You've seen it, I've seen it: dropping at "knee height." WHY??

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  • BenSeattleBenSeattle Members Posts: 538 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Just make them carry a little two foot high, official dropping stick and be done with it. New merchandising opportunity.




    Don't laugh. Years ago, when I was a kid, the USGA established a "60-foot" radius around the hole. Outside of that, whether on the green or off, you could leave the flagstick in. Within 60 feet (on the green or off) and you had to have the stick tended. And -- guess what, you marketing mavens -- some people actually carried tape measures. The USGA..... dumb then, stupid now.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,697 ClubWRX
    LOL, I just said Bryson looked like a drama queen, apparently he didn't do any practice with the new rule. Not that hard to drop knee high.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,387 ✭✭
    BenSeattle wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Just make them carry a little two foot high, official dropping stick and be done with it. New merchandising opportunity.




    Don't laugh. Years ago, when I was a kid, the USGA established a "60-foot" radius around the hole. Outside of that, whether on the green or off, you could leave the flagstick in. Within 60 feet (on the green or off) and you had to have the stick tended. And -- guess what, you marketing mavens -- some people actually carried tape measures. The USGA..... dumb then, stupid now.
    Uuggghhh really? You need to prove that one. May have been a local Muni rule.
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  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,087 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:

    BenSeattle wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Just make them carry a little two foot high, official dropping stick and be done with it. New merchandising opportunity.




    Don't laugh. Years ago, when I was a kid, the USGA established a "60-foot" radius around the hole. Outside of that, whether on the green or off, you could leave the flagstick in. Within 60 feet (on the green or off) and you had to have the stick tended. And -- guess what, you marketing mavens -- some people actually carried tape measures. The USGA..... dumb then, stupid now.
    Uuggghhh really? You need to prove that one. May have been a local Muni rule.


    I don't have the site handy, i think it's www.ruleshistory.com. At one time, in stroke play, there was a penalty for hitting the flag with a shot from outside 20 yards.
  • justasgoodjustasgood Without Tempo, you are just a hacker. Members Posts: 2,601 ✭✭
    edited Jan 6, 2019 8:40pm #36
    BenSeattle wrote:

    [background=transparent]Dude. Take a knee. Your floor to knee is the same kneeling on one knee as it is standing up. No bending over at all.[/background]



    [background=transparent]I love this! Can see it now: player lunges forward to "take a knee" from which to drop and immediately someone cries out "Kaepernick!" And the right-wing goes wild. Limbaugh on a rampage, Hannity with "an extra special, really important, potentially end-of-the-world Opening Monologue."[/background]



    Not sure if this was directed at my post but I’ll respectfully disagree. The angle of your lower leg changes and can bring your “ knee height” cliser to the ground.
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,593 ✭✭
    justasgood wrote:

    BenSeattle wrote:


    [background=transparent]Dude. Take a knee. Your floor to knee is the same kneeling on one knee as it is standing up. No bending over at all.[/background]



    [background=transparent]I love this! Can see it now: player lunges forward to "take a knee" from which to drop and immediately someone cries out "Kaepernick!" And the right-wing goes wild. Limbaugh on a rampage, Hannity with "an extra special, really important, potentially end-of-the-world Opening Monologue."[/background]


    Not sure if this was directed at my post but I'll respectfully disagree. The angle of your lower leg changes and can bring your " knee height" cliser to the ground.




    Dude, try reading the rule. Or just this thread.



    You can stand on your head but that doesn't mean you're dropping from "way up there".



    You drop from "knee height" from WHEN YOU"RE STANDING STRAIGHT UP,,,,,,,,,,,,,no matter WHAT position you're in when you drop.



    Sheesh.

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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers Posts: 5,593 ✭✭
    This is a riot.



    So much hand wringing and wailing,,,,,,,,,, I got a wall in Jerusalem you guys might like to visit.



