Where is the best competition for junior golf?

2

Comments

  • GolfSRQGolfSRQ Members Posts: 45 ✭✭
    jj9000 wrote:



    Also - instruction/facilities are pretty irrelevant; it’s not like most people will pay for “top” rated instructors or belong to the top country clubs. The real reason why more pros/ junior golfers come out of FL, TX and CA is bc a greater number of parents/children are willing to go all in on golf - even if that means huge sacrifices, including academics. Not just being a 4.0 student at some small obscure town, but really being able to have the same academic foundation to go to a top college and succeed at such institution (you just wouldn’t have the time to practice golf as much as it takes to be a top junior and study). Forget all the other social sacrifices. Because you have more “all in” players, you have much better competition locally, which I do believe is a key ingredient to becoming an elite junior golfer. The reality is that you have a better chance of making millions in finance than becoming a professional athlete. If you were to expend similar hours on academics as some of these parents do in golf, you would have an easier road to a top university, followed by a big-bank job, followed by a private equity gig.




    I disagree with the theory of 'all-in' parents in TX/FL/CA being the driver for more top golfers coming from these states, in comparison to the Tri-State area.



    Set parenting aside for a moment. Being able to play golf 12 months per year...every year...is likely a bigger contributor.


    It’s being able to play all year. Same 3 states also produce far more 4 and 5 star football recruits than anywhere else.

    I grew up in NJ and moved to FL. Parents are more competitive / intense in NJ than here in FL. Down here you can play all the time. It makes a big difference for all outdoor sports
  • TigerMomTigerMom Members Posts: 215 ✭✭

    jj9000 wrote:



    Also - instruction/facilities are pretty irrelevant; it's not like most people will pay for "top" rated instructors or belong to the top country clubs. The real reason why more pros/ junior golfers come out of FL, TX and CA is bc a greater number of parents/children are willing to go all in on golf - even if that means huge sacrifices, including academics. Not just being a 4.0 student at some small obscure town, but really being able to have the same academic foundation to go to a top college and succeed at such institution (you just wouldn't have the time to practice golf as much as it takes to be a top junior and study). Forget all the other social sacrifices. Because you have more "all in" players, you have much better competition locally, which I do believe is a key ingredient to becoming an elite junior golfer. The reality is that you have a better chance of making millions in finance than becoming a professional athlete. If you were to expend similar hours on academics as some of these parents do in golf, you would have an easier road to a top university, followed by a big-bank job, followed by a private equity gig.




    I disagree with the theory of 'all-in' parents in TX/FL/CA being the driver for more top golfers coming from these states, in comparison to the Tri-State area.



    Set parenting aside for a moment. Being able to play golf 12 months per year...every year...is likely a bigger contributor.




    We are kind of saying the same thing. Whether it's playing year-round golf or going all in, where you're from doesn't necessarily dictate how much golf you can get during a year. You can travel and there are indoor practice facilities everywhere. Didn't the recent junior am champion come from MA? I know a kid from CT that ha finished top 5 at worlds every year since he was 6. It's the drive of parents and/or kids to go all in.




    Ultimately the kids in better climates who are able to play year-round will be closer to reaching their potential than kids who can only play 7-9 months of the year
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,031 ✭✭
    FCG Southwest Championship Event added to Houston in late August for those of you in the area. Limited field on a future PGA track (2020 season opening PGA Tour Houston Open).



    Caddies allowed for 14U for those that still like to assist their kiddos.



    FCG runs some great events so give it a chance if you can.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 10:51am #35
    I would agree that being able to play and practice year-round is more beneficial once you hit a certain age/swing maturity. My question is - if you’re playing year-round tourneys when do you get a chance to focus on any changes to the swing as you start honing it with tourneys going around. I don’t touch my son’s swing during tourney season (April - October) even if I know what the flaws are. Even if the flaw is minor, at some point it takes time to practice and fix. Do you guys in the warmer states work on swing changes and still play tourneys? Do you ever worry that you’re continuing to ingrain bad habits?



