Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Philly Area Memberships

Bre9327Bre9327 hd1234Members Posts: 42
I'm looking to join somewhere this spring (preferably around march-april) and looking for a place to join. I'm moving to somewhere in the lansdowne area maybe so anything around there would be great.



Looking for places with low initiation. I'm 25 so I could possibly get a good deal.



I'm looking at white manor or rolling green but don't any of their dues/initiation and I don't want to come in to discuss

these things just because they might be outside of my budget.



Anyone know what other places have good deals for a young professional?



If you had details on pricing to these places PM me.



Thanks
«1

Comments

  • Bonneville85308Bonneville85308 Members Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 6, 2019 8:46pm #2
    I don't know current pricing specifics, but Springhaven is perhaps another to consider, I would have to think the initiation would be lower than Rolling Green or White Manor. Llanerch is also nearby. That all being said, my personal opinion is that Rolling Green is the best golf course of that four. Probably the most challenging.
  •  bnr204 bnr204 Members Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭
    Philmont is worth looking into as well
  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bnr204 wrote:


    Philmont is worth looking into as well
    Philmont is great but quite a commute from where he will be living. Plenty of options in that area.
  • EvolvedEvolved Members Posts: 753 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would assume you can still get a good deal at White Manor as the new owners need to make that course "work" quickly or it's getting bulldozed.
  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Bre -- If you'd like more info on Rolling Green, feel free to shoot me a PM.
  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Evolved wrote:


    I would assume you can still get a good deal at White Manor as the new owners need to make that course "work" quickly or it's getting bulldozed.




    White Manor is a very nice course, but it's not close enough to the Lansdowne area to make sense to most.
  • DrudershDrudersh ClubWRX Posts: 2,964 ClubWRX
    Evolved wrote:


    I would assume you can still get a good deal at White Manor as the new owners need to make that course "work" quickly or it's getting bulldozed.




    I thought the language of the sale included that the course would remain operational and not allow for an option to develop the property for at least 5 years?
    Ping G 10.5 Tour 65s
    Ping G 14.5 Tour 80x
    Titleist 716 T-MB 3 Iron AD DI 95x
    Ping Anser Forged Project X 6.0
    Ping Glide 50*SS, 54*SS, 58*SS Project X 6.0
    Odyssey Versa 2-Ball
  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Drudersh wrote:

    Evolved wrote:


    I would assume you can still get a good deal at White Manor as the new owners need to make that course "work" quickly or it's getting bulldozed.




    I thought the language of the sale included that the course would remain operational and not allow for an option to develop the property for at least 5 years?




    I think you're right about that.
  • Bureman96Bureman96 Members Posts: 3
    Correct about white manor, at least 5 more years before they can sell. Beautiful course and great members. Joined a few months ago. Dunnigan is a great teacher there.
  •  bnr204 bnr204 Members Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭
    white manor & philmont are both owned by concert golf. word is @ philmont, they are going to develop at least 9 of the south courses 18 holes for housing. that's what they are trying to do at least. they also re-did 18 on north. question is, like in all these cases where these entities buy out the members & then recapitalize, will they get the zoning permits and how long will it take.
  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bnr204 wrote:


    white manor & philmont are both owned by concert golf. word is @ philmont, they are going to develop at least 9 of the south courses 18 holes for housing. that's what they are trying to do at least. they also re-did 18 on north. question is, like in all these cases where these entities buy out the members & then recapitalize, will they get the zoning permits and how long will it take.
    Still hoping ClubCorp gets back in the picture with those two courses.
  • mmckee02mmckee02 Members Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭
    What town are you going to be living in?
  • VGVGVGVG Bryn Mawr, PAMembers Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    I wouldn’t join White Manor right now, given the uncertainty. I heard that some of the members are not happy with the new owners. When I was looking for a club a few years ago, I concluded that Rolling Greens and Llanerch are much better options.

  • dankil13dankil13 Members Posts: 30 ✭✭

    @VGVG said:
    I wouldn’t join White Manor right now, given the uncertainty. I heard that some of the members are not happy with the new owners. When I was looking for a club a few years ago, I concluded that Rolling Greens and Llanerch are much better options.

    I'd venture to guess the folks at White Manor are way happier than the members at Philmont.

  • VGVGVGVG Bryn Mawr, PAMembers Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    @dankil13 said:

    @VGVG said:
    I wouldn’t join White Manor right now, given the uncertainty. I heard that some of the members are not happy with the new owners. When I was looking for a club a few years ago, I concluded that Rolling Greens and Llanerch are much better options.

    I'd venture to guess the folks at White Manor are way happier than the members at Philmont.

    I don’t know anything about Philmont. What is going on there?