    Drop from knee height ? O,,,,,M,,,,,G,,,,,, don't you know most golfers have back issues ??? image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> You swing a club at 80+ MPH 3 DOZEN times or more and you're worried about bending over at the waist once every 3 rounds or so to drop a ball ? Well, Boo,,,,,,,, Hoo,,,,,,, MY back hurts TOO. image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    Takes 11 seconds to drop, have ball roll > 2 club lengths, retrieve it, rinse and repeat and and finally place ? image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Exaggerate much ? Try timing it a few times.



    The vast majority of free relief situations occur OFF the fairway but I don't care ! I want to PLACE the ball so I'm not punished. Waaaaaaa,,,,,,,,, YOU hit it there, you GET relief, you don't DESERVE such a benefit !!! image/ninja.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ninja:' />



    The most moaning on this site is over pace of play but change some rules to accommodate you and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Waaaaaa,,,,,, image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    The next most moaning on this site is about how complicated the Rules are. So they reduce the number Rules by about a 3rd, make them much easier to understand and make them to obviously speed up play and ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Waaaaaaaaa,,,,,,,, you're making the game too easy leaving the flagstick in. Proof ? I don't need no stinking proof, I KNOW it's easier,,,,,,,,,



    Not to mention the beginners just learning to play the game now have it much easier learning the reules than we did RE-learning them but,,,,,,, "we" don't care about "them", do we ? image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    To paraphrase an old joke, What's a golfer's favorite wine,,,,,,,, Waaaaaa,,,,,, I like the old rules better !!! image/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />



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  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,387 ✭✭
    davep043 wrote:

    Shilgy wrote:

    BenSeattle wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Just make them carry a little two foot high, official dropping stick and be done with it. New merchandising opportunity.




    Don't laugh. Years ago, when I was a kid, the USGA established a "60-foot" radius around the hole. Outside of that, whether on the green or off, you could leave the flagstick in. Within 60 feet (on the green or off) and you had to have the stick tended. And -- guess what, you marketing mavens -- some people actually carried tape measures. The USGA..... dumb then, stupid now.
    Uuggghhh really? You need to prove that one. May have been a local Muni rule.


    I don't have the site handy, i think it's www.ruleshistory.com. At one time, in stroke play, there was a penalty for hitting the flag with a shot from outside 20 yards.
    So Byron Nelsongot penalized a lot for hitting the pin on approach shots?

    Found it.

    * First the USGA had nothing to do with it. It started in 1829 at St Andrews

    * it was essentially the way of marking the green as agronomy of the time was lacking

    *striking the pin from inside the 60 foot margin was a penalty- that penalty was relatively unchanged for a century other than ‘56-‘68 and of course this year. Inside the 60 feet the pin had to be removed or attended.

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  • Oliver KlozoffOliver Klozoff Members Posts: 210 ✭✭
    I think if you are paying a penalty for something (ball in hazard etc) you should be allowed to place it.



    For free relief like cart path you should drop it between knee and shoulder height.
  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members Posts: 996 ✭✭


    Read the **** rule. And it's ignorant Dave. It's literaly a huge waste of time , USga members money and insults most folks intelligence.



    Just because we've known about it doesn't mean it has to be liked. Time doesn't make a useless idea better.



    The idea is to have balls not roll away when dropped. This won't stop that. Slope is slope. The ball isn't rolling away becusee of the rebound of the higher drop. If anything it may plug it and keep it from rolling. The ball rolls away because of gravity. And sometimes placing it is the only way. Essentially cheating gravity by propping the ball up on a blade of grass etc. 7 years it took for them to make these changes ? To decide to make putts easier and to shorten a drop? To change the terminology of hazards to penalty areas and allow you to improve your shot at hitting the ball from the hazard. Come on. It's a lot of nothing useful. More PR move than anything.