    For example - my son had a flat shoulder plane with the club getting to the inside. He’s athletic enough to still not cast from that position and make solid contact (impact position has always been good and distance has never been a concern even at world’s). But I always knew this wouldn’t produce the best wrist angles coming into the ball (or best consistency) so we’ve spent the off-season working on changing this. If we were playing tournaments or even casual rounds, I would never do this as he would get frustrated that the immediate results aren’t there compared to his old swing. Maybe it’s kid-dependent? Or is it that the warmer areas allow you to still implement and play so much that ot works? Or is it that by playing so much more allows one to develop a better short game to score despite swing flaws, which is a skill (short game) that can be honed with more hours of practice (e.g., distance control feel).
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,031 ✭✭


    I would agree that being able to play and practice year-round is more beneficial once you hit a certain age/swing maturity. My question is - if you're playing year-round tourneys when do you get a chance to focus on any changes to the swing as you start honing it with tourneys going around. I don't touch my son's swing during tourney season (April - October) even if I know what the flaws are. Even if the flaw is minor, at some point it takes time to practice and fix. Do you guys in the warmer states work on swing changes and still play tourneys? Do you ever worry that you're continuing to ingrain bad habits?



    For example - my son had a flat shoulder plane with the club getting to the inside. He's athletic enough to still not cast from that position and make solid contact (impact position has always been good and distance has never been a concern even at world's). But I always knew this wouldn't produce the best wrist angles coming into the ball (or beat consistency) so we've spent the off-season working on changing this. If we were playing tournaments or even casual rounds, I would never do this as he would get frustrated that the immediate results aren't there compared to his old swing. Maybe it's kid-dependent? Or is it that the warmer areas allow you to still implement and play so much that ot works? Or is it that by playing so much more allows one to develop a better short game to score despite swing flaws, which is a skill (short game) that can be honed with more hours of practice (e.g., distance control feel).




    This is all my opinion but at 10 you should be focused on the basics... Grip, Alignment, Ball Position, Putting, Pace of Play and Etiquette. Any instructor that teaches a kid under the age of 11-12 a 'swing' is doing them a disservice. Let the natural athlete out and don't stifle them with 'proper' swing mechanics.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 10:57am #37
    I don’t think “proper” swing mechanics is the appropriate characterization. What’s proper to one teacher may not be proper to another, although all are in agreement with impact.



    What if your junior is already good at the fundamentals you list? Not sure ball position is a fundamental as there are different philosophies with regard to that as well.



    We can agree to disagree and I think age is irrelevant and dependent where they are in their development. But even speed training, what’s the point of doing that with a flawed swing? In my limited sample size, even the best 9-year olds are focused on swing and not just hitting the ball.
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,031 ✭✭


    In my limited sample size, even the best 9-year olds are focused on swing and not just hitting the ball.




    You act like being a 'best' 9 year old means something.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 11:36am #39
    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you’re 12 is better than doing it when you’re 10. I’m just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I’m not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger’s and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.



    Now let’s ring the bell for all of the “it’s all about the short game” posters to chime in.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭


    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you're 12 is better than doing it when you're 10. I'm just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I'm not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger's and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.




    Most kids that are 12 have serious swing flaws. It is the minority that don't need to focus on their swings. You can probably count the kids on one hand that are that good. Even kids who are the top of their game usually have major problems when there 12 or 13. When kids are younger they can keep it on the fairway but if you needing to hit 300 yards you better have a good swing. It's the same thing for girls but of course not the same distances.



    The kids with a good swing and can hit the ball strait are dangerous.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,063 ✭✭


    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you're 12 is better than doing it when you're 10. I'm just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I'm not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger's and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.



    Now let's ring the bell for all of the "it's all about the short game" posters to chime in.




    Two things.



    1. It doesn't matter what a 9 year old does.

    2. A 12 year old playing AJGA is the exception, not the rule. The majority of 12 year olds will never get into any AJGA they apply for. They will never gain entry to an Open, Junior All Star, or Preview.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭



    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you're 12 is better than doing it when you're 10. I'm just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I'm not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger's and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.



    Now let's ring the bell for all of the "it's all about the short game" posters to chime in.




    Two things.



    1. It doesn't matter what a 9 year old does.

    2. A 12 year old playing AJGA is the exception, not the rule. The majority of 12 year olds will never get into any AJGA they apply for. They will never gain entry to an Open, Junior All Star, or Preview.




    You're probably right at 12. But plenty of 13-14 year olds make up the field of the Junior All Star events.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 2:36pm #43




    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you're 12 is better than doing it when you're 10. I'm just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I'm not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger's and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.



    Now let's ring the bell for all of the "it's all about the short game" posters to chime in.




    Two things.



