online lesson to get an update and direction on how to keep moving forward, but my guess is a bit of the response is going to be plenty of the same things he's been telling me I still do wrong.




    Whooops so sorry! I got you mixed up, good on ya for going to Monte's clinic, very enlightening. and now..............



    stugolf, see above posts!
  • stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
    b_f_c_99 wrote:

    ddetts wrote:

    b_f_c_99 wrote:



    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.




    ddets, Listen to Monte, better yet he has the video, pay him for an online lesson. It's easy to see WHAT is happening in a nice slow motion swing. The hard part is to back it up to the root and fix what starts the sequence of events. Trying random stuff that doesn't relate to the root cause will just create other problems. Monte has an incredible ability to pinpoint what the cause is, it will be up to you to do the work. I watched him at one of his seminars work with 20 different people, and each of them had something different that was the real issue.




    I'm not the OP, so not sure if this was meant for me. However, I will say that I too also have a stall/flip problem at the moment.



    I attended one of Monte's clinic here in early June this year, and have been working on my major flaws (grip too weak and having an open clubface in downswing, backswing too long causing my arms to trail my body). I've seen some improvements in both shortening my backswing and getting the grip stronger but still need more improvement to both. The area I am still struggling is getting my arms not to trail, and having my lower bad stall and then flip/dump my angles early to save it.



    I'm planning on doing an online lesson to get an update and direction on how to keep moving forward, but my guess is a bit of the response is going to be plenty of the same things he's been telling me I still do wrong.




    Whooops so sorry! I got you mixed up, good on ya for going to Monte's clinic, very enlightening. and now..............



    stugolf, see above posts!




    Yes it all makes total sense, went to the range to try this out, I seemed to be able to get more tilt, but can't seem to get my arms down:



    My camera ran out so I couldn't get down the line!



    Swing after:
  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    stugolf wrote:

    b_f_c_99 wrote:

    ddetts wrote:

    b_f_c_99 wrote:



    What I said before is the big issue and it’s not happening because pelvis isn’t turning/moving properly on the backswing. Left knee needs to bend and come out more, that will force you to extend to not lose your balance. That will allow/force you to regain flexion, then right tilt at impact.



    As BFF said, it you didn’t flip, your hit it much worse.




    ddets, Listen to Monte, better yet he has the video, pay him for an online lesson. It's easy to see WHAT is happening in a nice slow motion swing. The hard part is to back it up to the root and fix what starts the sequence of events. Trying random stuff that doesn't relate to the root cause will just create other problems. Monte has an incredible ability to pinpoint what the cause is, it will be up to you to do the work. I watched him at one of his seminars work with 20 different people, and each of them had something different that was the real issue.




    I'm not the OP, so not sure if this was meant for me. However, I will say that I too also have a stall/flip problem at the moment.



    I attended one of Monte's clinic here in early June this year, and have been working on my major flaws (grip too weak and having an open clubface in downswing, backswing too long causing my arms to trail my body). I've seen some improvements in both shortening my backswing and getting the grip stronger but still need more improvement to both. The area I am still struggling is getting my arms not to trail, and having my lower bad stall and then flip/dump my angles early to save it.



    I'm planning on doing an online lesson to get an update and direction on how to keep moving forward, but my guess is a bit of the response is going to be plenty of the same things he's been telling me I still do wrong.




    Whooops so sorry! I got you mixed up, good on ya for going to Monte's clinic, very enlightening. and now..............



    stugolf, see above posts!




    Yes it all makes total sense, went to the range to try this out, I seemed to be able to get more tilt, but can't seem to get my arms down:



    My camera ran out so I couldn't get down the line!



    Swing after:




    You've made it worse! This new swing is exactly why you shouldn't just strap on an idea. I simply pointed out your head didn't go down, you took that and a comment about right side bend and now your early extending even more. Take a lesson from Monte, he already pointed out your not using your hips correctly. Have him explain how to do that correctly and the rest of this will take care of itself!
  • golfstripegolfstripe Members Posts: 27
    My pro says if the club is going up when it should be going down the lower body is confused about how, and when to get out of the way of a moving club.
    Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see.
  • Boomer3Boomer3 Members Posts: 61
    Can anyone explain how not regaining flexion on the downswing relates to the issues of casting/flipping?
  • stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
    Boomer3 wrote:


    Can anyone explain how not regaining flexion on the downswing relates to the issues of casting/flipping?




    If you don't regain flexion, your rear hip will rotate out towards the ball (goat love), this leaves you with no space to swing so you have to quickly flip to get the club head to the ball
  • stugolfstugolf Members Posts: 199
    edited Dec 7, 2018 #21
    Been working on some stuff given by Monte and Bogeypro, mostly on flexing left knee, more tilt through the ball, but also some ulnar deviation on the way down to counteract the cuppiness.



    My swing below shows improvement from my first clip right? More tilt at impact, almost a straight line with my lead arm and club at impact.



    What do you think?

    SWING: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFjrzzmlJc
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • uitar9uitar9 Members Posts: 396 ✭✭
    Talk to a pro, as others say, they will find the worm under the rock.



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]What is your actual ball flight, 225 with driver, right down the middle...or 75 yards with driver with a horrible slice.[/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]I'm a 65 year old male, overweight, low flexible golfer who took it up 7 years ago. I am not gonna swing like Justin Thomas. I just want to keep my ball in front of me on the short grass. I'd like to hit it further so try to stretch more than I used to, a little yoga 3 or 4 times a week. [/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]I like the phrase I read somewhere of "playing golf not playing swing" [/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]Nothing like a 20 handicap for giving advice...but...couple of things I have been told which seem to help with consistency:[/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]-the butt drill-Take your normal golf stance, no club or ball, standing so that your butt is touching the wall. Cross your arms in front of your chest. Complete a slow motion full takeaway and full downstroke...start both with your hips, while maintaining contact with the wall and your butt (going from cheek to cheek) without any sliding left or right nor up and down. 5 minutes a day for two weeks...then[/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]-move away from a wall, add a club. Pick a spot on the floor where the ball should be-slow motion-full takeaway, full downswing, club passing through imaginary ball location then full follow through. 5 minutes a day for two weeks.[/background]



    [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]To me, Its all physics-we need to get the club face back to where it started, with repeatable efficiently. Adding non essential body motion, adds non essential arm movements to try and correct. I don't correct well. lol[/background]
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  • bogeyprobogeypro The Original Bogeypro ALClubWRX Posts: 3,257 ClubWRX
    stugolf wrote:


    Been working on some stuff given by Monte and Bogeyman, mostly on flexing left knee, more tilt through the ball, but also some ulnar deviation the way day.



    My swing below shows improvement from my first clip right? More tilt at impact, almost a straight line with my lead arm and club at impact.



    What do you think?

    SWING: [url="




    That is better. Still a little casting action from the top, (which is most likely the cause of the flipping), but the handle isn’t stalling as much. Work on sequencing in that transition so you don’t cast. That, combined with the better hip turn should get you into good impact. 👍

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  • b_f_c_99b_f_c_99 No Warm Up Needed. Members Posts: 257 ✭✭
    stugolf wrote:


    Been working on some stuff given by Monte and Bogeypro, mostly on flexing left knee, more tilt through the ball, but also some ulnar deviation on the way down to counteract the cuppiness.



    My swing below shows improvement from my first clip right? More tilt at impact, almost a straight line with my lead arm and club at impact.



    What do you think?

    SWING: [url="




    Better, and that’s the goal, to get better. Where you ultimately want to end up will take time.

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