    Well if it rolls away at least you're closer by to stop it. Not everyone has caddies ready to coddle their balls.
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  • iBanestoiBanesto Niclas Fasth Members Posts: 4,450 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 3:44am #42
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,087 ✭✭


    I think if you are paying a penalty for something (ball in hazard etc) you should be allowed to place it.



    For free relief like cart path you should drop it between knee and shoulder height.


    I'd suggest that your penalty stroke is intended to "pay" for moving the ball from someplace where its impossible to play it, to someplace where it IS possible to play it. You haven't paid for the additional advantage of having a perfect lie, that still deserves to be pretty random.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    nsxguy wrote:


    This is a riot.



    So much hand wringing and wailing,,,,,,,,,, I got a wall in Jerusalem you guys might like to visit.



    Drop from knee height ? O,,,,,M,,,,,G,,,,,, don't you know most golfers have back issues ??? image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> You swing a club at 80+ MPH 3 DOZEN times or more and you're worried about bending over at the waist once every 3 rounds or so to drop a ball ? Well, Boo,,,,,,,, Hoo,,,,,,, MY back hurts TOO. image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    Takes 11 seconds to drop, have ball roll > 2 club lengths, retrieve it, rinse and repeat and and finally place ? image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Exaggerate much ? Try timing it a few times.



    The vast majority of free relief situations occur OFF the fairway but I don't care ! I want to PLACE the ball so I'm not punished. Waaaaaaa,,,,,,,,, YOU hit it there, you GET relief, you don't DESERVE such a benefit !!! image/ninja.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ninja:' />



    The most moaning on this site is over pace of play but change some rules to accommodate you and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Waaaaaa,,,,,, image/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    The next most moaning on this site is about how complicated the Rules are. So they reduce the number Rules by about a 3rd, make them much easier to understand and make them to obviously speed up play and ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Waaaaaaaaa,,,,,,,, you're making the game too easy leaving the flagstick in. Proof ? I don't need no stinking proof, I KNOW it's easier,,,,,,,,,



    Not to mention the beginners just learning to play the game now have it much easier learning the reules than we did RE-learning them but,,,,,,, "we" don't care about "them", do we ? image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    To paraphrase an old joke, What's a golfer's favorite wine,,,,,,,, Waaaaaa,,,,,, I like the old rules better !!! image/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />



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    Nsx. You know I love you man. ( you too Dave).



    But you and Dave whining about me whining is same same right ? As long as we know that , I’m cool with it. I don’t believe in the word whining anyway.
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  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members Posts: 17,495 ✭✭
    Sometimes people make things harder than they need to be. You don;t have to be some contortionist or have the flexibility of a teenage olympic gymnast to drop at knee height:



    Hold your arm out at a little bit of an angle.

    Now lean forward just enough so that a dropped ball clears your foot by about 12"

    Done.



    No bending at the waist, no slumping, no stupid crouch. I wonder if Bryson is like this in his daily life, and how frustrating that must be, hanging around someone who overthinks everything.



    Some people claim that the rule didn't do anything or has no purpose, yet they want to drop from knee to shoulder height. So they never really read it, or it's purpose, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting that.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    Vindog wrote:


    Sometimes people make things harder than they need to be. You don;t have to be some contortionist or have the flexibility of a teenage olympic gymnast to drop at knee height:



    Hold your arm out at a little bit of an angle.

    Now lean forward just enough so that a dropped ball clears your foot by about 12"

    Done.



    No bending at the waist, no slumping, no stupid crouch. I wonder if Bryson is like this in his daily life, and how frustrating that must be, hanging around someone who overthinks everything.



    Some people claim that the rule didn't do anything or has no purpose, yet they want to drop from knee to shoulder height. So they never really read it, or it's purpose, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting that.




