CPM range across graphite set

cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5'sMembers Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
edited Jan 11, 2019 11:22pm in WRX Club Techs #1
So I can grab some extra matrix hybrid shafts that cpm out at 285. Love this shaft in my 4 & 5h but want to know if I can build out 6-pw



Matrix info says you can w aggressive tip trimming up to three inches ...



Where should the cpm numbers fall for the 6, 7, 8, 9 and PW? Ballpark numbers are fine



The s55 PW I am using now - steelfiber 125s - is at 326cpm at 36.5". Love this feel fwiw. Heavy swing weight.



I can check specs on my 5h tomorrow if that helps.



Generally, I like flexes btw S and X.



Just want to understand the process before moving thru the mechanics w my fitter
Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
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Comments

  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 12:31am #2
    If you go to a fitter that can pull enough inventory they can match the whole set off that club. Supposedly Steelfibers are very tight to spec, but I would like to find out. I own a bunch of their shafts but most of them were soft stepped in their initial builds. I'd like to build a progressive set of 95's, 110's, and 125's.



    I play everything D4 to D6 right now other than driver that's even heavier.



    The EI profiles are interesting on them as they don't lose a lot of stiffness as you drop weight.



    BTW, it sounds like you're considering parallel through the set and will need to bore out any Taper Tip heads to make that work.



    You can pretty much fit make a curve between your 5H and the PW if the swingweight in consistent.



  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,121 ✭✭
    Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.



    Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set. If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.
  • KRW59KRW59 Hoarder Members Posts: 856 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 11:20am #4
    Back in the mid-late 1990's I built a set of clubs with ascending CPM slope ,

    using graphite shafts. This was back when I was a X-flex player....



    Driver CPM 271 / 3 wd CPM 281 / 1 iron to Pw 301 to 331 CPM / 55° SW 331

    Using .370" parallel tip Apache Pm-40i graphite shafts ( the KJ Choi models )

    I weight sorted and tipped the shafts to 3 cpms from each iron to the next..

    Started with 1 iron at 301 CPM , 2 iron 304 CPM ,etc, etc. PW 331 CPM....

    Alot of small cut then measure , involved , not just the standard tip .5"

    extra and move on to the next club. Also shaft orientation in the clamp

    would make a difference on the CPM reading. If you have the time..do it..



    Honestly what I do now , the progressive swing weight , is easier..
    Cobra King F9 10.5* / Fuji Speeder Evo IV  569-SR
    TEE EX10 Beta 16.5* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 5-SR
    TEE EX10 19* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 6-S
    TEE EX9 22* / Attas 4U 7-S.
    TEE EX9 25* / Attas 4U 7-X
    I have added about 10 grams of weight to all the fwy / hybrid
    shafts , using Sensicore inserts wrapped with lead tape.

    Cobra Forged Tec Black / 28* 6 iron thru 49.5* GW / 4.5* gapping
    Recoil 780 Es Smac wrap F3 / GW shaft internally weighted to 95 grams

    King Black Wedges / 54* versatile/ Recoil 95 F3 shaft weighted to 110 grams
    58* versatile / Recoil 110 F4 shaft weighted to 125 grams ( heat shrink tube )

    Piretti Savona 2 Elite《Murdered》or 1/1 GSS High Toe Potenza II

    Flask - Crown Black
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:


    Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.



    Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set. If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.




    This makes the most sense to me, too. If you can't get the PW stiff enough for your taste the rest is moot.



    I am certainly no master club builder, but I did recently use a friends frequency analyzer. Perhaps a little of what I learned will help you understand. Also, maybe some of the guru's in here will chime in.



    Basically, you clamp the shaft (how tight the clamp is and the orientation will change the readings, grip or no grip will change the readings) add a weight or the dry fitted club head (how much weight will change the readings) then you flex it and let it oscillate and the frequency analyzer measures the vibration. Here's a good YouTube of a guy doing it....







    So, basically, your fitter is going to check all of the shafts before tip trimming them and then tip and butt cut them to try and get a "perfect curve" of deviation between your clubs. There's a little art and science to the whole thing, because as you see there are a lot of variables i.e. a little different pressure out of the clamp, a little different weight, or a different orientation of the shaft.



    Good luck!
  • KRW59KRW59 Hoarder Members Posts: 856 ✭✭
    edited Jan 12, 2019 1:36pm #6
    KRW59 wrote:


    Back in the mid-late 1990's I built a set of clubs with ascending CPM slope ,

    using graphite shafts. This was back when I was a X-flex player....



    Driver CPM 271 / 3 wd CPM 281 / 1 iron to Pw 301 to 331 CPM / 55° SW 331

    Using .370" parallel tip Apache Pm-40i graphite shafts ( the KJ Choi models )

    I weight sorted and tipped the shafts to 3 cpms from each iron to the next..

    Started with 1 iron at 301 CPM , 2 iron 304 CPM ,etc, etc. PW 331 CPM....

