Finding Bruce Rearick's blog has been like stepping into a goldmine

13

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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    edited Dec 29, 2018 #62
    bargolf wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    I hope Bruce chimes in and answers my question about whether he encourages clients to match their stroke to the putter, but also I noticed and am curious what his thoughts are on being trail hand dominant and preferring LHL as a righty?



    I use the fatter grip (and a very compact grip) to keep my shoulders more level and a lot of folks think that's the real point behind LHL (Mr. Palmer included I've heard).



    So, are you fighting your trail hand dominance with the cross handed grip? Are you using it from all distances? I think some of the tour pros even switch back to RHL for lag putts.... food for thought.




    I think the putter forces the adjustment. For example a high rotation or bigger arc set up, (taller and off the ball) using a face balanced putter, will adjust their movement pattern to fit the putter. (watch Adam Scott with a short face balanced mallet) They might change to a movement pattern where the arms lead and the shoulders react. Allowing the arms to swing on a vertical plane rather than shoulders rotating on a flatter plane. But either way the possible inconsistency we see when the putter doesn't match technique usually forces a change or a call to me.



    A little in self defense. I don't claim to be better at helping a player than someone who might want to learn for themselves. What I have found is that by seeking my help they become more efficient in their self analysis and shorten the learning curve by not going off on a tangent that doesn't match what they do best. Most of my clients don't have time to work it out for themselves. The longer it takes the less they earn.



    Here is our timeline for the DIYers.

    1.Find the distance from the ball and alignment that allows you the most accurate perception of the putt. Nothing works if you don't do this. FORCED POSITIONS BY RECOMMENDATION NEVER WORKS.

    2. Find a source of motion and sequence of movement that matches the set up.

    3. Find the fit and design of a putter to match your stroke Profile. You don't want to have to continually react to a miss caused by a reaction to your putter.



    Finally - what is the benefit of level shoulders?




    Thanks for taking the time to respond, Bruce. You're a true gentleman to share your knowledge so openly.



    I think my biggest break through was using the alignment aid box based on the Sight Right to find the distance from the ball you're speaking about as Step 1. Luckily I stumbled into an old putter used by Steve Flesch and he had it bent 2 degrees up right. That basically enabled me to consistently take a position that helps me see the line over the ball correctly.



    Changing my grip to be more compact and using the larger pentagon shaped grip to level my shoulders had the effect of decreasing the amount of shaft lean in my setup and consequently at impact. It put me in a place where I could evaluate everything as simply square not just consistent for me. Feet square, femurs square, hips square, shoulders square. With my dominant left hand lower on the grip and my left shoulder dipped some I tended to want to open my stance and peak at the ball down the line. Now that the rest of my technique has improved I can take a more spread grip and make a straight stroke, but I notice that if I go back to a smaller diameter putter grip for very long that i fall back into bad habits. Probably just my own idiosyncrasy.



    I just remember an old quote (could have just been a rumor) but that some of the greats said if they started the game fresh they would learn to putt front hand low. I think perhaps the idea is that you would be more likely to lean towards the hole than away from it and get more steep rather than shallow. Hitting a putt a little steep and having it pop on you is not great, but hitting it a bit fat and only getting it a third of the way there is disastrous. For me, I think I'm simply too left handed and left hand dominant to have very good speed with a cross handed grip. But, I have seen guys putt very well with LHL and the claw.





    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,158 ✭✭
    I don't know about leaning towards the hole and having lead shoulder lower, seems to contradict pretty much every putting legend ever, Crenshaw, Faxon, Nicklaus, Tiger, Stricker, etc. Even LHL king JS hits the ball on the upswing of his stroke, and his shoulders are level at best. Use whatever works to get the ball into the hole though, doesn't matter how you conceptualize it, just that it works. Glad you've found a individualized way to get it done.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana Ltd. 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana Ltd. 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    A.Princey wrote:


    I don't know about leaning towards the hole and having lead shoulder lower, seems to contradict pretty much every putting legend ever, Crenshaw, Faxon, Nicklaus, Tiger, Stricker, etc. Even LHL king JS hits the ball on the upswing of his stroke, and his shoulders are level at best. Use whatever works to get the ball into the hole though, doesn't matter how you conceptualize it, just that it works. Glad you've found a individualized way to get it done.