    As an over thinker myself who has trouble thinking I can tell you. It’s exhausting. Lol.
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  • ProphetLogicProphetLogic Members Posts: 524 ✭✭
    If bending to knee height to take a drop is a problem, how do you tee up a ball?
  • Tim SchochTim Schoch Swing like it already happened. ClubWRX Posts: 1,069 ClubWRX

    Vindog wrote:


    Sometimes people make things harder than they need to be. You don;t have to be some contortionist or have the flexibility of a teenage olympic gymnast to drop at knee height:



    Hold your arm out at a little bit of an angle.

    Now lean forward just enough so that a dropped ball clears your foot by about 12"

    Done.



    No bending at the waist, no slumping, no stupid crouch. I wonder if Bryson is like this in his daily life, and how frustrating that must be, hanging around someone who overthinks everything.



    Some people claim that the rule didn't do anything or has no purpose, yet they want to drop from knee to shoulder height. So they never really read it, or it's purpose, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting that.




    As an over thinker myself who has trouble thinking I can tell you. It's exhausting. Lol.




    Some people are thinkers, who consider more data than other people do before they reach a conclusion. Other people are not thinkers, and they over-think an issue above and beyond their ability to do so. The first thinker group look at ball-dropping from knee height from all angles and consider it absurd. Non-thinkers call their favorite satellite radio host for an opinion.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    Tim Schoch wrote:


    Vindog wrote:


    Sometimes people make things harder than they need to be. You don;t have to be some contortionist or have the flexibility of a teenage olympic gymnast to drop at knee height:



    Hold your arm out at a little bit of an angle.

    Now lean forward just enough so that a dropped ball clears your foot by about 12"

    Done.



    No bending at the waist, no slumping, no stupid crouch. I wonder if Bryson is like this in his daily life, and how frustrating that must be, hanging around someone who overthinks everything.



    Some people claim that the rule didn't do anything or has no purpose, yet they want to drop from knee to shoulder height. So they never really read it, or it's purpose, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting that.




    As an over thinker myself who has trouble thinking I can tell you. It's exhausting. Lol.




    Some people are thinkers, who consider more data than other people do before they reach a conclusion. Other people are not thinkers, and they over-think an issue above and beyond their ability to do so. The first thinker group look at ball-dropping from knee height from all angles and consider it absurd. Non-thinkers call their favorite satellite radio host for an opinion.




    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I’m clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don’t get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It’s such a rare occurrence that it’s not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?
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  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,087 ✭✭




    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    davep043 wrote:





    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It’s sure is. I think the term is “dumbing down”?



    Kind of hard to say you “ play it as you find it “ If you aren’t penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.
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  • larrybudlarrybud Members Posts: 11,230 ✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Just make them carry a little two foot high, official dropping stick and be done with it. New merchandising opportunity.




    Tour issue dropping stick, no doubt.



    Just make it "no lower than knee height". Don't know why that would be an issue.
  • larrybudlarrybud Members Posts: 11,230 ✭✭


    The idea is to have balls not roll away when dropped. This won't stop that. Slope is slope. The ball isn't rolling away becusee of the rebound of the higher drop. If anything it may plug it and keep it from rolling. The ball rolls away because of gravity. And sometimes placing it is the only way. Essentially cheating gravity by propping the ball up on a blade of grass etc. 7 years it took for them to make these changes ? To decide to make putts easier and to shorten a drop? To change the terminology of hazards to penalty areas and allow you to improve your shot at hitting the ball from the hazard. Come on. It's a lot of nothing useful. More PR move than anything.




    While I think the rule is a bit silly, dropping from a higher distance will certainly cause the ball to bounce farther away.
  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 3,872 ✭✭

    Tim Schoch wrote:


    Vindog wrote:


    Sometimes people make things harder than they need to be. You don;t have to be some contortionist or have the flexibility of a teenage olympic gymnast to drop at knee height:



    Hold your arm out at a little bit of an angle.

    Now lean forward just enough so that a dropped ball clears your foot by about 12"

    Done.



    No bending at the waist, no slumping, no stupid crouch. I wonder if Bryson is like this in his daily life, and how frustrating that must be, hanging around someone who overthinks everything.



