Mirror Vision app: better feedback

wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
I met the creator of Mirror Vision last month at the day-Long event that Monte and other stud teachers held to raise money after Thousand Oaks shootings/fires. I was really impressed with the app and it’s finally on the Apple store.



What it does is sync your iPhone real time with another Apple device (iPad, iPhone) so you can see your swing as it happens. You can position the camera and the the monitor so that you’re looking at the swing on the monitor sitting down on the ground just outside the ball so your head and eyes are pointed almost exactly as in the swing. So right there, real time, in a pretty realistic posture, you see what the camera sees (dtl/face on).



In all the discussions about learning on this forum, the single most overlooked aspect was feedback - connect feel to club motion to ball flight. This is a great technology/tool for getting real time feedback.



It just finally was made available by Apple today and I immediately downloaded it. Even though it’s late and I’m tired I took my phone and iPad outside for a test run. All I can say is this looks to me to be a fabulous tool. For all you guys looking outside at the ice and cold...



It goes without saying, I have no commercial interest in mirror vision or Toby who designed it and paid full price for it. I’m sure as a new product it’ll have some glitches but as a core learning too, I’m just passing along my enthusiasm.



Happy holidays everyone.
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Comments

  • mws92mws92 Members Posts: 1,001 ✭✭
    Do you have to pay for the Pro version to get the mirroring? And what is the subscription for? I was able to download and record a swing for free but haven’t tried to link it to my iPad yet.
  • ghoonkghoonk The Hoarder Members Posts: 213 ✭✭
    mws92 wrote:


    Do you have to pay for the Pro version to get the mirroring? And what is the subscription for? I was able to download and record a swing for free but haven't tried to link it to my iPad yet.




    I think the point of it is to link it to the iPad.



    From what i can tell from the web site, the iPad is placed 2-3" outside of the ball, the iPhone is placed down the line, so this way, you get to see your swing plane down the line while you're over the ball instead of having to go back and forth between swings to check your plane. I have a 12.9" iPad so this might be something to look into



    If you're going to be using it with the phone only and down the line, you'd be well served by the V1 app.
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  • dg_1983dg_1983 Members Posts: 1,283 ✭✭
    Tried it out this morning - very impressed for the cost. Leverage users existing hardware and provide a slick app.



    Takes a little getting used to seeing and interpreting the live feedback
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  •  Dave D Dave D Members Posts: 4,002 ✭✭
    guessing no availability on android?
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  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ✭✭
    This sounds like what I do today with my iPhone and iPad... Since no app existed I simply FaceTimed myself and then was able to achieve the poor man's Live View Golf using two devices



    The downsides are there is no ability to draw lines, record, etc. Are these issues that this new app solves? If so, I'll be all over it!
  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,867 ✭✭
    Can anyone confirm the cost? Is it a one-off or subscription based payment? Don't have my iPad with me so can't set it up, and don't see any options in-app. Thanks!
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  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ✭✭
    OK, downloaded the app on phone, but will be able to test with iPad tonight.



    App allows use of the slo mo camera functionality in the iPhone and allows you to draw all of the usual plane lines, etc. Also allows recording.



    If this even half works it'll be a winner...
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    mws92 wrote:
    Do you have to pay for the Pro version to get the mirroring? And what is the subscription for? I was able to download and record a swing for free but haven’t tried to link it to my iPad yet.




    I think so. And that’s its real value. I bought a years subscription —- I’m a big fan of entrepreneurs with a good idea.
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    PorscheFan wrote:
    This sounds like what I do today with my iPhone and iPad... Since no app existed I simply FaceTimed myself and then was able to achieve the poor man's Live View Golf using two devices



    The downsides are there is no ability to draw lines, record, etc. Are these issues that this new app solves? If so, I'll be all over it!




    Yes line drawing and different speeds - I had tried to to this too with some airplay or something a while ago but there was too much lag time. To get the video on the monitor you have to download it which takes a while for drawing lines post-swing but if you draw the lines pre-swing on the monitor it works as you swing. You have the app installed on both devices and ....
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    gentles wrote:
    Can anyone confirm the cost? Is it a one-off or subscription based payment? Don't have my iPad with me so can't set it up, and don't see any options in-app. Thanks!




