Are some irons setups harder to hit than others ? Shaft head combos?

SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
edited Dec 6, 2018 in WRX Club Techs #1
I’m talking about some bad head shaft combinations that just don’t sync with your swing .



Like I have some AP3s with regular PX 6.0 shafts and struggling with them , very inconsistent contact. Originally hitting AP2s S300 fine .



I was talking to one of the guys at Roger Dunns and he was saying that was a odd head shaft combo.

Comments

  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,173 ✭✭
    edited Dec 6, 2018 #2
    The shaft is half the golf club. Finding the right H+S combo is what fitting is all about.



    The PX 6.0 shaft has an Frequency Coefficient Matching rating of 6.5. and weighs 120 grams. // Dynamic Gold (?) S300 has an FCM of 5.8 and weighs about 127 grams. So, PX is slightly lighter but is about 3/4 a flex stiffer than the S300.



    PX is a harsher shaft than the S300.



    Did you get fitted for the PX + AP3?
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 95 gr. (As of 21 Nov 2018)
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10 / KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Slotline Inertial SL-583F / 34" w. SuperStroke 2.0 MidSlim grip
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    No not fitted .
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    Anybody else have weird experience with irons like this?
  • gdb99gdb99 Members Posts: 1,608 ✭✭
    AP3 and Project X is a great combination, if it fits the golfer.



    I’m 56 now, so heavier shafts don’t fit me anymore. I used to play Dynamic Gold S300’s. Now I have a set of Dynamic Gold 105’s coming to try.



    I don’t think there are inherent “bad combos”, just bad fits.
    Cobra King LTD, Black Tie Regular flex
    Titleist 917F 16.5, Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
    Cleveland DST 3 hybrid, Diamana Redboard regular
    Mizuno MP-4's
    Vokey SM7 54M
    Odyssey #2
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,927 ✭✭
    edited Dec 7, 2018 #6
    1. The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
    2. The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
    3. Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
    4. Or any combination of those three.


    But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it. So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    going to give it a go a few more times and see if it improves.
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:
    1. The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
    2. The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
    3. Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
    4. Or any combination of those three.


    But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it. So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.




    My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.
  • HiSpeed48HiSpeed48 Members Posts: 2,101 ✭✭
    Swingweight and total weight are factors to consider as well.
    Titleist 910D2 9.5* Tour Issue
    TEE XCG7 15*
    Srixon Z545 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 46* 50* 54* 58*
    John Byron DaleHead 2
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,927 ✭✭


    My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.




    A lot of times the first instincts are pretty good. Now there isn't really any 'proper' amount of loading BUT when the actual amount doesn't match with ones expectations of how much there should be, that certainly can cause problems and can be very important during the fitting process.
  • bjmdobjmdo SCMembers Posts: 255 ✭✭
    I am well past the days of trying to self fit for this exact reason. With the technology we have now, it is so important to be fit properly. Each head launches different, has different spin, etc. What worked well in one club does not always work in another. Hope it works out for you.
    Callaway Great Big Bertha 10.5 with Graphite Design AD-TP 6X
    Callaway Epic Flash 5 wood (-1) with Fujikura Pro 2.0 7 X-stiff
    Callaway Epic 3 and 4 hybrid with Mitsubishi C6 80S
    Mizuno MP 18 MMC 5-PW with KBS C-taper Lite X-flex, hard-stepped 1x
    Edel 51, 56, 60 wedges
    Scotty Cameron NP2
    Ball: Callaway Chrome Soft
  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Members Posts: 2,319 ✭✭
    Over the years i have read about lots of sets of Forged Irons that are loved by many on WRX Hogan Cobra Mizuno Bridgestone Tm200 2009 X Forged etc

    The J33cb Hogan Apex Plus and MP37 are my clear winners so i note this is a very subjective topic.All of the irons felt better after the standard basic rebuild after purchase...cheers Roger
    2019 April

    Ping G5 @ 10.5
    Callaway bb mini 12
    Callaway xr16 @ 15
    Tm V Steel @ 18
     
    Mizuno MP 63 DGR300 at D4

    Vokey SM5 50 08 F Old SM at 54 and SM6 58S 10

    Titleist Scotty Mid Slant Pro Platinum at 34 and a Half!

  • evansmar004evansmar004 Members Posts: 76
    I agree with some that it is just the fit. One of the most important thing is testing shafts and getting fit.

    Also, I am a pretty consistent iron player but there are definitely stretches of inconsistency especially in strike. Give it some time before you decide.
  • Chuck905Chuck905 Members Posts: 1,106 ✭✭
    I agree from experience.