    1. It doesn't matter what a 9 year old does.

    2. A 12 year old playing AJGA is the exception, not the rule. The majority of 12 year olds will never get into any AJGA they apply for. They will never gain entry to an Open, Junior All Star, or Preview.




    You're probably right at 12. But plenty of 13-14 year olds make up the field of the Junior All Star events.




    No 12 year makes it unless they win a lot events that aged up into and then actually either won placed enough to get PBE stars. For instance to get into the Hunter Mahan AJGA event in Frisco you needed something like 80 PBE stars for girls. Not many kids have that many stars unless you win a lot events. A lot accomplished juniors 12 and 13 were shut out of that event. I've heard the begining of the year is the worst for needing PBE stars but still your not going to sign up and waltz into an event.



    At 12 your lucky to win 1 or 2 PBE stars at a few big tournaments your age. So the only option is to age up and gain entry into larger events when you were 11 and actually do well enough to get stars. This is not easy and would require a lot travel to accomplish. The other thing is you lose stars every time you play an event. It's also not easy to make Junior All Star Events even at 13-14 unless you do a lot of planning and actually do well.



    At the end of the day focusing on development and lower consistent scores across tournaments is what matters do that and you will rise in the ranks and gain status. A player who breaks par consistently will rise better and faster in rankings than one that can't break par.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 2:55pm #44
    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event, 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.



    If you stretch to age 14U, it's the majority of the field of AJGA Junior All Star events.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 2:59pm #45
    tiger1873 wrote:





    It means something. Maybe not from the standpoint of college recruitment, but the confidence that kid is gaining is unmeasurable. Look - my opinions come from watching a junior grow to a UVA scholarship and another that is going to a good DII program (could have gone lowered tier D1). Both are family members and one of whom I was involved heavily with throughout the process.



    Everyone can take a different path and peak at the right time when it matters. But AJGA starts as young as 12. Look at the top ranked juniors and see how many played in the AJGA 12-15 events. Not sure focusing on a swing change when you're 12 is better than doing it when you're 10. I'm just trying to provide food for thought on these forums. There is no proven blueprint with respect to timeline. But there is a reason why the top players, junior or otherwise, come into impact at similar angles. There is also a reason why it took Tiger over a year of dedicated work (the best ever btw) to implement swing changes. I'm not advocating a perfect swing and I think one of Tiger's and many faults of good players is constant tinkering. But I am saying if it takes the greatest ever over a year to hone a swing change practicing it 8 hours a day, not sure if you can have your junior do it in less time at 12 or 13.



    Now let's ring the bell for all of the "it's all about the short game" posters to chime in.




    Two things.



    1. It doesn't matter what a 9 year old does.

    2. A 12 year old playing AJGA is the exception, not the rule. The majority of 12 year olds will never get into any AJGA they apply for. They will never gain entry to an Open, Junior All Star, or Preview.




    You're probably right at 12. But plenty of 13-14 year olds make up the field of the Junior All Star events.




    No 12 year makes it unless they win a lot events that aged up into and then actually either won placed enough to get PBE stars. For instance to get into the Hunter Mahan AJGA event in Frisco you needed something like 80 PBE stars for girls. Not many kids have that many stars unless you win a lot events. A lot accomplished juniors 12 and 13 were shut out of that event. I've heard the begining of the year is the worst for needing PBE stars but still your not going to sign up and waltz into an event.



    At 12 your lucky to win 1 or 2 PBE stars at a few big tournaments your age. So the only option is to age up and gain entry into larger events when you were 11 and actually do well enough to get stars. This is not easy and would require a lot travel to accomplish. The other thing is you lose stars every time you play an event. It's also not easy to make Junior All Star Events even at 13-14 unless you do a lot of planning and actually do well.



    At the end of the day focusing on development and lower consistent scores across tournaments is what matters do that and you will rise in the ranks and gain status. A player who breaks par consistently will rise better and faster in rankings than one that can't break par.


    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event it was 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.




    Hunter AJGA was not a junior all star event, hence the number of stars. You can get into the junior events with 6 stars, one of which you earn by signing up for AJGA. And earning another star at a qualifier to the event is reasonable. Do well in four-five qualifiers and get your free star for signing up and you should be able to play at least one Junior All Star event by the time you're 14.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 3:27pm #46


    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event it was 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.




    I didn't say Junior All Star wasn't made of 12-15 year olds I just said it wasn't easy to get into as your making it out to be.



