GC asks "Is Jordan Spieth done?"

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  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    gvogel wrote:


    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.




    Holing out is a problem, its clear for all to see, if it is the yips then thats very worrying but its not necessarily terminal.



    I see the Haney quotes were reported on ESPN where was the "unidentified" tour player reported?
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  • c7015c7015 Members Posts: 2,108 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    *****ly!



    LOL, you really can't type that word! So funny.



    And who you calling a porcupine? ;-)




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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,386 ✭✭
    gvogel wrote:


    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.



    If that is the case, I think that you can make an argument that Jordan is done. For some reason I don't see him going to the broomstick or the claw.



    If you look at most of the players who have won multiple majors, they tend to do it over 4 or 5 years. Seve, basically from 1979 to 1984, with one more in 1988. Tom Watson basically from '77 to '83.



    Rory is probably done, since he did it from 2011 to 2014, and nothing since. Arnold Palmer, 1958 - 1964.



    Only Jack and Tiger have been able to stay dominant for longer periods of time.



    As another poster said, this is a very important year for Jordan Spieth.






    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/hank-haney-jordan-spieths-putting-he-visibly-has-yips



    "He's got to get his putting figured out," Haney said. "I think he will. But he has to. And I think that spilled into the rest of his game. When I watch him putt, he visibly has the yips. You watch his hands on short putts and there is a tremor in there. I don't care if the putt goes in or doesn't. He was center cut on his first putt at the Ryder Cup. But his hands were shaking. He had to miss more short putts than anybody on Tour."
  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,324 ✭✭
    edited Jan 10, 2019 2:17pm #155

    gvogel wrote:


    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.




    Holing out is a problem, its clear for all to see, if it is the yips then thats very worrying but its not necessarily terminal.



    I see the Haney quotes were reported on ESPN where was the "unidentified" tour player reported?




    Also in the ESPN article. A "prominent player who asked not to be named..."
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  • Viktoryred3Viktoryred3 Just playing the game... Members Posts: 174 ✭✭
    gvogel wrote:
    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.



    If that is the case, I think that you can make an argument that Jordan is done. For some reason I don't see him going to the broomstick or the claw.



    If you look at most of the players who have won multiple majors, they tend to do it over 4 or 5 years. Seve, basically from 1979 to 1984, with one more in 1988. Tom Watson basically from '77 to '83.



    Rory is probably done, since he did it from 2011 to 2014, and nothing since. Arnold Palmer, 1958 - 1964.



    Only Jack and Tiger have been able to stay dominant for longer periods of time.



    As another poster said, this is a very important year for Jordan Spieth.


    Couldn’t have said that any better myself
  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    gvogel wrote:


    gvogel wrote:


    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.




    Holing out is a problem, its clear for all to see, if it is the yips then thats very worrying but its not necessarily terminal.



    I see the Haney quotes were reported on ESPN where was the "unidentified" tour player reported?




    Also in the ESPN article. A "prominent player who asked not to be named..."




    Patrick Reed!
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  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,324 ✭✭

    gvogel wrote:


    gvogel wrote:


    Hank Haney has said that Jordan has the yips. An "unidentified" tour player said the same thing.




    Holing out is a problem, its clear for all to see, if it is the yips then thats very worrying but its not necessarily terminal.



    I see the Haney quotes were reported on ESPN where was the "unidentified" tour player reported?




    Also in the ESPN article. A "prominent player who asked not to be named..."




    Patrick Reed!




    That's actually darn funny. A lol moment.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,837 ✭✭
    I probably agree that it’s a yip.



    But the claw isn’t a magic yip cure. Just ask calc. He said he has 5 different claw versions he swaps back and forth to on Feherty.



    Having this same issue myself , I can say with confidence that the claw doesn’t work for all.



    It’s all mental. And can be overcome.
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  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    ^^ Agreed its a myth that the yips is always terminal. If it is the case though it's rare to see it in such a young golfer.



    I'm currently watching a re-run of the coverage but I checked golfchannel.com for the Spieth interview 'I'm over the ball and I'm uncomfortable' - not exactly encouraging. The scrutiny on him will only intensify in the lead up to Augusta given his record there.