    I went thru a complete fitting and it’s remarkable all the variables such as launch angle, spin, strike , lie, loft, shaft weight, profile, flex, length, swing weight and feel that can by custom dialed in.


    bjmdo wrote:


    I am well past the days of trying to self fit for this exact reason. With the technology we have now, it is so important to be fit properly. Each head launches different, has different spin, etc. What worked well in one club does not always work in another. Hope it works out for you.
    Epic SZ 10*, Tensei White 75
    Epic SZ Strong 3 Wood, 13.5*
    U45 17*, Recoil 110
    3-PW Mizuno MP18 Blades
    Mizuno T7s 54-8 SW and 58-12 LW
    Odyssey RX9
  • LaymanMLaymanM Cincinnati, OHMembers Posts: 2,115 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:

    1. The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
    2. The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
    3. Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
    4. Or any combination of those three.


    But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it. So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.




    I only disagree that some heads just don’t work as good as others with some shafts. Example I hate PX LZ 6.0 in most clubs. I loved them in apex mb. It’s about finding head you like looks of and then fitting correct shaft.
    PING G410 9* PX Evenflow Black 75 6.0
    PING G410 LST 3w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 5w PX Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    PING G410 4-PW AWT 2 0 stiff
    PING Stealth Glide 2.0 50ss/54ss/58ss
    PING Sigam G Tyne
  • GSDriverGSDriver Members Posts: 580 ✭✭
    When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel. I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them. Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.
    Epic Speeder 661
    Rogue 4 Wood Evenflow 75 Blue
    Epic Hybrids 3/4/5
    Apex Pro 6-P Recoil 110 F4
    MD Slate Forged 52
    PM Grind 56/60
    Odyssey 7S
    All grips except putter are Iomic Sticky 2.3
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    GSDriver wrote:


    When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel. I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them. Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.




    KBS Tour is a nice shaft.
  • Tcann32Tcann32 Members Posts: 3,527
    A heavy head + heavy Shaft, or the other way around, or a mix of the two could all contribute to a poor combination in relation to swing weight, as well as static weight.



    Weight metrics aside, the shaft being a poor fit would probably be more of a contributing factor than head in this particular scenario if you’re hitting them really poorly. The head itself might not be a perfect fit, but overall it’s an easy head to hit, so I’d look to potential Shaft changes, if you’re confident in the head
    What's actually in the bag...
    Callaway Epic SZ-9.0-Aldila X-Torsion Green Mamba-70TX
    Callaway Epic SZ 15* - PX Handcrafted Yellow 75 6.5
    Callaway Apex UT 21* - C- taper S+
    Miura LH LTD Black Blades: 3-p w/ DG TI X7's.
    Cleveland RTX 3: 50-54 w. C-Taper S+
    Scratch 1018: 58 w/ C-Taper S+
    Piretti Potenza / Odyssey MX #7

    Others gamed on occasion:
    Callaway BBA (2014)
    Callaway 13 X Forged w/ AMT X100's (hard stepped once)
    Scratch Golf 51,55,58,59
    Wilson Staff Kirk Currie Milled
  • Tcann32Tcann32 Members Posts: 3,527
    GSDriver wrote:
    When I experimented with PX, when they were the new 'hot' shaft, I found them harsh and lacking feel. I dropped down a flex to 5.5, still didn't get along with them. Now my KBS Tours and Tour Vs, I like.




    PX are super harsh. I like the results, a lot actually, but even compared to X7’s, the seemingly rare occurrence I hit a shot that warrants a rewarding feel, I didn’t get it from PX’s.
    What's actually in the bag...
    Callaway Epic SZ-9.0-Aldila X-Torsion Green Mamba-70TX
    Callaway Epic SZ 15* - PX Handcrafted Yellow 75 6.5
    Callaway Apex UT 21* - C- taper S+
    Miura LH LTD Black Blades: 3-p w/ DG TI X7's.
    Cleveland RTX 3: 50-54 w. C-Taper S+
    Scratch 1018: 58 w/ C-Taper S+
    Piretti Potenza / Odyssey MX #7

    Others gamed on occasion:
    Callaway BBA (2014)
    Callaway 13 X Forged w/ AMT X100's (hard stepped once)
    Scratch Golf 51,55,58,59
    Wilson Staff Kirk Currie Milled
  • ThreeBoxersThreeBoxers Members Posts: 90 ✭✭
    This topic is exactly what made me believe in getting fitted. About a year ago I tested my stock Mizuno MX-23's against other stock offerings seeing if there was a better head/shaft combo out there that I could easily find on ebay.