    To play in those events your going to either have to have won elsewhere and have enough PBE stars or you not going to get in. Everyone gets a free PBE star for signing up so it is meaningless. Most of those kids are closer to 14-15 the 12-13 age bracket is an exception not the rule when your talking AGJA.



    If you talking about 6 PBE stars are not that easy to come by for younger kids. A lot events for 12 year olds only give 1 PBE star to the champion and they expire within 24 months. The kids getting enough PBE status are playing against older kids and longer yardage in general and placing well. Most of the events with multiple PBE stars up for grabs are for kids 13 and older The 2024 kids you are seeing are probably the older ones closer to 14 not the younger ones just turning 13. The key here is to spend PBE wisely because you need to play events that PBE that have enough of a field to keep playing. Small AGJA events don't always offer PBE status like bigger events. The larger the event the more stars it costs but it also allows for more chances to win PBE to keep playing. I am over simplifying things but you should get the point.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 3:16pm #47
    tiger1873 wrote:



    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event it was 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.




    I didn't say Junior All Star wasn't made of 12-15 year olds I just said it wasn't easy to get into as your making it out to be. To play in those events your going to either have to have won elsewhere and have enough PBE stars or you not going to get in. Most of those kids are closer to 14-15 not the 12-13 age bracket is an exception not the rule when your talking AGJA.



    If you talking about 6 PBE stars are not easy to come by for younger kids a lot events for 12 year olds only give 1 PBE star to the champion and they expire within 20 months. The kids getting more than that are playing against older kids and longer yardage in general. Most of the events with multiple PBE stars are for kids 13. The 2024 kids you are seeing are probably the older ones closer to 14 not the younger ones just turning 13.




    My correction to Heavy was that 13-14 was probably the norm. That is the majority of any field at a junior all star event. You made it seem impossible by bringing up the Hunter AJGA event, which isn't even a Junior All Star event. Have you heard of qualifiers? Have you had a child participate in AJGA? Do you even know the landscape? My problem is you making blanket statements based solely on your assumptions and opinions when your intent should be to help out juniors and their parents on this forum.



    You do know that one of the easier ways to earn stars is through qualifiers and not winning your local PGA section or finishing top 5.
  • wlmwlm Members Posts: 94 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 6:06pm #48
    Late in the summer, you can get into JAS tournaments with very few stars, potentially even just 1.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 5:17pm #49

    tiger1873 wrote:



    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event it was 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.




    I didn't say Junior All Star wasn't made of 12-15 year olds I just said it wasn't easy to get into as your making it out to be. To play in those events your going to either have to have won elsewhere and have enough PBE stars or you not going to get in. Most of those kids are closer to 14-15 not the 12-13 age bracket is an exception not the rule when your talking AGJA.



    If you talking about 6 PBE stars are not easy to come by for younger kids a lot events for 12 year olds only give 1 PBE star to the champion and they expire within 20 months. The kids getting more than that are playing against older kids and longer yardage in general. Most of the events with multiple PBE stars are for kids 13. The 2024 kids you are seeing are probably the older ones closer to 14 not the younger ones just turning 13.




    My correction to Heavy was that 13-14 was probably the norm. That is the majority of any field at a junior all star event. You made it seem impossible by bringing up the Hunter AJGA event, which isn't even a Junior All Star event. Have you heard of qualifiers? Have you had a child participate in AJGA? Do you even know the landscape? My problem is you making blanket statements based solely on your assumptions and opinions when your intent should be to help out juniors and their parents on this forum.



    You do know that one of the easier ways to earn stars is through qualifiers and not winning your local PGA section or finishing top 5.




    I have a 12 year old so I am very aware of AJGA and it is not just as easy as signing up to a few qualifiers which can be even more competitive then your local pga section.



    I don’t think you guys understand the commitment needed to play regularly in AJGA events.



    Yes there are some events that you can maybe get into because there ones no one else wants to play. We decided to pass on those one even though my kid could have played in them. The reason because the field was small and it required travel and time off. The smaller field means less chance for PBE.



    To play in AJGA means you have to plan it out and then actually perform. Most people her don’t have a clue that a 2025 or 2024 has a slim chance of playing any event unless they won a major event angainst older kids. Think Alexo Pano as an example of someone who did that. You also have to remeber they traveled extensively as well to make that happen.



    Everyone here make it sound easy but even for girls you going to need to break 75 at 5800 yards to have a good chance to play in AJGA events regularly. For boys it means breaking par. If there not scoring that don’t expect to get a ton PBE stars out there or play in top tournaments that will actually help with ranking.



