Finding Bruce Rearick's blog has been like stepping into a goldmine

getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
edited Dec 27, 2018 in Instruction & Academy #1
So much more makes sense now



The putter honeymoons

The reasons putters miss

Why I found that 370g heads are too heavy



I have spent so much money this year on putters when I should have spent that money on a consult session with Bruce.



Time to pull the SAM puttlab data out to see which profile I fit...then onto the right putter for me.



Luckily I should just be able to choose from my stable. As soon as my 2ball fang custom comes in I'll have



A face balanced mallet

A near face balanced mallet

A plumber's neck blade



2019 will be the year of putting for me! No more switching from lhl to conventional. No more working between whether left hand or right hand dominates the stroke. I won't figure it out overnight, but I will reduce variables to just a few.
«134

Comments

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,030 ✭✭
    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #3


    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,070 ClubWRX
    getitdaily wrote:



    It's all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it's all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you'll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you'll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It's not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you're aligned. Past that it does not matter if it's face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    LOL, sounds like putting and this Rearick are both in your head.



    Second the second post.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    getitdaily wrote:



    It's all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it's all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you'll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you'll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It's not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you're aligned. Past that it does not matter if it's face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    LOL, sounds like putting and this Rearick are both in your head.



    Second the second post.




    Nope. The rearick stuff is helping to clear my head.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,070 ClubWRX
    If it works do it.
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,810 ✭✭
    Bruce used to offer a 1 year support via email/video/pics that I did. He starts by looking at your address and helping you fit your putter. Among his core ideas are: find a stroke and stay with it. He’s very much a “putting whisperer.”



    I don’t know if he still offers this deal, but you might look into it. He has a membership here (bargolf, I think)



    Man knows putting.
    Ping GMax 400 10.5
    Callawy Epic 5W
    Callaway X-hot 3,4 h
    Mizuno FliHi 5 iron
    Mizuno MP4 6-W
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,030 ✭✭
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #8
    getitdaily wrote:



    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    I’m not posting to argue. I of all people know that everyone is different. But I’m fresh off a 3 year run of the worst putting compared to ball striking on earth. And the reason was the over analyzAtion of all variables just as you describe. All of that is what’s in your head. Instead of walking up and lining up and stroking it into the hole.



    Until you get to a place where you feel like the putter itself doesn’t matter , you’ll never putt well.

    In other words you’ve got to boil it down to a point that it’s only you to blame. You or a green anomaly that throws it offline. As long as you have a piece of equipment to blame it won’t improve. You do all the analysis you want. But if it doesn’t operate perfectly after all that your head is going to explode. You have to tell yourself “ it’s not the putter it’s me “. That works good and bad. A very good teacher convinced me of that with wedges. I am a very good escape artist . Harder the shot the more likely I’ll hole it. I hoped from wedge to wedge looking for perfect. He finally all but slapped me and said “ it isn’t the wedge making you look good. It’s you making the wedge look good ... pick something and groove it “. A putter is no different. No need to over analyze it.





    Look I get the thinking. I’m extremely ocd and analyze everything to the nth degree. And it never helps. It’s alwasy back to what feels good and what works. Which is usually opposite of conventional ideas. In a way we may actually be saying the same thing. I’m just trying to give you shortcut to get there. But as I alway say. Best lessons are usually learned the hard way. I know that because I’m alwasy traveling the hard path myself.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭


    Bruce used to offer a 1 year support via email/video/pics that I did. He starts by looking at your address and helping you fit your putter. Among his core ideas are: find a stroke and stay with it. He’s very much a “putting whisperer.”



    I don’t know if he still offers this deal, but you might look into it. He has a membership here (bargolf, I think)



    Man knows putting.




    His blog posts prove your last sentence.



    I plan to reach out to him after I do some testing. I have a high moi fb mallet and a plumber's neck wide blade. Now that i have a much better idea of which stroke and stroke fundamentals to employ with each, I want to see if one of them now performs better than the other.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    Did you find it after the discussion about MOI a couple of days ago?



    I'm really glad when Bruce gets the attention he deserves.



    He actually posts on here a little bit, so maybe he'll poke his head in and say "hi."



    One of the best things I ever did for my putting is make a homemade version of this training aid...



    http://sightrightgolf.com/new-sightright-putting-aid/



    Again, I'm not shill for them and would have happily paid what they want for this thing, but I didn't want to wait for it to ship.