    Some people claim that the rule didn't do anything or has no purpose, yet they want to drop from knee to shoulder height. So they never really read it, or it's purpose, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting that.




    As an over thinker myself who has trouble thinking I can tell you. It's exhausting. Lol.




    Some people are thinkers, who consider more data than other people do before they reach a conclusion. Other people are not thinkers, and they over-think an issue above and beyond their ability to do so. The first thinker group look at ball-dropping from knee height from all angles and consider it absurd. Non-thinkers call their favorite satellite radio host for an opinion.




    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?




    I can't take credit for the line, but these are the "everything is cool, we need more golfers" rules. Pace of play was the pabulum tossed out as justification, but it really was just finding a way to allow people to post lower scores without actually improving, thus keeping them in the game(so the theory goes.)



    I can see some of the logic of being able to fix something in your line(man made....if a crane tore up your line, you're SOL I guess..), and the local for 2 and a drop in OB is a decent option. But most of this was as you say, dumbing things down. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't make the hole bigger.
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,087 ✭✭

    davep043 wrote:



    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It's sure is. I think the term is "dumbing down"?



    Kind of hard to say you " play it as you find it " If you aren't penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.


    Perhaps you haven't read those rules. If you accidentally move it, you have to replace it. You ARE playing it as you found it, as near as possible. If you accidentally move it, and play it from its new location, you're penalized for playing from the wrong place.
  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 3,872 ✭✭
    davep043 wrote:


    davep043 wrote:



    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It's sure is. I think the term is "dumbing down"?



    Kind of hard to say you " play it as you find it " If you aren't penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.


    Perhaps you haven't read those rules. If you accidentally move it, you have to replace it. You ARE playing it as you found it, as near as possible. If you accidentally move it, and play it from its new location, you're penalized for playing from the wrong place.




    This is the problem. Accidental. So now it's about intent. If my ball is sitting in a tough lie, I can't do anything. but if I "accidentally" kick as I'm looking for it", I can now put my hands on it, and since I maintain it was accidental, I'm fine.



    I think this is going to be a real big case of you can't put the **** back in the horse, and it should never have been let out in the first place.
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,087 ✭✭
    Bluefan75 wrote:

    davep043 wrote:


    davep043 wrote:



    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It's sure is. I think the term is "dumbing down"?



    Kind of hard to say you " play it as you find it " If you aren't penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.


    Perhaps you haven't read those rules. If you accidentally move it, you have to replace it. You ARE playing it as you found it, as near as possible. If you accidentally move it, and play it from its new location, you're penalized for playing from the wrong place.




    This is the problem. Accidental. So now it's about intent. If my ball is sitting in a tough lie, I can't do anything. but if I "accidentally" kick as I'm looking for it", I can now put my hands on it, and since I maintain it was accidental, I'm fine.



    I think this is going to be a real big case of you can't put the **** back in the horse, and it should never have been let out in the first place.


    Its a bit late to complain about the rationale behind the changes, we all had our opportunity to provide feedback a year ago. I don't disagree with you, but I'll live with the rules as they are. If you play with gentlemen, you can trust them to do what's right by the rules. And if you regularly play with cheaters, you're probably already watching them like a hawk, no reason to change that practice at all.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    Bluefan75 wrote:

    davep043 wrote:


    davep043 wrote:



    Lol. Oh I know. Post above was in jest. I can think just fine. Too much usually. But I'm clear in my opinion that this was a solution in search of a problem. Same as the flag in . Other things like the no penalty double hit also I don't get. Just a free pass for the dishonest or lazy as far as I can see. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not an issue. And when it happens you know it. Easy to call on yourself. Or not. Why give the free pass ?


    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It's sure is. I think the term is "dumbing down"?



    Kind of hard to say you " play it as you find it " If you aren't penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.


