Apex cf16 to Apex 2019 irons - Loft jacking continuing??

golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭
edited Mar 28, 2019 11:24am in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment #1
5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.



The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.



See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.



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Post edited by HipCheck on
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Comments

  • rbj69rbj69 Members Posts: 699 ✭✭
    So that is why Xander won,lol
    Taylormade M16 with Tensei Orange shaft
    Taylormade 3 wd with tensei orange shaft
    Callaway Rogue 3hybrid with aldila synergy shaft
    4-pw Srixon Z785/Zforged combo with px lz shafts
    Cleveland 50 rtx4 wedge
    Cleveland 56 rtx4 wedge
    Evnroll 1.2 Blacked out
    Cleveland Huntington Soft 11 CS blacked out
    Balls 19'Srixon Zstar xv and Zstar and others
  • KC13KC13 31st StateMembers Posts: 374 ✭✭
    I too was was a little turned off by the loft jacking. However, I am a low spin player and weakening the lofts a degree or two increased spin for me.



    I told the rep, Hitting a 7 iron with an over 200 yard roll out is NOT ideal for me. I then hit a weak 7 iron and was carrying 175-185 with much more spin control on the greens. It would land and spin/check up on me.



    Just a little perspective if it helps.



    - KC
    M5
    V Steel
    2i "Hitogami"
    MP-25s
    Raw SM7s
    Terryllium
    Pro V1

  • MeanmachinemoeMeanmachinemoe Members Posts: 1,332 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 11:25am #4
    There's more to it than simply loft jacking. Many have accused OEM's of simply taking a lower lofted iron and putting a different number on it, i.e. 6i with a 7 on it. But, that's not the case. Not only are the lengths of the irons different but the MOI and center of gravity has been altered to achieve optimum spin, forgiveness and trajectory. Are we hitting them longer? Yes, but it's not all due to lofts being stronger. The thing that bugs me the most is what it does to the tops and bottoms of bags. These days, buying irons with modern tech requires a change in wedges and woods. For me, it may cause me to keep my irons longer to minimize cost.
    Taylormade 2017 M1 460 10.5* Fujikura Pro XLR8 56
    Titleist 818 H2 17* Tensei Blue 70
    Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei Blue 70
    Ping G400 4-UW AWT 2.0
    Ping Glide 2.0 54 WS AWT 2.0
    Ping Glide 2.0 58 WS AWT 2.0
    Odyssey O-Works Black 2W

  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,243 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 11:34am #5
    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!!



    Solution #2....buy the pro version.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • ago33ago33 Members Posts: 2,156 ✭✭
    watch txg's youtube video on loft jacking. They tested the ping i500 power spec, regular and retro spec.



    the "jacked" irons were optimal. They produced higher ball speed at the same launch angle. They produced a higher landing angle with minimal difference in spin.



    its hard for you to detremine without testing
    Cobra F9 Speedback 9.................................Tensei Pro Orange 70 TX
    TC Callaway X Hot 3 Deep 14.5...................Rombax P95 X
    Taylormade GAPR Mid 3..............................Recoil Utility 110F5
    Mizuno MP-18 FliHi 4,5................................AMT TI X100
    Mizuno MP-25 6-PW....................................AMT TI X100
    Callaway MD Forged 50, 56.........................AMT TI S400
    TI Taylormade Hi Toe 60.09..........................AMT TI S400
    Scotty Cameron 5.5M...................................Grip Master
  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members Posts: 5,950 ✭✭
    I wasn’t a fan of loft jacking at first, but not because it’s fake distance. The problem I had was that irons 2 degrees stronger threw off the gapping from irons to wedges. It could also throw off the gapping between irons and hybrids depending on your bag. Now that the jacking has reached a full 4/3 degrees stronger across the board, it’s easier to blend the irons into the bag. Who gives af what number is on the bottom.
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭
    ago33 wrote:




    its hard for you to detremine without testing




    The numbers already tell a convincing story without me testing. My current Gap Wedge is 51 degree. Tell me it will provide reasonable distance gap with the Apex 43 degree PW! I would likely need gap wedge NO 2 or to strength lofts of all my 3 wedges.



