Playing with THAT guy

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,721 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:

    dpb5031 wrote:

    killer21 wrote:


    Every single dad that has a daughter playing golf under the age of 10 thinks their daughter is going to play on the LPGA. Their was a couple of times I had to give my head a shake and just have patience and let her have fun and try hard not to be that guy.




    And the crazy thing is, how desirable is the LPGA lifestyle anyway? I would argue that relative to the very low odds of a player becoming a top 50 in the world pro, that it's not a very wise pursuit for most.



    If you consider travel, caddy, and other expenses, only those inside the top 75 are making a legitimately good living. Even if a player has a good year there's no guarantee that its sustainable, and a drop off in performance can leave you barely making ends meet. Very different than the men where one win and you're set for a good long time.



    Sure, the top players get lucrative endorsement deals, but again, that's limited to the elites who are deemed marketable for things beyond their golf.




    I think it may be better for players today but even guys who made it on the PGA tour and Won have a hard time making ends meet. I have met a lot former PGA pro's who either got a job in Sales or actually teach now for a living.



    For a person to make it on a tour you have got to have good PR and negotiation skills to make a decent living. Of course if you win enough life is good but that goes without saying. The most money in golf has always been off the course not on the course.




    Only a very very small percentage of players make more money off the course than on it. Most of their income is made on course
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    darter79 wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    I notice you write, "I hate playing with that parent."



    Is it a team event, father / daughter? Do you hate observing her play with the children of those parents? Do you caddy and consider yourself part of her "team" like Spieth and Greller?



    Not judging, just curious.




    Nope I'm still here. Most of my experiences come from events where its stroke play events. It has nothing to do with the children of the adults I am referring to. Yes I am the caddy for my daughter until she fires me which I hope is soon. Do I consider myself part of her team? Any Caddy player is a team from my standpoint would you consider Spieth and Greller a team?, but Its never my win or loss its hers. I'm there to watch have fun and support her. But I think you might be missing the point. My daughter is average at best for her age but I'm talking about the guy who has a reason for every mistake his kid makes. Blocks one in the tree. The shaft might be cracked. Missed the putt oh I forgot to put "winter" balls into play. But she shot 31 yesterday. Whatever it is. Just go out there support and love watching your kid play. She not Lexi Thompson and probably never will be.




    I gotcha.



    Honestly, I was just asking, not assuming anything. I've never had a problem with the "we's" from the tour pros. Personally (disclaimer my degree is in English) I think the pronouns reflect how we think about it and I do think it's significant. I do consider some of what a player / caddie experience to be a team effort, but the player always owns the shot. The Spieth/Greller "we" thing kind of came to a head when Greller pushed for moving up like Norman after the rinse in 2016 at AN on the 12th hole. Spieth should have owned the decision and told Greller to hush while he hit from the tee again. But, hindsight is always 20/20.



    I have a ton of respect for parents who go out and caddie for their kids, I give you props for doing it. It's a big time commitment and wouldn't be easy for a lot of parents.



    My 2 cents, worth less than that actually.... I think the shrinking middle class has put a ton of pressure onto parents. From school conferences, to extra curricular including sports and arts, it seems just about everything about parenting in the 21st century is under more perceived pressure than 20 or 30 years ago. Not that there's any excuse for being "that guy" and 100% agree that your more likely to get struck by lightening multiple times while cashing a winning powerball ticket than make it as a pro athlete. Sadly, what a lot of parents are doing is turning something that could be a positive form of lifelong recreation and turning it into a job that a kid will resent forever. Good on you for being aware and not behaving like the bad ones.
  • md1mmd1m Members Posts: 791 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:

    darter79 wrote:

    Matt J wrote:


    I notice you write, "I hate playing with that parent."



    Is it a team event, father / daughter? Do you hate observing her play with the children of those parents? Do you caddy and consider yourself part of her "team" like Spieth and Greller?



    Not judging, just curious.