    Basically, if you can figure out where exactly, from over the ball, you look up and see the line on this device (or a homemade version, it can be as simple as two books stacked on each other) then you can figure out the length and lie angle that encourages you to return to that position.



    Using that thing and a putting mirror to check my setup was the biggest difference I've ever made in my putting.



    If I did it all over again, I would have simply gone to see Bruce and saved myself a year of tinkering.



    The whole process has inspired me. It's amazing how much better a person can putt with a few small changes.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭

    getitdaily wrote:



    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    I’m not posting to argue. I of all people know that everyone is different. But I’m fresh off a 3 year run of the worst putting compared to ball striking on earth. And the reason was the over analyzAtion of all variables just as you describe. All of that is what’s in your head. Instead of walking up and lining up and stroking it into the hole.



    Until you get to a place where you feel like the putter itself doesn’t matter , you’ll never putt well.




    Agree completely. For me, that means understanding what works and what doesnt. Trial and lots of error over the last year hasn't helped.



    I have a technical analysis paralysis going on. I get to the course and find what stroke I'm going to use based on what feels good that morning. I may go conventional...may go lhl. I may switch it up. I've had about 6 putters this year. Way too much crap in my head that prevents me from doing what you said "see it, line it up, stroke it". I feel I'm on my way to clearing that up just from a couple hours of reading bruce's stuff, some of the blog posts 3 or 4 times.



    There's simplification coming, and that gives me hope that more putts will go in. Just yesterday I hit 12 greens with 2 near misses (less than 2 feet off the green, on the fringe). Three 3 putts. Shot 74. I made 1 putt outside 10 feet. I missed 2 putts inside 10 feet. 34 total putts. That's been the story of my year. Lots of greens and lots of putts.



    My putting "feels" are all over the place though. Going to put a stop to that.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    Some reason I couldn't add this photo to the above post....



    here's my setup at home:



  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #13
    Matt J wrote:


    Did you find it after the discussion about MOI a couple of days ago?



    I'm really glad when Bruce gets the attention he deserves.



    He actually posts on here a little bit, so maybe he'll poke his head in and say "hi."



    One of the best things I ever did for my putting is make a homemade version of this training aid...



    http://sightrightgolf.com/new-sightright-putting-aid/



    Again, I'm not shill for them and would have happily paid what they want for this thing, but I didn't want to wait for it to ship.



    Basically, if you can figure out where exactly, from over the ball, you look up and see the line on this device (or a homemade version, it can be as simple as two books stacked on each other) then you can figure out the length and lie angle that encourages you to return to that position.



    Using that thing and a putting mirror to check my setup was the biggest difference I've ever made in my putting.



    If I did it all over again, I would have simply gone to see Bruce and saved myself a year of tinkering.



    The whole process has inspired me. It's amazing how much better a person can putt with a few small changes.




    Yes, your post in that moi thread sent me to bruce's blog! I've been reading at night once the wife and kids are in bed.



    I've been tinkering this morning and it looks like I'll simplify things to this:



    High moi fb mallet - ball forward, lhl, left hand dominated stroke, square stance, shoulder stroke



    Plum neck blade - ball position close to middle, closed stance, right hand dominated stroke, conventional grip, shoulder stroke with putter head coming inside



    Just tinkering, those 2 setups and strokes show consistency. I just need to determine which one works better and is easier to do over and over.



    Then when my custom plum neck 2ball fang is finished I'll do the same testing with the stroke profile that matches the "near face balanced" mallet.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #14
    To each their own, but I've posted this on here several times.



    If you can find a putter and an address position that you can deliver a stroke that starts the ball end over end on a line you pick and replicate it repeatedly, your putting confidence goes through the roof.



    I still push or pull the occasional putt on the golf course, but it doesn't bother me. I still have days with 34 putts, but it doesn't bother me. 3 putts do bother me, but typically I say to myself "hit it closer" because they're from outside of 30 feet.



    Once you get a stroke you're really confident in from about 7 or 8 feet, you just read the putt, line it up, and only focus on speed while you're over the ball. If the line was wrong, or you mishit it, or you just make a bad stroke, you typically know which one went wrong (hopefully not multiples, but that happens, too).