    I think it was $20 ish for a year and maybe $2 per month. Has some free trial time - 2 weeks? I just got the year because I met the guy and really liked, respected him
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    There’s some instagram stuff re this Mirror Vision - my name there is chuckky21c
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  • KuchhhhhhKuchhhhhh Members Posts: 2,222 ✭✭
    Does it have to sync with an ipad or can it be another device? I downloaded but was hesitating to upgrade to pro because I don't think I have a device to pair it to
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  • dbdorsdbdors Houston, Clear Lake areaClubWRX Posts: 1,754 ClubWRX
    The annual is $25.99 per year. I cant remember the monthly, but I think its around $3.50 or so a month. Since I have selected the trial period, I cant seem to find the monthly rate.

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  • dbdorsdbdors Houston, Clear Lake areaClubWRX Posts: 1,754 ClubWRX
    Kuchhhhhh wrote:


    Does it have to sync with an ipad or can it be another device? I downloaded but was hesitating to upgrade to pro because I don't think I have a device to pair it to


    As mentioned above, if you don't have a device to pair with, better off with V1 or Hudl.

    Woods: Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 8*, Fujikura Ventus 6, stiff: TM M5, 13*, Diamana Thump 75, stiff
    Hybrids: TEE CBX 3H (20d), 4H (22d), Kuro Kage Silver Hybrid 80, stiff
    Irons: TM M6, 5-GW, Accra 80i, stiff
    Wedges: Cleveland CBX 54* (bent to 55*), 60*, Accra 80i, stiff
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  • dbdorsdbdors Houston, Clear Lake areaClubWRX Posts: 1,754 ClubWRX
    PorscheFan wrote:


    This sounds like what I do today with my iPhone and iPad... Since no app existed I simply FaceTimed myself and then was able to achieve the poor man's Live View Golf using two devices



    The downsides are there is no ability to draw lines, record, etc. Are these issues that this new app solves? If so, I'll be all over it!


    There are lines and you can record the video. But the lines are not recorded. You can draw the lines on the recording as well. Seems like a nice app. A bit slow and buggy at times. But I guess that is to be expected.

    Woods: Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 8*, Fujikura Ventus 6, stiff: TM M5, 13*, Diamana Thump 75, stiff
    Hybrids: TEE CBX 3H (20d), 4H (22d), Kuro Kage Silver Hybrid 80, stiff
    Irons: TM M6, 5-GW, Accra 80i, stiff
    Wedges: Cleveland CBX 54* (bent to 55*), 60*, Accra 80i, stiff
    Putter: Evnroll ER1.2 355g, 33", SS Counter Core Mid Slim 2.0
    Ball: Wilson Duo Professional in green & yellow
    Bag/Cart: '18 Ping Hoofer/Clicgear 3.5+
    Accessories: Garmin G8/Nikon Coolshot Pro Stabilized
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    I think Android is in the works, but OS for now. You have to pay to use two, which is (to me) it's real value.
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  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ✭✭
    dbdors wrote:

    Kuchhhhhh wrote:


    Does it have to sync with an ipad or can it be another device? I downloaded but was hesitating to upgrade to pro because I don't think I have a device to pair it to


    As mentioned above, if you don't have a device to pair with, better off with V1 or Hudl.




    Yep, to me this is more like a 'software only' competitor to Live View Golf. I've been wondering why no one has done this to-date. If it works as intended, it's compelling.



    I think all of these Wi-Fi connected solutions can be expected to have a little latency. If you have the devices already, then I think the value is there.



    I know I alter my spine angle in the backswing (lack of side tilt), and I can see it in video afterwards, but for the life of me I can't feel it. I'm hoping a solution like this can help me to identify the difference in the two feels in real-time. We'll see!
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Sponsors Posts: 18,230 ✭✭
    edited Dec 20, 2018 #20
    This is going to eliminate the eyes following the club head flaw that people either say they can’t fix, or isn’t a problem.



    Toby sent me one a few days ago when it was approved Going to start using it tomorrow.
  • QwiklapQwiklap An aspiring hacker ... Members Posts: 588 ✭✭
    So to be clear - this app would replace Hudl or V1 - and a swing mirror.



    Can I upload videos to YouTube"?
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    I won't be able to answer any tech questions... best to find his instagram or whatever. (LIke... no clue about youtube upload).