    I hope it comes good for him but 2015 will always loom large over him. To some extent he's a victim of his own success in terms of the expectation and scrutiny.
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  • GolfChannelGolfChannel Orlando, FloridaMembers Posts: 1,721 ✭✭
    I literally have no idea what the "yips" are and I guess I'm glad I don't. I am assuming this is the putting equivalent to the shanks.
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  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,268 ✭✭
    Time to call The Fax.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,837 ✭✭


    I literally have no idea what the "yips" are and I guess I'm glad I don't. I am assuming this is the putting equivalent to the shanks.






    its an involuntary movement or flinch in the hands either at address, during the backswing or just before impact .



    more common with putter..But driver maybe runs second ... or shortgame shots around the green . In my opinion ( opinion) its tied to our "fight or flight" reflex... and maybe is the body wanting to run away . or maybe its fight and a misfire of sorts. basically leads to either a off path going back or an open face at impact or both .. sometimes maybe a flip to save it and a shut face after the yip. lots of bad things.. you know it as soon as it happens..and panic is the usual and really only respnse.. followed by anger because it happend...again ...



    shanks are just a path or release issue that are pretty easily cured.. Yips are in the mind... and have to be addressed head on .. by focusing on a single trigger point , ...for me its thinking right hand tight on my putting grip to activate my right hand to release..Im mostly left handed so my right hand isnt the one that yips and causes issues like some..its my left.. it prevents the clubhead from releasing... ive experienced it in driver but mostly putter.
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  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,324 ✭✭



    I literally have no idea what the "yips" are and I guess I'm glad I don't. I am assuming this is the putting equivalent to the shanks.






    its an involuntary movement or flinch in the hands either at address, during the backswing or just before impact .



    more common with putter..But driver maybe runs second ... or shortgame shots around the green . In my opinion ( opinion) its tied to our "fight or flight" reflex... and maybe is the body wanting to run away . or maybe its fight and a misfire of sorts. basically leads to either a off path going back or an open face at impact or both .. sometimes maybe a flip to save it and a shut face after the yip. lots of bad things.. you know it as soon as it happens..and panic is the usual and really only respnse.. followed by anger because it happend...again ...



    shanks are just a path or release issue that are pretty easily cured.. Yips are in the mind... and have to be addressed head on .. by focusing on a single trigger point , ...for me its thinking right hand tight on my putting grip to activate my right hand to release..Im mostly left handed so my right hand isnt the one that yips and causes issues like some..its my left.. it prevents the clubhead from releasing... ive experienced it in driver but mostly putter.




    I had (still have?) them, and I had them when I played squash. I would go to hit a soft forehand drop shot, and my hand would flinch, and I would end up hitting the most pathetic soft lob right down the middle of the court for an easy put away by my opponent. It never happened on a back hand drop shot, by the way.



    They went away in golf when I started putting using a pencil grip with a belly putter.



    I liken them to a stutter, if you have heard someone who just can't get the word out.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,837 ✭✭
    edited Jan 11, 2019 9:21am #165
    Exactly ^. Worries me about him because he’s already left hand low. So hands already technically locked out.



    If I were him I’d study my stroke circa 2015. I believe he’s narrower stance and slower tempo now. His tempo was really fast going back early. Back stroke and forward stroke for him used to be almost 1 to 1. Which is unheard of. And I bet that rythm would help or eliminate the flinch.



    This kids tough as woodpecker lips though. He will find a way. Just watch.
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  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky Members Posts: 1,139 ✭✭
    Saw he said yesterday he’s not comfortable over the ball. That doesn’t bode well
  • sdandreasdandrea Steve Members Posts: 2,349 ✭✭
    He's simply too young to be done. It might be years between majors, but he's too talented to be discounted as "done".
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  • SheriffBoothSheriffBooth Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 4,439 mod


    Exactly ^. Worries me about him because he's already left hand low. So hands already technically locked out.



    If I were him I'd study my stroke circa 2015. I believe he's narrower stance and slower tempo now. His tempo was really fast going back early. Back stroke and forward stroke for him used to be almost 1 to 1. Which is unheard of. And I bet that rythm would help or eliminate the flinch.



    This kids tough as woodpecker lips though. He will find a way. Just watch.




    I agree that he's going to sort it out eventually, and as much as people like to hate on Haney and his willingness to sell just about any product, I kind of think a no-nonsense Texas guy like Haney might be the less technical recipe that Spieth needs to get back on track.