    The absolute worst thing I think you can do is rotate through grips, heads, head weights, stance, etc. -



    Edited to add: Another thing I do, and it was kind of neat reading Bruce's writing saying that Mr. Palmer did this too....



    I have a heavier 8802 style putter (Flanigan Bilt) - I have various Newport / Newport 2 / Ansers, Circa 62 #2 with a flow neck, an old real 8802 (lefty portsider), an old Ray Cook mallet (6 o'clock toe hang), an old TM Spyder - now most of these putters are only worth a few bucks, but they're all very different. The lie angles are all adjusted to my specs at 2 up and the lengths are all at my specs at 34 inches so I still see the line the same. But they will require slightly different strokes and maybe slight setup changes to keep the ball on line.



    I don't know if I naturally would have taken the putter head back to the inside a little and then chased it down the line (Anser PN profile according to Bruce) or if I adapted that to that putter head. But, going back and playing around (always practice never in play) with these other putters helps me correct small flaws in my stroke.



    One thing I haven't mentioned but is big for Bruce and I 100% agree and so do a lot of other putter guys like Edel... the sight lines, dots, etc. DO matter. I putt better with nothing by just looking at the top line where it intersects the face. If I add a cavity / flange line then the head looks closed to me and I tend to try and push it back on line subconsciously which is just a push miss. A sight dot isn't so bad, but I still tend to aim it right (as a lefty).



    A real fitting, like with Bruce, you will go through the different conventions and see what happens. Trial and error may be the only way to accomplish that part of the fitting.



    If you haven't found it yet, the podcast Bruce did with Trevor Immelman's brother Mark is a great resource. He basically says he doesn't want to put himself out of business but we are all capable of fitting ourselves.



    https://radiopublic.com/on-the-mark-golf-podcast-8g5YqZ/ep/s1!c6c8a
  • PirateLion85PirateLion85 Members Posts: 21
    Go watch a kid putt... they step into a putt with absolutely no fear and stroke with confidence, regardless of where it goes. You'd be surprised at how much watching a kid mess around for two to three minutes will help your own putting.
    Mizuno ST-180 Driver (9.5): MRC Kuro Kage Silver TiNi Dual Core 70X
    Mizuno ST-180 3W: MRC Kuro Kage Silver TiNi Dual Core 80X
    Mizuno MP-18 SC (3-7): KBS Tour X
    Mizuno MP-18 (8-9): KBS Tour X
    Mizuno MP-T7 (46,50,54,58): KBS Tour X
    Odyssey EXO Seven-S, 37", SuperStroke 2.0 XL
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    getitdaily wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    Did you find it after the discussion about MOI a couple of days ago?



    I'm really glad when Bruce gets the attention he deserves.



    He actually posts on here a little bit, so maybe he'll poke his head in and say "hi."



    One of the best things I ever did for my putting is make a homemade version of this training aid...



    http://sightrightgol...ht-putting-aid/



    Again, I'm not shill for them and would have happily paid what they want for this thing, but I didn't want to wait for it to ship.



    Basically, if you can figure out where exactly, from over the ball, you look up and see the line on this device (or a homemade version, it can be as simple as two books stacked on each other) then you can figure out the length and lie angle that encourages you to return to that position.



    Using that thing and a putting mirror to check my setup was the biggest difference I've ever made in my putting.



    If I did it all over again, I would have simply gone to see Bruce and saved myself a year of tinkering.



    The whole process has inspired me. It's amazing how much better a person can putt with a few small changes.




    Yes, your post in that moi thread sent me to bruce's blog! I've been reading at night once the wife and kids are in bed.



    I've been tinkering this morning and it looks like I'll simplify things to this:



    High moi fb mallet - ball forward, lhl, left hand dominated stroke, square stance, shoulder stroke



    Plum neck blade - ball position close to middle, closed stance, right hand dominated stroke, conventional grip, shoulder stroke with putter head coming inside



    Just tinkering, those 2 setups and strokes show consistency. I just need to determine which one works better and is easier to do over and over.



    Then when my custom plum neck 2ball fang is finished I'll do the same testing with the stroke profile that matches the "near face balanced" mallet.




    In your case, having two potential setups, I think you should physically try and make your stroke match the stroke profile that Bruce recommends for each of those putters. Practice it, then take it out on the course, and try and stick with it. See which one gives you the most success.