  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dankil13 said:

    @VGVG said:
    I wouldn’t join White Manor right now, given the uncertainty. I heard that some of the members are not happy with the new owners. When I was looking for a club a few years ago, I concluded that Rolling Greens and Llanerch are much better options.

    I'd venture to guess the folks at White Manor are way happier than the members at Philmont.

    From what I have heard there are only a handful of members left from the pre-Concert Golf days. I'm sure they are the most upset.

  • VGVGVGVG Bryn Mawr, PAMembers Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    Sucks for them! I just heard that the teaching pro at White Manor, John Dunigan, is leaving for Applebrook. It’s a big loss as he is consistently ranked one of the best instructors in PA and USA.

  • dankil13dankil13 Members Posts: 30 ✭✭

    @VGVG said:

    @dankil13 said:

    @VGVG said:
    I wouldn’t join White Manor right now, given the uncertainty. I heard that some of the members are not happy with the new owners. When I was looking for a club a few years ago, I concluded that Rolling Greens and Llanerch are much better options.

    I'd venture to guess the folks at White Manor are way happier than the members at Philmont.

    I don’t know anything about Philmont. What is going on there?

    They lost all of the greens. The super "resigned" The head greenskeeper from White Manor is overseeing the Fall overseeding and recovery. Yet Concert won't shut the course down, is still hosting outings, and hasn't really provided us with an option to play elsewhere other than White Manor, which is 45 mins away (and generally only available mid-afternoon when we request a tee time).

    Here are a few photos of the place from yesterday,


  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Holy cow! That's terrible. Such a great track too. Time for Club Corp to swoop in and buy it!

  • dankil13dankil13 Members Posts: 30 ✭✭

    @Noles said:
    Holy cow! That's terrible. Such a great track too. Time for Club Corp to swoop in and buy it!

    Club Corp backed out of purchasing 16 courses from Concert last summer (including Philmont). Its highly unlikely they would consider buying today, esp with litigation tying up the sale and development of the South course.

    I emailed the GM Saturday afternoon after my round venting my frustration and haven't received a reply. I also started making calls to all of the membership directors for the clubs in the area. I've prob played my last round at Philmont.

  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Whoa. That's... outrageous.

  • rahatbmcrahatbmc Members Posts: 75 ✭✭✭

    @dankil13 said:

    @Noles said:
    Holy cow! That's terrible. Such a great track too. Time for Club Corp to swoop in and buy it!

    Club Corp backed out of purchasing 16 courses from Concert last summer (including Philmont). Its highly unlikely they would consider buying today, esp with litigation tying up the sale and development of the South course.

    I emailed the GM Saturday afternoon after my round venting my frustration and haven't received a reply. I also started making calls to all of the membership directors for the clubs in the area. I've prob played my last round at Philmont.

    FYI
    From Robert J. Vasilak's blog: http://worldgolfreport.blogspot.com/

    Concert Golf Partners is once again flush with cash.
    The Newport Beach, California-based owner/operator has secured a $100 million financial commitment that secures its place at the top of the club-acquisition food chain. Peter Nanula, Concert’s chairman, figures that the money will enable his firm to add eight to 10 private clubs to its portfolio and make capital improvements to both new and existing properties. “For a lot of clubs, it all comes down to capital,” Nanula notes. “Because we have capital, we can solve problems and take on risks that clubs can’t.” The new funding ensures that Concert, which owns 20 clubs, will be able to compete for properties with ClubCorp, its much larger and most significant rival. Both companies are among a very small group of owner/operators that have money for acquisitions, and both are on the prowl for the same type of property: Mid- to upper-tier “lifestyle” clubs in metropolitan areas that have lost members or become burdened with debt and now find themselves in need of money that will allow them to make the facility improvements they need to remain competitive in their markets. Generally speaking, Concert and ClubCorp target member-owned clubs that generate revenues of $5 million to $10 million annually. Although the companies are always seeking to increase their holdings, 2019 has been a quiet year for them. Concert has acquired just one property, Plantation Golf & Country Club in Venice, Florida, while ClubCorp, as best I can determine, hasn’t made a purchase since late 2018, when it bought Ridge Club, a venue in Sandwich, Massachusetts that’s changed hands at least five times since 2003. In fact, the companies’ portfolios are so similar that ClubCorp tried to buy 16 of Concert’s clubs in the spring of 2018. The prospective sale collapsed in the late stages of the negotiations, due to what Nanula described at the time as disagreements related to price, terms, and “softer issues” concerning “commitments we have made to our members.”