    Perhaps you haven't read those rules. If you accidentally move it, you have to replace it. You ARE playing it as you found it, as near as possible. If you accidentally move it, and play it from its new location, you're penalized for playing from the wrong place.




    This is the problem. Accidental. So now it's about intent. If my ball is sitting in a tough lie, I can't do anything. but if I "accidentally" kick as I'm looking for it", I can now put my hands on it, and since I maintain it was accidental, I'm fine.



    I think this is going to be a real big case of you can't put the **** back in the horse, and it should never have been let out in the first place.




    Bingo. Even if minute. Kicking my ball from a cupped lie then replacing it “ as best as possible “ to a nearby spot not cupped is huge. Like 15 yards carry huge for a long iron. And it will happen even to the highest level of competition.



    It will never be play it as you found it or be penalized again.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,836 ✭✭
    Dave, . I wish there were enough gentlemen to go around. But there’s just not. I find them quite rare . Most are just wolves dressed in gentlemen’s clothing if you compete.



    I have no doubt you are of the rare breed. As am I , even though I may argue quite a bit here. I’ve called a penalty on myself twice in my 4 years of comp playing . Both times for making a ball move in the rough when addressing it. Nobody else could have known.



    But in all that competition and all my normal home course play I’ve never once had anyone else call anything on themselves. Only if we are on top of them and say something like “ did that move or just oscillate “? It’s a jungle out there.
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  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 3,872 ✭✭
    davep043 wrote:

    Bluefan75 wrote:

    davep043 wrote:


    davep043 wrote:




    Almost all accidental movement of the ball has had penalty strokes removed. Move it while searching, no penalty, put it back. Move it on the green, put it back. Ball hits your partner, no penalty. And ball hits you or your club, no penalty. Its strikingly consistent, isn't it?




    It's sure is. I think the term is "dumbing down"?



    Kind of hard to say you " play it as you find it " If you aren't penalizing yourself for changing where you found it.


    Perhaps you haven't read those rules. If you accidentally move it, you have to replace it. You ARE playing it as you found it, as near as possible. If you accidentally move it, and play it from its new location, you're penalized for playing from the wrong place.




    This is the problem. Accidental. So now it's about intent. If my ball is sitting in a tough lie, I can't do anything. but if I "accidentally" kick as I'm looking for it", I can now put my hands on it, and since I maintain it was accidental, I'm fine.



    I think this is going to be a real big case of you can't put the **** back in the horse, and it should never have been let out in the first place.


    Its a bit late to complain about the rationale behind the changes, we all had our opportunity to provide feedback a year ago. I don't disagree with you, but I'll live with the rules as they are. If you play with gentlemen, you can trust them to do what's right by the rules. And if you regularly play with cheaters, you're probably already watching them like a hawk, no reason to change that practice at all.




    Well, in theory there is difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi had it right. In the theoretical world this sounded great, but real life is different. I follow the rules as they are. But that doesn't mean I won't keep speaking my mind. After all, if the rules were changed because, reasons, it can be fixed, because, actual real reasons.



    Golf has always prided itself on the fact players call penalties on themselves. Except they have essentially removed a large portion of those situations, right when the era of football or hockey-types where "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying" is a perfectly acceptable M.O. have really seeped into other pursuits. I'd say they had their heads up their keisters, but more likely they were thinking about their wallets.
  • marlowe70marlowe70 righty playing lefty Members Posts: 248 ✭✭
    Common sense would dictate to stand up straight and bend at the waist to drop the ball with no knee bend. Simple as that.

    No Player ever had the idea to bend the knees with the old rule because you get closer to the ground. Now all of a sudden Bryson wants to do so.



    Serious question: I have seen an instructional video about the new rules in 2019. For an explanation about the new dropping rule someone dropped accidentally from shoulder height. He was allowed to pick up the ball and drop again from knee height. No penalty.

    Isn`t it allowed to drop from above knee height?
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