    The thing that scares me the most, is if your eyes are just in a bad place, you might never get real comfortable over the ball. Question for you getitdaily: If you stand behind a perfectly straight up hill 8 footer, and try and line an alignment line on a ball up with the target from behind the ball, then you get into your normal putting address position, look at the line, then look at the hole - does the line seem like it goes straight into the hole?



    Then if you just put a ball down on the green with the line up, and try and stand over it totally aligned to the line not worry about where it's going or how far, and just stroke the ball trying to make the line go end over end, how many times out of 10 would your stroke deliver a straight end over end roll?



    Those are both very important questions to me, going forward. Good luck! I'm so happy that Bruce's work is helping you.
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,647 ClubWRX
    As far as the putting stroke is concerned the bottom line is repeatability. Drawing a line on the ball and rolling the ball such that the line does not wobble is the putting stroke holy grail. Getting the right putter which complements your stroke has typically been a T&E process. Anything which provides a shortcut can't be bad. Once you have reduced putting to reads and imperfections, it certainly becomes almost purely mental. Learning to read greens, IMO, is very challenging and a lifelong pursuit. Accepting the rub of the green is also very difficult (for some of us anyway).



    The reading of greens really separates the great putters from the good putters. Lots of players have good strokes. Strokes can be learned and grooved. Practicing reading greens requires more discipline and is challenging to separate out green imperfection issues. Just finding greens with all the levels of slope severity is hard.
    Driver: Callaway GBB Epic 9° w/Project X HZRDUS T800 65 gm 6.0 flex
    3W: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Evenflow 5.5 Graphite R-flex
    Hybrids: Callaway Apex 3h, 4h w/MR Kuro Kage 80HY S-flex
    Irons: Maltby TS-1 5i-GW w/KBS Tour R-flex
    Sand Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM7 54/08 M Grind w/KBS Tour R-Flex
    Lob Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM6 58/04 L Grind w/TT Wedge Flex
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura X w/Super Stroke Claw 1.0
    Ball: Titleist AVX (wind) or ProV1X (tournaments) in yellow
  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,810 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:
    To each their own, but I've posted this on here several times.



    If you can find a putter and an address position that you can deliver a stroke that starts the ball end over end on a line you pick and replicate it repeatedly, your putting confidence goes through the roof.



    I still push or pull the occasional putt on the golf course, but it doesn't bother me. I still have days with 34 putts, but it doesn't bother me. 3 putts do bother me, but typically I say to myself "hit it closer" because they're from outside of 30 feet.



    Once you get a stroke you're really confident in from about 7 or 8 feet, you just read the putt, line it up, and only focus on speed while you're over the ball. If the line was wrong, or you mishit it, or you just make a bad stroke, you typically know which one went wrong (hopefully not multiples, but that happens, too).



    The absolute worst thing I think you can do is rotate through grips, heads, head weights, stance, etc. -



    Edited to add: Another thing I do, and it was kind of neat reading Bruce's writing saying that Mr. Palmer did this too....



    I have a heavier 8802 style putter (Flanigan Bilt) - I have various Newport / Newport 2 / Ansers, Circa 62 #2 with a flow neck, an old real 8802 (lefty portsider), an old Ray Cook mallet (6 o'clock toe hang), an old TM Spyder - now most of these putters are only worth a few bucks, but they're all very different. The lie angles are all adjusted to my specs at 2 up and the lengths are all at my specs at 34 inches so I still see the line the same. But they will require slightly different strokes and maybe slight setup changes to keep the ball on line.



    I don't know if I naturally would have taken the putter head back to the inside a little and then chased it down the line (Anser PN profile according to Bruce) or if I adapted that to that putter head. But, going back and playing around (always practice never in play) with these other putters helps me correct small flaws in my stroke.



    One thing I haven't mentioned but is big for Bruce and I 100% agree and so do a lot of other putter guys like Edel... the sight lines, dots, etc. DO matter. I putt better with nothing by just looking at the top line where it intersects the face. If I add a cavity / flange line then the head looks closed to me and I tend to try and push it back on line subconsciously which is just a push miss. A sight dot isn't so bad, but I still tend to aim it right (as a lefty).



    A real fitting, like with Bruce, you will go through the different conventions and see what happens. Trial and error may be the only way to accomplish that part of the fitting.