    To your points, I'm not sure 2015 is the answer - he was not particularly great on short putts even then, and if you'll recall he was doing the whole look-at-the-hole/don't-look-at-the-hole thing which was a major red flag. His absolutely incredible mid-range putting that year hid the problem. And on his left hand low stroke, if he's got a yip in his right hand, then being left hand low won't help. He's got to do something to get that right hand off the grip, if that's the problem that needs solving.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,837 ✭✭
    edited Jan 11, 2019 11:20am #169


    Overwhelm is a key word here. Every person has a different tolerance level before they feel/become overwhelmed. I’m worried that with almost every aspect of Jordan’s game (technically, mentally, physically) up in the air with huge amounts of uncertainty and levels of distrust, this could be cause for real concern for Jordan and his career.



    Usually every top tour player aims to improve their yearly results by focusing on slight but gradual improvements in one or many areas. Armed with the most in-depth performance analysis, usually the player with their coach and team create a yearly strategic plan to make those identified improvements. But normally this is building on the strong game foundations already developed and trusted since they were young. If Spieth’s looking to drastically change his whole swing philosophy while mentally being vulnerable and now showing physical signs of the yips… this is a recipe for possible disaster. Not saying it will be, but with the evidence of this downward spiral lasting for well over a year, and with no evidence of real improvement insight, this rings some alarm bells for me. Don’t forget, Spieth’s constant muttering, whining and blaming his caddie for almost an entire year when results weren’t going his way, these are clear signs of distress and overwhelm. 2019 could in more ways than one be absolutely pivotal to his entire career going forward.




    Lol. If muttering to yourself is a sure sigh of being overwhelmed , I need you to sign my disability application. Lol



    I agree with some of your stance. But self talk can be outward and isn't really a sign of anything except a constant stream of consciousness. Sometimes that conversation is the most productive all day.
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  • SlackattackSlackattack Members Posts: 350 ✭✭
    I keep coming back to the fact that he had what was supposed to have been a terrible year last year, but had a very realistic chance to win both the Masters and the Open. Kid has a ton of “heart” and that’s why I don’t see him backing down. He will get it figured out I have to believe.
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  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,292 ✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:


    GC asks,



    Oh, man, nobody watching. What can we say to get some views?



    ; )




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  • North TexasNorth Texas Members Posts: 4,113 ✭✭
    If you listen to Hank Haney on his radio program and take him seriously, then I don't know what to say. He's pretty much nothing more than an attention ****.
  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,324 ✭✭



    Exactly ^. Worries me about him because he's already left hand low. So hands already technically locked out.



    If I were him I'd study my stroke circa 2015. I believe he's narrower stance and slower tempo now. His tempo was really fast going back early. Back stroke and forward stroke for him used to be almost 1 to 1. Which is unheard of. And I bet that rythm would help or eliminate the flinch.



    This kids tough as woodpecker lips though. He will find a way. Just watch.




    I agree that he's going to sort it out eventually, and as much as people like to hate on Haney and his willingness to sell just about any product, I kind of think a no-nonsense Texas guy like Haney might be the less technical recipe that Spieth needs to get back on track.



    To your points, I'm not sure 2015 is the answer - he was not particularly great on short putts even then, and if you'll recall he was doing the whole look-at-the-hole/don't-look-at-the-hole thing which was a major red flag. His absolutely incredible mid-range putting that year hid the problem. And on his left hand low stroke, if he's got a yip in his right hand, then being left hand low won't help. He's got to do something to get that right hand off the grip, if that's the problem that needs solving.




    If he really does have the yips, he should try the method that Bernhard Langer used in winning the Masters - take the right hand and use it to grip the top of the putter against the left forearm.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,837 ✭✭




    Overwhelm is a key word here. Every person has a different tolerance level before they feel/become overwhelmed. I’m worried that with almost every aspect of Jordan’s game (technically, mentally, physically) up in the air with huge amounts of uncertainty and levels of distrust, this could be cause for real concern for Jordan and his career.



    Usually every top tour player aims to improve their yearly results by focusing on slight but gradual improvements in one or many areas. Armed with the most in-depth performance analysis, usually the player with their coach and team create a yearly strategic plan to make those identified improvements. But normally this is building on the strong game foundations already developed and trusted since they were young. If Spieth’s looking to drastically change his whole swing philosophy while mentally being vulnerable and now showing physical signs of the yips… this is a recipe for possible disaster. Not saying it will be, but with the evidence of this downward spiral lasting for well over a year, and with no evidence of real improvement insight, this rings some alarm bells for me. Don’t forget, Spieth’s constant muttering, whining and blaming his caddie for almost an entire year when results weren’t going his way, these are clear signs of distress and overwhelm. 2019 could in more ways than one be absolutely pivotal to his entire career going forward.