    I don't know about it either. Bruce was just asking me why I think it's important that I keep my shoulder line level. My guess is that much tilt in either direction would be bad, but that perhaps trying to be more square i.e. LHL is probably more likely to produce a better miss than allowing the trail shoulder to dip due to your hand being lower on the grip with a conventional strong hand low grip. My preference is a Flatso 2.0 with my hands nearly level and my strong hand just slightly below my lead hand.
  • NoFancyUsername.NoFancyUsername. Members Posts: 474 ✭✭
    getitdaily wrote:


    getitdaily wrote:



    Only two things to concern yourself with when putting, pick your line, then speed.

    Two easy decisions. Technology sometimes destroys logic of man. He can't think anymore.




    What happens if you pick.your line, pick your speed, and putt with a heel shafted putter with the ball up in your stance?

    What happens if you pick your line, pick your speed, and putt with a face balanced mallet while trying to employ a stroke where you release the toe of the putter?




    You're over thinking it.

    Once there was only a handful of putters on the market and whatever putter ended up in your hands, it worked, because you made it work.

    Heel shafted putter? Face balanced mallet? doesn't matter. That BS has been spun and believed, hence the mind issues with putting.

    How a putter looks to ones eye and the weight of it is all that is important.

    Science&Technology has fried the brain in a lot of areas, especially golf. Benefits? of course, but not majorly. The manufacturers have brilliant PR people.

    If you believe that the heel balance/face balanced putter is affecting your putting...It will.

    The mind is a powerful thing, don't allow it to be fooled.




    We should probably not utilize SAM puttlab type systems to help then, huh?






    Whatever floats the boat.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Arc has to be inside on the way back.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Ball position closer to center than left heel
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    New putter came in the mail today (there's a thread under "carbon putters" out there) and the half way between face balanced and "medium toe flow" seems to fit my stroke great. Love the look of the slant neck from above too... funny, unboxing a model of putter you've never even seen from the top. Glad it was as positive as I hoped.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Brian Harmon putts lead hand low, trail hand dominant. Says his lead hand is just there, doesn't do much.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    So, don't laugh at me too hard....



    As I became more confident using the PN putter with 45 or so degrees of toe hang, I notice that my tempo was speeding up and I was hitting some pulls. I started thinking that I'd always wanted to try a more face balanced longer neck slant. I ordered a custom mid to long slant neck putter and as soon as I got it realized I had the whole concept backwards and that to stop a pull you need MORE toe hang not less. I have a flow neck Circa 62 #2 that I tried and confirmed that this is the case.



    Curious if that fits Bruce's experience? Does a slower tempo usually benefit from a more face balanced design and vice versa?
  • bargolfbargolf Members Posts: 307 ✭✭
    edited Jan 8, 2019 12:40pm #71
    That is a loaded question. The quick answer is not likely. More likely the opposite is true.



    It would depend on the position of the face relative to the arc at the end of the backswing.



    If you are shut then too quick to the ball would be a pull.



    Open to the arc and too quick to the ball is a push.



    It sounds the face balanced swings shut in the backswing. So a slower tempo gives you time to manipulate the face back to square.
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    bargolf wrote:


    That is a loaded question. The quick answer is not likely. More likely the opposite is true.



    It would depend on the position of the face relative to the arc at the end of the backswing.



    If you are shut then too quick to the ball would be a pull.



    Open to the arc and too quick to the ball is a push.



    It sounds the face balanced swings shut in the backswing. So a slower tempo gives you time to manipulate the face back to square.




    That makes sense to me.



    I think I do feel the need to "release" the putter, although I try not to involve my hands very much in my stroke, it's hard to say how effective I am with that goal.
  • BeautifulNiceBeautifulNice Members Posts: 232 ✭✭
    When you only look at the hole, good things usually happen.
    My cleek is sometimes peevish.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 12:54pm #74
    Few more findings...



    The plumber's neck blade was a no go under pressure. In 2 rounds I probably missed 8 putts inside 10 feet. Hit 14 and 13 greens those 2 rounds and shot 74-76. Several 3 putts in there too. The putter did reconfirm I'm a plumber's neck guy, but love the moi of a mallet. So, while my custom pn 2ball fang is being made, I bought a spider tour plumber's neck. Practice with it has been awesome. No round with it yet, but so stable.



    From a setup perspective, the spider allows me to be less right hand and a bit more even with grip pressure. A bit more shoulder swing too.