    If you haven't found it yet, the podcast Bruce did with Trevor Immelman's brother Mark is a great resource. He basically says he doesn't want to put himself out of business but we are all capable of fitting ourselves.



    https://radiopublic.com/on-the-mark-golf-podcast-8g5YqZ/ep/s1!c6c8a






    The thing I learned the most from Bruce was the idea of settling on a stroke and stop fiddling around. That actually took me a while - I ended up with a claw/pencil grip and shoulder rocking, using a line on the ball to line it up. This got me rolling it end over end on line, and my putting sky-rocked. I went from awful to not bad.



    I also ended up with a putter I fit myself after having one designed by Bruce and make by Byron Morgan. It worked for a long time but the magic vanished. Now my putter is rock solid and I can’t imagine changing anything. This is now a year plus of steady improvement. I frankly have to credit Bruce with helping me grasp the core idea behind this.
    Ping GMax 400 10.5
    Callawy Epic 5W
    Callaway X-hot 3,4 h
    Mizuno FliHi 5 iron
    Mizuno MP4 6-W
    Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
    Cameron Futura 5W


  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    I wish I could like those last two posts a hundred times each.



    When you're wandering around in the forest it seems like you'll never figure it out. But, you have to start somewhere and start chipping away and every little improvement to your process will give big benefits.



    Best of luck, getitdaily!
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:


    To each their own, but I've posted this on here several times.



    If you can find a putter and an address position that you can deliver a stroke that starts the ball end over end on a line you pick and replicate it repeatedly, your putting confidence goes through the roof.



    I still push or pull the occasional putt on the golf course, but it doesn't bother me. I still have days with 34 putts, but it doesn't bother me. 3 putts do bother me, but typically I say to myself "hit it closer" because they're from outside of 30 feet.



    Once you get a stroke you're really confident in from about 7 or 8 feet, you just read the putt, line it up, and only focus on speed while you're over the ball. If the line was wrong, or you mishit it, or you just make a bad stroke, you typically know which one went wrong (hopefully not multiples, but that happens, too).



    The absolute worst thing I think you can do is rotate through grips, heads, head weights, stance, etc. -



    Edited to add: Another thing I do, and it was kind of neat reading Bruce's writing saying that Mr. Palmer did this too....



    I have a heavier 8802 style putter (Flanigan Bilt) - I have various Newport / Newport 2 / Ansers, Circa 62 #2 with a flow neck, an old real 8802 (lefty portsider), an old Ray Cook mallet (6 o'clock toe hang), an old TM Spyder - now most of these putters are only worth a few bucks, but they're all very different. The lie angles are all adjusted to my specs at 2 up and the lengths are all at my specs at 34 inches so I still see the line the same. But they will require slightly different strokes and maybe slight setup changes to keep the ball on line.



    I don't know if I naturally would have taken the putter head back to the inside a little and then chased it down the line (Anser PN profile according to Bruce) or if I adapted that to that putter head. But, going back and playing around (always practice never in play) with these other putters helps me correct small flaws in my stroke.



    One thing I haven't mentioned but is big for Bruce and I 100% agree and so do a lot of other putter guys like Edel... the sight lines, dots, etc. DO matter. I putt better with nothing by just looking at the top line where it intersects the face. If I add a cavity / flange line then the head looks closed to me and I tend to try and push it back on line subconsciously which is just a push miss. A sight dot isn't so bad, but I still tend to aim it right (as a lefty).



    A real fitting, like with Bruce, you will go through the different conventions and see what happens. Trial and error may be the only way to accomplish that part of the fitting.



    If you haven't found it yet, the podcast Bruce did with Trevor Immelman's brother Mark is a great resource. He basically says he doesn't want to put himself out of business but we are all capable of fitting ourselves.



    https://radiopublic.com/on-the-mark-golf-podcast-8g5YqZ/ep/s1!c6c8a




    Good stuff man. I plan to keep a few putters once all is said and done so I can do what you've said, every now and then you just gotta look at something different. Kind of how tiger went to the mallet for a few tournaments this year then went back to the trusty anser2 and won.



    I won't tinker so much, but have something to switch to when my gamer goes on a dry run.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,030 ✭✭
    getitdaily wrote:


    getitdaily wrote:



    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    I’m not posting to argue. I of all people know that everyone is different. But I’m fresh off a 3 year run of the worst putting compared to ball striking on earth. And the reason was the over analyzAtion of all variables just as you describe. All of that is what’s in your head. Instead of walking up and lining up and stroking it into the hole.