    Nope I'm still here. Most of my experiences come from events where its stroke play events. It has nothing to do with the children of the adults I am referring to. Yes I am the caddy for my daughter until she fires me which I hope is soon. Do I consider myself part of her team? Any Caddy player is a team from my standpoint would you consider Spieth and Greller a team?, but Its never my win or loss its hers. I'm there to watch have fun and support her. But I think you might be missing the point. My daughter is average at best for her age but I'm talking about the guy who has a reason for every mistake his kid makes. Blocks one in the tree. The shaft might be cracked. Missed the putt oh I forgot to put "winter" balls into play. But she shot 31 yesterday. Whatever it is. Just go out there support and love watching your kid play. She not Lexi Thompson and probably never will be.




    I gotcha.



    Honestly, I was just asking, not assuming anything. I've never had a problem with the "we's" from the tour pros. Personally (disclaimer my degree is in English) I think the pronouns reflect how we think about it and I do think it's significant. I do consider some of what a player / caddie experience to be a team effort, but the player always owns the shot. The Spieth/Greller "we" thing kind of came to a head when Greller pushed for moving up like Norman after the rinse in 2016 at AN on the 12th hole. Spieth should have owned the decision and told Greller to hush while he hit from the tee again. But, hindsight is always 20/20.



    I have a ton of respect for parents who go out and caddie for their kids, I give you props for doing it. It's a big time commitment and wouldn't be easy for a lot of parents.



    My 2 cents, worth less than that actually.... I think the shrinking middle class has put a ton of pressure onto parents. From school conferences, to extra curricular including sports and arts, it seems just about everything about parenting in the 21st century is under more perceived pressure than 20 or 30 years ago. Not that there's any excuse for being "that guy" and 100% agree that your more likely to get struck by lightening multiple times while cashing a winning powerball ticket than make it as a pro athlete. Sadly, what a lot of parents are doing is turning something that could be a positive form of lifelong recreation and turning it into a job that a kid will resent forever. Good on you for being aware and not behaving like the bad ones.




    My 8 year old and I are definitely a team. My son is a very good golfer (no thoughts of tour) but is the spaciest kid you could meet (they want him to skip 2 grades but he will misplace a club every hole, can't tell you what he had for lunch an hour later, etc). Have never yelled at him while playing, and when we play for practice or at an event it's a blast and we go do something fun afterwards no matter how he finished.



    So both of use say "we" because we're a team, but I'm not "that guy". For some reason the dads seem to be harder on the girls. See them berating these little girls all the time about swing positions and about hitting a putt too hard or too soft. If that describes you then you need to lighten up. My son asks why some dads are so mean to their kids. I hope to play golf with mine as long as he'll let me.
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  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,230 ✭✭


    ... Stall next to me was a father and daughter. I was appalled at how he spoke to her.....actually felt sorry for the girl. Father was berating her about positions in her golf swing. ...




    A couple of years ago I volunteered as a caddie at a LPGA developmental tour event. One of the young women in our threesome had a permanent caddie that was a swing coach of sorts - he acted like the father above. Not just harsh remarks, but loud enough the other players and caddies could hear. And it wasn't like the two were working on one shortcoming in her game - every other shot, he had harsh words.



    She missed the cut by three shots; I wonder how she would have done if CaddieMan had just kept his mouth shut.



    I hope I'm not getting off track, but here are some comparisons on different neighborhoods of pro golf.



    Life on an LPGA minor tour is really sparse.Host town families often provide room and meals for the women players to help them save on expenses.



    Purses for events range from $100,000 to $225,000. Winners get from 15-17% of total purse, a rough range of from $15,000 to $33,750. A TIE:58th might bring $729.



    On the PGA Tour, a minor tournament such as the Sanderson Farms Championship has a $4.4 million purse, with $792K for the winner. A TIE:54th would bring $9,944.
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  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 72 ✭✭


    Was at the range over the weekend. Stall next to me was a father and daughter. I was appalled at how he spoke to her.....actually felt sorry for the girl. Father was berating her about positions in her golf swing. He would grab club from her hands when she didn't pause in right position. He would then start swinging club. Girl just stared off down the range. Went on for about 40 minutes. Father eventually stormed off! Girl looked over to and apologized. I told her there was no need forl an apology on her part. Girl then started to hit balls with a smile on her face. Just kills me inside when I see a parent treating a kid this way.