    But I do think I figured one thing out. Last night in garage (where home wifi works), things went swimmingly. Took wife's ipad (she's a sweetie!) to range, but couldn't figure out how to sync. Got home, re-read the info on apple store, and reconnected. I *think* you have to connect the two devices using wifi and then do not close the app before you use it elsewhere outside of wifi range. I am now at coffee, and before I connected to coffee shop wifi, the iphone and ipad synced up just fine. You don't use bluetooth, just leave wifi on.
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    One other detail. You sync up the monitor with the camera (have the monitor find the camera vs the other way around, where the camera finds the monitor) That way the camera's view is seen on the monitor rather than vice-versa. That was counter-intuitive to me, but not important once you figure out the right way.
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    Callawy Epic 5W
    Callaway Epic Hybrid 2h
    Mizuno MP4 4-W
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    edited Dec 20, 2018 #24
    Qwiklap wrote:


    So to be clear - this app would replace Hudl or V1 - and a swing mirror.






    Yes. It's got V1 basic functionality (draw lines, circles, etc) plus a digital mirror that you can see as you swing without looking backwards at a physical mirror. I haven't yet drawn the lines for a swing, so I don't know exactly how to do it. I suspect you have to download the video from camera to monitor, then draw lines on monitor (unless you want to use the camera for drawing lines, then no download I suppose). The download takes some time, but that's life....
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  • GautamaGautama Members Posts: 754 ✭✭
    How's the latency? I've tried other video pairing apps on the ipad/iPhone platform but couldn't get past the lag between what I was going and what I was seeing. Does this work in real time?
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

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  • KuchhhhhhKuchhhhhh Members Posts: 2,222 ✭✭


    This is going to eliminate the eyes following the club head flaw that people either say they can't fix, or isn't a problem.



    Toby sent me one a few days ago when it was approved Going to start using it tomorrow.




    Do you know if it will sync with a mac? If not I might just have to buy an ipad. I love mirror work but hate some of the bad habits that can follow like you mentioned
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  • larrybudlarrybud Members Posts: 11,230 ✭✭
    Why don't people just use the many "mirror" apps on phones?
  • KuchhhhhhKuchhhhhh Members Posts: 2,222 ✭✭
    larrybud wrote:
    Why don't people just use the many "mirror" apps on phones?




    What do you mean?
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    Gautama wrote:
    How's the latency? I've tried other video pairing apps on the ipad/iPhone platform but couldn't get past the lag between what I was going and what I was seeing. Does this work in real time?




    Ok, I got the phone/iPad to pair on the range. I’m not sure why they didn’t pair earlier because they paired right up in several different places and even after I closed both apps.



    As to latency, it’s not exactly the moment but it’s pretty **** close to it - I’d guess .1 sec behind. But whatever it is, it’s very close. It wasn’t distracting and was fast enough that I didn’t mind the slight lag. There was some lag but just not enough to bother me.



    I also started fooling around with drawing lines - what would be great is lines before the swing. This is doable but logistically hard - you can move the monitor around after the camera is set and draw lines prior to recording (you can control camera from the monitor) but you move out of your posture to do it so you have to guess where to draw the lines - but no tech can solve that.



    My phone and iPad would disconnect after a long recording time (maybe memory problem in phone) but that’s because I wasn’t very efficient in using it. That was the only ‘glitch’ I experienced.



    But this seems like breakthrough tech to me in terms of learning. Seeing a swing in real time against lines was eye-opening!
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    Callawy Epic 5W
    Callaway Epic Hybrid 2h
    Mizuno MP4 4-W
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ✭✭
    edited Dec 20, 2018 #30
    Used this tonight, and for me it’s a game changer. I was able to take backswings until I could see that I was getting the correct amount of side bend, and critically I could then feel what it was like to be in that correct position. For me it felt ‘wrong’ - like I was getting closer to the ground.



    Not an instant fix, but in an hour I was able to cut out about half of the spine angle variation on a full swing, and an equivalent degree of my goat pleasuring problem. The key for me is being able to see real-time when I make a correct move and then being able ‘bag’ that feeling.



    Given the technology involved the latency is minimal to me. It’s way less than a GoPro synced with an iPad.
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Members Posts: 5,699 ✭✭
    PorscheFan wrote:
    Used this tonight, and for me it’s a game changer. I was able to take backswings until I could see that I was getting the correct amount of side bend, and critically I could then feel what it was like to be in that correct position. For me it felt ‘wrong’ - like I was getting closer to the ground.



    Not an instant fix, but in an hour I was able to cut out about half of the spine angle variation on a full swing, and an equivalent degree of my goat pleasuring problem. The key for me is being able to see real-time when I make a correct move and then being able ‘bag’ that feeling.



    Given the technology involved the latency is minimal to me. It’s way less than a GoPro synced with an iPad.




    Yep.
    Ping GMax 400 10.5
    Callawy Epic 5W
    Callaway Epic Hybrid 2h
    Mizuno MP4 4-W
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


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