  • dankil13dankil13 Members Posts: 30 ✭✭

    FYI
    From Robert J. Vasilak's blog: http://worldgolfreport.blogspot.com/

    Concert Golf Partners is once again flush with cash.
    The Newport Beach, California-based owner/operator has secured a $100 million financial commitment that secures its place at the top of the club-acquisition food chain. Peter Nanula, Concert’s chairman, figures that the money will enable his firm to add eight to 10 private clubs to its portfolio and make capital improvements to both new and existing properties. “For a lot of clubs, it all comes down to capital,” Nanula notes. “Because we have capital, we can solve problems and take on risks that clubs can’t.” The new funding ensures that Concert, which owns 20 clubs, will be able to compete for properties with ClubCorp, its much larger and most significant rival. Both companies are among a very small group of owner/operators that have money for acquisitions, and both are on the prowl for the same type of property: Mid- to upper-tier “lifestyle” clubs in metropolitan areas that have lost members or become burdened with debt and now find themselves in need of money that will allow them to make the facility improvements they need to remain competitive in their markets. Generally speaking, Concert and ClubCorp target member-owned clubs that generate revenues of $5 million to $10 million annually. Although the companies are always seeking to increase their holdings, 2019 has been a quiet year for them. Concert has acquired just one property, Plantation Golf & Country Club in Venice, Florida, while ClubCorp, as best I can determine, hasn’t made a purchase since late 2018, when it bought Ridge Club, a venue in Sandwich, Massachusetts that’s changed hands at least five times since 2003. In fact, the companies’ portfolios are so similar that ClubCorp tried to buy 16 of Concert’s clubs in the spring of 2018. The prospective sale collapsed in the late stages of the negotiations, due to what Nanula described at the time as disagreements related to price, terms, and “softer issues” concerning “commitments we have made to our members.”

    This quote is laughable
    “We’re going to keep doing what we’ve been doing,” he says. “All 20 of our clubs are successful and thriving, and each one has exceeded the business plan we set for them. We have a model that works.” Philmont has been anything but successful. They were way overbudget on the reno of the clubhouse and thus let go of the tenured staff to cut costs. Maybe if/when they can develop the South course it would work for them. The only memberships they can sell are heavily discounted Jr memberships for $275-$325/month.

  • kickinbirdkickinbird Members Posts: 25 ✭✭

    leave now, that is a sinking ship.

  • steve8xsteve8x Members Posts: 3

    I understand Commonwealth is in good shape, condition and membership wise.

  • rahatbmcrahatbmc Members Posts: 75 ✭✭✭

    @steve8x said:
    I understand Commonwealth is in good shape, condition and membership wise.

    Correct, course is in great condition and membership is strong.

  • EvolvedEvolved Members Posts: 753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dunning is now at Applebrook
    Philmont is intentionally letting the course go
    White Manor intentionally over sells memberships as they are trying to generate as much cash as possible in a short time. New members can't even get a decent tee time on the weekends at White Manor. Still love the course though.

  • NolesNoles Members Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Evolved said:
    Dunning is now at Applebrook
    Philmont is intentionally letting the course go
    White Manor intentionally over sells memberships as they are trying to generate as much cash as possible in a short time. New members can't even get a decent tee time on the weekends at White Manor. Still love the course though.

    To what end are they intentionally letting the course go?

  •  bnr204 bnr204 Members Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭

    same to hear what's happened at philmont. i played there in september 2017 (what's that maybe 2 years into concert's takeover?) and was very satisfied with the quality and condition of the golf course. how did the super lose the greens? cut them too tight for the NE heat/humidity/rain?

  • dankil13dankil13 Members Posts: 30 ✭✭

    @ bnr204 said:
    same to hear what's happened at philmont. i played there in september 2017 (what's that maybe 2 years into concert's takeover?) and was very satisfied with the quality and condition of the golf course. how did the super lose the greens? cut them too tight for the NE heat/humidity/rain?

    Greens are 70/30 Poa/Bent mix. Whatever chemicals were put down to prevent fungus right before the high heat/heavy rain was either a bad batch or the wrong chemical to put down. They also claim they skipped aeration in the spring (but I remember aerification taking place the Monday after the first GAP match). A lot of this is a direct result of Concert's managment. The South was closed this year and we were told that the $400k budget for the South Course would be used on the North course, since we had some issues with our greens last year. That didn't happen. We never see any grounds staff working on the course during the week/weekend, other than occasionally 1 person cutting the rough/fairways. I played two early rounds on weekends where the bunkers were not even prepped and had to play a ball out of a footprint (it looked like some kids had a dance party in it the night before). So either headcount was reduced on the grounds crew or they aren't doing a good job at replacing staff that left.

    An update email went out last night. 9 greens are now closed - with 5 temporaries and using the 4 holes they have kept open on the South for practice. Members are getting a portion of the dues as pro shop credit. We can play a few local courses at reduced greens fees (out of our pockets). And the 6x monthly restriction on times at White Manor has been lifted (I'm sure the WM members will be thrilled). Absolutely ridiculous.

    I'm looking forward to checking out Commonwealth this weekend.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file