    Until you get to a place where you feel like the putter itself doesn’t matter , you’ll never putt well.




    Agree completely. For me, that means understanding what works and what doesnt. Trial and lots of error over the last year hasn't helped.



    I have a technical analysis paralysis going on. I get to the course and find what stroke I'm going to use based on what feels good that morning. I may go conventional...may go lhl. I may switch it up. I've had about 6 putters this year. Way too much crap in my head that prevents me from doing what you said "see it, line it up, stroke it". I feel I'm on my way to clearing that up just from a couple hours of reading bruce's stuff, some of the blog posts 3 or 4 times.



    There's simplification coming, and that gives me hope that more putts will go in. Just yesterday I hit 12 greens with 2 near misses (less than 2 feet off the green, on the fringe). Three 3 putts. Shot 74. I made 1 putt outside 10 feet. I missed 2 putts inside 10 feet. 34 total putts. That's been the story of my year. Lots of greens and lots of putts.



    My putting "feels" are all over the place though. Going to put a stop to that.




    Yes sir. Thank you for weeding through my rambling to my point. I’m frequently misunderstood as it’s hard for me to get my thoughts onto the page.



    But what you are describing is exactly my past experience. Down to the conventional stroke and left hand low. I’ve been known to change grips from one putt to another over several holes. Lol. So I understand. It’s a blessing and a curse to be able to use many methods with decent results but you can never seem to find a clear leader.



    I found the trick was find which one works under the gun. You can simulate this in practice by playing several games like draw back etc. or my favorite. Wager against yourself and start a sort of “ swear jar”. Work out whatever dollar amount and rules will challenge you and then at the end of the season donate the pot to a local charity. Takes will power to go through with it. But can simulate competition pressure very well.



    Anyway. Just hate to see someone jump in the rabbit hole too deep to see out. Be careful. Lol.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:

    getitdaily wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    Did you find it after the discussion about MOI a couple of days ago?



    I'm really glad when Bruce gets the attention he deserves.



    He actually posts on here a little bit, so maybe he'll poke his head in and say "hi."



    One of the best things I ever did for my putting is make a homemade version of this training aid...



    [url="http://sightrightgolf.com/new-sightright-putting-aid/"]http://sightrightgol...ht-putting-aid/[/url]



    Again, I'm not shill for them and would have happily paid what they want for this thing, but I didn't want to wait for it to ship.



    Basically, if you can figure out where exactly, from over the ball, you look up and see the line on this device (or a homemade version, it can be as simple as two books stacked on each other) then you can figure out the length and lie angle that encourages you to return to that position.



    Using that thing and a putting mirror to check my setup was the biggest difference I've ever made in my putting.



    If I did it all over again, I would have simply gone to see Bruce and saved myself a year of tinkering.



    The whole process has inspired me. It's amazing how much better a person can putt with a few small changes.




    Yes, your post in that moi thread sent me to bruce's blog! I've been reading at night once the wife and kids are in bed.



    I've been tinkering this morning and it looks like I'll simplify things to this:



    High moi fb mallet - ball forward, lhl, left hand dominated stroke, square stance, shoulder stroke



    Plum neck blade - ball position close to middle, closed stance, right hand dominated stroke, conventional grip, shoulder stroke with putter head coming inside



    Just tinkering, those 2 setups and strokes show consistency. I just need to determine which one works better and is easier to do over and over.



    Then when my custom plum neck 2ball fang is finished I'll do the same testing with the stroke profile that matches the "near face balanced" mallet.




    In your case, having two potential setups, I think you should physically try and make your stroke match the stroke profile that Bruce recommends for each of those putters. Practice it, then take it out on the course, and try and stick with it. See which one gives you the most success.



    The thing that scares me the most, is if your eyes are just in a bad place, you might never get real comfortable over the ball. Question for you getitdaily: If you stand behind a perfectly straight up hill 8 footer, and try and line an alignment line on a ball up with the target from behind the ball, then you get into your normal putting address position, look at the line, then look at the hole - does the line seem like it goes straight into the hole?



    Then if you just put a ball down on the green with the line up, and try and stand over it totally aligned to the line not worry about where it's going or how far, and just stroke the ball trying to make the line go end over end, how many times out of 10 would your stroke deliver a straight end over end roll?