    However, as I noted, a shoulder based stroke for me misses left a lot. I've always known I have a bit of hip movement in my stroke and haven't been able to stop...ever. I tried standing pidgeon toed over putts and...instant reduction in hip movement, putter head even more stable, and a lot of putts falling. Never realized how much my feet were flared out st setup.



    Again, just practice, but I like how I feel.over the ball. Let's see if this is a honeymoon or something more...
  • bargolfbargolf Members Posts: 307 ✭✭
    getitdaily wrote:


    Few more findings...



    The plumber's neck blade was a no go under pressure. In 2 rounds I probably missed 8 putts inside 10 feet. Hit 14 and 13 greens those 2 rounds and shot 74-76. Several 3 putts in there too. The putter did reconfirm I'm a plumber's neck guy, but love the moi of a mallet. So, while my custom pn 2ball fang is being made, I bought a spider tour plumber's neck. Practice with it has been awesome. No round with it yet, but so stable.



    From a setup perspective, the spider allows me to be less right hand and a bit more even with grip pressure. A bit more shoulder swing too.



    However, as I noted, a shoulder based stroke for me misses left a lot. I've always known I have a bit of hip movement in my stroke and haven't been able to stop...ever. I tried standing pidgeon toed over putts and...instant reduction in hip movement, putter head even more stable, and a lot of putts falling. Never realized how much my feet were flared out st setup.



    Again, just practice, but I like how I feel.over the ball. Let's see if this is a honeymoon or something more...




    Focus on taking the putter away with your trail side. a drill you can try is to take your lead hand and place it on your trail shoulder. Now hit putts focusing on your trail side where the lead shoulder reacts rather than initiates. This should help the pull.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    bargolf wrote:

    getitdaily wrote:


    Few more findings...



    The plumber's neck blade was a no go under pressure. In 2 rounds I probably missed 8 putts inside 10 feet. Hit 14 and 13 greens those 2 rounds and shot 74-76. Several 3 putts in there too. The putter did reconfirm I'm a plumber's neck guy, but love the moi of a mallet. So, while my custom pn 2ball fang is being made, I bought a spider tour plumber's neck. Practice with it has been awesome. No round with it yet, but so stable.



    From a setup perspective, the spider allows me to be less right hand and a bit more even with grip pressure. A bit more shoulder swing too.



    However, as I noted, a shoulder based stroke for me misses left a lot. I've always known I have a bit of hip movement in my stroke and haven't been able to stop...ever. I tried standing pidgeon toed over putts and...instant reduction in hip movement, putter head even more stable, and a lot of putts falling. Never realized how much my feet were flared out st setup.



    Again, just practice, but I like how I feel.over the ball. Let's see if this is a honeymoon or something more...




    Focus on taking the putter away with your trail side. a drill you can try is to take your lead hand and place it on your trail shoulder. Now hit putts focusing on your trail side where the lead shoulder reacts rather than initiates. This should help the pull.




    Thanks bruce. This is a feel I've worked on for a while. Been with nothing but face balanced putters for nearly 2 years and kind of abandoned the feeling because...well, you know, fb putter would resists toe release.



    Definitely a bit more trail side dominant stroke with a bit of toe hang.
  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members Posts: 6,320 ✭✭
    Agree with the OP. It's an excellent blog and resource, especially for more analytical types.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    The more I practice with the spider tour plumber's neck the more I think I may have stumbled onto something special. This putter just transitions so effortlessly. The putter just falls from backswing to downswing without any effort or manipulation, just falls right down the line. I figured I'd have this putter until my custom 2ball fang is done. That custom putter may not see the bag for a while...
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    Some great posts from Bruce's blog and his Facebook feed. Give him a follow if you have not.



    I particularly like the post about visual discipline. I don't know what that means exactly to Bruce and Burnt Edges, but I do know that understanding Parallax helped immensely with my putting. When I started using the SightRight putting aid with a putting mirror I figured out that with the proper length putter and lie angle that I could make sure that my eyes at address see the line properly. I only use the spot from behind the ball to line up my feet and then I allow my eyes at address to see the "right line" and stroke it to the hole. Amazing how following some simple "road maps" to great putting put you in a position to get lucky.