    This why I say focusing on consistent low scoring is what matters in the long run. A kid who delays there entry and can break par will be better off in the long run then the kid who jumps the gun and plays too early.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 5:48pm #50
    tiger1873 wrote:


    tiger1873 wrote:



    Tiger - please research and be informative. I don't mind your opinions but be helpful when you state facts.



    2019 Junior All-Star at Windsor - of the 48 field, 12 were class of 2023-2024 which puts them at 12-13, given that the 15-year old class is 2021. I'm sure it will be similar for other junior all star events in 2019.



    For girls at that event it was 8 out of a field of 30 were class of 2023-2024.




    I didn't say Junior All Star wasn't made of 12-15 year olds I just said it wasn't easy to get into as your making it out to be. To play in those events your going to either have to have won elsewhere and have enough PBE stars or you not going to get in. Most of those kids are closer to 14-15 not the 12-13 age bracket is an exception not the rule when your talking AGJA.



    If you talking about 6 PBE stars are not easy to come by for younger kids a lot events for 12 year olds only give 1 PBE star to the champion and they expire within 20 months. The kids getting more than that are playing against older kids and longer yardage in general. Most of the events with multiple PBE stars are for kids 13. The 2024 kids you are seeing are probably the older ones closer to 14 not the younger ones just turning 13.




    My correction to Heavy was that 13-14 was probably the norm. That is the majority of any field at a junior all star event. You made it seem impossible by bringing up the Hunter AJGA event, which isn't even a Junior All Star event. Have you heard of qualifiers? Have you had a child participate in AJGA? Do you even know the landscape? My problem is you making blanket statements based solely on your assumptions and opinions when your intent should be to help out juniors and their parents on this forum.



    You do know that one of the easier ways to earn stars is through qualifiers and not winning your local PGA section or finishing top 5.




    I have a 12 year old so I am very aware of AJGA and it is not just as easy as signing up to a few qualifiers which can be even more competitive then your local pga section.



    I don't think you guys understand the commitment needed to play regularly in AJGA events.



    Yes there are some events that you can maybe get into because there ones no one else wants to play. We decided to pass on those one even though my kid could have played in them. The reason because the field was small and it required travel and time off. The smaller field means less chance for PBE.



    To play in AJGA means you have to plan it out and then actually perform. Most people her don't have a clue that a 2025 or 2024 has a slim chance of playing any event unless they won a major event angainst older kids. Think Alexo Pano as an example of someone who did that. You also have to remeber they traveled extensively as well to make that happen.



    Everyone here make it sound easy but even for girls you going to need to break 75 at 5800 yards to have a good chance to play in AJGA events regularly. For boys it means breaking par. If there not scoring that don't expect to get a ton PBE stars out there or play in top tournaments that will actually help with ranking.



    This why I say focusing on consistent low scoring is what matters in the long run. A kid who delays there entry and can break par will be better off in the long run then the kid who jumps the gun and plays too early.




    Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. PBE stars are not determined by field size or quality. They are all set based on the finishes of ALL tournaments in the same category (e.g., Open v. Junior All Star). So if you think a field is too small or weak for an event (again, your opinion), you would be better suited to travel to that event because it would be an easier field for you to gain stars based on their set criteria of how many stars are awarded to the winner, top 5, top 20%, top 50%... But while some fields in different parts of the country may not be as strong as others in the same category tournament (e.g., OPEN), the number of stars that can be earned or criteria to become fully exempt is the same. Also, you don't lose more stars in the same tournament category because it was more competitive to enter (i.e., more stars required to make the field); even if it took the top person 80 stars to get into the field, that person and every other person in the field (outside of the qualifiers) loses ONLY 4 stars per open tournament entry.
  • wlmwlm Members Posts: 94 ✭✭
    Here's the process for younger kids. Start playing qualifiers, particularly convenient events, as early as possible. You don't have to commit to the tournament even if you happen to qualify, and you get a star for top half. Play in the one Preview series tournament that you will ever get into. Pick a good location / course. Top half gets a star. Play other local tours if they offer PBE. You can spend the stars in the year earned, and then you get them back for the next year. Find a late summer, low star tournament and commit to it. At the end of the day, the kid is going to have to be a good player to progress, but this gets the opportunity started. Recap: start playing qualifiers as soon as it is a reasonable option.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    wlm wrote:


    Here's the process for younger kids. Start playing qualifiers, particularly convenient events, as early as possible. You don't have to commit to the tournament even if you happen to qualify, and you get a star for top half. Play in the one Preview series tournament that you will ever get into. Pick a good location / course. Top half gets a star. Play other local tours if they offer PBE. You can spend the stars in the year earned, and then you get them back for the next year. Find a late summer, low star tournament and commit to it. At the end of the day, the kid is going to have to be a good player to progress, but this gets the opportunity started. Recap: start playing qualifiers as soon as it is a reasonable option.