    Lol. If muttering to yourself is a sure sigh of being overwhelmed , I need you to sign my disability application. Lol



    I agree with some of your stance. But self talk can be outward and isn't really a sign of anything except a constant stream of consciousness. Sometimes that conversation is the most productive all day.




    Muttering to self on its own isn’t a sign of overwhelm but placed alongside all 3 behaviours (as I clearly stated) is strong evidence of Spieth being in a state of overwhelm. Jordan’s usual calm and thoughtful disposition, even with some self-muttering is in stark contrast to when he’s whining and blasting/blaming/embarrassing his caddie in front of the galleries/viewers. These embarrassing actions of his have even led to Spieth feeling the need to openly apologise for behaving this way to the viewers and his caddie promising to cut it out. Again, signs of someone bordering on overwhelm / being out of control mentally/emotionally.




    Fair enough. All combined I’d probably agree. But I also don’t think “ overwhelmed “ is a permenant or even long term condition.



    I say that as a guy who could curl your hair with my life experiences. I’ve been overwhelmed. But you can eat that elephant one bite at a time if you have the brain power to decide to. I’m betting he does too. And I’m not saying , thatyou’re saying, that he doesn’t. Lol. That’s me mostly agreeing with you. ( maybe all ).
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  • ebrasmus21ebrasmus21 Serial Shanker CAMembers Posts: 5,328 ✭✭





    Overwhelm is a key word here. Every person has a different tolerance level before they feel/become overwhelmed. I'm worried that with almost every aspect of Jordan's game (technically, mentally, physically) up in the air with huge amounts of uncertainty and levels of distrust, this could be cause for real concern for Jordan and his career.



    Usually every top tour player aims to improve their yearly results by focusing on slight but gradual improvements in one or many areas. Armed with the most in-depth performance analysis, usually the player with their coach and team create a yearly strategic plan to make those identified improvements. But normally this is building on the strong game foundations already developed and trusted since they were young. If Spieth's looking to drastically change his whole swing philosophy while mentally being vulnerable and now showing physical signs of the yips… this is a recipe for possible disaster. Not saying it will be, but with the evidence of this downward spiral lasting for well over a year, and with no evidence of real improvement insight, this rings some alarm bells for me. Don't forget, Spieth's constant muttering, whining and blaming his caddie for almost an entire year when results weren't going his way, these are clear signs of distress and overwhelm. 2019 could in more ways than one be absolutely pivotal to his entire career going forward.




    Lol. If muttering to yourself is a sure sigh of being overwhelmed , I need you to sign my disability application. Lol



    I agree with some of your stance. But self talk can be outward and isn't really a sign of anything except a constant stream of consciousness. Sometimes that conversation is the most productive all day.




    Muttering to self on its own isn't a sign of overwhelm but placed alongside all 3 behaviours (as I clearly stated) is strong evidence of Spieth being in a state of overwhelm. Jordan's usual calm and thoughtful disposition, even with some self-muttering is in stark contrast to when he's whining and blasting/blaming/embarrassing his caddie in front of the galleries/viewers. These embarrassing actions of his have even led to Spieth feeling the need to openly apologise for behaving this way to the viewers and his caddie promising to cut it out. Again, signs of someone bordering on overwhelm / being out of control mentally/emotionally.




    Fair enough. All combined I'd probably agree. But I also don't think " overwhelmed " is a permenant or even long term condition.



    I say that as a guy who could curl your hair with my life experiences. I've been overwhelmed. But you can eat that elephant one bite at a time if you have the brain power to decide to. I'm betting he does too. And I'm not saying , thatyou're saying, that he doesn't. Lol. That's me mostly agreeing with you. ( maybe all ).




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  • Jackhammer993Jackhammer993 Members Posts: 855 ✭✭
    Rory Jr. Less of everything but basically the same scenario
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,140 ✭✭
    GoGoErky wrote:


    Saw he said yesterday he's not comfortable over the ball. That doesn't bode well




    Hes said this every year hes been on tour.hes tough on himself
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,140 ✭✭
    [quote/]



    An alliance was formed today between CR and BH.





    Beautiful.

    [/quote]



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  • A.PrinceyA.Princey Major Hacker Members Posts: 2,152 ✭✭
    Trouble, trouble, right here in River City! It starts with 'i' and rhymes with 'y' and that stands for YIPS!. Seriously, the 'i' in this whole argument is ignorance, something's definitely wrong and that comment about not being comfortable over the ball is straight from the horses mouth, people.
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