    We have about 5 parent/child combos like this at our club. The parent will pick up a ball and put in on the mat. The kid hits the shot. Then the parent scold them for the next 5 minutes. Rinse repeat for about 2 hours.

    It really makes my heart break for that child.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,067 ✭✭



    Was at the range over the weekend. Stall next to me was a father and daughter. I was appalled at how he spoke to her.....actually felt sorry for the girl. Father was berating her about positions in her golf swing. He would grab club from her hands when she didn't pause in right position. He would then start swinging club. Girl just stared off down the range. Went on for about 40 minutes. Father eventually stormed off! Girl looked over to and apologized. I told her there was no need forl an apology on her part. Girl then started to hit balls with a smile on her face. Just kills me inside when I see a parent treating a kid this way.




    We have about 5 parent/child combos like this at our club. The parent will pick up a ball and put in on the mat. The kid hits the shot. Then the parent scold them for the next 5 minutes. Rinse repeat for about 2 hours.

    It really makes my heart break for that child.




    Welcome to the Jr. forums.
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 72 ✭✭




    Was at the range over the weekend. Stall next to me was a father and daughter. I was appalled at how he spoke to her.....actually felt sorry for the girl. Father was berating her about positions in her golf swing. He would grab club from her hands when she didn't pause in right position. He would then start swinging club. Girl just stared off down the range. Went on for about 40 minutes. Father eventually stormed off! Girl looked over to and apologized. I told her there was no need forl an apology on her part. Girl then started to hit balls with a smile on her face. Just kills me inside when I see a parent treating a kid this way.




    We have about 5 parent/child combos like this at our club. The parent will pick up a ball and put in on the mat. The kid hits the shot. Then the parent scold them for the next 5 minutes. Rinse repeat for about 2 hours.

    It really makes my heart break for that child.




    Welcome to the Jr. forums.




    I see. I see. Well it's different than the Golf Sim forum I've been on for almost a year. :-)



    My son in 10th grade now. Came home 1st day of practice freshman year and was like half of the kids cheat. I couldn't believe it then I was reading horror stories.



    First tournament that year he said a kid (in his group) was shaving strokes to make a roster spot. The kid finished one stroke ahead of him. He cried for two days. Told him next time you need to call him out or just be ready to cry.
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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Members Posts: 5,165 ✭✭
    Ya know...not for anything, but if your heart's going to break for a child there's a lot worse to worry about than overbearing fathers at the driving range...lol 😯! True, many parents of junior athletes are over-the-top, but let's keep it in perspective...plenty of kids out there in the US and elsewhere have much more challenging lives than kids who have to deal with overbearing parents at the country club.
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  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 72 ✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:


    Ya know...not for anything, but if your heart's going to break for a child there's a lot worse to worry about than overbearing fathers at the driving range...lol ��! True, many parents of junior athletes are over-the-top, but let's keep it in perspective...plenty of kids out there in the US and elsewhere have much more challenging lives than kids who have to deal with overbearing parents at the country club.




    Great counter argument! There is a difference (razor thin) between being "over the top" "overbearing" and verbal abusive to your child on a range. So the kid has probably he/she could want. I guess its ok to be a verbal punching bag.
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  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭

    dpb5031 wrote:


    Ya know...not for anything, but if your heart's going to break for a child there's a lot worse to worry about than overbearing fathers at the driving range...lol ��! True, many parents of junior athletes are over-the-top, but let's keep it in perspective...plenty of kids out there in the US and elsewhere have much more challenging lives than kids who have to deal with overbearing parents at the country club.




    Great counter argument! There is a difference (razor thin) between being "over the top" "overbearing" and verbal abusive to your child on a range. So the kid has probably he/she could want. I guess its ok to be a verbal punching bag.




    I'd rather live with a loving family that struggles to put food on the table than a verbally abusive parent.



    There are certainly a lot of kids in horrible situations all over the world, but in my opinion that doesn't make a guy yelling at a kid about their golf swing any better.
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