    Apex CF16 with stock XP95 stiff was a dispersion nightmare. Sprayed balls all over the place with no real distance gain over my irons.



    Apex CF16 with Project X LZ 105 6.0 was unreal. 7 iron carried a good 10 yards farther than my stock 7 iron, higher trajectory (good for me), and you could cover my dispersion with a blanket.



    Decided right there I should stop surfing eBay until I'm committed to getting fitted. Some combos jive with your swing, others don't.
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,361 ✭✭
    Tons of em depending on who's swinging....for someone the one that you "hate" is his dream set so it's all relative
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,361 ✭✭
    edited Dec 7, 2018 #22

    Stuart G. wrote:
    1. The head could be a bad fit for you (offset, looks, forgiveness, ...).
    2. The shaft could be a bad fit for you (weight or stiffness).
    3. Something else about the build could be a bad fit for you. e.g. swing weight, lie angle, grip size, ...
    4. Or any combination of those three.


    But other than that the head doesn't care what shaft is in it, and the shaft doesn't care what head is on it. So there really is no such thing as a bad match or combo between the shaft and head independent of how each individually fit the player.




    My first thought was this, I couldn't load the 6.0 properly.
    prolly the case I would guess.....dynamic gold is heavy but not hard to load (only cuz of weight) otherwise it's pretty smooth......PX is a beast.....its almost a full flex stiffer and prolly more robust in every part of profile.....



    I have always dropped down in PX and never had issue....they are actually a very good feeling shaft if play right flex....



    I am DGS300 player (tho heavy) and I play PX 5.0 with no issues.......and 115g suits me



    I play same shafts regardless of head, shaft fits golfers personal taste or feel......YMMV
  • SoCalTitleistSoCalTitleist Members Posts: 3,255 ✭✭
    Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still **** but that's on me. I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst. AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.
  • gdb99gdb99 Members Posts: 1,608 ✭✭


    Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still **** but that's on me. I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst. AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.




    Again, not the greatest combo, for you.

    Project X are a funny shaft, in that they play a lot stiffer than some people want to realize.

    5.0 is regular, 5.5 is stiff, 6.0 is x stif, etc.

    But you see companies advertise that Project X 6.0 is stiff and 5.5 is regular flex. Not at all!
    Cobra King LTD, Black Tie Regular flex
    Titleist 917F 16.5, Aldila Rogue Black 70 stiff
    Cleveland DST 3 hybrid, Diamana Redboard regular
    Mizuno MP-4's
    Vokey SM7 54M
    Odyssey #2
  • dunndunn Members Posts: 6,361 ✭✭
    edited Dec 9, 2018 #25
    And maybe even a hair stiffer than that



    I play stiff in most shafts yet a 5.0 is perfect....7 iron is 160-165 for me in normal loft



    My PX 5.0 is equal to my modus 120 stiff....



    PX is great feeling shaft imo if you play right flex
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,321 ✭✭
    gdb99 wrote:



    Had a range session yesterday. Hit the AP3 much better this time, swing was still **** but that's on me. I would say the biggest difference is the feel of the two different heads and two different shafst. AP3s with a cast hollow head and harsh PX shaft I would say is not the greatest combo.




    Again, not the greatest combo, for you.

    Project X are a funny shaft, in that they play a lot stiffer than some people want to realize.

    5.0 is regular, 5.5 is stiff, 6.0 is x stif, etc.

    But you see companies advertise that Project X 6.0 is stiff and 5.5 is regular flex. Not at all!




    I've seen charts in the past that had PX as about a half a stiffness stiffer than the associated shaft of other companies.



    i.e. 5.5 was a half step stiffer than other company's regular. 6.0 half step stiffer than others stiff and 6.5 half step stiffer than others "X".



    Having said that I'm in the corner of stiffness not counting for all that much and weight being more important.



    Also, think out of the box sometimes. You may be surprised. My puny driver speed is ~93. I hit DGS300 in my irons. Lost about 2 yards in distance per club (from most other lightweight shafts) but dispersion was noticeably better.

    ANY SITE GUIDANCE I OFFER, UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE, IS REFERRING TO THE "DESKTOP/FULL" VERSION

    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, 20*, 23*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Titleist 716 AP-1, 5-PW, DGS300
    Cleveland RTX-3 50*, 56*, 64 DGS300

    Taylormade Spidex-X Blue/single white line (Today - always subject to change)
    Titleist AVX
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