    Those are both very important questions to me, going forward. Good luck! I'm so happy that Bruce's work is helping you.




    SAM data I have shows that I line up a hair right with any putter. Usually within 1 degree. I tried the line thing this morning. For me, either directly over the ball or an inch inside the ball let's me "see" the line pointing at the hole.



    My SAM data also shows that, whatever stroke I employ, I can repeat it with stellar consistency. My path, rotation, impact, and tempo numbers were almost all over 90%, with just about any putter I used. I have data from a 2ball fang, spider, sigma g kushin, tyne, #7, scotty squareback, and a #7 counterbalance. With a few of those putters I have lhl and conventional grip stroke data.



    My profile is either best for a fb mallet or a mallet with toe hang.



    I just never settled on one method or putter. I feel like where I was with the golf swing a couple years ago where I would go to the rage and start working on whatever flight I had for that day. Started to simplify and understand my swing better and then work on the same few things every time out. I gradually learned the few things that get awry in my swing and have drills to correct them. No more tinkering around with the swing. I feel like that same discovery is coming with the putting stroke.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,030 ✭✭
    edited Dec 27, 2018 #23


    Go watch a kid putt... they step into a putt with absolutely no fear and stroke with confidence, regardless of where it goes. You'd be surprised at how much watching a kid mess around for two to three minutes will help your own putting.




    Yes. True as wrlll. I have a 10 year old that mimicks rickie Fowler. And he’s **** good. As fluid and natural of a stroke as I know. He just steps in and bang. And makes a ton.
    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot


  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭

    getitdaily wrote:


    getitdaily wrote:



    It’s all in your head. If your stroke is repeatable it’s all mental.



    What you have to do is decide to hit putts aggressively and then not care what happens. Be confident you’ll bang in the comeback. And sometimes you’ll miss that one too. Laugh at the 3 putt and go to the next hole . In short amount of time 3 putts will go nearly all away and birdies will drop.

    It’s not about Sam lab or fittings or anything else. Use the putter you align the best and that rolls to where you’re aligned. Past that it does not matter if it’s face balanced , flowneck , plumbers neck etc.




    If you read any of rearick's stuff then you'll understand why I disagree with a lot of your post.



    Agree that my putting is mostly in my head. But that's exacerbated by not having controllable variables under control.




    I’m not posting to argue. I of all people know that everyone is different. But I’m fresh off a 3 year run of the worst putting compared to ball striking on earth. And the reason was the over analyzAtion of all variables just as you describe. All of that is what’s in your head. Instead of walking up and lining up and stroking it into the hole.



    Until you get to a place where you feel like the putter itself doesn’t matter , you’ll never putt well.




    Agree completely. For me, that means understanding what works and what doesnt. Trial and lots of error over the last year hasn't helped.



    I have a technical analysis paralysis going on. I get to the course and find what stroke I'm going to use based on what feels good that morning. I may go conventional...may go lhl. I may switch it up. I've had about 6 putters this year. Way too much crap in my head that prevents me from doing what you said "see it, line it up, stroke it". I feel I'm on my way to clearing that up just from a couple hours of reading bruce's stuff, some of the blog posts 3 or 4 times.



    There's simplification coming, and that gives me hope that more putts will go in. Just yesterday I hit 12 greens with 2 near misses (less than 2 feet off the green, on the fringe). Three 3 putts. Shot 74. I made 1 putt outside 10 feet. I missed 2 putts inside 10 feet. 34 total putts. That's been the story of my year. Lots of greens and lots of putts.



    My putting "feels" are all over the place though. Going to put a stop to that.




    Yes sir. Thank you for weeding through my rambling to my point. I’m frequently misunderstood as it’s hard for me to get my thoughts onto the page.



    But what you are describing is exactly my past experience. Down to the conventional stroke and left hand low. I’ve been known to change grips from one putt to another over several holes. Lol. So I understand. It’s a blessing and a curse to be able to use many methods with decent results but you can never seem to find a clear leader.



    I found the trick was find which one works under the gun. You can simulate this in practice by playing several games like draw back etc. or my favorite. Wager against yourself and start a sort of “ swear jar”. Work out whatever dollar amount and rules will challenge you and then at the end of the season donate the pot to a local charity. Takes will power to go through with it. But can simulate competition pressure very well.