    I will probably still test the new Apex 19 irons though , considering how excellent the set my cf 16 has been.
  • JoeJoeJoeUrBoatJoeJoeJoeUrBoat Members Posts: 717 ✭✭
    Jacked lofts ruin lives.
    I sold all my clubs...
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭
    rbj69 wrote:


    So that is why Xander won,lol




    Pure luck with the two chip-ins. I have never seen a pro chunks the driver 200 yards side way to a fairway bunker ...
  • rbj69rbj69 Members Posts: 699 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 12:11pm #11
    rbj69 wrote:


    So that is why Xander won,lol




    Pure luck with the two chip-ins. I have never seen a pro chunks the driver 200 yards side way to a fairway bunker ...
    That was funny as hek and yes that chip in gave him momentum to win for sure but **** that 3 wood on the final hole was not luck,he slayed that course
    Taylormade M16 with Tensei Orange shaft
    Taylormade 3 wd with tensei orange shaft
    Callaway Rogue 3hybrid with aldila synergy shaft
    4-pw Srixon Z785/Zforged combo with px lz shafts
    Cleveland 50 rtx4 wedge
    Cleveland 56 rtx4 wedge
    Evnroll 1.2 Blacked out
    Cleveland Huntington Soft 11 CS blacked out
    Balls 19'Srixon Zstar xv and Zstar and others
  • CaseyDanCaseyDan Members Posts: 826 ✭✭
    I just placed my order today for the Apex 19’s. Tested them last Friday and really liked them but didn’t order that day because my ego/hard headedness wouldn’t let me order 5-GW as I’ve always played 4-PW the 52/58.



    Had a long discussion with my golf ego this weekend. Left my ego at home this morning and placed my order. Going to bend the GW to 47 and stick with my trusty 52/58.



    Everything in our lives change - my guess is that no one on this forum took a horse and buggy to work today.



    2016 TaylorMade M2 w/ Ventus 6s
    Callaway Epic Flash w/ AD-DI
    Titleist H1 816 w/ Diamana Blueboard
    Callaway Apex Pro 4-PW
    Titleist SM7 Raw 52
    TaylorMade 60* Hi-Toe
    TaylorMade Spider X
  • gator022gator022 Members Posts: 167 ✭✭
    For most of us, we'd just be best to buy 5-GW, then go 52, 56, 60 at the bottom of the bag. Throw a hybrid in that's 18-20*, a 3 wood, and driver and call it a day.
  • KmacKmac Members Posts: 719 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 12:47pm #14
    LOL zero. *****. given. WHO CARES!
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,227 ✭✭
    Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w, HW
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS, 58
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,227 ✭✭


    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!!



    Solution #2....buy the pro version.


    #4 keep your current clubs

    #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.

    #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w, HW
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS, 58
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • CAThompsonGolfCAThompsonGolf Future Senior PGA Pro Members Posts: 399 ✭✭
    How jacked up are the lofts on the ‘19 Apex Pro?
    KING LTD PRO HZRDUS 6.5
    Callaway GBB 3 wood 757 X flex
    Tour Edge CB Pro U Kuro Kage 90 X
    PING S55 3-PW TI DG X100 PURE'D
    Titleist Vokey SM4 52 56 60 DG X100 PURE'D
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2 34"
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,243 ✭✭
    edited Jan 7, 2019 7:22pm #18
    FIGHT THE POWER!! SAVE TRADITIONALLY LOFTED IRONS!!!



    God forbid my buddy is going to hit his “8 iron” as far as my 34* 7 iron! My fragile ego will NOT stand for that!! ; )
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky Members Posts: 1,263 ✭✭
    As mentioned it’s more thank just jacking lofts. I don’t care how it changes my bag as I’ll adjust what I need on either end.



    My beef is the avg consumer who is fooled by it all.
  • vanillafunk616vanillafunk616 Members Posts: 552 ✭✭
    They need to go ahead and write pw on their 3 iron and be done with it. That's the end game.
  • CircleC29CircleC29 Members Posts: 831 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:
    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
    #4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.




    Im going with option #3
    Contents of bag subject to change.
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,227 ✭✭
    CircleC29 wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:
    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
    #4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.




    Im going with option #3




    Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all. Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w, HW
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS, 58
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • GSDriverGSDriver Members Posts: 608 ✭✭
    Most all OEMs have loft jacked in the last 5 years.