    Alot of small cut then measure , involved , not just the standard tip .5"

    extra and move on to the next club. Also shaft orientation in the clamp

    would make a difference on the CPM reading. If you have the time..do it..



    Honestly what I do now , the progressive swing weight , is easier..

    Matt J wrote:

    Stuart G. wrote:


    Sorry, not sure I can help much other than to say that numbers from a different shaft model with a different profile (i.e. the Steelfibers) wont help you at all with the matrix shafts.



    Also, if you only have about 3" of tipping to work with, that's doesn't give you a whole lot of room to work with for a 6-PW set. If it were me I'd probably first try max tipping on the PW to see if it was going to be enough for that hybrid shaft to handle the heaviest head.




    This makes the most sense to me, too. If you can't get the PW stiff enough for your taste the rest is moot.



    I am certainly no master club builder, but I did recently use a friends frequency analyzer. Perhaps a little of what I learned will help you understand. Also, maybe some of the guru's in here will chime in.



    Basically, you clamp the shaft (how tight the clamp is and the orientation will change the readings, grip or no grip will change the readings) add a weight or the dry fitted club head (how much weight will change the readings) then you flex it and let it oscillate and the frequency analyzer measures the vibration. Here's a good YouTube of a guy doing it....







    So, basically, your fitter is going to check all of the shafts before tip trimming them and then tip and butt cut them to try and get a "perfect curve" of deviation between your clubs. There's a little art and science to the whole thing, because as you see there are a lot of variables i.e. a little different pressure out of the clamp, a little different weight, or a different orientation of the shaft.



    Good luck!




    I used each individual head dry fit , and shaft clamped on butt at it's final

    play length to get my CPM readings. Alot of measure , trim , remeasure involved



    It was more an exercise in building each individual iron , one at a time ,to a target CPM and swingweight, than it was building a "set of irons ".....
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Cobra King F9 10.5* / Fuji Speeder Evo IV  569-SR
    TEE EX10 Beta 16.5* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 5-SR
    TEE EX10 19* / Fuji Platinum Speeder 6-S
    TEE EX9 22* / Attas 4U 7-S.
    TEE EX9 25* / Attas 4U 7-X
    I have added about 10 grams of weight to all the fwy / hybrid
    shafts , using Sensicore inserts wrapped with lead tape.

    Cobra Forged Tec Black / 28* 6 iron thru 49.5* GW / 4.5* gapping
    Recoil 780 Es Smac wrap F3 / GW shaft internally weighted to 95 grams

    King Black Wedges / 54* versatile/ Recoil 95 F3 shaft weighted to 110 grams
    58* versatile / Recoil 110 F4 shaft weighted to 125 grams ( heat shrink tube )

    Piretti Savona 2 Elite《Murdered》or 1/1 GSS High Toe Potenza II

    Flask - Crown Black
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
    Sounds doable
    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
    Matt J wrote:


    If you go to a fitter that can pull enough inventory they can match the whole set off that club. Supposedly Steelfibers are very tight to spec, but I would like to find out. I own a bunch of their shafts but most of them were soft stepped in their initial builds. I'd like to build a progressive set of 95's, 110's, and 125's.



    I play everything D4 to D6 right now other than driver that's even heavier.



    The EI profiles are interesting on them as they don't lose a lot of stiffness as you drop weight.



    BTW, it sounds like you're considering parallel through the set and will need to bore out any Taper Tip heads to make that work.



    You can pretty much fit make a curve between your 5H and the PW if the swingweight in consistent.




    I'm in the middle of building blended weight s55 irons w steelfibers myself



    I too am also a heavy swing weight guy
    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
    Is there not a generic chart for each iron cpm for length? Similar to how driver at 45" is stiff at 260cpm ....
    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
    I was thinking



    If 5 is 285 .. hybrid or iron



    Then simply something like below could work? I get not following matrix on line trim guidelines but lots of small tip cuts to space out properly



    6 = 292

    7 = 299

    8 = 306

    9 = 313

    P = 320



    Is a space of 7 normal enough to work for graphite? I know it's 4 or 5 for steel ...



    I know before I left we played around w my 97g hb6 project x hybrid shaft in a 7i and it was way up at 324 ...



    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • Matt JMatt J Members Posts: 8,721 ✭✭
    I don't know that the freq. of your hybrid matters for your irons because the COG and tech is so different.



    I, too, play a 5 at 27 degrees and it is more like an X so it doesn't fly too high.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Members Posts: 11,857 ✭✭
    Anyone have any reference grids and/or scales for this .. drivers or irons ??



    Bueller?



    I have the shafts inbound
    Ping G400 LST 11* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Oban Kiyoshi White 65s
    Ping G25 7w 20* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Ping G25 4h 23* Diamana White 92s
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* Mitsu KK 80s
    Ping s55 6-PW Fujikura mci 100s
    Vokey sm2 50* 54* 59* 64* DG s400 Onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
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