    You absolutely get less stars. If a field is too small they only away PBE stars to the champion the others are reduced to 1 star. In the case above I noticed that unless you were the champion you would get 1 star. The larger the field the easier it to get stars even if you do not win. Playing a full field and playing well is the best way to get PBE Stars.





    The same thing happens in non AJGA events in some cases if there are not enough players no stars get awarded. This why I say you have to plan to get stars.
  • wlmwlm Members Posts: 94 ✭✭
    edited Feb 26, 2019 7:05pm #53
  • barrysmootbarrysmoot It's Not So Much How You Drive, But How You Arrive ;) Members Posts: 398 ClubWRX
    edited Mar 2, 2019 12:00pm #54
    TigerMom wrote:


    jj9000 wrote:



    Also - instruction/facilities are pretty irrelevant; it's not like most people will pay for "top" rated instructors or belong to the top country clubs. The real reason why more pros/ junior golfers come out of FL, TX and CA is bc a greater number of parents/children are willing to go all in on golf - even if that means huge sacrifices, including academics. Not just being a 4.0 student at some small obscure town, but really being able to have the same academic foundation to go to a top college and succeed at such institution (you just wouldn't have the time to practice golf as much as it takes to be a top junior and study). Forget all the other social sacrifices. Because you have more "all in" players, you have much better competition locally, which I do believe is a key ingredient to becoming an elite junior golfer. The reality is that you have a better chance of making millions in finance than becoming a professional athlete. If you were to expend similar hours on academics as some of these parents do in golf, you would have an easier road to a top university, followed by a big-bank job, followed by a private equity gig.




    I disagree with the theory of 'all-in' parents in TX/FL/CA being the driver for more top golfers coming from these states, in comparison to the Tri-State area.



    Set parenting aside for a moment. Being able to play golf 12 months per year...every year...is likely a bigger contributor.




    We are kind of saying the same thing. Whether it's playing year-round golf or going all in, where you're from doesn't necessarily dictate how much golf you can get during a year. You can travel and there are indoor practice facilities everywhere. Didn't the recent junior am champion come from MA? I know a kid from CT that ha finished top 5 at worlds every year since he was 6. It's the drive of parents and/or kids to go all in.




    Ultimately the kids in better climates who are able to play year-round will be closer to reaching their potential than kids who can only play 7-9 months of the year




    I agree and numbers alone are the biggest factor: weather, population, GDP (1- CA, 2- TX, 4- FL) . "Elite golfers" and "All in Parents" are everywhere in any state. However, when you have more people, more money, and more access to golf 24/7, the greater the probability of more competition.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Mar 3, 2019 11:22am #55
    TigerMom wrote:


    TigerMom wrote:


    Is it FL, CA, AZ, TX?



    How about for US Kids Regional Tournaments - which are the ones that attract the best competition?




    Tristate better than AZ. Jersey tours have 150+ kids with 15+ in a lot of age groups. Also MET is one of the best PGA sections in the country.




    This is interesting



    Besides sheer numbers, would you say that NJ and MET section talent level are same as the others mentioned?




    Not sure as I have not tracked any data. Being to national events, I would say probably not as much talent as CA, TX or FL. But in the last couple of years from MET, I know of a male Stanford (Stanford has 2 NYers on the team), #1 on FSU and a Duke commit. For girls, there seems to be a ton of asians from the tristate that's highly ranked. Current rolex rankings, #2 is a MA kid and a kid from top 5 class of 21 is a NYC kid and I have known him the last four years or so (although he moved to TX last year to focus on golf).