    Personally, I don't care, as doesn't matter what club I hit, as long as goes where I expect, that's what matters.



    Can always go combo set or Pros, or bend if makes you feel better.



    I still contend that the OEMs engineer their clubs to perform and based on design criteria may adjust lofts to provide desired ball flight characteristics.
    Epic Speeder 661
    Rogue 4 Wood Evenflow 75 Blue
    Epic Hybrids 3/4/5
    Apex Pro 6-P Recoil 110 F4
    MD Slate Forged 52
    PM Grind 56/60
    Odyssey 7S
    All grips except putter are Iomic Sticky 2.3
  • carrier streetcarrier street Members Posts: 1,185 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:



    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!!



    Solution #2....buy the pro version.


    #4 keep your current clubs

    #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.

    #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.




    I don't know man. My MP-18s have a 46 degree PW.
    M3
    910 FD
    P790 UDI 2 iron
    3-PW MP18 MB
    Vokey 54S and 60L
    Scotty TEI3 Newport
  • CircleC29CircleC29 Members Posts: 831 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:
    CircleC29 wrote:
    dlygrisse wrote:
    Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
    #4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.
    Im going with option #3
    Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all. Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.




    I just looked at it as the option to do nothing lol
    Contents of bag subject to change.
  • jas904jas904 Members Posts: 1,385 ✭✭
    That's it enough is enough. I am going with Hogan Apex. I'll be rocking my 50* PW!
    TaylorMade M4 8.5, HZRDUS Yellow 65
    TaylorMade M3 15, HZRDUS Black 75
    Callaway XR Pro 20, Project X LZ
    Srixon Z765 4-PW, Steelfiber 110
    Titleist SM6 50F Steelfiber 110, SM7 56S Steelfiber 110, SM7 60D Steelfiber 110
    Ping Ketsch Armlock
  • jjfcpajjfcpa Driver - Tour Edge EXS 10.5 Omaha, NEMembers Posts: 409 ✭✭


    5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

    PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.



    The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.



    See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.







    You do realize that those are standard lofts but you can custom order and specify weaker or stronger lofts. All this talk about loft jacking has me wondering if no one has every custom ordered clubs besides me?
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭
    dlygrisse wrote:


    Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.




    You are welcome image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> It is only 7 days into the year but we have seen multiple increasing loft jacking instances in M6 (not surprising) and now Apex. Personally I am very disappointed in seeing this happen for Apex because Apex is supposed to be a PLAYER iron. **** it.
  • roadtrippin4550roadtrippin4550 Members Posts: 207 ✭✭


    5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

    PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.



    The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.



    See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.







    At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.
    WITB

    Driver: Titleist TS3 9.5 (C1) - Fujikura Atmos Tour Spec Black 7X
    3 Wood: Callaway X2 Hot Pro 15* - UST VTS Black 8x
    Hybrid: Adams Pro Mini 20* - Aerotech SteelFiber 110X
    Irons: Mizuno MP-15 - Nippon Modus Tour 130X
    Wedge: Cleveland RTX-4 50* Mid - KBS $-Taper 130X
    Wedge: Cleveland RTX-4 56* Mid - KBS $-Taper 130X
    Wedge: Cleveland RTX-4 60* Low - KBS $-Taper 130X
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport Beach 1.5
  • golfer55082golfer55082 Members Posts: 296 ✭✭



    5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

    PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.



    The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.



    See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.







    At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.




    Except that it is 10 yards longer than a traditionally-lofted 7 iron. Same for your PW. You suddenly have a 25 yards gap between the new PW and your 51-degree gap wedge. Then what you do?
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,227 ✭✭
    I used to have an old set of Spalding irons, had to be from the 1940's or 50's, early matched set....2-9 iron. the 9 iron was around 52 degrees I think. (who knows if it was at original specs)



    The original matched sets were 1,2,3,4 wood. 1-9 iron and putter. 14 clubs.



    Loft jacking started many years ago, it's just come to the point, with modern tech that it has to quit at some point.



    It seems were are coming full circle, instead of buying a matched set we will soon be buying the entire set 1 club at a time like hickories. Based on loft or carry yardage.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w, HW
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS, 58
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
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