    Anyway. Just hate to see someone jump in the rabbit hole too deep to see out. Be careful. Lol.




    Thanks man. This rabbit hole had a short tunnel once I got in. I'm an overthinker too. I can see where bruce's stuff will stop that.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭



    Go watch a kid putt... they step into a putt with absolutely no fear and stroke with confidence, regardless of where it goes. You'd be surprised at how much watching a kid mess around for two to three minutes will help your own putting.




    Yes. True as wrlll. I have a 10 year old that mimicks rickie Fowler. And he’s **** good. As fluid and natural of a stroke as I know. He just steps in and bang. And makes a ton.




    Kind of like how I make more putts, in practice, by looking at the hole when I putt? Stupid game...stupid, stupid game...lol
  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members Posts: 5,481 ✭✭
    I found his post about the "Almost Face Balanced Putters" in that he mentioned something I realized back in '99 when designing my putter. On many face-balanced mallet designs, the toe tends to lag more on the forward stroke the further back the COG is in the head. It's not much, but it happens. I solved this by arranging the heel and toe weights in my putter to bring the COG more forward while still keeping the majority of the weight in the heel and toe regions. That gave me a face-balanced mallet that behaved more like a face-balanced blade.



    BT
    Bag 1
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge

    Bag 2
    Mizuno ST180 9.5* - Diamana Kai'Li 70 X
    Mizuno GPX850 14.5* - Motore Speeder TS 7.3 S
    Mizuno GPX850 20* - Motore Speeder TS 8.3
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,735 ✭✭
    getitdaily wrote:




    Go watch a kid putt... they step into a putt with absolutely no fear and stroke with confidence, regardless of where it goes. You'd be surprised at how much watching a kid mess around for two to three minutes will help your own putting.




    Yes. True as wrlll. I have a 10 year old that mimicks rickie Fowler. And he's **** good. As fluid and natural of a stroke as I know. He just steps in and bang. And makes a ton.




    Kind of like how I make more putts, in practice, by looking at the hole when I putt? Stupid game...stupid, stupid game...lol




    It has long been documented that our eyes usually only hurt us once the putter starts moving. Best thing for me is to focus on the front of the ball, so I won't watch the putter head, and then let my shoulders pass my chin and wait for the sound. One thing Bruce mentions in the pod cast that I've been using is having a part of your stance as an anchor. I like to make my right side (lead side as a lefty) firm as my anchor point. More than anything it just helps me initiate my stroke. Basically, it turns into a kind of triangle of force. Force in my right side lower body, force (light force) on the grip, and then the force of the head into the ball.
  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername. Members Posts: 478 ✭✭
    Only two things to concern yourself with when putting, pick your line, then speed.

    Two easy decisions. Technology sometimes destroys logic of man. He can't think anymore.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭


    Only two things to concern yourself with when putting, pick your line, then speed.

    Two easy decisions. Technology sometimes destroys logic of man. He can't think anymore.




    What happens if you pick.your line, pick your speed, and putt with a heel shafted putter with the ball up in your stance?



    What happens if you pick your line, pick your speed, and putt with a face balanced mallet while trying to employ a stroke where you release the toe of the putter?
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,070 ClubWRX
    getitdaily wrote:



    Only two things to concern yourself with when putting, pick your line, then speed.

    Two easy decisions. Technology sometimes destroys logic of man. He can't think anymore.




    What happens if you pick.your line, pick your speed, and putt with a heel shafted putter with the ball up in your stance?



    What happens if you pick your line, pick your speed, and putt with a face balanced mallet while trying to employ a stroke where you release the toe of the putter?




    You may miss and figure out how to adjust to the putter and then putt just fine.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    getitdaily wrote:



    Only two things to concern yourself with when putting, pick your line, then speed.

    Two easy decisions. Technology sometimes destroys logic of man. He can't think anymore.




    What happens if you pick.your line, pick your speed, and putt with a heel shafted putter with the ball up in your stance?



    What happens if you pick your line, pick your speed, and putt with a face balanced mallet while trying to employ a stroke where you release the toe of the putter?




    You may miss and figure out how to adjust to the putter and then putt just fine.




    Correct. You may miss and then compensate. Then that compensation has to be repeated over and over. Why not go into those putts with compensation needs minimized as much as possible...?

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