    Again, sample size is too small, but I have to believe on sheer number of people and level of income, tristate is competitive. Can't really judge on overall talent level as sample size is too small and I don't feel like researching data. Also, can't go by what these kids do at US Kids Worlds bc bermuda greens are a different animal, and, as one poster has mentioned in the past, if you're not willing to go a couple weeks early and learn the greens, impossible to do well. I thought having gone the last four years, I figured it out, but it's just too different from bent. I know we go on the day of parade and leave on the final round, and most of the families I know from the NE that go do not really prepare that much for those greens.



    It can't be just warm-weathered based. What about all the great players from Europe and great female players from Asia. I would say it's more the drive of the parents (at younger ages) and kids at older ages.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭

    TigerMom wrote:


    TigerMom wrote:


    Is it FL, CA, AZ, TX?



    How about for US Kids Regional Tournaments - which are the ones that attract the best competition?




    Tristate better than AZ. Jersey tours have 150+ kids with 15+ in a lot of age groups. Also MET is one of the best PGA sections in the country.




    This is interesting



    Besides sheer numbers, would you say that NJ and MET section talent level are same as the others mentioned?




    Not sure as I have not tracked any data. Being to national events, I would say probably not as much talent as CA, TX or FL. But in the last couple of years from MET, I know of a male Stanford (Stanford has 2 NYers on the team), #1 on FSU and a Duke commit. For girls, there seems to be a ton of asians from the tristate that's highly ranked. Current rolex rankings, #2 is a MA kid and a kid from top 5 class of 21 is a NYC kid and I have known him the last four years or so (although he moved to TX last year to focus on golf).



    Again, sample size is too small, but I have to believe on sheer number of people and level of income, tristate is competitive. Can't really judge on overall talent level as sample size is too small and I don't feel like researching data. Also, can't go by what these kids do at US Kids Worlds bc bermuda greens are a different animal, and, as one poster has mentioned in the past, if you're not willing to go a couple weeks early and learn the greens, impossible to do well. I thought having gone the last four years, I figured it out, but it's just too different from bent. I know we go on the day of parade and leave on the final round, and most of the families I know from the NE that go do not really prepare that much for those greens.



    It can't be just warm-weathered based. What about all the great players from Europe and great female players from Asia. I would say it's more the drive of the parents (at younger ages) and kids at older ages.




    Any players who are nationally ranked and play in a northern state like the tri-state area are playing golf year round and probably stay in a southern state like FL, AZ or Ca during the winter.



    The same think happens in the summer with southern kids they head north to cooler spots to play.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:


    TigerMom wrote:


    TigerMom wrote:


    Is it FL, CA, AZ, TX?



    How about for US Kids Regional Tournaments - which are the ones that attract the best competition?




    Tristate better than AZ. Jersey tours have 150+ kids with 15+ in a lot of age groups. Also MET is one of the best PGA sections in the country.




    This is interesting



    Besides sheer numbers, would you say that NJ and MET section talent level are same as the others mentioned?




    Not sure as I have not tracked any data. Being to national events, I would say probably not as much talent as CA, TX or FL. But in the last couple of years from MET, I know of a male Stanford (Stanford has 2 NYers on the team), #1 on FSU and a Duke commit. For girls, there seems to be a ton of asians from the tristate that's highly ranked. Current rolex rankings, #2 is a MA kid and a kid from top 5 class of 21 is a NYC kid and I have known him the last four years or so (although he moved to TX last year to focus on golf).



    Again, sample size is too small, but I have to believe on sheer number of people and level of income, tristate is competitive. Can't really judge on overall talent level as sample size is too small and I don't feel like researching data. Also, can't go by what these kids do at US Kids Worlds bc bermuda greens are a different animal, and, as one poster has mentioned in the past, if you're not willing to go a couple weeks early and learn the greens, impossible to do well. I thought having gone the last four years, I figured it out, but it's just too different from bent. I know we go on the day of parade and leave on the final round, and most of the families I know from the NE that go do not really prepare that much for those greens.



    It can't be just warm-weathered based. What about all the great players from Europe and great female players from Asia. I would say it's more the drive of the parents (at younger ages) and kids at older ages.




    Any players who are nationally ranked and play in a northern state like the tri-state area are playing golf year round and probably stay in a southern state like FL, AZ or Ca during the winter.



    The same think happens in the summer with southern kids they head north to cooler spots to play.




    What do you mean? They leave school and live down south for the winter? Not true - that I know for a fact.