    Putting went from my nemesis to my favorite part of the game. Shot a back nine score of -3 with 13 putts and 9 green in reg. on Friday. Fun way to play.
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    Was thinking about this thread after my round Saturday.



    My second round with the spider plumber's neck.



    Everyone in this thread was right.



    1. You can be totally mentally blocked on stroke because you don't have a putter optimally fit to your stroke.

    2. Putting is definitely all about "see the line and putt it"



    #2 is really hard to do if your putter is fighting you. Through what I found in bruce's blog, I was able to finally narrow in on what stroke tenancies I want. After that I was able to target a putter to that stroke.



    Now, my putting is a lot like my full swing - transition focused.



    Things are really looking up for my putting. 30 putts on 11 hit greens Saturday AND had 2 three-putts that I'm not even concerned about. Both 3 putts were due to me being so confident about thinking "make" that I neglected speed on 2 downhill putts and ran them well by.



    So ho around until you find the putter that works. BUT know your stroke tendancies and don't go changing your stroke just because it doesn't work one day.
  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,158 ✭✭
    Said this before and I'll say it again, hitting your line and making great contact is the most important part of putting. Like many said, mess around with different putter options/configs until these 2 things become effortless. I learned more about putting in my basement just hitting 20ft back and forth on carpet, for feel and line only, than I ever did on a green. If you can consistently hit it straight and contact feels pure, you're 90% of the way there IMO. The big issue I identified was how my stroke tended to break down at longer distance. Heavy headed, toe hang putters had me pushing all of these and my contact was off center. Practicing like this solved the problem and I still do the same routine in my basement today, looking to hit it straight and to hear/feel that perfect click off the face.
    '16 M2 10.5*, Diamana Ltd. 70 S+ 43.5"
    Ping G SFT 16*, DIamana Ltd. 70 S+ 41.5"
    Ping Rapture 3i, AWT-R
    Ping G25 4-G, DG-R400
    Vokey 56(57*), 60(63*) DG-R400
    Byron DH89 Longneck 33" (or any of 10 4 other putters...)
  • HoosierMizunoHoosierMizuno Members Posts: 3,372 ✭✭
    Would love to hear Bruce's comments or thoughts regarding the stability shaft. Do you think this is the way of the future, or do you see benefit in softer shafts. is this just going to be a personal preference, or do you believe that over time every new putter will end up having this shaft or manufacturing their own shaft with similar stiff profile.
    Ping G400 LST 10 w/ Hzrdus Black 6.0 75g
    TM M2 3HL w/ Rogue Black 70 S
    Cobra F8 19*
    J15CB w/ Modus 120X 4-P
    Cleveland RTX3 CB 50 54 58
    TM Spider Tour Black w/ T-sightline 36" 
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    Don't know how often Bruce checks on WRX. Perhaps, reach out to him on Facebook and tell him you posed a question?



    I just can't imagine that with the ball and clubhead speed's we're talking about that the tiny bit of flex in the shaft would have much of an effect on face angle, but I could be wrong.



    I agree with you it would be interesting to hear what Bruce thinks about it.
  • bargolfbargolf Members Posts: 307 ✭✭
    I have a suggestion on how you might come to your own conclusions.



    Take the grip end of the putter in one hand, take the putter head in the other. Turn you hands in opposite directions and try to twist the shaft. Now imagine the pressure you put on the shaft compared to the pressure of the ball against the face at around 5mph.



    My personal conclusion is if the putter is not stable at impact it is as more a function of the security of the grip in your hands and rather than the torque of a putter shaft.



    Having said that if you can feel the shaft "give" you might want to consider a different shaft.
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,876 ✭✭
    bargolf wrote:


    I have a suggestion on how you might come to your own conclusions.



    Take the grip end of the putter in one hand, take the putter head in the other. Turn you hands in opposite directions and try to twist the shaft. Now imagine the pressure you put on the shaft compared to the pressure of the ball against the face at around 5mph.



    My personal conclusion is if the putter is not stable at impact it is as more a function of the security of the grip in your hands and rather than the torque of a putter shaft.



    Having said that if you can feel the shaft "give" you might want to consider a different shaft.




    Have you found any benefit to putter shafts that are softer in flex vs what is typically found in a stock putter these days?
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:

    bargolf wrote:


    I have a suggestion on how you might come to your own conclusions.