    Playing or traveling during winter breaks - yes. Playing in tournaments year round - yes, but definitely not the case at younger ages.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    edited Mar 3, 2019 7:17pm #58

    tiger1873 wrote:


    TigerMom wrote:





    Tristate better than AZ. Jersey tours have 150+ kids with 15+ in a lot of age groups. Also MET is one of the best PGA sections in the country.




    This is interesting



    Besides sheer numbers, would you say that NJ and MET section talent level are same as the others mentioned?




    Not sure as I have not tracked any data. Being to national events, I would say probably not as much talent as CA, TX or FL. But in the last couple of years from MET, I know of a male Stanford (Stanford has 2 NYers on the team), #1 on FSU and a Duke commit. For girls, there seems to be a ton of asians from the tristate that's highly ranked. Current rolex rankings, #2 is a MA kid and a kid from top 5 class of 21 is a NYC kid and I have known him the last four years or so (although he moved to TX last year to focus on golf).



    Again, sample size is too small, but I have to believe on sheer number of people and level of income, tristate is competitive. Can't really judge on overall talent level as sample size is too small and I don't feel like researching data. Also, can't go by what these kids do at US Kids Worlds bc bermuda greens are a different animal, and, as one poster has mentioned in the past, if you're not willing to go a couple weeks early and learn the greens, impossible to do well. I thought having gone the last four years, I figured it out, but it's just too different from bent. I know we go on the day of parade and leave on the final round, and most of the families I know from the NE that go do not really prepare that much for those greens.



    It can't be just warm-weathered based. What about all the great players from Europe and great female players from Asia. I would say it's more the drive of the parents (at younger ages) and kids at older ages.




    Any players who are nationally ranked and play in a northern state like the tri-state area are playing golf year round and probably stay in a southern state like FL, AZ or Ca during the winter.



    The same think happens in the summer with southern kids they head north to cooler spots to play.




    What do you mean? They leave school and live down south for the winter? Not true - that I know for a fact.



    Playing or traveling during winter breaks - yes. Playing in tournaments year round - yes, but definitely not the case at younger ages.




    I see a heck of lot northern kids living down here for the full winter and doing school online or even attending classes here. I don’t know what school they attend and how they figured that out or how they afford to do it but I asure you they are here. We played with a few of them this weekend. The other ones travel to Florida for tournaments all the time in the winter. School calendar doesn’t seem to matter. There also from all over the world and l am always surprised at how many of them live here in the winter full time.



    I am certain that Arizona and California also see this as well. Not so much in Texas because well it can get below freezing in the winter in the larger cities.



    The kids are also all ages from young to older juniors. It also is just not just kids that golf either. A lot people travel south in the winter with there kids.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Mar 3, 2019 7:39pm #59
    Home schooling or doing online classes to chase a dream under a certain age is laughable at best. I mean - which model are these parents following? Which pros took that route?



    The reality is you need to be a good athlete as a base and extremely driven and strong mentally.



    As you accurately state with TX weather and the rain and heat of Florida summers, it’s less about being in a warm weather state. Arizona - border line child abuse to have a child practice in the summer outside of maybe the wee hour window. There’s a reason why Koreans dominate the LPGA when most of them never step foot on a golf course until they’re older (certainly not as frequent as us in the states) and hit all day on ranges netted 100 yards or so out. They perfect a consistent swing and learn how to manage their game much later. They are extremely mentally disciplined.



    It’s almost certain in the male game, much more so than the female game, that you need to be an athlete to succeed. You can’t just be robotic and expect to go very far. So for you to home school your kids on bettting that you’ll hit the lottery is highly questionable.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,063 ✭✭




    What do you mean? They leave school and live down south for the winter? Not true - that I know for a fact.



    Playing or traveling during winter breaks - yes. Playing in tournaments year round - yes, but definitely not the case at younger ages.




    You don’t know that for a fact. I know several kids that are from up north, the kids are home schooled, and they live in Florida during the winter. Same exact thing goes for several international kids.
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 298 ✭✭
    edited Mar 3, 2019 11:36pm #61





    What do you mean? They leave school and live down south for the winter? Not true - that I know for a fact.



    Playing or traveling during winter breaks - yes. Playing in tournaments year round - yes, but definitely not the case at younger ages.




    You don’t know that for a fact. I know several kids that are from up north, the kids are home schooled, and they live in Florida during the winter. Same exact thing goes for several international kids.




    Of the D1 players I mentioned, I know that for a fact. I never said or mentioned there weren’t players from the north/international players being home schooled or living down south for the winter.
Sign In or Register to comment.