    Take the grip end of the putter in one hand, take the putter head in the other. Turn you hands in opposite directions and try to twist the shaft. Now imagine the pressure you put on the shaft compared to the pressure of the ball against the face at around 5mph.



    My personal conclusion is if the putter is not stable at impact it is as more a function of the security of the grip in your hands and rather than the torque of a putter shaft.



    Having said that if you can feel the shaft "give" you might want to consider a different shaft.




    Have you found any benefit to putter shafts that are softer in flex vs what is typically found in a stock putter these days?




    I find it interesting that a lot of old putters came with fluted shafts which I assume were to add flex to the shaft, perhaps enhance feel? I wonder if that was simply due to the fact that they didn't realize that "feel" was mostly sound, or perhaps they do mute the sound a bit, too? I don't know, but I have a few and I do think they feel nice.
  • bargolfbargolf Members Posts: 307 ✭✭
    edited Feb 8, 2019 2:52pm #87
    Some of the information on how we recommend I consider proprietary, so I will share what I feel I can.



    We started with premise that timing and stroke length with TP/David Mills pencil shafts tended to be slower and longer than other shafts. If we felt a player was too short and too quick, could we get them to slow down using that shaft.



    Using PuttLab we saw the difference very quickly. In some cases within the first 10 putts. I have no proof, but based on some additional data we got from the Oven we came to the conclusion it had to do with a combination acceleration rates and shaft vibration frequency, post impact. Basically Nike came to the conclusion certain vibration frequencies feel more pleasing than others. Face inserts, grooves, shaft inserts, shaft weight, grip composition are just some of the factors in how vibration is transferred to the hands.



    Right hand on Bible, I can feel the kick at the bottom of my stroke with a Head Speed shaft. I also know flex of my Head Speed shaft compared to my other putters, Perception or realty?
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,876 ✭✭
    Was the "Head Speed" shaft in Nike putters?



    I've got an Apollo junior flex steel iron shaft, that I'm thinking of testing in a putter
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,440 ✭✭
    bargolf wrote:


    Some of the information on how we recommend I consider proprietary, so I will share what I feel I can.



    We started with premise that timing and stroke length with TP/David Mills pencil shafts tended to be slower and longer than other shafts. If we felt a player was too short and too quick, could we get them to slow down using that shaft.



    Using PuttLab we saw the difference very quickly. In some cases within the first 10 putts. I have no proof, but based on some additional data we got from the Oven we came to the conclusion it had to do with a combination acceleration rates and shaft vibration frequency, post impact. Basically Nike came to the conclusion certain vibration frequencies feel more pleasing than others. Face inserts, grooves, shaft inserts, shaft weight, grip composition are just some of the factors in how vibration is transferred to the hands.



    Right hand on Bible, I can feel the kick at the bottom of my stroke with a Head Speed shaft. I also know flex of my Head Speed shaft compared to my other putters, Perception or realty?




    Interesting. If interpret correctly, shaft can influence feel of the head and thus, transition, just like irons and woods?
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    bargolf wrote:


    Some of the information on how we recommend I consider proprietary, so I will share what I feel I can.



    We started with premise that timing and stroke length with TP/David Mills pencil shafts tended to be slower and longer than other shafts. If we felt a player was too short and too quick, could we get them to slow down using that shaft.



    Using PuttLab we saw the difference very quickly. In some cases within the first 10 putts. I have no proof, but based on some additional data we got from the Oven we came to the conclusion it had to do with a combination acceleration rates and shaft vibration frequency, post impact. Basically Nike came to the conclusion certain vibration frequencies feel more pleasing than others. Face inserts, grooves, shaft inserts, shaft weight, grip composition are just some of the factors in how vibration is transferred to the hands.



    Right hand on Bible, I can feel the kick at the bottom of my stroke with a Head Speed shaft. I also know flex of my Head Speed shaft compared to my other putters, Perception or realty?




    Thanks for sharing.



    Pretty awesome information. I've experimented a lot with shafts lately and put a driver shaft in a putter recently. I love that there's all kinds of attention to the putter shaft at the moment. Cool stuff! Thanks Bruce!
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:


    Was the "Head Speed" shaft in Nike putters?



    I've got an Apollo junior flex steel iron shaft, that I'm thinking of testing in a putter




    Head Speed was OEM shaft for the old Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer 8802's. They had a shaft band with two green mountain looking V's.



    Here, it looks like this...



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